N54Tech.com - International Turbo Racing Discussion
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Snowman Snowman is offline
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Default Help me pick turbo('s) for a 600-700bhp build - 06-04-2018, 10:44 AM

So i finally picked up a used 335 2007 with about 90000miles on it with automatic gearbox.
The car has had the injectors and turbo's replaced to index 12 and oem turbo's.
Ive now done all the maintenance posts with oil+filter in both engine and gearbox.

The plan for the car is to have a capable and fun car during summers. The car wont be used for long journeys but mainly short drives around where i live and then to attend different events like rolling starts for 50km/h and WOT for 1000m.
Because of the above it would be great to have a car that produces around 600-700bhp, which is at or above what i understand the auto can handle.
First of all i have access to fine E85 and i have already ordered a stage 3 fuel pump and PI.


Im leaning towards a ST-kit simply because it looks awesome and at the same time it removes alot of the different extra things under the hood that are involved with the twins, vaccum cannisters etc.
Also a cheap ST-kit (ON3) is about the same price as a decent pair of twins, even if i have to replace the turbo on the ON3, it would still not be that expensive..

The first question would be if you would advice me to go ST or keep twins?
The second question would be which kit i should go for?
Ive been told tat on3 is OK queality as long as i skip CP, IC and expect the turbo to die in the future.
There are also other manufacturers like "youwish" who both has a ST top mount and are working on a cheap bottom mount.

It would be awesome if i could keep the budget for the turbo's as low and slim as possible..
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Default 06-04-2018, 11:30 AM

I've said it before and I'll say it again, don't get the cheapest option. You'll just have to rip things apart to adjust/fix things in the future. A local guy went with an ON3 kit and it fit like crap. He ended up having to pay out the nose for the shop to make the required adjustments.

I went with the Doc Race single turbo kit. It fit perfect and performs flawlessly. It comes with everything you need. It is honestly the best kit available for the price. If saving $100 will help, use discount code N54JAKE at checkout on www.docrace.com. Buy once, cry once. It's worth it.

I just put down some good power with the 6266 ball-bearing turbo and stage 3 LPFP & PI like you ordered. Expect a thread with pictures and videos tomorrow.


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Default 06-04-2018, 11:39 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by suspenceful
I've said it before and I'll say it again, don't get the cheapest option. You'll just have to rip things apart to adjust/fix things in the future. A local guy went with an ON3 kit and it fit like crap. He ended up having to pay out the nose for the shop to make the required adjustments.

I went with the Doc Race single turbo kit. It fit perfect and performs flawlessly. It comes with everything you need. It is honestly the best kit available for the price. If saving $100 will help, use discount code N54JAKE at checkout on www.docrace.com. Buy once, cry once. It's worth it.

I just put down some good power with the 6266 ball-bearing turbo and stage 3 LPFP & PI like you ordered. Expect a thread with pictures and videos tomorrow.
What parts of the ON3 kit had poor fitment?
From what ive been told the actual manifold fits nicely aswell as the ********. However some other parts might be sketchy, which i plan to remove anyway.

The issue if i would order a Docrace kit is the insane price..
First the kit is about 5095usd with a ball bearing turbo, add shipping of about 400-500usd adds up to 5595 which i then have to add 30% taxes to.
Which makes it a whooping totalt of 7273usd

The ON3 makes it possible to get the kit this winter and then perhaps replace the turbo the winter after it.
The kit itself is around 2600usd+shipping+taxes/import duties which adds up to 4030usd which is almost half the price of the docrace...
Sure i will most likely have to fork up for a new turbo in the not to distant future, but it wont cost 3243usd for sure

Also since i have the issue that the gearbox might fork out around 600bhp, im not sure it would be worth shedding all that money on a docrace kit..
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Default 06-04-2018, 12:59 PM

I use the On3 kit and from what I experienced was minor. I had to force the two piece center section together with a little force and bring it together with the v-band, but other than that the manifold wasn't hard to put on. My issues with it were my fault. I highly recommend getting some heat sheath for the oil feed, I eventually melted the inside coating on the steel line. The turbo outlet coupler to the hot side charge pipe was too small so I also recommend getting a longer one. Not a bad install. It performs, but honestly if I could go back I would go with Jpworkz or better. I do recommend it if it fits your budget though. You can't beat the added intercooler for that price IMO.

