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Default Overheating but water pump works - 06-07-2018, 08:35 AM

Background: Mods in sig. Water pump and thermostat replaced about 35k mi ago/ 3 years ago.

Yesterday I was driving, 95* outside, engine was warm, normal cruising with no beating on it.

The yellow overheat warning came on the DIC, followed by the red one. Then it went away within a few seconds. It kept doing this - flashing red/yellow and going away - and the car was in limp mode. The JB4 water temp reading was jumping around quickly from zero or single digits to more accurate readings, i.e. 137, 143, 0, 7, 145, 0, 0, 7, 8, 7, 0, 145, etc.
Also at the same time, I got the trans gear symbol error in DIC.

I was only 3 mins from home, so limped it there. When I parked, the coolant reservoir was steaming and leaking from the cap. So it wasn't just the sensor or reading, it was actually overheating.

I had two codes:
2E83 - electrical cooling pump, low power mode
2FBE - fuel pressure after stop (not so concerned on this one, based in research, but I normally do not see this code)

I lost about a gallon of coolant but no leaks. Guess it steamed out on the drive (EDIT: actually appears it was leaking out expansion tank/cap). I refilled the coolant and performed the purge procedure. The water pump was definitely working during the purge process. This completed.

I took it for another drive for about 5 min, this time with JB4 maxcool setting enabled. Car had cooled some, so water temps started about 180. I drove normally, and the water temp quickly got to about 230-240. At this point I received the same yellow and red overheat warnings, The JB4 water temp reading was jumping between 237-245 pretty quickly.

I parked it, and again found the coolant reservoir steaming and leaking everywhere from the cap.

truobleshooting:
I found no leaks around the coolant lines, reservoir, etc.
Coolant does not appear contaminated with oil or otherwise.
I checked the fuse for the water pump (#9, 60 amp in glove box). It was not blown, but had some minor glazing on the pins and heat discoloration so I cleaned it with a wire brush.

I'm not sure if this is a water pump/thermostat problem, or a sensor problem.

I also can't understand why the JB4 was showing such strange readings when it first overheated. Bad sensor maybe?

I read that some had fixed non-working water pumps by replacing the power distribution box fuse on the battery - but my pump actually appears to still operate.

Any ideas?

** EDIT**
UPDATE/SOLVED:
The issue was the thermostat failed CLOSED. No flow through radiator.
Block pressure test performed just in case, and was good.

Recap for the search results:
Thermostat and water pump were both 3 yrs/~35K miles old (I think was the ECS Whaler thermostat/VDO water pump kit, not the genuine BMW kit.)Overheating started with no prior symptoms. When parked idling or driving at city speeds, the engine would overheat quickly. When driving at highway speeds, the engine would overheat much more slowly, but never actually stop rising. Only code I received was a '2E83 - electrical cooling pump, low power mode'. And that code did not appear every time it overheated. I got odd coolant temp readings on the JB4 once it got over 250*F but I think that's just how the sensors are, both old and new did that). Replacing the coolant temp sensor and leaking expansion tank with new did not help. Thermostat failed close, replaced that and water pump, and good to go again.


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Last edited by LessIsMore; 06-18-2018 at 11:56 AM..
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Default 06-07-2018, 08:55 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by LessIsMore
.

I had two codes:
2E83 - electrical cooling pump, low power mode
2FBE - fuel pressure after stop (not so concerned on this one, based in research, but I normally do not see this code)

Any ideas?
How old is the battery?


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Default 06-07-2018, 09:57 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by 08 335Ci
How old is the battery?
Less than 6 months old.


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Default 06-08-2018, 04:37 AM

There isn't enough volts to run the pump at full capacity, or the pump may be failing. More than likely it's the voltage, these pumps take full power to operate.
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Default 06-08-2018, 08:09 AM

35k I would suspect the pump


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Default 06-08-2018, 08:17 AM

The electric pump on my dad's N52 went out with less than 25k miles, so anything is possible.

As far as the power, did you check all of the power delivery from distro all the way to the pump? I thought I also read once the pump will go into a reduced state if it gets too hot (ironically).

Other than sensor or t-stat issues, maybe a clog somewhere in the system or radiator?
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Default 06-08-2018, 01:18 PM

Anytime e pumps fail, it's a nightmare. Since the pump is 6 months, seems to be power supply. I have 109k on my n52, original pump, knock,knock!
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Default 06-08-2018, 05:25 PM

You'll know if it's a failed thermostat if the upper radiator hose is miles hotter than the lower radiator hose. Most fail open though, mine didn't so that was the case.
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Default 06-08-2018, 08:12 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by JuniorB
There isn't enough volts to run the pump at full capacity, or the pump may be failing. More than likely it's the voltage, these pumps take full power to operate.
Ok, makes sense, but what is likely to cause a low voltage to WP? Low battery has never manifested this way before.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vorsprung_CJB
...
As far as the power, did you check all of the power delivery from distro all the way to the pump? I thought I also read once the pump will go into a reduced state if it gets too hot (ironically).

