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Terry @ BMS's Avatar
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Default Dodson DCT Clutch Testing - 03-29-2015, 09:41 PM

Hey guys,

We were finally able to find time to pickup our 2015 M3 DCT from PURE Turbo to test out the new Dodson clutch packs. The car is equipped with PURE S2 turbos, JB4, ER *****, and a meth injection kit. The clutch packs run around $3200 installed.

I'll be testing these at Shift Sector and No Fly Zone 1/2 mile events at the end of April but I was able to do a little advance testing on a private track. So far, no DCT slippage shifting at up to 29psi. And the shifts feel firm and crisp. The OEM clutch packs would slip at around 26psi. So definite improvement. During routine driving the clutch packs feel like stock. The only hint of a difference is when you're coming to a stop and the car shifts in to 1st or when putting it in gear. I hear and feel a subtle jolt as it shifts in to 1st.

My new problem: Traction. Especially in 3rd gear. Even with Toyo R888s out back. Fortunately I've recently added 3rd gear boost limiting to the JB4 which was just what the doctor ordered for 60-130 testing.

Without the limiting at 29psi it was spin city in 3rd. Same goes for 26psi. So for my last run I limited boost in 3rd by 5psi, down to 21psi, which made for improved traction and .2ths quicker 60-130 over my spin city 29psi run!

This is on 50% meth (boost juice) and 94 octane fuel, full weight, so the car will get faster when I find the time to go get a clean 30psi run in. Up next I promised Jesse some 91 and 93 octane tuning so I'll work on that and get back to 60-130 stuff in a couple weeks.
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Default 03-29-2015, 09:50 PM

Damn that's exciting news! I'm SOOO pumped to see the clutch packs on stock flash holding more boost


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Default 03-29-2015, 11:59 PM

Very nice Terry


F21 M140i - 100-200: 6.95
Audi TTRS - 100-200: 4.47 60-130: 5.16
F80 M3 - 100-200: 4.45, 60-130: 5.1
F20 M135i (sold) - 100-200: 6.26 , 60-130: 7.4
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Default 03-30-2015, 02:07 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Newguy123
Damn that's exciting news! I'm SOOO pumped to see the clutch packs on stock flash holding more boost
I guess I can imagine why I am considering F80 M3 DCT with pure stage2 and clutch upgrade as well in the future depending how testing works out. But that will be a year or 2 still with the F20 and stage2 turbo first


F21 M140i - 100-200: 6.95
Audi TTRS - 100-200: 4.47 60-130: 5.16
F80 M3 - 100-200: 4.45, 60-130: 5.1
F20 M135i (sold) - 100-200: 6.26 , 60-130: 7.4
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Default 03-30-2015, 08:47 AM

I agree with Newguy. This is a big deal for us DCT folks!
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Default 03-30-2015, 09:11 AM

Congrats on the new performance Terry. We need more traction


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morkusyambo morkusyambo is offline
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Default 03-30-2015, 09:53 AM

Very cool. Can't wait to see the Pure Turbo pump gas numbers with no slippage.
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Default 03-30-2015, 04:01 PM

Nice! Time for the 1/4 mile now too.. you know you have to go quicker and faster than me now
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Default 03-30-2015, 04:26 PM

LM are you the E90 M3 record holder?


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Default 03-30-2015, 04:51 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Terry @ BMS
LM are you the E90 M3 record holder?
close, im now 2nd overall, and 1st for unmodified S/C E9x kit, the other guy ran 10psi in -1500DA to a 10.46@135, to my -450DA, 7.5 PSI 10.54@132(133best)
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black335i black335i is offline
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Default 03-30-2015, 06:42 PM

Glad to see the new cluth kit is working. Any update on possible flashes to allow the stock dct to hold more power?
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Default 03-30-2015, 07:21 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by black335i
Glad to see the new cluth kit is working. Any update on possible flashes to allow the stock dct to hold more power?
It's not something we're currently pursuing. Pulling the DME on this platform isn't something I see as viable for our customer base. Maybe down the road when OBDII flashing is available we'll develop a back end flash map.


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morkusyambo morkusyambo is offline
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Default 03-31-2015, 06:32 AM

I am one of those not interested in pulling the DME and/or mailing it somewhere. This is not due to laziness or lack of technical know-how, as I created 50+ maps using cobb accessrace software on my boosted RX8. The point is flashing is still an ass pain for our cars, assuming you live close enough to one of the shops currently offering it. Add in the extra cost and lack of control as an end user and its all a non-starter for me.

The current generation of piggyback tech is more than sufficient for +4/5 psi while still retaining stock performance and smoothness, especially with the excellent customer support provided by Terry and the gang at burger.

