N54Tech.com - International Turbo Racing Discussion
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Wraith07 Wraith07 is offline
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Default 06-01-2015, 07:24 AM

Well I ran some e40 in it this weekend, thing destroyed the tires. Still had heatsoak though. I guess some body work, ******** and a charge pipe are coming next. Also when I did wot from slower speeds it sounded like it was Sputtering and then lost all power, but no lights went off.
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Milan Milan is offline
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Default 06-01-2015, 08:21 AM

For starters make sure all the usual suspects are in check: vacuum lines, plugs, coils, injectors, boost control solenoids (in that order)

Next, I really think a meth kit will solve all your inconsistency issues, at least it did for me. E85 will only get you partly there because even though the E85 is cooling when it combusts, the IATs are still high from the little hair dryer turbos so that causes a timing pull


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Wraith07 Wraith07 is offline
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Default 06-01-2015, 08:44 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Milan
For starters make sure all the usual suspects are in check: vacuum lines, plugs, coils, injectors, boost control solenoids (in that order)
Vacuum lines, plugs, coils, injectors, those are all new. Havn't seen any codes for the boost solenoids in the past but I'll check tomorrow.

I think I will have to go meth, the power was just too fun especially at higher speeds. And meth will make my hate for inconsistency satisfied. The trunk is already taken apart, so why not I suppose.

What things do meth/ethanol/higher boost degrade unusually fast/damage?

Also the pump I got it from said its up to 70% or 85% ethanol, so how do I calculate the ethanol percentages for the gallons I'm putting in. Are they still counted as 100% * 6 Gallons or am I counting it as 70% * 6 Gallons/17.3 Gallons.

Last edited by Wraith07; 06-01-2015 at 08:50 AM..
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MDORPHN MDORPHN is offline
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Default 06-01-2015, 08:59 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Milan
Next, I really think a meth kit will solve all your inconsistency issues, at least it did for me. E85 will only get you partly there because even though the E85 is cooling when it combusts, the IATs are still high from the little hair dryer turbos so that causes a timing pull
E85 certainly results in cooler combustion, but it also reduces the charge temp, even in direct injection applications.

See: http://papers.sae.org/2009-01-1490/

"Direct injection of E85 (a commercially available blend of ~85% ethanol and ~15% gasoline) is extremely effective in suppressing knock, due to ethanol's high inherent octane and its high heat of vaporization, which results in substantial cooling of the charge."

And another SAE paper: http://papers.sae.org/2012-01-1275/


Neil

Last edited by MDORPHN; 06-01-2015 at 11:17 AM..
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LostMarine LostMarine is offline
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Default 06-01-2015, 11:19 AM

^ not entirely true. Its injected at the last moment so the charge cooling is minimal. Combustion and I believe EGT temps are considerably lower.

OPs best bet, yet again, is methanol injection. Sturdy kit, once setup is "set and forget". Sure you have to fill the tank, but you have to fill the fuel tank too, so take a look when your pumping, problem solved

It will allow higher timing which is more power. It will cool the charge, allowing more power. It will reduce IAT's as far down as anything less than nitrous can do. That in turn negates as much as possible the effect of weather. Key words as much as possible
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Default 06-01-2015, 06:14 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by MDORPHN
E85 certainly results in cooler combustion, but it also reduces the charge temp, even in direct injection applications.

See: http://papers.sae.org/2009-01-1490/

"Direct injection of E85 (a commercially available blend of ~85% ethanol and ~15% gasoline) is extremely effective in suppressing knock, due to ethanol's high inherent octane and its high heat of vaporization, which results in substantial cooling of the charge."

And another SAE paper: http://papers.sae.org/2012-01-1275/


Neil
I'm aware of this, but the IAT sensor does not know what fuel you are running.

The tune is set up so the higher the IATs, the more timing it pulls. So unless the E85 tune decreases IAT sensitivity, the only benefit you are receiving from the E85 is octane.


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cebrailbakan cebrailbakan is offline
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Default 06-02-2015, 06:40 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by CHECKERED
Had a similar issue, it was fixed by getting Methanol/Water injection, the equivalent to running 118 octane all the time
so hot weather or low barometric pressure become irrelevant...

What mods are on your car? And what tune/map do you use?
What ?? You mean by using methanol you're running 118 octane all the time ? What is your compression rate bro ? Does that mean Putting straight 118 octane gas is the same thing to use methanol ?
Thx in advance.


