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Dmac @ BMS/DMD's Avatar
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Default 07-21-2015, 02:44 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Trickcruiser
Man, I really hope they come through and do the right thing here... My hope would be that they are just trying to align internally (how to fix it) before reaching back out to you.

I am also another potential full build customer so I am watching this very closely.

Please keep us posted.
It's not gonna happen. They're trying to claim it isn't even a hardware issue anymore. Lol. They say the solenoids are the same ones that have always been there and were never replaced. When I search for "6hp19 problems", the first result mentions the solenoids as a failure point.

http://etereman.com/blog/luxury-transmission/here-are-two-problems-common-found-with-the-6hp19-transmission

This would be their responsibility according to their website:
http://www.levelten.com/Bmw_automatic_transmission_p/bmw-g1800-9000s.htm

"With the experience and expertise of our technicians, we also spot common failures and correct them."


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Default 07-21-2015, 03:08 PM

In case this wasn't clear, I offered to have them take my tranny back, put stock parts back in it and refund me. They aren't willing to do that either.


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NecroDMI NecroDMI is offline
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Default 07-21-2015, 06:58 PM

Worst case you buy a used tranny for 1K and call it a day. Sucks.
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Default 07-21-2015, 08:40 PM

Just read through all this. Sorry for your troubles Donnie


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Default 07-21-2015, 08:43 PM

Nobody should be surprised by the outcome of all this.
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Optigrab Optigrab is offline
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Default 07-22-2015, 06:35 AM

Sorry to hear about this mess. There has to be something wrong with the trans if the other members is working fine.

They should just take your trans and replace it with one out of their stock
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Default 07-22-2015, 07:40 AM

So where do you go from here? Sue them or?


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Default 07-22-2015, 08:03 AM

This is really bizarre as my experience was the complete opposite. My stock trans was on its way out with long delays between shifts. When Level 10 installed the trans, I threw 25 psi at her out of the box and the shifts were fine with no delays. You should make a trip to Louisville Donnie and you can see what I mean.

I am curious to see how your car shifts and feels in comparison to mine. That's not cool if Level 10 isn't willing to honor their warranty. Definitely not good business practice as there are a lot of N54s out there needing a trans upgrade.

Come on Level 10 make this right! Donnie drove all the way to Jersey to have this addressed.


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Default 07-22-2015, 03:28 PM

DMAC maybe give IPT transmissions a call before you blow it off, I have spoke with them on the phone and they have done some good work in the subaru community when I had my STI. My buddy lives up there and if I need a good transmission rebuild which I probably will I am thinking of letting them work on it.. Worth a shot maybe..
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nyt nyt is online now
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Default 07-22-2015, 04:41 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dmac @ BMS/DMD
In case this wasn't clear, I offered to have them take my tranny back, put stock parts back in it and refund me. They aren't willing to do that either.
Which Alpina flash are you running? I had some serious issues with the one that was discovered more recently, but the old one works great. I doubt this is your issue, but just figured I'd put it out there.


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Default 07-22-2015, 05:46 PM

DMAC considering how deep you are into this maybe consider getting the ZF solenoid kit? Here's a link the part number listed is the ZF part number so you could search for it.

Also I always wondered how the trans would work if you used 26/28 solenoids... I assume they're stronger. Something for you to look into.
http://www.zftranspart.com/index.php...&parent=4&pg=1

With a new TC I couldn't think of what else it could be.
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Default 07-22-2015, 05:48 PM

BTW I always thought the Lvl 10 full build was wildly overpriced all they actually replace from I understand are the clutchpacks.. They modify the VB and TC and the pump... That's 4500??
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Default 07-22-2015, 05:53 PM

I was shocked when they told me they weren't going to do anything about my transmission anymore (not honoring their warranty). They flipped their story and are saying it's a software issue... again.

I ran the exact same flash Terry was running on his car. - Same issue
I ran a flash that worked fine on my stock transmission. - Same issue
I ran a high load and high Load to Torque table. - Same issue
I ran a high load stock Load to Torque table. - Same issue
I ran a low load high Load to Torque table. - Same issue
I ran a low load stock Load to Torque table. - Same issue
I ran a high load leaner fuel target. - Same issue
I ran a low load leaner fuel target. - Same issue

I ran MANY more combinations than this and they all had the same issue.

I ask ANYONE to explain to me how this could even remotely be a software issue give the information above.