Show me an OBDII flash solution I can use myself at home and then i'll be interested. Till then its piggyback for me.
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Default 03-31-2015, 10:17 PM

What kind of PSI was the M5 running to get low 7 second 60-130 times?
I assume it was lower than 26psi?


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Default OEM DCT Clutch: - 04-04-2015, 05:06 PM

I really appreciate that Terry and Pure are making progress with the DCT transmissions and giving us options. It was this thread that finally made me decide to keep my 135i DCT and plan on taking it up to Pure to get their Stage 2 turbo installed ASAP. I can thank Newguy123 that I still have it and for telling me "it's a keeper." Now I just have to get enough of a break in my work schedule to get up to Pure during the week.

I also started looking around on RealOEM and was shocked to learn that my 135i, the new M3/M4, and the M5's all have exactly the same part number for the Dual Clutch. In other words, they all share the same clutch! The part number is: 28407842841.
Here are the links:

135i: http://www.realoem.com/bmw/showparts...07&hg=28&fg=15
M3/M4: http://www.realoem.com/bmw/showparts...20&hg=28&fg=15
M5: http://www.realoem.com/bmw/showparts...13&hg=28&fg=15

So, if I got this correct, my little 135i shares the same dual clutch as a 1000+ pound heavier M5!

Interestingly, all three cars have unique Mechatronics units, but the cable harness is identical between all three transmissions. Makes me wonder how these Mechtronics units work and if they are interchangeable? I'll bet all three of these transmissions are extremely similar, given that they all have the same OEM clutch. I love parts bin cars. The future of these DCT transmissions looks promising.

Last edited by Stress; 04-04-2015 at 05:20 PM..
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andym3100k andym3100k is offline
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Default 04-05-2015, 07:14 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by hotrod182
What kind of PSI was the M5 running to get low 7 second 60-130 times?
I assume it was lower than 26psi?
Should be around 21.5 to 22.5psi, anything more than that will slow the car down at higher speed.


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Default 04-05-2015, 12:31 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stress
I really appreciate that Terry and Pure are making progress with the DCT transmissions and giving us options. It was this thread that finally made me decide to keep my 135i DCT and plan on taking it up to Pure to get their Stage 2 turbo installed ASAP. I can thank Newguy123 that I still have it and for telling me "it's a keeper." Now I just have to get enough of a break in my work schedule to get up to Pure during the week.

I also started looking around on RealOEM and was shocked to learn that my 135i, the new M3/M4, and the M5's all have exactly the same part number for the Dual Clutch. In other words, they all share the same clutch! The part number is: 28407842841.
Here are the links:

135i: http://www.realoem.com/bmw/showparts...07&hg=28&fg=15
M3/M4: http://www.realoem.com/bmw/showparts...20&hg=28&fg=15
M5: http://www.realoem.com/bmw/showparts...13&hg=28&fg=15

So, if I got this correct, my little 135i shares the same dual clutch as a 1000+ pound heavier M5!

Interestingly, all three cars have unique Mechatronics units, but the cable harness is identical between all three transmissions. Makes me wonder how these Mechtronics units work and if they are interchangeable? I'll bet all three of these transmissions are extremely similar, given that they all have the same OEM clutch. I love parts bin cars. The future of these DCT transmissions looks promising.
thats good to know i plan on doing my clutches eventually...who installs them though?


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Default 04-05-2015, 01:10 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by hotrod182
What kind of PSI was the M5 running to get low 7 second 60-130 times?
I assume it was lower than 26psi?
The M5 is a larger motor, of course, but around 22psi peak. On the same private track (less than 1% slope, 1000' DA) it ran 7.4s at around 650whp. With all the extra weight traction was not an issue starting the runs. Unlike the M3 where I need to really limit boost in 3rd to get going.


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It is the sole responsibility of the purchaser and installer of any BMS part to employ the correct installation techniques required to ensure the proper operation of BMS parts, and BMS disclaims any and all liability for any part failure due to improper installation or use. It is the sole responsibility of the customer to verify that the use of their vehicle and items purchased comply with federal, state and local regulations. BMS claims no legal federal, state or local certification concerning pollution controlled motor vehicles or mandated emissions requirements. BMS products labeled for use only in competition racing vehicles may only be used on competition racing vehicles operated exclusively on a closed course in conjunction with a sanctioned racing event, in accordance with all federal and state laws, and may never be operated on public roads/highways. Please click here for more information on legal requirements related to use of BMS parts.
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Default 04-05-2015, 01:13 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stress
I really appreciate that Terry and Pure are making progress with the DCT transmissions and giving us options. It was this thread that finally made me decide to keep my 135i DCT and plan on taking it up to Pure to get their Stage 2 turbo installed ASAP.
I've heard they are the same from some sources then heard from others who claimed to have inspected each that they are different. So I'm not really sure on that front. Since the M5 is so heavy I'm sure the DCT computer is running maximum clamping force on it. Something we can't do with the M3 at least not currently.