EDIT: Also put the wastegate dump tube on as soon as you're able. It's a b.
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Default 06-04-2018, 01:03 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ancient8989
I use the On3 kit and from what I experienced was minor. I had to force the two piece center section together with a little force and bring it together with the v-band, but other than that the manifold wasn't hard to put on. My issues with it were my fault. I highly recommend getting some heat sheath for the oil feed, I eventually melted the inside coating on the steel line. The turbo outlet coupler to the hot side charge pipe was too small so I also recommend getting a longer one. Not a bad install. It performs, but honestly if I could go back I would go with Jpworkz or better. I do recommend it if it fits your budget though. You can't beat the added intercooler for that price IMO.
Thanks for your reply!

Ive looked at jpworkz but ive also read ALOT of horror stories involving him and things never being delivered... Ive also seen forum post about legal actions etc.
Since im located in Sweden, faar away from the US, i cant dare to spend 3-4k usd on a vendor that perhaps wont never deliver the goods ive paid for..

However which other vendors are there in between ON3 and docrace?
The On3 kit comes in around 2600-2700usd with the same items as in the Docrace which they charge 4500/5000 for, there must be something inbetween?
Youwish seems to be working on a simple design bottom mount kit, with a nice price tag. But when i google ghim there seems to be alot of people who have had problems with delivery time aswell as people not receiving what they orderd..
So im not sure if i dare to order from him..
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Default 06-04-2018, 01:34 PM

I didn't realize the Doc Race kit was so expensive after all your international fees. Either way, it is a solid kit and I'd recommend it over others, especially ON3.

My friend had issues with the center section of the manifold. No matter what he did, the v-band was so far apart, there was no way it'd connect once mounted to the motor. Had to chop and modify the manifold.


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Default 06-04-2018, 01:37 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by suspenceful
I didn't realize the Doc Race kit was so expensive after all your international fees. Either way, it is a solid kit and I'd recommend it over others, especially ON3.

My friend had issues with the center section of the manifold. No matter what he did, the v-band was so far apart, there was no way it'd connect once mounted to the motor. Had to chop and modify the manifold.
The first problem is shipping the whole package to Sweden since it will be both large and heavy.
Secondly the customs here in Sweden add about 30-40% of the value of the package in fees and taxes..
So if i could just find someone who makes single turbo kits inside EU it would be great..
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Default 06-04-2018, 02:26 PM

Vargas GC


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Default 06-04-2018, 02:30 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Payam @ BMS
Vargas GC
Ive had a look at them, however one of the reasons to go ST is the simplier engine bay layout.
Less vacum lines, less cluttered.

Also the Vargas GC is just a tad cheaper than the Docrace kit once you spec it up to "par" with the Docrace kit..
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Default 06-04-2018, 03:38 PM

you gotta decide what you can afford and weigh the pros and cons of the options in that range. i.e. power goals, complexity of system, spool, serviceability, cost, vendor support, etc.
everyone has their own idea about what's important.

but, my 2 cents -
high-quality single kit if you want to spend the most money, or go with GC's or Pure S2 HF if you don't.


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ShocknAwe ShocknAwe is offline
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Default 06-04-2018, 03:44 PM

If you can't afford to spend at least $5k then just buy PS2s


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Default 06-04-2018, 05:15 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by ShocknAwe
If you can't afford to spend at least $5k then just buy PS2s
It's expensive to ship PS2's to Europe as well don't forget the core charges, the need of BOV/Intercooler, inlets and outlets. Purchasing a proper turbo kit for a N54 in Europe is expensive, add 30-40% over what you'd pay in US. I found VTT stage 2+ the best option price wise for import, which I believe will satisfy my goal of 600hp.