For those wondering, I'm on the original Alpina flash, not whatever the new one is. I have an almost identical setup to both Terry and Phuong.


Other rants for today:
Apparently Pat didn't authorize the reimbursement for the travel expenses, even though when I spoke with Ryan (a Level 10 employee) the previous Friday, he said "Ok, I'll get an itinerary written up for Monday." I didn't get an itinerary on Monday so I sent them one and under the itinerary asked, "Also what time would be best to drop the car off?" (so he clearly had to see the expenses I calculated out), and Dave simply responded "7am would be best so we have the full day on the 22nd." He never said "Why are you sending us this itinerary?" or "We're not covering travel expenses.", so I thought everything was fine since I was told by one of their employees that they would get me an itinerary. Check the emails around June 16th in my email records here: http://dmacpro91.com/LevelTenSaga/ Note the travel expenses were only around $350 total so it's not the money I'm upset about with that, but the fact that I was told something by one of their employees and the company won't honor that.

Oh and when they sent me the torque converter, I asked them to send me the money for the labor like we agreed so I could go ahead and pay the place. To that they said, send us the torque converter first. I said, since you all didn't pay for the travel expenses (like I was told you would) I would like a signed, written contract stating that you agree to pay the amount of $475 for the tc install labor if you want me to send the torque converter back first. That seems fair and reasonable does it not? Had they just paid for the labor up front (again like they said they would), I'd have had the converter shipped to them the next day.

I had really high hopes for dealing with this company in the beginning and even up until a few weeks ago, but the way they've handled things these past few weeks has left a terrible impression on me.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nniftyfour
DMAC considering how deep you are into this maybe consider getting the ZF solenoid kit? Here's a link the part number listed is the ZF part number so you could search for it.

Also I always wondered how the trans would work if you used 26/28 solenoids... I assume they're stronger. Something for you to look into.
http://www.zftranspart.com/index.php...&parent=4&pg=1
I considered it, but why should I have to spend almost $850 ($550 parts $300 labor) on something that is their responsibility to fix? This honestly could be as simple as a solenoid swap to get me up and running since these are the same solenoids that have always been in there and that is a known weak part on this transmission, but if they aren't willing to honor their warranty and stand by their product, I want no part of it.


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(#264)
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Default 07-22-2015, 06:26 PM

I heard IPT is better than level10 as far as work and parts on the tranny.
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135pats 135pats is offline
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Default 07-22-2015, 06:44 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nniftyfour
BTW I always thought the Lvl 10 full build was wildly overpriced all they actually replace from I understand are the clutchpacks.. They modify the VB and TC and the pump... That's 4500??
Even if it worked well (and it doesn't), that price is silly. There are far more seriously 'built' dual clutch products for similar prices
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Default 07-22-2015, 08:24 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dmac @ BMS/DMD
I was shocked when they told me they weren't going to do anything about my transmission anymore (not honoring their warranty). They flipped their story and are saying it's a software issue... again.

I ran the exact same flash Terry was running on his car. - Same issue
I ran a flash that worked fine on my stock transmission. - Same issue
I ran a high load and high Load to Torque table. - Same issue
I ran a high load stock Load to Torque table. - Same issue
I ran a low load high Load to Torque table. - Same issue
I ran a low load stock Load to Torque table. - Same issue
I ran a high load leaner fuel target. - Same issue
I ran a low load leaner fuel target. - Same issue

I ran MANY more combinations than this and they all had the same issue.

I ask ANYONE to explain to me how this could even remotely be a software issue give the information above.

For those wondering, I'm on the original Alpina flash, not whatever the new one is. I have an almost identical setup to both Terry and Phuong.


Other rants for today:
Apparently Pat didn't authorize the reimbursement for the travel expenses, even though when I spoke with Ryan (a Level 10 employee) the previous Friday, he said "Ok, I'll get an itinerary written up for Monday." I didn't get an itinerary on Monday so I sent them one and under the itinerary asked, "Also what time would be best to drop the car off?" (so he clearly had to see the expenses I calculated out), and Dave simply responded "7am would be best so we have the full day on the 22nd." He never said "Why are you sending us this itinerary?" or "We're not covering travel expenses.", so I thought everything was fine since I was told by one of their employees that they would get me an itinerary. Check the emails around June 16th in my email records here: http://dmacpro91.com/LevelTenSaga/ Note the travel expenses were only around $350 total so it's not the money I'm upset about with that, but the fact that I was told something by one of their employees and the company won't honor that.

