N54Tech.com - International Turbo Racing Discussion
(#1)
Old
wolfusor wolfusor is offline
New Member
 
Posts: 16
Join Date: Jan 2019
Car: e92 335i
Default Plugging headports - 08-29-2019, 01:48 PM

I've read a fair amount of posts on this and still haven't found a definite answer.
There are benefits of setting an external PCV system and plugging head ports, mostly related to boost leaking through them, but this is not what really concerns me. Some people here pointed to the fact that boost leaking through these ports into the crankcase will quickly cause leaking gaskets (VC, oil filter housing, oil pan) and/or seals (front and rear). I wonder, how many guys here run 15+psi boost without plugging ports? For how long and how often do you run into leaking gaskets/seals?
Also, are there any downsides of an external PCV setup and/or plugged head ports?


2007 N54
E92 MT
JB4
DCI
**

Last edited by wolfusor; 08-30-2019 at 08:50 AM..
Reply With Quote
(#2)
Old
Dave @ BMS/Fuel-It!'s Avatar
Dave @ BMS/Fuel-It! Dave @ BMS/Fuel-It! is offline
Super Moderator
 
Posts: 5,723
Join Date: Apr 2014
Car: E92 335XI
Default 09-03-2019, 12:50 PM

IMO stock turbo power levels- an external PCV / plugging the head ports isn;t really needed.

Would it hurt to do it--- no, but i dont think you'll have any issues doing the normal upgraded PCV valve & just making sure everything else is in working order.



http://www.fuel-it.biz/

e92 AT 335xi 2.0
Doc Race Kit 6062
Fuel-It!Platinum DIY PI Kit + Stage 2BL
Reply With Quote
(#3)
Old
Domino_86's Avatar
Domino_86 Domino_86 is offline
Junior Member
 
Posts: 32
Join Date: Mar 2014
Car: 335i sedan
Default 09-03-2019, 04:11 PM

I was running 17 psi for about 2 or 3 years and blew out a rear main seal because of it. My VCG and OPG went around the same time if not earlier. I plugged the head ports as well as changed the VC entirely. No oil leaks and peace of mind. My high side is routed via flapper valve to BMS OCC and VTA afterwards ($.02). Like the previous comment, stock levels my not matter TBH, but I wouldn't chance higher levels. There are no downsides to the external setup. Whether you choose Vader Solutions, RB, BMS, Misfir3 Race, etc., you won't regret it. It should aid in extended intervals for walnut blasting.

Last edited by Domino_86; 09-03-2019 at 04:18 PM..
Reply With Quote
(#4)
Old
Rob@RBTurbo's Avatar
Rob@RBTurbo Rob@RBTurbo is online now
Stalker
 
Posts: 3,958
Join Date: Feb 2009
Car: 335I
Default 09-03-2019, 06:27 PM

Agree with the above. Once you go external PCV, it is really just plain dumb to not plug these ports, regardless of what you may read there is no upstream adapter that can accomplish this feat for you aka "bullet proofing" the setup. All said while it is not "necessary" it is still "very HIGHLY" suggested, so do it ASAP but keep in mind you have to be External PCV as well.

Rob


See www.rbturbo.com for N54 Twin Turbo Bolt-On upgrades, or contact directly 314-630-8950 rob.rbturbo@gmail.com for a price quote.
Reply With Quote
(#5)
Old
wolfusor wolfusor is offline
New Member
 
Posts: 16
Join Date: Jan 2019
Car: e92 335i
Default 09-04-2019, 11:35 PM

Thanks everyone for sharing opinions. I'm itchy to try water/meth injection and enjoy some extra hp, but it looks like external PCV and headports will have to come first. Really not looking forward to start changing around gaskets and seals.


2007 N54
E92 MT
JB4
DCI
**
Reply With Quote
(#6)
Old
BIMMIN BIMMIN is offline
Junior Member
 
Posts: 59
Join Date: May 2019
Car: 2009 335i AT
Default 09-05-2019, 03:42 AM

Question that maybe vargas can answer. Say that you do not plug the ports and install then check valve oil cap breather that is designed to vent any positive pressure from the valve cover.

This theoretically would get rid of the issue of leaking seals and gaskets, right?


2009 E92 335i AT
Engine
Rev9 Hybrid 16t twins, Injen cyborg intake, CP-e charge pipe with HKS SSqv BOV, RB external PCV catch can, BMS catch can, Cobb intercooler, HKS Legamax exhaust, RB inlets, VTT single barrel hpfp, fuel-it! stage 2 lpfp, MOTiV Flex fuel flash only w/ trans tune by Cedar Performance
558rwhp and 523rwtq on e60 110* ambient air
Reply With Quote
(#7)
Old
Terry @ BMS's Avatar
Terry @ BMS Terry @ BMS is offline
Tuner
 
Posts: 29,711
Join Date: Jan 2008
Default 09-05-2019, 10:39 AM

I don't see any reason to plug them these days with the BMS vacuum side OCC kit. We block it at the valve cover. If you have a valve cover gasket leak you're going to want to fix it anyway whether or not you've plugged the ports.