To the OP: you've got to seriously consider your budget. Installing a single turbo is generally more expensive than hybrids. Every little thing adds up to a reasonable amount of money, starting with something like more expensive oil that you should treat your car to with the amount of power it makes, to trying to find the sweet spot on how to map your ECU with the single turbo or buying something like a Motiv boost box. Might as well consider finding a shop that could make you a custom manifold and ******** and snap a turbo of your liking to the car.

As for shipping stuff, you can try and use something like Shipzee, you could save on some import taxes (at your own risk, package will be insured for a sum of money that you declare). Never used it though, so I'd do my research. Here's a good FAQ answer on their site:

Q: Who determines and declares the value of my parcel/package?
A: You will be required to declare the value of the content by yourself while placing a parcel shipment order.
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Default 06-04-2018, 05:19 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Payam @ BMS
Vargas GC
Seriously?


SOLD - FBO N54, Pure Turbos stage 2, TFT inlets, JB4/MHD, EOS intake manifold w/PI, Fuel-it stage 3
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ShocknAwe ShocknAwe is offline
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Default 06-04-2018, 05:41 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by skirmozas
It's expensive to ship PS2's to Europe as well don't forget the core charges, the need of BOV/Intercooler, inlets and outlets. Purchasing a proper turbo kit for a N54 in Europe is expensive, add 30-40% over what you'd pay in US. I found VTT stage 2+ the best option price wise for import, which I believe will satisfy my goal of 600hp.

To the OP: you've got to seriously consider your budget. Installing a single turbo is generally more expensive than hybrids. Every little thing adds up to a reasonable amount of money, starting with something like more expensive oil that you should treat your car to with the amount of power it makes, to trying to find the sweet spot on how to map your ECU with the single turbo or buying something like a Motiv boost box. Might as well consider finding a shop that could make you a custom manifold and ******** and snap a turbo of your liking to the car.

As for shipping stuff, you can try and use something like Shipzee, you could save on some import taxes (at your own risk, package will be insured for a sum of money that you declare). Never used it though, so I'd do my research. Here's a good FAQ answer on their site:

Q: Who determines and declares the value of my parcel/package?
A: You will be required to declare the value of the content by yourself while placing a parcel shipment order.
Pure has an operation in Belgium. Even if it's just a shipping front. Their site leads me to believe they do flat rate shipping within the EU, and including core charge, the PS2 is ~4200 euro shipped. I'd also assume that includes VAT?


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Default 06-04-2018, 06:49 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by ShocknAwe
Pure has an operation in Belgium. Even if it's just a shipping front. Their site leads me to believe they do flat rate shipping within the EU, and including core charge, the PS2 is ~4200 euro shipped. I'd also assume that includes VAT?
Yes, that includes VAT already. Now throw in a charge pipe+bov, inlets/outlets (twice as expensive as US) and you're looking at a little over 6k USD... Then don't forget to add an intercooler, proper VRSF 7,5" will set one back at least 800 EUR in Europe and you're already looking at 7k USD. Add a little more for the stuff I'm forgetting, throw the install works on top of that (if you have shop do it for you) and that's in between 8k to 9k USD. I mean the list goes on and on, and the topic is turbos only. One may not realize how much of hidden expense there is.

Just another thing why PS2 is too expensive in Europe - all you get is turbos, nothing else. Install kit is not included, there is no bundle for the rest of the mandatory kit that you're going to install with the turbos.

