N54Tech.com - International Turbo Racing Discussion
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Default 07-24-2018, 02:48 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by EconIsLyfe
After new coils I'll probably do a port injection kit and lpfp to get me over 500whp, ... then I'm done. ... No plans to go E85 or meth, just 93 ...lol
You will probably not hit 500 whp without ethanol, race gas, or meth. Pump gas just doesn't have the octane, no matter how much you can pump to the engine.


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Default 07-24-2018, 04:07 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by LessIsMore
You will probably not hit 500 whp without ethanol, race gas, or meth. Pump gas just doesn't have the octane, no matter how much you can pump to the engine.
On stock turbos, yes. But I'm running MMP 1k's. Mauricio has posted dynos showing 500+whp with his stage 3s (the 1ks are bigger) and Tony has posted dynos of 500+whp with his GCs, both on just 93, no meth.

Here's Tony's post: http://www.n54tech.com/forums/showthread.php?t=43716
Can't find Mauricio's, but I know I've seen it. He does reiterate Tony's claim here though: https://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1081577

What kind of gas are you running in your 535 to get 548whp? Your sig doesn't mention a meth set up

Granted, I may have just blown a piston due to too much boost and not enough fuel from the stock fuel system, so I've got basically no whp lmao.


2008 335i coupe, 6MT

JB4/BEF, DCI, MMP 1k turbos, MMP Inlets/Outlets, MMP D P, MMP CP, Tial BoV, VRSF 7" FMIC, Fuel-It! Stage 2 LPFP, Port Injection, Spec 3+ and smfw
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codesx codesx is offline
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Default 07-24-2018, 07:20 PM

Must question IATs hard.
First pull or 7th pull?
Sustainable or just a cold day on first (dyno) run?

I run 94. Many tanks. Helps, but over 400 whp, sigh.
400 maybe, but on stock turbos, not more, not without *something*.

I get that different turbos may not hit as high an IAT... still, not buying 500~ in summer on 93 or 91 after 3 pulls of 3 gears. No chance.

If proven, I buy right now.

... 1000 posts tell a tail of truth...
Brakes my cheap heart... but it's true.


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2008 335i Convertible, E93, N54, A/T (200,000+ km)
Wheels: 322 | Tires: R.275/35r18, F.245/40r18
TUNE: JB4/Trebila | 24 PSI | 100% Meth via dual BM5 | 94 Octane
BMS: JB4, Map 6 | WMI | 5" FMIC | OCC | DCI | Cowel Filters
TMAP: 3.5 barr
xHP Stage 3 (v2.0)
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RB PCV Valve
NGK 5992 Plugs @ .020

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Default 07-25-2018, 10:42 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by EconIsLyfe
On stock turbos, yes. But I'm running MMP 1k's. Mauricio has posted dynos showing 500+whp with his stage 3s (the 1ks are bigger) and Tony has posted dynos of 500+whp with his GCs, both on just 93, no meth.

Here's Tony's post: http://www.n54tech.com/forums/showthread.php?t=43716
Can't find Mauricio's, but I know I've seen it. He does reiterate Tony's claim here though: https://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1081577
I just don't think that's representative of most people will actually be able to reproduce. Its not something I would do for a DD. I think realistically that 500+ whp on pump 93 just has no room for error, too on-the-edge of detonation.

Quote:
What kind of gas are you running in your 535 to get 548whp? Your sig doesn't mention a meth set up
E60 mix (E85 + 93)

Quote:
Granted, I may have just blown a piston due to too much boost and not enough fuel from the stock fuel system, so I've got basically no whp lmao.
lol, there is that ... let us know what you find here.


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Nanometer Nanometer is offline
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Default 07-25-2018, 11:14 AM

I was reminded of another thread when I came across this question. Not in relation to performance or installation, but due to customer service.
http://www.n54tech.com/forums/showth...196#post601196


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Default 07-26-2018, 03:29 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Milan
I have no clue what Payam is talking about my 6466 car was incredible on 91, way faster than any aftermarket twin car out there. Hyrbids will never make power on pump, they don't move enough air.

I was easily taking down C6 Z06s and those cars trap like 125+ mph
What are you talking about?