Burger Motorsports
Home of the Worlds fastest N20s, N54s, N55s, S55s, N63s, and S63s!

It is the sole responsibility of the purchaser and installer of any BMS part to employ the correct installation techniques required to ensure the proper operation of BMS parts, and BMS disclaims any and all liability for any part failure due to improper installation or use. It is the sole responsibility of the customer to verify that the use of their vehicle and items purchased comply with federal, state and local regulations. BMS claims no legal federal, state or local certification concerning pollution controlled motor vehicles or mandated emissions requirements. BMS products labeled for use only in competition racing vehicles may only be used on competition racing vehicles operated exclusively on a closed course in conjunction with a sanctioned racing event, in accordance with all federal and state laws, and may never be operated on public roads/highways. Please click here for more information on legal requirements related to use of BMS parts.
Reply With Quote
(#8)
Old
BIMMIN BIMMIN is offline
Junior Member
 
Posts: 59
Join Date: May 2019
Car: 2009 335i AT
Default 09-05-2019, 11:28 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Terry @ BMS
I don't see any reason to plug them these days with the BMS vacuum side OCC kit. We block it at the valve cover. If you have a valve cover gasket leak you're going to want to fix it anyway whether or not you've plugged the ports.
Can you elaborate on that? I have the RB external kit. Comes with a check valve pcv at the valve cover. But how does that keep the valve cover from pressurizing under high boost levels? I thought the issue was boost pressure going up through the head ports into the vc?

Or am I not understanding the physics of the n54 pcv system.


2009 E92 335i AT
Engine
Rev9 Hybrid 16t twins, Injen cyborg intake, CP-e charge pipe with HKS SSqv BOV, RB external PCV catch can, BMS catch can, Cobb intercooler, HKS Legamax exhaust, RB inlets, VTT single barrel hpfp, fuel-it! stage 2 lpfp, MOTiV Flex fuel flash only w/ trans tune by Cedar Performance
558rwhp and 523rwtq on e60 110* ambient air
Reply With Quote
(#9)
Old
Rob@RBTurbo's Avatar
Rob@RBTurbo Rob@RBTurbo is online now
Stalker
 
Posts: 3,958
Join Date: Feb 2009
Car: 335I
Default 09-05-2019, 11:30 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Terry @ BMS
I don't see any reason to plug them these days with the BMS vacuum side OCC kit. We block it at the valve cover. If you have a valve cover gasket leak you're going to want to fix it anyway whether or not you've plugged the ports.
Need to step outside the box it seems. Firstly the BMS adapter has done nothing to the PCV chamber that every adapter before it hasn't already done (literally all the same double O-ring), in fact it is an exact clone of the others with how it interfaces with the valve cover. This is why for NONE of them is it "necessary" to plug the head ports.

But this doesn't mean the unknown of "is the valve cover gasket bad, is the valve cover internally fractured, etc etc" is fun to deal with when said and done. Who wants to exhibit symptoms down the road and say "heck lets just change the valve cover gasket it may need it" anyway? Sales pitch aside it seems to be common sense to want cut the cancer out when you get in there ASAP. In other words once you going External PCV it is "best" to plug those ports, to cut off any chance of pressure making it into the crankcase from those potential avenues, and never look back.

Rob


See www.rbturbo.com for N54 Twin Turbo Bolt-On upgrades, or contact directly 314-630-8950 rob.rbturbo@gmail.com for a price quote.

Last edited by Rob@RBTurbo; 09-05-2019 at 11:37 AM..
Reply With Quote
(#10)
Old
wolfusor wolfusor is offline
New Member
 
Posts: 16
Join Date: Jan 2019
Car: e92 335i
Default 09-05-2019, 07:59 PM

Does anyone know of an alternative plugging method? Tapping does not seem to be too hard, but for someone doing it the first time it will take a good few hours and there is a small chance of dropping metal shavings into the engine.


