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Default 09-30-2020, 08:34 AM

Typically the WMI Kit for the VR30 comes with BM5 nozzles. The reason I was asking is your AFR numbers are a bit rich and perhaps a smaller nozzle might lean those numbers out - assuming the Fuel Wires installed and enabled is not getting AFR's in the mid 11's.

Your 91 fuel will be a long term limiter but the addition of WMI should help out on multiple levels to keep your timing up.


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Last edited by jrobohm; 10-23-2020 at 08:32 AM.. Reason: Typo
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Sleeper2017RSAWD Sleeper2017RSAWD is offline
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Default 12-10-2020, 02:42 PM

I noticed in the product description of the for the kit on burgertuning.com, it states that WMI "...will automatically disengage during traction control...". Does this mean that the entire JB4 boost controller, fuel wires, and EWGs also disengage during traction control? Is there a way to turn this function off, so that you can run with traction control on an not worry if you get a bit of tire slip that everything will shut down?
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Default 12-11-2020, 07:09 AM

Terry would have the definitive answer but I believe that BMS WMI statement is for the BMW platform and not the Infiniti.


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Sleeper2017RSAWD Sleeper2017RSAWD is offline
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Default 12-11-2020, 05:01 PM

Thanks, jrobohm. Terry responded to a log I posted in the EWG thread today and I asked him about this as well. I'm contemplating WMI vs exhaust upgrade (or both, eeek!).
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Default 12-15-2020, 06:45 AM

WMI is a very nice effective octane cushion when running high timing and/or boost. As I live in typically hot weather - the added cooling effect is a big bonus. Yes it isn’t cheap, or convenient to install; but even with my EcuTek tune I still have my JB4/WMI kit installed!


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Default 12-29-2020, 10:41 PM

hi i just read every post for the last 4 hours.... pages 19-21 when yal are saying map 7 is the meth map im really confused when this changed because previous post say it is map 8... i also just posted a complete overview/My notes of this thread below... can some one give me some specific WGDC set ups and data. ive been using jb4 for about 2 years and my horse power numbers differ significally from yals but now im worried its turned up way too high and un safe.... oh and my i just redownloaded my JB4 today and for some reason it wont log even when its saying its logging.




jb4 tuning and methanol info found via forums

On initial install, to use Map7, you need to set
Boost Additive (do 30 or 40 for starters),
Signal Scaling to 60, Min Flow Boost (12 for
starters). These settings are under Advanced>JB4
Tuning>WMI. Log and see what needs to be
adjusted.



Map5 and map7 have a leaner AFR target of
a pt or so yes. The car feels significantly
stronger on map 6 at the same boost level as map
7, because of the richer AFR.


I'd try more WGDC by raising up FF maybe to 65.



You can leave meth trigger mode = 4, JB4 on map0,
if you want no tuning or safety and just want
meth to flow.

To have WMI add 1-2psi you'd enter what you want
added under map6 and then run map6. There is a
safety option not in the current firmware we'll
need to enable for you to accomidate it meth
safety mode = 4. Email for that if you need it.


Remember to look at the notes for V8, the
maps changed function. WMI map is different
now. I kept it the same and managed to turn
on valet mode haha.




orange wire to pin #3
Blue to pin #16


ethanol setup = all off


map 8 is 0-10psi above stock this map is methanol
specific and uses the canbus systm to give as much
boost as possible depending on the flow of the
meth also while keeping the engine "safe"


A 75 additive is roughly equal to map7 while
a 0 additive is roughly equal to map1.
And it blends linearly between them



last safty =
1 boost over safty
2 afr lean
3 fuel pres. low
4 meth flow low
5 fuel trim variance

.


Map 6 is custom mappin



Set Boost Additive to 40. Signal Scaling to 60.
Min Flow Boost 10

Signal scaling is normally 60 for an FSB
running a BMS WMI pump.
Signal scaling is normally 60 for an FSB running
a BMS WMI pump. If you're using another pump it
may need to be higher or lower. It's the min
flow for the JB4 to consider the pump at full
flow.



Boost additive is how much boost you make on map8 i
under full meth flow. the higher the number
the higher the boost target. The system scales
between a map similar to map1 with a 0 additive
and similar to map7 with a 75 additive. The
additive can be set up to 100 but normally
75-80 is the practical maximum.





set meth trigger = 1 so meth flows on all maps,
1 enables WMI on all maps, 0 the default
enable WMI only on map8.