Maybe TD03s wont but bigger options will. VTT just trapped 141mph on some stage 3 twins. I've done 129 with misfires on some GCs. There are the MMP 1ks that can supposedly do 1000hp with mods. Although I think cams and head work would be necessary.

Modern twins can match many singles and have the quicker spool to boot.


UK FBO 335i, GCs, JB4, PI meth, BMS CP, OCC, Braided brake lines. Diff Lockdown. TMAP sensor, custom bucketless stage2

11.79@119mph on stockers, CP meth (UK, Santa Pod)
11.74@129mph on GCs, custom port meth injection.
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Default 07-26-2018, 03:35 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by T_H_O_M_A_S
you give up some low end drivability
you get a lot of top end in return .
economy doenst go up as you are actually using a lot more power
that can only be extracted out of more fuel
Actually economy at the top end can go up with better turbos. You'll have a cooler charge from being better able to compress to air. So you'll get a more efficient burn. You make more power with the same amount of fuel from cooler, denser air than from hot air.


UK FBO 335i, GCs, JB4, PI meth, BMS CP, OCC, Braided brake lines. Diff Lockdown. TMAP sensor, custom bucketless stage2

11.79@119mph on stockers, CP meth (UK, Santa Pod)
11.74@129mph on GCs, custom port meth injection.
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Default 07-26-2018, 05:49 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by LessIsMore
I just don't think that's representative of most people will actually be able to reproduce. Its not something I would do for a DD. I think realistically that 500+ whp on pump 93 just has no room for error, too on-the-edge of detonation.
Agree, definitely not a tune I'd rock on the daily. Just for track days and maybe the occasional 3rd gear pull.

Quote:
Originally Posted by LessIsMore
lol, there is that ... let us know what you find here.
Will do man, thanks for your input on that, much appreciated


2008 335i coupe, 6MT

JB4/BEF, DCI, MMP 1k turbos, MMP Inlets/Outlets, MMP D P, MMP CP, Tial BoV, VRSF 7" FMIC, Fuel-It! Stage 2 LPFP, Port Injection, Spec 3+ and smfw
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Default 07-26-2018, 07:43 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by EconIsLyfe
Agree, definitely not a tune I'd rock on the daily. Just for track days and maybe the occasional 3rd gear pull.



Will do man, thanks for your input on that, much appreciated


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theobjectivist theobjectivist is offline
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Default 07-26-2018, 01:50 PM

Im trusting all your replies so it sounds like aftermarket TD04s are in my future.

Ive narrowed it down to the below:

RB next gens (11-Blade wheel)

Full package price - WG upgrade, high flow drains, PCV, and inlets: $3700 - $300 cores = $3400

Vargas GC 2.0

Inlets, PCV and install kit: $3300 -$150 cores = $3150


Pure Stage2 standard I dont see that they offer package deals and im uncertain if ill get charged CA sales tax

Install kit $3800 - $600 cores = $3200


The turbos and install is big money and I still have to get it tuned and upgrade the clutch.
This is all for a 60k mile 08' 535i with stock sport suspension, brakes and a peg leg rear end.....Yikes.

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Default 07-26-2018, 02:30 PM

I vote MMP Stage 3!
TD04 with a 19T 11blade compressor
$3k, no core charge (sell em on e-bay or wherever, probably get a couple hundred)
2" inlets and outlets: $400
Install kit: $150
1 yr warranty standard, 2yr if you add coated bearings ($250)

That being said, any of these options are going to blow your stock snails away!

Not a bad idea to also do your oil pan gasket, water pump, vacuum hoses, and definitely inlets done while you're down there.


