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Default 6AT slipping/popping out of gear with gear symbol in dash - 03-22-2015, 08:56 AM

Doing a few pulls against a GTR last night. At the end of 5th gear right around 6000 RPMs the tranny slipped out of gear and RPMs jumped to 7000 in an instant as my pedal was still to the floor. The yellow gear symbol with the exclamation point came on the dash. Obviously I let go of the pedal, coasted to a stop and had to restart the engine. This happened 3 time is a row. Why would this be happening? Otherwise tranny shifts very smooth and fast.

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map 7 jb4 on e70 fuel
bms newest e85 flash and firmware
autoshift boost reduction is set at 75
alpina tranny flash
42k miles on car

As I had a tranny pan gasket leak, I did a tranny fluid drain and fill about 500 miles ago and used Redline D4 fluid. But I don't know how this could the culprit of the problem. Maybe I need to reset adaptation in tranny after the fluid change?

I will include a log from one of the pulls where this happened. Please help.
Attached Files
File Type: csv tranny erro code.csv (8.0 KB, 216 views)


2008 135i Sport 6at
JB4 G5 ISO, MHD E85 KR, Fuel-it S1, E55 Mix, Alpina Trans Flash, afe Scoops, My own custom 2.5" inlets, ER CP, Synapse BOV, 3.5 Tmap, 7.5" Phoenix FMIC, NGK 5992, 3" BMS downtubes, N55 Mids, Berk Race, BMS OCC, 48 plate oil cooler, 36 plate trans fluid cooler, PSS, R888, Hoosier DRs.
11.92@123.6 (JB4 ISO, DCI, IC, **, DR, on e45 & 17psi)(2013)
444whp/481wtq @19psi and e60 (2013)

2013 X3 xDrive28i M-package
JB4, K&N drop-in, ER downtube, Map 2 @ 22psi on 93
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BostonBeemah BostonBeemah is offline
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Default 03-22-2015, 09:16 AM

BMW 335i N54 VM 6465 Top Mount at 25psi Trans. failure: https://youtu.be/y-wq8MmWh4M

You mean something like this? Usually happens when making more torque than the tranny can handle and it doesn't shift properly. It's just odd because your on stock turbos. How long have you had the Alpina flash?


2010 AW/BLK 135i VM 6465 Single Turbo, JB4 + MHD, VRSF CP & Tial, Big Tom, Fuel-It PI + Stage 3 + Return + Ethanol Sensor, BMW PE, MFactory LSD & Axles, Spec 3+ & MFactory SMFW, RB External PCV
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Default 03-22-2015, 09:21 AM

I had the alpina flash since pretty much since the beggining of tunning my car. Yes this is exacly what happens with mine but mine actually shifts smooth and fast at WOT. And yes im on stock turbos... and cant be making more than 500wtq im guessing. Maybe a tranny reset adaptations will help?


2008 135i Sport 6at
JB4 G5 ISO, MHD E85 KR, Fuel-it S1, E55 Mix, Alpina Trans Flash, afe Scoops, My own custom 2.5" inlets, ER CP, Synapse BOV, 3.5 Tmap, 7.5" Phoenix FMIC, NGK 5992, 3" BMS downtubes, N55 Mids, Berk Race, BMS OCC, 48 plate oil cooler, 36 plate trans fluid cooler, PSS, R888, Hoosier DRs.
11.92@123.6 (JB4 ISO, DCI, IC, **, DR, on e45 & 17psi)(2013)
444whp/481wtq @19psi and e60 (2013)

2013 X3 xDrive28i M-package
JB4, K&N drop-in, ER downtube, Map 2 @ 22psi on 93
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Default 03-22-2015, 09:24 AM

Wow that's odd. Maybe the tranny has just been stressed for such a long time that it's finally giving up? Idk dude sorry. I have a manual tranny so don't know too much on the matter but I would say give the reset a shot and see if it helps. Maybe Ando or Terry or someone else that has experienced this can chime in..


2010 AW/BLK 135i VM 6465 Single Turbo, JB4 + MHD, VRSF CP & Tial, Big Tom, Fuel-It PI + Stage 3 + Return + Ethanol Sensor, BMW PE, MFactory LSD & Axles, Spec 3+ & MFactory SMFW, RB External PCV
Best stock turbo 12.5 @ 19.46 spinning all the way down
RIP 2008 AW/BL 135i
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Default 03-22-2015, 09:39 AM

I'd say tranny is just warning you its getting close to that point. Sounds exactly like what is going on in that video posted above. Does seem like rather low power to be making for the tranny to go though. But try the reset and see if that helps. Fingers crossed it does!