Meth trigger= 4 allows you to turn on meth with no OBDII
cable, in the event you need to datalog with an
external scanner like his EcuTek tuner did

Trigger mode 4 is meth flow all maps including
map0 without OBDII. No safety provided

it allows meth to work without OBDII data
without safety or JB4 tuning for the short term
purpose of using a non-JB4 logging tool in the
OBDII port.


Meth flows on map6 with meth trigger = 0 also.
So the best settings for most are the defaults,
meth trigger = 0 and meth safety = 0.

If you're running meth primarily for cooling
and not relying on it for octane then meth
trigger = 1 to let it flow on all maps (other
than 0) is a good bet.



"external trigger enable" from the WMI menu =1
meth trigger mode from the user adjust menu =1



Purge only works on map8 seems like.
doesn’t work.*** FYI - Purge only works on Map 7
apparently this changed along the way possibly
not sure on how accurate this is.



Fuel wires are responsible for the leaner
target AFR that you see in the log. WMI is
responsible for needing less fuel trims added
to achieve the leaner target AFR.




high boost over 5000 (17/18 psi) you're
just pumping heat at that point.






Added support for JB4 fuel control wires.
To enable install wires to JB4 and set
FutureUseD bit0 on. Once enabled you'll
see "fuel enrichment" dynamically adjust
in JB4 logs as it drives AFR up to the
revised targets. Setting bit0 on WITHOUT the
fuel wire will not negatively effect anything,
but AFR readings in logs will not be accurate.




Originally Posted by jrobohm
On your JB4 WMI settings - what are you running
with?

Boost Additive = ?
Signal Scaling = ?
Min Flow Boost = ?
External Trigger = ?
Min RPM = ?
Max RPM = ?

ba 40
ss 60
mfb 10
et 1
min default
max default




I wonder if using the 375ml nozzles from
Prometh would eliminate the leakage? I’ve
been consider because of their superior
atomization...better than Snow’s. Their link:
https://prometh.com/collections/nozzles

Ok Folks, I installed the ProMeth 5 GPH
Nozzles (w/filters) and the Atomization
is AMAZING! They are an excellent pairing
with the BMS WMI Kit...perfect fitment into
BMS inlets. I am considering a bump up to 6 or
7 GPH. Here’s the link to #5
https://prometh.com/products/5-0-gph...jection-nozzle




reduce plug gap to stop quenching of methanol
seems to me you cam run up to pm8 nozzles



Map 6 (Flat - 0 across the board) with WMI
on top of the Speciality Z Seb tune
(to account for the HPFP / LPFP adds.)
Car is a rocketship - really want to do
some fine-tuning with Seb on the dyno here
in North Texas (Jotech.)




Terry has chimed in on this earlier but placing the injection nozzles pre-turbo does make the install easier on the VR30 but may not be considered the "best" placement (see article link).

Where to locate your alcohol-water injection nozzle - DevilsOwn Injection


It's well documented that closer to the intake
manifold/combustion chamber is better for
performance. When you spray upstream of the
turbo, it will vaporize sooner, which means it
can't pull anymore heat out. By spraying closer
to the intake manifold, you are letting the A2W
intercoolers do their job FIRST, THEN the
meth/water can pull heat from the already cooled
air and pull heat out of the combustion chamber
allowing more boost or timing by raising the
knock threshold. It is giving you a better bang
for the buck so to speak. That said, it is true
that the install can be more involved as you
have to unbolt and move around the A2W coolers,
but you don't disconnect the water lines so it's
not bad.


^^^^ my take on this answer is the intercooler would be doing its job either way and equally efficient. cold air can get cooler and hot to cool to colder is also the same effect. its late i hope that mad any since and ive been reading for 4 hours lmao my head hurts.


************************************

Last edited by IamSaleenX; 12-29-2020 at 10:51 PM.. Reason: adding stuff
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Default 01-02-2021, 08:02 AM

That's a big post - lots of history in these forums - some of which I have forgotten. Starting with the basics - please update your signature to include your car's details (year, trim line, drivetrain, modification list, etc. - take a look at how others have listed theirs as a guide.)

It would also be helpful to list for us your current JB4 settings. This way everyone can look at what your setup/configuration looks like so we can comment.

Lastly (yes - after we iron out your logging issue) - please upload a couple of 3-4 gear log pulls so we can see what your car is doing with the fuel, WMI, boost request, etc.