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Default 06-02-2015, 08:12 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by cebrailbakan
What ?? You mean by using methanol you're running 118 octane all the time ? What is your compression rate bro ? Does that mean Putting straight 118 octane gas is the same thing to use methanol ?
Thx in advance.
meth injection is said to have a wide range of octane as low as 104 and as high as 118 due to the nature of the water being injected, if water can have an octane rating it would be 800

pure methanol has an octane rating of 99, not accounting for the cooling effect of burning methanol, so probably round 110


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(#34)
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cebrailbakan cebrailbakan is offline
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Default 06-02-2015, 09:03 AM

So the question is , if I put straight 110 octane gas to the regular tank won't it be overoctane for the stock compression rate ?


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Default 06-02-2015, 09:19 AM

it is possible to have so much octane that the mixture burns too slow,
but this can be corrected with a very high timing advance (15 degrees)


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(#36)
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Milan Milan is offline
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Default 06-02-2015, 04:27 PM

Different fuel will not help your IATs regardless of octane.


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MDORPHN MDORPHN is offline
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Default 06-02-2015, 04:52 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Milan
I'm aware of this, but the IAT sensor does not know what fuel you are running.

The tune is set up so the higher the IATs, the more timing it pulls. So unless the E85 tune decreases IAT sensitivity, the only benefit you are receiving from the E85 is octane.
Agree that you'd only realize the benefits of running ethanol if the IAT compensation tables were revised so timing wasn't retarded based on the temp readings from the TMAP sensor.

Neil
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Wraith07 Wraith07 is offline
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Default 03-09-2017, 09:23 AM

What kind of ********* do I need to get? I want to reduce spool time/lag, don't really care too much about extra power. And I'd like to save money.
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LessIsMore LessIsMore is offline
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Default 03-09-2017, 11:26 AM

Too much erroneous conflation of IAT, combustion temp, octane, etc. in this thread lol

Wraith07, sounds like for your complaint, meth is the way to go to get the most consistency, since IAT is what is the root of your weather-based fluctuations. (not just temperature; fluctuations in other weather metrics like density, barometric, humidity, etc. will manifest in higher/lower IAT's due to the turbo compression).


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MysticRob MysticRob is offline
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Default 03-09-2017, 01:19 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wraith07
What kind of ********* do I need to get? I want to reduce spool time/lag, don't really care too much about extra power. And I'd like to save money.
Talking about spool time/lag now makes me think you have more serious issues that mods won't help.

I'm a bit surprised it's almost 2 years later on the thread and you're still looking for answers. What changes have you made since then, if any? Have you upgraded the FMIC yet? In 2015 you indicated you're tune only and 93 oct. Does your car have an oil cooler or not?

Have you logged to see whether your 'butt-dyno' feelings are accurate for being weather based, or if it's potentially something more serious that maybe the weather exacerbates (or if butt-dyno is wrong)?


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LessIsMore LessIsMore is offline
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Default 03-09-2017, 02:53 PM

haha, didn't even notice it was that old.

No reason yet to think it's a more serious issue. We all know car feels faster when it's cold.


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Wraith07 Wraith07 is offline
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Default 03-09-2017, 06:51 PM

I quit working in 2015 so I've been in penny saving mode, just started work again
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v8bait v8bait is offline
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Default 03-09-2017, 08:04 PM

Nitrous. Nitrous is the answer.

Nitrous and more boost. ALL of the boost.
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MysticRob MysticRob is offline
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Default 03-09-2017, 09:38 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wraith07
I quit working in 2015 so I've been in penny saving mode, just started work again
Super. I took my dog to the vet to get her teeth cleaned. That helps resolve your supposed issues just as much as your post does, so I'll summarize by saying ice cream has no bones. Good talk. Check, please.

Quote:
Originally Posted by v8bait
Nitrous. Nitrous is the answer.

Nitrous and more boost. ALL of the boost.
Good idea. Listen up OP, this is all of the answers.


2008 535xi E61 Touring Wagon / 110k Miles / Deep Sea Blue Exterior / Natural Brown Leather Interior / MHD Stage 2 91 Octane Tune / xHP Stage 2 Transmission Tune

Last edited by MysticRob; 03-09-2017 at 09:47 PM..
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