Oh and when they sent me the torque converter, I asked them to send me the money for the labor like we agreed so I could go ahead and pay the place. To that they said, send us the torque converter first. I said, since you all didn't pay for the travel expenses (like I was told you would) I would like a signed, written contract stating that you agree to pay the amount of $475 for the tc install labor if you want me to send the torque converter back first. That seems fair and reasonable does it not? Had they just paid for the labor up front (again like they said they would), I'd have had the converter shipped to them the next day.

I had really high hopes for dealing with this company in the beginning and even up until a few weeks ago, but the way they've handled things these past few weeks has left a terrible impression on me.



I considered it, but why should I have to spend almost $850 ($550 parts $300 labor) on something that is their responsibility to fix? This honestly could be as simple as a solenoid swap to get me up and running since these are the same solenoids that have always been in there and that is a known weak part on this transmission, but if they aren't willing to honor their warranty and stand by their product, I want no part of it.
I have a very strong suspicion Pat doesn't make the financial calls there. Pat seems like a REALLY good guy. But when I brought up pricing to Pat he got quite sheepish and said Dave handle's all of that. I was surprised by his reaction.

Ive personally dealt with level 10 and while I don't want to get into my experience and bad mouth them. I'll say one thing...

I don't trust them and I would suggest not going there.... And it's not because one of their products failed on me.


Put my name as someone who recommends NOT using them. But I won't tell my saga publicly

The valveboody work DOES match the Alpina flash better... That I can say for certain. So its not a complete ripoff shop. Just overpriced.

Donnie and Terry you will have email tomorrow detailing my experience's. Also if there's anyone who rebuilds these PM me I have some things to show you I need opinion on. I got several interesting tidbits
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(#267)
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Dmac @ BMS/DMD's Avatar
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Default 07-22-2015, 08:50 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nniftyfour
I have a very strong suspicion Pat doesn't make the financial calls there. Pat seems like a REALLY good guy. But when I brought up pricing to Pat he got quite sheepish and said Dave handle's all of that. I was surprised by his reaction.

Ive personally dealt with level 10 and while I don't want to get into my experience and bad mouth them. I'll say one thing...

I don't trust them and I would suggest not going there.... And it's not because one of their products failed on me.


Put my name as someone who recommends NOT using them. But I won't tell my saga publicly

The valveboody work DOES match the Alpina flash better... That I can say for certain. So its not a complete ripoff shop. Just overpriced.

Donnie and Terry you will have email tomorrow detailing my experience's. Also if there's anyone who rebuilds these PM me I have some things to show you I need opinion on. I got several interesting tidbits
Yea I remember Dave mentioning you in a few phone calls when they were testing out the load to torque tweaks. I'm super interested in hearing your experience. PM me for my private email if you don't have it already.


2008 135i 4L80E Swap - 807 WHP
VM 6466 Single Turbo Kit | JB4 | BMS Flash via MHD | Fuel-It Stage 3 | BMS Port Injection | E85


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(#268)
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Default 07-23-2015, 08:46 AM

Donnie,

Sorry it didn't pan out, I hope you are able to be fairly compensated for all of this. So frustrating to see things like this happen to people and shops that just throw up a wall when things go south.

For that amount of money I would certainly pursue any and all reimbursement avenues. I would consult an attorney to draft a letter on your intents to be fairly compensated and to review their warranty to for discovery of where you stand. I would also make sure you have copies of their written warranty so nothing is changed between now and later. Just my thoughts as $7500 to anyone is a significant amount of money for a product that fails to meet advertised capabilities.

Just makes my skin crawl.....

I really do hope you come out of all this fully compensated.

To anyone else still standing behind level 10, you should be focusing on the treatment of a customer when things get tough. That is what separates great companies from bad. It's easy to do it right when money is flowing and parts don't break, the hard calls happen in the bad situations and those decisions in my opinion are what define good business practices and validate any statements they advertise regarding customer service.
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Default 07-23-2015, 08:49 AM

Donnie,

Sorry it didn't pan out, I hope you are able to be fairly compensated for all of this. So frustrating to see things like this happen to people and shops that just throw up a wall when things go south.