I did my research on this dude as I was specifically looking for a reasonably priced set of hybrid turbos to import or buy in the EU. EU sellers just add the shipping and import taxes to the price they paid for stuff, then add their profit margin and in the end it's not even worth buying. All development is made in the US and there's simply no competition between vendors here in Europe, people rather tune diesel cars I guess...
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Default 06-04-2018, 07:50 PM

From everything I've read over the years and more recently, I'm with most on the situation and would stick with pure or doc race kit as far as firmest and dependability. You go with a cheaper or problematic kit, you're paying a lot for a replacement with the back and forth shipping with those high fees and taxes.
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ShocknAwe ShocknAwe is offline
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Default 06-05-2018, 04:53 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by skirmozas
Yes, that includes VAT already. Now throw in a charge pipe+bov, inlets/outlets (twice as expensive as US) and you're looking at a little over 6k USD... Then don't forget to add an intercooler, proper VRSF 7,5" will set one back at least 800 EUR in Europe and you're already looking at 7k USD. Add a little more for the stuff I'm forgetting, throw the install works on top of that (if you have shop do it for you) and that's in between 8k to 9k USD. I mean the list goes on and on, and the topic is turbos only. One may not realize how much of hidden expense there is.

Just another thing why PS2 is too expensive in Europe - all you get is turbos, nothing else. Install kit is not included, there is no bundle for the rest of the mandatory kit that you're going to install with the turbos.

I did my research on this dude as I was specifically looking for a reasonably priced set of hybrid turbos to import or buy in the EU. EU sellers just add the shipping and import taxes to the price they paid for stuff, then add their profit margin and in the end it's not even worth buying. All development is made in the US and there's simply no competition between vendors here in Europe, people rather tune diesel cars I guess...
Can't agree with your argument as you'll need to buy all that hardware regardless. It's not a reason not to buy pure. Also, install kit is nothing special. Source the parts locally if you can't get them from the vendor.


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Default 06-05-2018, 11:53 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by PR3CI5N335i
Seriously?
I wouldn't post if I wasn't serious lol


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Snowman Snowman is offline
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Default 06-05-2018, 12:08 PM

Why should I go for GC lite or pure stg 2?
Please leave a comment/motivaton on why I should make what pick/decision.

Just writing what I should go for is kind of meaningless since I don't know WHY I should go for it.
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Default 06-05-2018, 01:25 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Snowman
Why should I go for GC lite or pure stg 2?
Please leave a comment/motivaton on why I should make what pick/decision.

Just writing what I should go for is kind of meaningless since I don't know WHY I should go for it.
GC are cast and made from the ground up.

Pures are good too, but I'm not a fan of machining stock housings and shoving bigger wheels and calling it a day.

Now the reason why I chose those over single is because of price. If price was NOT a factor, I would go with ACF top mount.


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It is the sole responsibility of the purchaser and installer of any BMS part to employ the correct installation techniques required to ensure the proper operation of BMS parts, and BMS disclaims any and all liability for any part failure due to improper installation or use. It is the sole responsibility of the customer to verify that the use of their vehicle and items purchased comply with federal, state and local regulations. BMS claims no legal federal, state or local certification concerning pollution controlled motor vehicles or mandated emissions requirements. BMS products labeled for use only in competition racing vehicles may only be used on competition racing vehicles operated exclusively on a closed course in conjunction with a sanctioned racing event, in accordance with all federal and state laws, and may never be operated on public roads/highways. Please click here for more information on legal requirements related to use of BMS parts.
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Snowman Snowman is offline
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Default 06-05-2018, 02:12 PM

Replying to Lessismore:s post who got removed very quickly..
Wow someone got butthurt real quick.
I thought forums was made for question like this?

Do believe me when I say I've google a lot.
Some people like on3, some like docrace etc.
Pure seems to be expensive as well as docrace but both seem to deliver.
Vtt and rb seems to have issues with reliability and customer support.
Some people are happy with jpworkz and youwish while some people claim them both to be scammers..

There are so much conflicting information to be found once you start googling that it is basicly impossible to make a decision since every brand seem to have at least some disgruntled customers bashing at their brand..
The cheaper brands definitely have more, but that could as well just be their competitors bashing at them to destroy their competition...