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Default 01-02-2021, 02:52 PM

A log with default settings is always a good first step.


Burger Motorsports
Home of the JB4 the worlds most popular turbocharged tuning system!

It is the sole responsibility of the purchaser and installer of any BMS part to employ the correct installation techniques required to ensure the proper operation of BMS parts, and BMS disclaims any and all liability for any part failure due to improper installation or use. It is the sole responsibility of the customer to verify that the use of their vehicle and items purchased comply with federal, state and local regulations. BMS claims no legal federal, state or local certification concerning pollution controlled motor vehicles or mandated emissions requirements. BMS products labeled for use only in competition racing vehicles may only be used on competition racing vehicles operated exclusively on a closed course in conjunction with a sanctioned racing event, in accordance with all federal and state laws, and may never be operated on public roads/highways. Please click here for more information on legal requirements related to use of BMS parts.
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Akira6 Akira6 is offline
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Default 01-20-2021, 04:48 AM

Hey guys just popping in quick to see if anyone can help me come up with some ideas.
I'm currently running just JB4 and Meth injection. My main reason for meth injection is because I only have access to 91 octane fuel.
I've been wanting to get a BOV kit recently because I've become a fan of the sound but I much prefer having the Meth injection over the BOV because the BOV doesn't really have many pros besides the noise from what I've been reading.

So my question is, has anyone come up with any other places to inject meth that is safe?
I found a company that produces and sells a meth injection plate for the VR30 which is $300, but I would need to buy a Direct port 6 cylinder meth injection kit which is $200 as well as 4 more nozzles which is $100. Totaling out to $600 to move the meth injection into direct port which would free up the area where the bov goes. To me this seems very costly and not worth it for just some noise, because a HKS BOV kit is already $650.
So in total to get BOVs on and move the injection spot, I'd be $1,250 in.

I've seen some people put their meth injection on the spot above where BMS suggests to inject into. But I think I remember reading some issues occurring from that.

Anyone got any ideas or thoughts they wanna throw in?
If I were to just make a meth bung on the BOV chargepipes from Z1 would there be issues? I'm afraid of meth spraying out into the engine bay and causing a fire. But I think the JB4 would close off the meth in time and the BOV wouldn't spray much if any meth into the bay.

Last edited by Akira6; 01-20-2021 at 04:56 AM..
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ddnspider ddnspider is offline
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Default 01-20-2021, 05:10 AM

JB4 Meth Injection Install-Everything stays in the bay | Infiniti Q50 Forum


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Akira6 Akira6 is offline
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Default 01-20-2021, 05:14 AM

Didn't you have issues with that install spot? I thought you ended up changing it or something like that.
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Default 01-20-2021, 05:36 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Akira6
Didn't you have issues with that install spot? I thought you ended up changing it or something like that.
Not after I moved the driverside to pre TB. Been running like this for at least a year if not longer with no issues. Both sides are in couplers right before the TB.


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Akira6 Akira6 is offline
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Default 01-20-2021, 06:09 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by ddnspider
Not after I moved the driverside to pre TB. Been running like this for at least a year if not longer with no issues. Both sides are in couplers right before the TB.
So both your injection points are between the intercooler and the throttle body like the pictures with no issues, gotchya.
What was the issue you had previously with like the pressure issue or like the methanol getting sucked up or something?

I probably might try this, especially since the BOV kits come with a different coupler anyways for between the intercooler and throttle body.
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Default 01-20-2021, 06:15 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Akira6
So both your injection points are between the intercooler and the throttle body like the pictures with no issues, gotchya.
What was the issue you had previously with like the pressure issue or like the methanol getting sucked up or something?

I probably might try this, especially since the BOV kits come with a different coupler anyways for between the intercooler and throttle body.
The driverside was behind the TB which was siphoning what was in the line due to having a vacuum on it. Once I moved it to in front of the TB all the siphoning went away and no issues since. I hit 18 psi and my logs are beautiful.


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Sleeper2017RSAWD Sleeper2017RSAWD is offline
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Default 02-18-2021, 02:19 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by ddnspider
Yes the preturbo lets you run outside of the efficiency range, it pushes the island to the right. But post heat exchanger has a larger impact on overall temp drop plus not vaporizing prior to the combustion chamber. Pulling more heat out of the chamber is key to adding boost/timing.
No opinion here, just trying to understand the debate. By "pre-turbo" this means between the turbo and heat exchanger, correct (and not actually between air intake and turbo)? And "post-turbo" would be between the heat exchanger and intake manifold? Also, "hot side" = pre-turbo and "cold-side" = post-turbo, right?