2007 N54
E92 MT
JB4
DCI
**
Reply With Quote
(#11)
Old
ansch ansch is offline
New Member
 
Posts: 6
Join Date: Aug 2018
Car: 135i
Default 09-05-2019, 10:49 PM

It's quite easy to do, if at any time you're doing the vcg anyway, it just makes sense to plug it while you're there. Take your time, tape the hole from inside the port and on the inside of the head next to the hole you're working on. Use a shop vac and vacuum up each time you back the tap out.
Reply With Quote
(#12)
Old
Domino_86's Avatar
Domino_86 Domino_86 is offline
Junior Member
 
Posts: 32
Join Date: Mar 2014
Car: 335i sedan
Default 09-06-2019, 04:27 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by wolfusor
Does anyone know of an alternative plugging method? Tapping does not seem to be too hard, but for someone doing it the first time it will take a good few hours and there is a small chance of dropping metal shavings into the engine.
Omar at Vader Solutions sells a PCV block off which I assume does the same thing. I could be wrong, but I didn't take that route due to the fact that (I think) it doesn't seal as well as tapping the ports. (I could be wrong) I used a vacuum to catch all the metal shavings and stuffed shop towels down the intake ports. I did catch some shavings on the bottom end which was caught by the vacuum as well. Basically keep the vacuum running and very close.
Reply With Quote
(#13)
Old
Rob@RBTurbo's Avatar
Rob@RBTurbo Rob@RBTurbo is online now
Stalker
 
Posts: 3,958
Join Date: Feb 2009
Car: 335I
Default 09-06-2019, 07:45 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by ansch
It's quite easy to do, if at any time you're doing the vcg anyway, it just makes sense to plug it while you're there. Take your time, tape the hole from inside the port and on the inside of the head next to the hole you're working on. Use a shop vac and vacuum up each time you back the tap out.
Agree, extremely easy to do. A careful first timer should spend less than 1 hour doing it. If you have done it before probably 30 minutes. Remember you do not need to tap but only about 8-10 turns deep, you do NOT need (or want) to tap all the way through the hole. This allows the threaded plug to bottom out on the untapped portion.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Domino_86
Omar at Vader Solutions sells a PCV block off which I assume does the same thing. I could be wrong, but I didn't take that route due to the fact that (I think) it doesn't seal as well as tapping the ports. (I could be wrong) I used a vacuum to catch all the metal shavings and stuffed shop towels down the intake ports. I did catch some shavings on the bottom end which was caught by the vacuum as well. Basically keep the vacuum running and very close.
There is no outside alternative to plugging these holes. It is only accomplishable by actually plugging them, in one way or the other. Using the threaded plugs seems to be the best way, however we have heard of some doing it by welding/jb weld/etc etc... but that seems much more invasive to me as that can require the head to be removed nor would it be easily reversible if ever desired.

Once this is completed there is no longer any direct failure prone connection point between the turbochargers outlet (boost) and the crankcase, and if not anything else you can sleep peacefully at night knowing pressurizing the crankcase is no longer going to be a concern.

Rob


See www.rbturbo.com for N54 Twin Turbo Bolt-On upgrades, or contact directly 314-630-8950 rob.rbturbo@gmail.com for a price quote.

Last edited by Rob@RBTurbo; 09-06-2019 at 07:53 AM..
Reply With Quote
(#14)
Old
Terry @ BMS's Avatar
Terry @ BMS Terry @ BMS is offline
Tuner
 
Posts: 29,711
Join Date: Jan 2008
Default 09-06-2019, 05:26 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by BIMMIN
Can you elaborate on that? I have the RB external kit. Comes with a check valve pcv at the valve cover. But how does that keep the valve cover from pressurizing under high boost levels? I thought the issue was boost pressure going up through the head ports into the vc?

Or am I not understanding the physics of the n54 pcv system.
On Rob's kit I'd presume it works like ours with a double oring seal in the valve cover to isolate the vacuum ports from the PCV.

The problem with plugging is its a PITA to do and a PITA to reverse down the road if ever needed. People do it without issue I've just never seen the benefit.


Burger Motorsports
Home of the Worlds fastest N20s, N54s, N55s, S55s, N63s, and S63s!

It is the sole responsibility of the purchaser and installer of any BMS part to employ the correct installation techniques required to ensure the proper operation of BMS parts, and BMS disclaims any and all liability for any part failure due to improper installation or use. It is the sole responsibility of the customer to verify that the use of their vehicle and items purchased comply with federal, state and local regulations. BMS claims no legal federal, state or local certification concerning pollution controlled motor vehicles or mandated emissions requirements. BMS products labeled for use only in competition racing vehicles may only be used on competition racing vehicles operated exclusively on a closed course in conjunction with a sanctioned racing event, in accordance with all federal and state laws, and may never be operated on public roads/highways. Please click here for more information on legal requirements related to use of BMS parts.
Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump




vBulletin Skin developed by: vBStyles.com
Copyright 2007 - 2019, N54tech.com