2008 335i coupe, 6MT

JB4/BEF, DCI, MMP 1k turbos, MMP Inlets/Outlets, MMP D P, MMP CP, Tial BoV, VRSF 7" FMIC, Fuel-It! Stage 2 LPFP, Port Injection, Spec 3+ and smfw

Last edited by EconIsLyfe; 07-26-2018 at 02:40 PM..
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Default 07-26-2018, 02:33 PM

I think all 3 are solid choices. However I think you get more for your money with the GC 2.0: inlets included (which is a big plus, since you should do those at same time as turbo install to save labor costs), plus the GC's us a non-OEM mani and turbine which are larger and should flow more.

install is $1000 or so usually. I would do inlets at the same time, whichever turbo you go with.

stock suspension: if you have ARS, on 535i the stock susp is not bad assuming struts/shocks are still healthy. Brakes: meh, just upgrade pads. Rear end: I would schedule that as your next big upgrade, suggest MFactory helical LSD - for the money/warranty/customer service, can't be beat.


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Default 07-26-2018, 04:38 PM

Definitely RB’s. There will also be a lot of maintenance items to take care of during the install of the new turbos. Three Impressive packages for sure.
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langsbr langsbr is offline
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Default 07-28-2018, 05:04 PM

I regret buying a house 35 miles from an E85 station. That's what VP jugs are for though. :D

I would go MMP, GCs, or Pure S2. If you go Pure, get the high-flows. I would avoid RB just because of Rob's attitude.
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theobjectivist theobjectivist is offline
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Default 07-30-2018, 02:06 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by langsbr
I regret buying a house 35 miles from an E85 station. That's what VP jugs are for though. :D

I would go MMP, GCs, or Pure S2. If you go Pure, get the high-flows. I would avoid RB just because of Rob's attitude.


To be clear, you only mean that you dont like how he carries himself on the forum, right?

Theres nothing about the products that would make it a bad decision?

e.g - rejected warranty claims, slow ship dates, false info or anything?


I researched forums this weekend am leaning towards RB. The reason is that he's been sharing sales figures along with reported defects and the #s look very good. (providing he's honest)
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Default 07-30-2018, 02:12 PM

Well, it depends on the budget available. I couldn't afford Pure s2's or GC's, I went with vtt stage 2+ and I'm really happy at the moment. I had Trebila tune my car, while the tune is not yet finished because of HPFP issues, the car builds 21-22 psi of boost on pump gas, while there are still no timing drops and timing is quite steady around 5-6 degree mark. Didn't go to the dyno yet, although I can tell for sure the car doesn't care how many pulls you make, with phoenix racing 7" intercooler it just pulls hard every time.

Still some demons left to hunt as HPFP appears on it's threshold. And not because the tune asks for too much fuel, the pump is simply tired and I've been seeing it for a while but nobody has really said "you gotta swap it" or "it looks really weak" until now. Here you go a 3rd gear pull where the car misfired, the log is pretty clean except for HPFP dive causing misfires across 2nd bank. I'm not going high RPM now until I get HPFP replaced... Gas is 97 RON here. Just saying this is all possible on pump gas, you name it how much power it makes, I know it pulls pretty hard. I'm even holding the trigger on direct port meth setup because the car just got scary with new turbos and I can't even begin to imagine how well it would do on full E85
Attached Files
File Type: csv 3rd-gear-misfire.csv (8.3 KB, 61 views)

Last edited by skirmozas; 07-30-2018 at 02:16 PM.. Reason: attachment with log added
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theobjectivist theobjectivist is offline
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Default 07-30-2018, 02:18 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by LessIsMore
I think all 3 are solid choices. However I think you get more for your money with the GC 2.0: inlets included (which is a big plus, since you should do those at same time as turbo install to save labor costs), plus the GC's us a non-OEM mani and turbine which are larger and should flow more.

install is $1000 or so usually. I would do inlets at the same time, whichever turbo you go with.

stock suspension: if you have ARS, on 535i the stock susp is not bad assuming struts/shocks are still healthy. Brakes: meh, just upgrade pads. Rear end: I would schedule that as your next big upgrade, suggest MFactory helical LSD - for the money/warranty/customer service, can't be beat.


Are your GCs the version 2.0s or the prev gen?

Im researching GC lites and looks like theres been a history of badly balanced and/or bad wheels on the first gens? Dunno if was a rare problem or if the new ones have similar issues. Looks like theyre brand new design but so many posts about the old one4s are making me nervous


Ive got the ARS and it holds flat enough in the runs but the shocks/springs themselves must be totally shot. Anytime the weight gets shifted the car totally loses it's composure. e.g - a chicane style tun where you shift right, then left, then right again and the entire car shi t's itself.