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Default 03-22-2015, 10:28 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by seroga1986
Doing a few pulls against a GTR last night. At the end of 5th gear right around 6000 RPMs the tranny slipped out of gear and RPMs jumped to 7000 in an instant as my pedal was still to the floor. The yellow gear symbol with the exclamation point came on the dash. Obviously I let go of the pedal, coasted to a stop and had to restart the engine. This happened 3 time is a row. Why would this be happening? Otherwise tranny shifts very smooth and fast.

As I had a tranny pan gasket leak, I did a tranny fluid drain and fill about 500 miles ago and used Redline D4 fluid. But I don't know how this could the culprit of the problem. Maybe I need to reset adaptation in tranny after the fluid change?
This is a known problem with high boost cars, this is why MHD is working on a flash so that the DME and TCU can see actual torque produced.
Never heard or read of this happening on a stock turbo car, I would replaced that redline fluid with OE BMW trans fluid, then drive around for 100miles and replace again to remove all traces of the old fluid


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Default 03-22-2015, 11:03 AM

Interesting. Not to thread jack but I was having problems last night as well with my 6AT. Happened twice. Floored it in second gear and when the tires broke lose on unpredictable pavement, the car just jerked forward and missed 3rd gear and went back to 2nd? Like a hiccup or something. It was like hitting a brick wall from all that torque. The second time it happened I got as transmission failure light. Restarted again, did one more pull and it help up in second fine and went to third. Im not sure what to expect since it shifts butter smooth otherwise. Just changed my trans fluid with OEM fluid, at 115,000 miles and recent RB turbo install


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Default 03-22-2015, 04:15 PM

i had the same issue with the newest high load e85 flash. i went back to the e85 low load flash and car feels great with no shifting issues. i think some of my issue was a slight over boost post shift.

mine would do it mostly on the 3-4 or 4-5 shifts, and only during a hard wot pull through all the gears (starting in second). did it more often in sport mode during an auto shift, but would also do it on a manual shift too. its a weird feeling when the "miss shift" happens.

my car is much happier and the shifts are smoother with the low load flash...


JB4G5 ISO/BMS E85 Flash, vrsf **'s, vrsf 7" fmic, vrsf cp with tial, 255 walbro inline,e60,alpina trans flash
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Default 03-22-2015, 04:55 PM

Sorry guys i completely forgot to add the error codes that i pulled from JB4. Here they are:
2DC3 Control clamp 15
2E8D Intelligent battery sensor, signal transmission

hope this helps.

Also do you guys think the non OEM transmission fluid (Redline D4) will make a difference? Now i am thinking to do a drain and fill with OEM fluid and then do it again in 100 miles to get all the redline fluid out.


2008 135i Sport 6at
JB4 G5 ISO, MHD E85 KR, Fuel-it S1, E55 Mix, Alpina Trans Flash, afe Scoops, My own custom 2.5" inlets, ER CP, Synapse BOV, 3.5 Tmap, 7.5" Phoenix FMIC, NGK 5992, 3" BMS downtubes, N55 Mids, Berk Race, BMS OCC, 48 plate oil cooler, 36 plate trans fluid cooler, PSS, R888, Hoosier DRs.
11.92@123.6 (JB4 ISO, DCI, IC, **, DR, on e45 & 17psi)(2013)
444whp/481wtq @19psi and e60 (2013)

2013 X3 xDrive28i M-package
JB4, K&N drop-in, ER downtube, Map 2 @ 22psi on 93
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Default 03-22-2015, 05:34 PM

These codes are probably not related to the tranny problem. I do have a light weight battery though.


2008 135i Sport 6at
JB4 G5 ISO, MHD E85 KR, Fuel-it S1, E55 Mix, Alpina Trans Flash, afe Scoops, My own custom 2.5" inlets, ER CP, Synapse BOV, 3.5 Tmap, 7.5" Phoenix FMIC, NGK 5992, 3" BMS downtubes, N55 Mids, Berk Race, BMS OCC, 48 plate oil cooler, 36 plate trans fluid cooler, PSS, R888, Hoosier DRs.
11.92@123.6 (JB4 ISO, DCI, IC, **, DR, on e45 & 17psi)(2013)
444whp/481wtq @19psi and e60 (2013)

2013 X3 xDrive28i M-package
JB4, K&N drop-in, ER downtube, Map 2 @ 22psi on 93
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Default 03-23-2015, 07:20 AM

redline d4 is not good for our trans, I have it in mine right now and i'm certain its ruining my trans so i bought a spare just in case. I'll never use it again in this car.
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Default 03-23-2015, 07:36 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by TT-Tom
redline d4 is not good for our trans, I have it in mine right now and i'm certain its ruining my trans so i bought a spare just in case. I'll never use it again in this car.
http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=923861

its fine.