For that amount of money I would certainly pursue any and all reimbursement avenues. I would consult an attorney to draft a letter on your intents to be fairly compensated and to review their warranty for discovery of where you stand. I would also make sure you have copies of their written warranty so nothing is changed between now and later. Just my thoughts as $7500 to anyone is a significant amount of money for a product that fails to meet advertised capabilities.

Just makes my skin crawl.....

I really do hope you come out of all this fully compensated.

To anyone else still standing behind level 10, you should be focusing on the treatment of a customer when things get tough. That is what separates great companies from bad. It's easy to do it right when money is flowing and parts don't break, the hard calls happen in the bad situations and those decisions in my opinion are what define good business practices and validate any statements they advertise regarding customer service.
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Dmac @ BMS/DMD's Avatar
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Default 07-25-2015, 12:07 PM

Since Level 10 isn't going to cover anything anymore, I'm going to give this one last shot and replace the solenoids myself ($800 gamble). If it works, I'll give Level 10 one more opportunity to reimburse me for all of the parts/labor this has cost me. If they agree, I'll cancel the dispute. If not, I'll allow the dispute to proceed.


2008 135i 4L80E Swap - 807 WHP
VM 6466 Single Turbo Kit | JB4 | BMS Flash via MHD | Fuel-It Stage 3 | BMS Port Injection | E85


For all JB4 Mobile/Connect Kit requests, email me at: support@jb4connectkit.com

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kyle kyle is offline
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Default 07-25-2015, 12:12 PM

I've been following this thread and sorry to hear about all your troubles. I hope the solenoids solve the issue so you have a proper shifting trans regardless of if level 10 steps up and does right by you or not (hope they do). Good luck.
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Default 07-26-2015, 12:51 AM

Really sorry to hear about the issues you're having, heads up on getting a used trans for 1k like someone else suggested though. I put in a used trans after mine started doing some funny stuff in February; the used unit only had 50k on it and have sunk almost 5k into it since then. It's been in a trans shop getting rebuilt for a three weeks now. (Torque converter was toast, apparently a cracked drum, clutches were down to the steel)

I'm in somewhat of the same boat and am thinking I should have just gone manual at this point too but I didn't want to deal with flywheel chatter and or misfire issues with a stock manual flywheel.

I hope solenoids fix your issue since it seems like valve body/solenoids are what cause the flare up on shift issues we seem to have on higher HP AT cars.

This blows because I talked to Dave last week about sending in my valve body and he told me that the service included new solenoids but am rethinking it now after reading this. Will have to follow this thread. Good luck man.


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Last edited by Sikh335xi; 07-26-2015 at 01:00 AM..
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Default 07-29-2015, 12:50 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bowser330
https://www.powertraincontrolsolutio...on_Controller/

The TCM-2650 is compatible with the GM 6L45/50, 6L80/90, 6T30/40/45, 6T70/75, Allison 1000 (5 and 6 speeds), the 2nd generation ZF 6HP and the Volkswagen DSG.

If only someone would do a custom controlled 6l80e !!!
I discovered this myself while reading up on 6L80 swaps. Came across this controller and then searched google and found this post... Why haven't we explored this option further?
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Default 07-29-2015, 01:42 AM

can level 10 make an account and jointhe thread to settle this
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Dmac @ BMS/DMD's Avatar
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Default 08-07-2015, 10:02 PM

Update:

Decided to take a chance and swap the solenoids and guess what...
THE WEIRD SHIFTS ARE GONE!!! The only problem that remains is that the car won't hold 5th gear. 1-2,2-3,3-4 are all fine, but 4-5 slips back into 4th. I'm going to assume this is probably an issue with the clutches as I received a gear ratio monitoring code not too long ago. But this PROVES that the issue was hardware related all along. On Monday I'm going to give Level 10 a call and offer them a chance to make this right. If they want me to drop the dispute/chargeback, I want to be FULLY reimbursed for all of my travel, parts, and labor it took for me to fix something that they should have replaced a long time ago. I'll post video proof that the "weird shift" is currently gone later and will update this thread again on Monday when I speak with them.

Video proof:


2008 135i 4L80E Swap - 807 WHP
VM 6466 Single Turbo Kit | JB4 | BMS Flash via MHD | Fuel-It Stage 3 | BMS Port Injection | E85


For all JB4 Mobile/Connect Kit requests, email me at: support@jb4connectkit.com

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Last edited by Dmac @ BMS/DMD; 08-07-2015 at 10:39 PM..
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