Im thinking the KW v2 or bilstein pss10's coilovers are the only chance of making it right. I cant imagine how bad it'll be after i add 150 horses
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langsbr langsbr is offline
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Default 07-30-2018, 04:11 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by theobjectivist
To be clear, you only mean that you dont like how he carries himself on the forum, right?

Theres nothing about the products that would make it a bad decision?

e.g - rejected warranty claims, slow ship dates, false info or anything?


I researched forums this weekend am leaning towards RB. The reason is that he's been sharing sales figures along with reported defects and the #s look very good. (providing he's honest)
So, even if he turbos were the bestest you could buy, I wouldn't buy them simply because of his attitude on the forum.

The other issue is - how many CURRENT results have you seen from RBs? I can't name any. All I see is when someone posts their current results of other turbos, Rob will chime in and remind us all what one set of RBs did 7 years ago.

This scares me in that while yes, there are no current complaints or warranty denials, there's just no one using them. Rob attributes this to the fact that he sells tons and tons of turbos to people that don't use the internet. I get that old people don't use Facebook, and young people don't use forums, but seeing NO results is a bit worrisome. Rob's website is from 20 years ago, so maybe his customers are too.

He's "super busy" "getting orders out", yet he's never too busy to post on the forums something negative about a different vendor. Yes, Chris is around, but that's his job - he's VTT's brand ambassador or social media rep.

As far as him posting his sales numbers, that's information only from him - and you have to take him at his word. RB had a notorious issue with smokers and warranty issues in the past. Yes, in the past, but it still happened. There is someone that just posted a set of RBs with a broken turbine wheel for sale, so issues do happen.
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Alpine1 Alpine1 is offline
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Default 07-30-2018, 06:09 PM

When I got my RB Turbo Next Gen’s, I spoke w/ Rob several times by phone and email. Rob listened to my concerns and put together a package that mirrored what I wanted. After the install and tune I had Rob look over my dyno results and he was happy at the outcome. Once again good luck with your decision. Rest easy that Rob will give you genuine answers to your questions.
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N54QC N54QC is offline
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Default 07-30-2018, 07:07 PM

IMO, the smoking turbo thing is behind us. That being said, I think pure has by far the cleanest history of all the vendors. They don't have new, upcoming products all the time like other vendors. But there hp/tq numbers are really good and I've rarely seen any issues on there turbos.
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codesx codesx is offline
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Default 07-30-2018, 07:46 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by langsbr
So, even if he turbos were the bestest you could buy, I wouldn't buy them simply because of his attitude on the forum.

The other issue is - how many CURRENT results have you seen from RBs? I can't name any. All I see is when someone posts their current results of other turbos, Rob will chime in and remind us all what one set of RBs did 7 years ago.

This scares me in that while yes, there are no current complaints or warranty denials, there's just no one using them. Rob attributes this to the fact that he sells tons and tons of turbos to people that don't use the internet. I get that old people don't use Facebook, and young people don't use forums, but seeing NO results is a bit worrisome. Rob's website is from 20 years ago, so maybe his customers are too.

He's "super busy" "getting orders out", yet he's never too busy to post on the forums something negative about a different vendor. Yes, Chris is around, but that's his job - he's VTT's brand ambassador or social media rep.

As far as him posting his sales numbers, that's information only from him - and you have to take him at his word. RB had a notorious issue with smokers and warranty issues in the past. Yes, in the past, but it still happened. There is someone that just posted a set of RBs with a broken turbine wheel for sale, so issues do happen.

I do not support or agree with this information... at least not wholly...it just went too far.

I can't disagree that (from my perspective) Rob or other vendors are very passionate. There is strong voiced opinions and presented information from all sides and angles. Some are politically savvy, some are focused on knowledge and information. All will play. We need them to, or it'd be 6k for turbos... just look how close the final pricing is.

Been reading for many months, picking a direction.
I truly respect Rob's (RB) commitment and determination for quality first. He's scrappy, but that helps the prices and drives competition.