Current: 2008 e92 335i coupe.

Previous: 2003 Honda Accord V6 coupe: AEM V2, zex 75 wet shot (sold)
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Default 03-23-2015, 07:36 AM

can you elaborate as to why d4 is bad? i personally run pentosin atf1 in my trans. zero issues tuned for 20k. im at 72 now. running mhd flash.



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TT-Tom TT-Tom is offline
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Default 03-23-2015, 07:48 AM

atf1 is ok, its extremely similar to the base shell fluid from oem. The d4 is not even close, they claim it is, however i can tell you first hand it is not ok and some companies (ecstuning) have stopped recommending it for our trans after several customer complaints. I've considered going after them for damages as they said in the past that it is suitable for the 6hp21, it is certainly not. My trans was perfect before I changed the fluid, now i have rough 2-1 and some slipping in logs. I believe others have had the same issues in the past as well. I should have taken the advice of several people who said only use mecronsp, atf1, or the oem fill.
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Default 03-23-2015, 07:48 AM

i just changed mine and put the bmw fluid back in it.


JB4G5 ISO/BMS E85 Flash, vrsf **'s, vrsf 7" fmic, vrsf cp with tial, 255 walbro inline,e60,alpina trans flash
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Default 03-23-2015, 09:01 AM

Time for a new stronger transmission.


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Default 03-23-2015, 09:26 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by suprchrgd
i had the same issue with the newest high load e85 flash. i went back to the e85 low load flash and car feels great with no shifting issues. i think some of my issue was a slight over boost post shift.

mine would do it mostly on the 3-4 or 4-5 shifts, and only during a hard wot pull through all the gears (starting in second). did it more often in sport mode during an auto shift, but would also do it on a manual shift too. its a weird feeling when the "miss shift" happens.

my car is much happier and the shifts are smoother with the low load flash...
I think im experiencing the same thing you were. Was any damage done to the trans or has it been shifting/holding up fine now? Im a little weary that i screwed up my trans already because it happend a couple times, the last time it actually threw a code.


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Default 03-23-2015, 09:30 AM

My tranny was fine before this redline d4 fluid. Before this fluid i put in many hours of road course, dig races and roll races... zero problems. Changed fluid with redline... drive normal for 200 miles or so then went out for some fun in canada and BAM first hard pull this problem, followed by 2 more repeats. I really think it is the fluid. I have talked to a good bmw mechanic i know and he says that he is pretty confident its the fluid. He recommended to do drain and fill 2 times with the oem stuff. Sucks that its $30 a liter.


2008 135i Sport 6at
JB4 G5 ISO, MHD E85 KR, Fuel-it S1, E55 Mix, Alpina Trans Flash, afe Scoops, My own custom 2.5" inlets, ER CP, Synapse BOV, 3.5 Tmap, 7.5" Phoenix FMIC, NGK 5992, 3" BMS downtubes, N55 Mids, Berk Race, BMS OCC, 48 plate oil cooler, 36 plate trans fluid cooler, PSS, R888, Hoosier DRs.
11.92@123.6 (JB4 ISO, DCI, IC, **, DR, on e45 & 17psi)(2013)
444whp/481wtq @19psi and e60 (2013)

2013 X3 xDrive28i M-package
JB4, K&N drop-in, ER downtube, Map 2 @ 22psi on 93
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Stucks Stucks is offline
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Default 03-23-2015, 09:59 AM

i mean, i know a couple of people who use d4 in their 6at's and are fine. it might possibly have something to do with the transmission internals getting used to the oem fluid, then when you throw different fluid at it with different viscosity levels, it may still be used to the older stuff.


Current: 2008 e92 335i coupe.

Previous: 2003 Honda Accord V6 coupe: AEM V2, zex 75 wet shot (sold)
Past 1998 acura integra rs: jrsc @ 6 psi and bolt ons.
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135pats 135pats is offline
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Default 03-23-2015, 10:07 AM

So who has actual quantifiable information as to why D4 is inferior to OE lifeguard? So far we have a handful of anecdotal experiences. So i'll throw in my anecdotal experience, since that appears to be the standard.

I've run D4 in two N54 powered cars for about 15K in one, and probably 10K in the other. One was a stock turbo car, the other is presently making about 580WHP on E85. I've never once had an issue with the 6ATs in either, certainly nothing that I could plausibly trace back to fluid that is MORE viscous and shear resistant. D4 *on paper* should offer stronger protection in high heat and high load environments. There's nothing super exotic going on here....it's transmission fluid.

OP were I to guess (which is what we're all doing in this thread) your 6AT slipped coming into 5th gear for two reasons.