Payam- Thanks for your reply!
Do you know anything about the reliability of the gc Lite's?
I tried to so down googling and only found some initial tests just when they were released. Some people feared that the reliability would not be that good since other vtt products had poor reliability..

Also why would you go acf before docrace?
What makes the acf superior to the docrace?
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Default 06-05-2018, 04:02 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Snowman
Replying to Lessismore:s post who got removed very quickly..
Wow someone got butthurt real quick.
I thought forums was made for question like this?

Do believe me when I say I've google a lot.
Some people like on3, some like docrace etc.
Pure seems to be expensive as well as docrace but both seem to deliver.
Vtt and rb seems to have issues with reliability and customer support.
Some people are happy with jpworkz and youwish while some people claim them both to be scammers..

There are so much conflicting information to be found once you start googling that it is basicly impossible to make a decision since every brand seem to have at least some disgruntled customers bashing at their brand..
The cheaper brands definitely have more, but that could as well just be their competitors bashing at them to destroy their competition...


Payam- Thanks for your reply!
Do you know anything about the reliability of the gc Lite's?
I tried to so down googling and only found some initial tests just when they were released. Some people feared that the reliability would not be that good since other vtt products had poor reliability..

Also why would you go acf before docrace?
What makes the acf superior to the docrace?
I know of a few local customers running the GC's. I'm actually about to dial one in today with Stage 3 LPFP and PI. It seems to be running really strong with just 17 psi and some mild ethanol blend.

ACF is just local to me, so it's always easier. Doc race is just as good IMO, you won't go wrong with either one! I know ACF has good shipping rates, it would be worth a shot hitting him up and telling him I sent you. Acfabrication@gmail.com


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Home of the Worlds fastest N20s, N54s, N55s, S55s, N63s, and S63s!

It is the sole responsibility of the purchaser and installer of any BMS part to employ the correct installation techniques required to ensure the proper operation of BMS parts, and BMS disclaims any and all liability for any part failure due to improper installation or use. It is the sole responsibility of the customer to verify that the use of their vehicle and items purchased comply with federal, state and local regulations. BMS claims no legal federal, state or local certification concerning pollution controlled motor vehicles or mandated emissions requirements. BMS products labeled for use only in competition racing vehicles may only be used on competition racing vehicles operated exclusively on a closed course in conjunction with a sanctioned racing event, in accordance with all federal and state laws, and may never be operated on public roads/highways. Please click here for more information on legal requirements related to use of BMS parts.
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Default 06-06-2018, 09:39 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Payam @ BMS
Vargas GC
Those things blow up left and right. Seen a set of GCs grenade the turbine wheel in 1500 miles.

Could not pay me to run vargas turbos on my car.
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Default 06-06-2018, 10:49 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by veer90
Those things blow up left and right. Seen a set of GCs grenade the turbine wheel in 1500 miles.

Could not pay me to run vargas turbos on my car.
I've seen a few things happen with hybrids sure, but that's why it all comes with warranty.


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It is the sole responsibility of the purchaser and installer of any BMS part to employ the correct installation techniques required to ensure the proper operation of BMS parts, and BMS disclaims any and all liability for any part failure due to improper installation or use. It is the sole responsibility of the customer to verify that the use of their vehicle and items purchased comply with federal, state and local regulations. BMS claims no legal federal, state or local certification concerning pollution controlled motor vehicles or mandated emissions requirements. BMS products labeled for use only in competition racing vehicles may only be used on competition racing vehicles operated exclusively on a closed course in conjunction with a sanctioned racing event, in accordance with all federal and state laws, and may never be operated on public roads/highways. Please click here for more information on legal requirements related to use of BMS parts.
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Snowman Snowman is offline
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Default 06-06-2018, 11:49 AM

If i would need to replace a set of turbos it will surely cost me from 200 to 1000usd in just shipping fees and customs charges
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