Vivid Racing claims to resell a device that flashes the transmission computer via the OBDII. And that may improve holding force. I'll try it at some point in the future just so I know if its legitimate or not.


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Default 04-06-2015, 09:44 PM

Nice cold weather at the private track so took a couple runs. Best of which were 6.9s on a 2.5% slope, 7.3s on a 1% slope. For the first time in a few years the VBOX SD card decided to crap out so it wouldn't save the runs. Oh well. Next time.

The limiting factor continues to be traction. Even with R888s @ 28psi tire pressure. I recently added a function to the absolute maps that limits boost to +12psi over stock. Which I think was the last missing piece to working well with the factory traction control system. Now when DTC reduces target the JB4 follows along with that request. This coupled with the new 3rd gear user adjustable reduction factor has made a positive difference in the 60-130 times. But at the end of the day I need to come up with a better set of tires for this thing...
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It is the sole responsibility of the purchaser and installer of any BMS part to employ the correct installation techniques required to ensure the proper operation of BMS parts, and BMS disclaims any and all liability for any part failure due to improper installation or use. It is the sole responsibility of the customer to verify that the use of their vehicle and items purchased comply with federal, state and local regulations. BMS claims no legal federal, state or local certification concerning pollution controlled motor vehicles or mandated emissions requirements. BMS products labeled for use only in competition racing vehicles may only be used on competition racing vehicles operated exclusively on a closed course in conjunction with a sanctioned racing event, in accordance with all federal and state laws, and may never be operated on public roads/highways. Please click here for more information on legal requirements related to use of BMS parts.
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335iMspizzle 335iMspizzle is offline
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Default 04-07-2015, 10:36 AM

So the clutches were around 1900 + labor ? How many hours of labor they charged ? Thanks !


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Default 04-07-2015, 11:16 AM

I think PURE said retail runs $3200 for everything. Check with them for exact pricing.


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It is the sole responsibility of the purchaser and installer of any BMS part to employ the correct installation techniques required to ensure the proper operation of BMS parts, and BMS disclaims any and all liability for any part failure due to improper installation or use. It is the sole responsibility of the customer to verify that the use of their vehicle and items purchased comply with federal, state and local regulations. BMS claims no legal federal, state or local certification concerning pollution controlled motor vehicles or mandated emissions requirements. BMS products labeled for use only in competition racing vehicles may only be used on competition racing vehicles operated exclusively on a closed course in conjunction with a sanctioned racing event, in accordance with all federal and state laws, and may never be operated on public roads/highways. Please click here for more information on legal requirements related to use of BMS parts.
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Default 04-07-2015, 11:35 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Terry @ BMS
I think PURE said retail runs $3200 for everything. Check with them for exact pricing.
I def need those for a little extra power I want. There's actually a BMW performance shop that are dealers for dodson, they will quote me.


2014 - M6 f06, FabWorx Ctlss **'s, JB4, FSB meth, Turner Exhaust.
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Default 04-08-2015, 05:46 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Terry @ BMS
Nice cold weather at the private track so took a couple runs. Best of which were 6.9s on a 2.5% slope, 7.3s on a 1% slope. For the first time in a few years the VBOX SD card decided to crap out so it wouldn't save the runs. Oh well. Next time.

The limiting factor continues to be traction. Even with R888s @ 28psi tire pressure. I recently added a function to the absolute maps that limits boost to +12psi over stock. Which I think was the last missing piece to working well with the factory traction control system. Now when DTC reduces target the JB4 follows along with that request. This coupled with the new 3rd gear user adjustable reduction factor has made a positive difference in the 60-130 times. But at the end of the day I need to come up with a better set of tires for this thing...
SWEET!

I suggest you try out the Defiv Diff lockdown kit as well. He makes a TI version to counteract the weight, but it also nicely firmed up the shifts when i first installed it last year

also, think about carrying a few SD cards, mine has been experiencing not saving all the runs either. As well as checking to make sure the cards "lock" is not worn out and sliding from writable to "locked" when pushing it into the vbox
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Peter @ Pure's Avatar
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Default 04-08-2015, 07:09 AM

gratz on the 6.9


F21 M140i - 100-200: 6.95
Audi TTRS - 100-200: 4.47 60-130: 5.16
F80 M3 - 100-200: 4.45, 60-130: 5.1
F20 M135i (sold) - 100-200: 6.26 , 60-130: 7.4
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