1. Presuming you started in 3rd, that's A LOT of heat you are building up. A 3-4-5 pull is not a little deal.
2. Torque comes on like a raped ape on stock frame cars. You roll into boost and the transmission goes from 150WTQ to 500WTQ in what, 700 RPMs? It doesn't like seeing that huge and sudden lump of torque.

My 2C.
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Default 03-23-2015, 10:30 AM

When i ordered the d4 on redline website about a year ago it said compatible with bmw 6 at zf trans. Now it doesnt say that. Only D6 says that now. Before it was the opposite. Strange.


2008 135i Sport 6at
JB4 G5 ISO, MHD E85 KR, Fuel-it S1, E55 Mix, Alpina Trans Flash, afe Scoops, My own custom 2.5" inlets, ER CP, Synapse BOV, 3.5 Tmap, 7.5" Phoenix FMIC, NGK 5992, 3" BMS downtubes, N55 Mids, Berk Race, BMS OCC, 48 plate oil cooler, 36 plate trans fluid cooler, PSS, R888, Hoosier DRs.
11.92@123.6 (JB4 ISO, DCI, IC, **, DR, on e45 & 17psi)(2013)
444whp/481wtq @19psi and e60 (2013)

2013 X3 xDrive28i M-package
JB4, K&N drop-in, ER downtube, Map 2 @ 22psi on 93
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seroga1986 seroga1986 is offline
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Default 03-23-2015, 10:34 AM

And when you say i am building up alot of heat in a 3-4-5 gear pull? Well i would abuse it for 30 min on a road course and everything was fine. On the oem fluid ofcourse.


2008 135i Sport 6at
JB4 G5 ISO, MHD E85 KR, Fuel-it S1, E55 Mix, Alpina Trans Flash, afe Scoops, My own custom 2.5" inlets, ER CP, Synapse BOV, 3.5 Tmap, 7.5" Phoenix FMIC, NGK 5992, 3" BMS downtubes, N55 Mids, Berk Race, BMS OCC, 48 plate oil cooler, 36 plate trans fluid cooler, PSS, R888, Hoosier DRs.
11.92@123.6 (JB4 ISO, DCI, IC, **, DR, on e45 & 17psi)(2013)
444whp/481wtq @19psi and e60 (2013)

2013 X3 xDrive28i M-package
JB4, K&N drop-in, ER downtube, Map 2 @ 22psi on 93
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135pats 135pats is offline
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Default 03-23-2015, 10:40 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by seroga1986
And when you say i am building up alot of heat in a 3-4-5 gear pull? Well i would abuse it for 30 min on a road course and everything was fine. On the oem fluid ofcourse.
That would certainly put a lot of stress on the motor, but for the transmission i'd bet that a 3-4-5 pull is every bit as demanding, if not more. You are applying full load out of nowhere (so far as the transmission is concerned) for a continuous what, 10-12 seconds or so? I doubt it would see that type of sustained WOT load on a road course in 5th gear - i'd argue that's going to test the motor more than than the trans. 5th gear is a bear for the 6AT.

Again, *on paper* D4 is an objectively superior fluid. Now perhaps there's some magic to the 6HP21 that makes it hate D4, i'm not an expert. But if we're basically just throwing around anecdotes to conclude "This fluid is bad for your car", figured i'd add my data as the flip side of the coin.
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Default 03-23-2015, 10:46 AM

I agree to some point.


2008 135i Sport 6at
JB4 G5 ISO, MHD E85 KR, Fuel-it S1, E55 Mix, Alpina Trans Flash, afe Scoops, My own custom 2.5" inlets, ER CP, Synapse BOV, 3.5 Tmap, 7.5" Phoenix FMIC, NGK 5992, 3" BMS downtubes, N55 Mids, Berk Race, BMS OCC, 48 plate oil cooler, 36 plate trans fluid cooler, PSS, R888, Hoosier DRs.
11.92@123.6 (JB4 ISO, DCI, IC, **, DR, on e45 & 17psi)(2013)
444whp/481wtq @19psi and e60 (2013)

2013 X3 xDrive28i M-package
JB4, K&N drop-in, ER downtube, Map 2 @ 22psi on 93
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suprchrgd suprchrgd is offline
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Default 03-24-2015, 06:23 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by natedog7700
I think im experiencing the same thing you were. Was any damage done to the trans or has it been shifting/holding up fine now? Im a little weary that i screwed up my trans already because it happend a couple times, the last time it actually threw a code.
after going back to the low load e85 flash, i have not had any shifting issues. the shifts are still quick and feel good.


JB4G5 ISO/BMS E85 Flash, vrsf **'s, vrsf 7" fmic, vrsf cp with tial, 255 walbro inline,e60,alpina trans flash
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