He's only been respectful and responsive in my (limited) experience.
If I bought today, that's where my coin and trust would go.

OH... and there ARE real world, current results from RB. Please don't bull ****e and bash. That's too far. Opinions are needed, but keep it clean.
Yes, built in China sells more... I'm not necessarily voting for Trump (being Canadian), but there is something to be said for home grown passion and serious determination for quality.

Sigh.


--

2008 335i Convertible, E93, N54, A/T (200,000+ km)
Wheels: 322 | Tires: R.275/35r18, F.245/40r18
TUNE: JB4/Trebila | 24 PSI | 100% Meth via dual BM5 | 94 Octane
BMS: JB4, Map 6 | WMI | 5" FMIC | OCC | DCI | Cowel Filters
TMAP: 3.5 barr
xHP Stage 3 (v2.0)
VRSF CP | HKS BOV
RB PCV Valve
NGK 5992 Plugs @ .020

Maintenance:
2018 - A/T Replaced | Plugs | Ign Coils | Walnut Blasting
2019 - Index 12 Injectors | VCG | OFHG & O-rings | Alternator w/ Clutch Pulley | Water Pump & TStat
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Rob@RBTurbo Rob@RBTurbo is offline
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Default 07-31-2018, 06:17 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alpine1
When I got my RB Turbo Next Gen’s, I spoke w/ Rob several times by phone and email. Rob listened to my concerns and put together a package that mirrored what I wanted. After the install and tune I had Rob look over my dyno results and he was happy at the outcome. Once again good luck with your decision. Rest easy that Rob will give you genuine answers to your questions.
Appreciate the support sir.

Quote:
Originally Posted by codesx
I do not support or agree with this information... at least not wholly...it just went too far.

I can't disagree that (from my perspective) Rob or other vendors are very passionate. There is strong voiced opinions and presented information from all sides and angles. Some are politically savvy, some are focused on knowledge and information. All will play. We need them to, or it'd be 6k for turbos... just look how close the final pricing is.

Been reading for many months, picking a direction.
I truly respect Rob's (RB) commitment and determination for quality first. He's scrappy, but that helps the prices and drives competition.

He's only been respectful and responsive in my (limited) experience.
If I bought today, that's where my coin and trust would go.

OH... and there ARE real world, current results from RB. Please don't bull ****e and bash. That's too far. Opinions are needed, but keep it clean.
Yes, built in China sells more... I'm not necessarily voting for Trump (being Canadian), but there is something to be said for home grown passion and serious determination for quality.

Sigh.
Well said sir, so true, and appreciate the feedback.

Rob


See www.rbturbo.com for N54 Twin Turbo Bolt-On upgrades, or contact directly 314-630-8950 rob.rbturbo@gmail.com for a price quote.
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LessIsMore LessIsMore is offline
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Default 07-31-2018, 12:13 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by theobjectivist
Are your GCs the version 2.0s or the prev gen?
GC lite 1.0's - original design (bought almost 2 yrs ago)

Quote:
Originally Posted by theobjectivist
Im researching GC lites and looks like theres been a history of badly balanced and/or bad wheels on the first gens? Dunno if was a rare problem or if the new ones have similar issues. Looks like theyre brand new design but so many posts about the old one4s are making me nervous
I was one of those whose turbine wheel failed, caused HUGE headache for me. I have posts here and on BB forum you can find about it all.

That said, I think those issues are past ,esp. with 2.0 out ... but might be too soon to say. My understanding is that they failed due to a run of badly-manufactured turbine wheels that VTT bought, since the blades literally came apart (didn't touch down or become imbalanced, like you'd expect to see from poor balancing).

Quote:
Originally Posted by theobjectivist
Ive got the ARS and it holds flat enough in the runs but the shocks/springs themselves must be totally shot. Anytime the weight gets shifted the car totally loses it's composure. e.g - a chicane style tun where you shift right, then left, then right again and the entire car shi t's itself.
Could be, I went with Koni FSD 's ,which are softer, but ARS makes up for it. might check your other suspension bits/bushings, or perhaps is the eDiff or DTC/ASC meddling? I've never felt any weirdness like you describe.


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