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ddnspider ddnspider is offline
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Default 02-18-2021, 03:41 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sleeper2017RSAWD
No opinion here, just trying to understand the debate. By "pre-turbo" this means between the turbo and A2W, correct (and not actually between air intake and turbo)? And "post-turbo" would be between the A2W and intake manifold? Also, "hot side" = pre-turbo and "cold-side" = post-turbo, right?
No preturbo is literally preturbo lol. The compressor inlet after the air filter. Post turbo can either be at the compressor outlet which is pre-A2W, post A2W preTB, or post TB.


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Last edited by ddnspider; 02-18-2021 at 05:05 PM..
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Sleeper2017RSAWD Sleeper2017RSAWD is offline
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Default 02-18-2021, 04:15 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by ddnspider
No preturbo is literally preturbo lol. The compressor inlet after the air filter. Post turbo can either be at the compressor outlet which is pre-HX, post HX preTB, or post TB.
Ok so the standard install location per BMS instructions would then be post-turbo, pre-HX? Is that the hot or cold side? Just trying to keep up lol!


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Sleeper2017RSAWD Sleeper2017RSAWD is offline
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Default 02-18-2021, 04:52 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sleeper2017RSAWD
Ok so the standard install location per BMS instructions would then be post-turbo, pre-HX? Is that the hot or cold side? Just trying to keep up lol!
To clarify, I meant post-turbo, pre-intercooler aka charge air cooler (not heat exchanger).


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Default 02-18-2021, 05:05 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sleeper2017RSAWD
Ok so the standard install location per BMS instructions would then be post-turbo, pre-HX? Is that the hot or cold side? Just trying to keep up lol!
That is how they state to install them, but not where I installed mine. All injection points are cold side.


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Default 02-18-2021, 05:14 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by ddnspider
That is how they state to install them, but not where I installed mine. All injection points are cold side.
Ok got it (I think!). Boy, do I sound qualified to try and install this myself or what ha!


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Sleeper2017RSAWD Sleeper2017RSAWD is offline
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Default 02-20-2021, 09:50 AM

Is it possible to trigger WMI based on pedal position? I know there are RPM cutoffs, but pedal position (or maybe throttle position?) seems to make more sense. That way you have WMI engaged right away from standing start, but never flows in everyday driving? Or will it bog at very low RPM? For the record, don't have WMI (yet), so am open to all opinions/criticism if a stupid idea.


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Default 02-22-2021, 02:10 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sleeper2017RSAWD
Is it possible to trigger WMI based on pedal position? I know there are RPM cutoffs, but pedal position (or maybe throttle position?) seems to make more sense. That way you have WMI engaged right away from standing start, but never flows in everyday driving? Or will it bog at very low RPM? For the record, don't have WMI (yet), so am open to all opinions/criticism if a stupid idea.
Yes you can set the threshold by TPS, gear, boost, etc.


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Default 02-23-2021, 06:27 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by ddnspider
Yes you can set the threshold by TPS, gear, boost, etc.
TPS = Throttle Position Sensor? So a value of 80 would mean it triggers only above 80% throttle for example? If so, perfect.


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Default 02-23-2021, 06:44 PM

You got it.


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Default 02-24-2021, 05:15 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Terry @ BMS
Regardless we used to offer kits like that years ago and stopped for various reasons. Pump doesn't work well, vapor lock, fire risk, etc. You've been advised. It's your car you can do what you want with the setup.

On nozzles normally we don't place them on the vacuum side so perhaps that is your issue. Fix is the same, shorten up the line to the solenoid. Or add a solenoid right on each nozzle.
Terry - Getting ready to pull the trigger on your WMI kit. I want to avoid issue of lines emptying between solenoid and nozzles. With dual nozzles and the T-distribution block, you can only go so short. Above you referenced adding a second solenoid, one right next to each nozzle. Could you really do this given heat at that location? Would you wire the two in parallel to the JB4? Do you sell separate solenoids to do this?

In earlier post you said to stay away from using check valves at each nozzle due to pressure drop. There seems to be some quality spring check valves out there with low crack pressure. Could you possibly use these in conjunction with a slightly larger nozzle?

It just seems like you would want to eliminate all air pockets/bubbles along the entire line from tank to nozzle for maximum response / consistent performance, especially when it matters most during initial acceleration.


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