Other than sensor or t-stat issues, maybe a clog somewhere in the system or radiator?
Where would i want to test for voltage?
Not heard about the pump overheating, thanks.
OK, I'm not sure how it could have become clogged, but radiator is orig afaik, so could be ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by JuniorB
Anytime e pumps fail, it's a nightmare. Since the pump is 6 months, seems to be power supply. I have 109k on my n52, original pump, knock,knock!
Pump and tstat are 3 yrs, 33k miles old ... not 6 months ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ancient8989
You'll know if it's a failed thermostat if the upper radiator hose is miles hotter than the lower radiator hose. Most fail open though, mine didn't so that was the case.
ha, cant believe i didnt think of that - thanks, will check tomorrow morning.


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Default 06-10-2018, 08:05 PM

update:*
new coolant temp sensor
new expansion tank (suspected a leak)

Its still overheating just idling - steadily rises to 250 F then got yellow overheat warning and shut down immediately.
still throwing 2E83.*
Have not seen strange readings after replacing temp sensor.

Looks like Im not getting out of this without replacing the pump after all! Ordered from FCP Euro for their lifetime warranty (wish i had the first time). Will be here Thurs.

Dont have real reason to suspect wiring/power to pump at this point?


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Default 06-11-2018, 06:38 AM

Use INPA to test the pump - you can manually run it at different %'s of load.

The pump in my daily X5 wouldn't run above 50% speed and displayed the same symptoms as you.


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Default 06-11-2018, 12:31 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by str8shot
Use INPA to test the pump - you can manually run it at different %'s of load.

The pump in my daily X5 wouldn't run above 50% speed and displayed the same symptoms as you.
Thanks- Did not know realize INPA had that functionality TBH - will try that this afternoon.


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Default 06-12-2018, 09:43 AM

Ran the INPA testing of the water pump modes (5%, 25%, 50%, 95%) and performed the Water Pump Bleed process while watching INPA reflect the nominal vs actual flow #'s realtime. Everything was good and green, and output was right inline with nominal.

I did all this water pump testing back to back, so gave it a throrough workout and it did not start underperforming. This seems to imply the power / voltage supply is good.


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Default 06-12-2018, 06:53 PM

It's good hat you have power and are able to run a funtion test. This also shows the pump is working with plenty of power. So, if it's still getting hot with a good pump, there still may be a flow problem,or radiator. With the thermostat open,all your hoses should be the same degree, all hot. The best way to do this is with a temp gun.
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Default 06-13-2018, 11:04 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by JuniorB
It's good hat you have power and are able to run a funtion test. This also shows the pump is working with plenty of power. So, if it's still getting hot with a good pump, there still may be a flow problem,or radiator. With the thermostat open,all your hoses should be the same degree, all hot. The best way to do this is with a temp gun.
Agreed, was pleasantly surprised to see the WP functioning well.
The lower radiator hose stays significantly cooler than the upper one. I assume that is normal until the thermostat opens ...
Above 180* or so I can fee the lower radiator hose warming up more, but doesn't ever get quite as hot as the upper. The upper hose I do feel pressure, and if I squeeze it can feel the push/surge, like I'd expect. Lower hose, I do not feel any pressure (not sure if I should though).
I have a temp gun but haven't used it yet ... a good idea though, will do so tonight.

I never had a blocked/clogged radiator in my life over several cars ... I have not explored that possibility TBH. Would a pressure test of the cooling system be able to identify a clogged radiator or clog in the system anywhere? I know it will find a leak, just not sure how I can identify if something is clogged.


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Last edited by LessIsMore; 06-13-2018 at 11:12 AM..
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Default 06-18-2018, 08:47 AM

UPDATE/SOLVED:
The issue was the thermostat failed CLOSED. No flow through radiator.
Block pressure test performed just in case, and was good.

Recap for the search results:
Thermostat and water pump were both 3 yrs/~35K miles old (I think was the ECS Whaler thermostat/VDO water pump kit, not the genuine BMW kit.)Overheating started with no prior symptoms. When parked idling or driving at city speeds, the engine would overheat quickly. When driving at highway speeds, the engine would overheat much more slowly, but never actually stop rising. Only code I received was a '2E83 - electrical cooling pump, low power mode'. And that code was not consistent every time it overheated. I got odd coolant temp readings on the JB4 once it got over 150*F but I think that's just how the sensors are, both old and new did that). Replacing the coolant temp sensor and leaking expansion tank with new did not help. Thermostat failed close, replaced that and water pump, and good to go again.


2017 AMG C63 -JB4
2009 535i - 548whp - sold

Last edited by LessIsMore; 06-18-2018 at 09:25 AM..
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