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jcrout7992 jcrout7992 is offline
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Default CX-5 Poor engine performance in cold weather - 01-05-2022, 12:16 AM

In case you guys aren’t aware, turbo CX-5’s notice a huge drop in power in 1st and 2nd gear when the ambient temperature drops below 20 degrees Fahrenheit. This happens regardless of engine operating temp, and does not involve traction control. I’ve attached a log of a couple 0-70 runs in my CX-5 during a dry 17 degree Fahrenheit night. The first run was Map 0 and the 2nd was Map 1. Let me know if you have any questions or would like additional logs. Thanks
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File Type: csv P3_M0_R3_220103_2353.csv (25.3 KB, 60 views)

Last edited by jcrout7992; 01-05-2022 at 12:18 AM.. Reason: Forgot to specify it’s only in 1st and 2nd gear.
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Default 01-05-2022, 09:16 AM

Looks like ECU is requesting low boost there. We might be able to address that later in the JB4 via an IAT spoof.
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Default 01-05-2022, 09:58 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Terry @ BMS
Looks like ECU is requesting low boost there. We might be able to address that later in the JB4 via an IAT spoof.
Terry,
Thanks for the quick reply. Any idea as to why Mazda would program the ECU to do that?
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Default 01-07-2022, 10:56 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by jcrout7992
Terry,
Thanks for the quick reply. Any idea as to why Mazda would program the ECU to do that?
I still think this is a load issue and not IAT. Your log shows load still achieving 20 which is 200 g/s.

Could you provide a log of a 3rd gear pull and it will be easier to graph the load and throttle over RPM to show the correlation?

Place the transmission into "manual mode" and turn traction control off to eliminate the kick down switch. That is the easiest way to do a 3rd gear pull log.

This is interesting!

*EDIT* Since you said it only happens in 1st and 2nd, then log in that gear. I am assuming you feel everything is fine by 3rd.

Last edited by tymwalk; 01-07-2022 at 11:07 AM..
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Default 01-07-2022, 01:02 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Terry @ BMS
We might be able to address that later in the JB4 via an IAT spoof.
I'm not suggesting that IAT spoof wouldn't resolve the issue but I think the throttle cut could be managed with a MAF interceptor on the CX-5. The JB4 could keep the load value suppressed if it is load cutting the throttle in 1st and 2nd.
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Default 01-07-2022, 01:11 PM

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Originally Posted by tymwalk
I still think this is a load issue and not IAT. Your log shows load still achieving 20 which is 200 g/s.
Please explain that entire sentence in laymanís terms.
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Default 01-07-2022, 02:05 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by jcrout7992
Please explain that entire sentence in layman’s terms.
I originally missed the part about you only experiencing issues in 1st and 2nd gear. I saw that in third gear you had as much power as the ECU is going to allow so I didn't see an issue. In the JB4 logs, the LOAD column is your MAF sensors output. Multiply it by 10 for it to be scaled correctly. The JB4 for whatever reason gives the value at 0.1x what it should be. None of this is really important.

Modern turbocharged cars take the pedal position and other factors to determine a target torque value for the engine. That target torque is then equated to a boost target. Each gear has a target torque value versus RPM. Terry says that it may need an IAT spoof so that the ECU doesn't lower the target torque when a threshold LOW IAT value is met. Your throttle position in 1st and 2nd gear is controlling the boost target and the car expects to see a specific value of MAF (g/s) versus throttle position.

I am suggesting that when the V1 Mazda JB4 is equipped with a MAF sensor that the MAF values could be intercepted to tell the ECU to open the throttle to achieve the desire torque values even if they are LOW IAT limited.

This is all guessing at how the ECU logic operates until someone cracks the 2.5T ECU for all tables.

*EDIT*
Pedal down -> Torque Table (TEMP TOO COLD) -> Lower Boost Target

or

Pedal down -> Torque Table -> Boost Target -> MAF Limiter -> Throttle cut
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Default 01-07-2022, 02:41 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by tymwalk
I'm not suggesting that IAT spoof wouldn't resolve the issue but I think the throttle cut could be managed with a MAF interceptor on the CX-5. The JB4 could keep the load value suppressed if it is load cutting the throttle in 1st and 2nd.
The MAF just gives the airflow reading back to the ECU. You need the ECU to change it's target to something higher. IAT spoof probably the only external fix.


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Default 01-07-2022, 02:51 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Terry @ BMS
The MAF just gives the airflow reading back to the ECU. You need the ECU to change it's target to something higher. IAT spoof probably the only external fix.
Terry,
Can the IAT Spoof be achieved with the current CX-5 set-up or will it need a MAF connection first?
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Default 01-16-2022, 04:34 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by jcrout7992
Terry,
Thanks for the quick reply. Any idea as to why Mazda would program the ECU to do that?
Ask your local dealer about the TSB regarding this. Looks like Mazda is willing to fix this issue.
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Default 01-16-2022, 08:58 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by tymwalk
Ask your local dealer about the TSB regarding this. Looks like Mazda is willing to fix this issue.
Where did you see a TSB on this? Previous queries from myself and other CX5 forum members havenít produced anything.
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Default 01-17-2022, 05:40 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by jcrout7992
Where did you see a TSB on this? Previous queries from myself and other CX5 forum members havenít produced anything.
This is not a public TSB and looks to be very recent. Ask for the Mazda technician to look in the Mazda service info for TSB 01-016/21 Lack of power when accelerating in cold temperatures. Issue date December 17 2021

An employee of a repair center saw the TSB and sent it out as a heads up.
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Default 01-17-2022, 09:48 AM

Interesting, probably an IAT mapping issue as suspected.


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Default 01-17-2022, 02:15 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by tymwalk
This is not a public TSB and looks to be very recent. Ask for the Mazda technician to look in the Mazda service info for TSB 01-016/21 Lack of power when accelerating in cold temperatures. Issue date December 17 2021

An employee of a repair center saw the TSB and sent it out as a heads up.
Iím scheduled for the TSB repair this Thursday. Iíll let you know how it shakes out. Thanks again for the info! If this fixes it, itís going to make a lot of CX-5 owners happy.
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Default 01-17-2022, 04:00 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by jcrout7992
Iím scheduled for the TSB repair this Thursday. Iíll let you know how it shakes out. Thanks again for the info! If this fixes it, itís going to make a lot of CX-5 owners happy.
Yes, please let us know if it works. The TSB reads like it will remove the 0F temperature requirement for full power but that any wheel spin (ice) will still lower power as normal.

The TSB reads like Mazda assumed that anywhere below 0F means that the road is a solid piece of ice... Lol
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Default 01-20-2022, 12:49 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by tymwalk
Yes, please let us know if it works. The TSB reads like it will remove the 0F temperature requirement for full power but that any wheel spin (ice) will still lower power as normal.

The TSB reads like Mazda assumed that anywhere below 0F means that the road is a solid piece of ice... Lol
The TSB definitely fixed the problem:
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Default 01-20-2022, 05:30 PM

Have a new cold weather log to compare with?


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Default 01-20-2022, 06:38 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Terry @ BMS
Have a new cold weather log to compare with?
I pulled the JB4 before bringing it in for the TSB. Not sure when/if Iíll have time to reinstall. My new car is arriving in the next couple weeks. Do I have to make the connection at the intercooler to pull a log?
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Default 01-21-2022, 11:32 AM

No just the yellow connection to the top of the engine and OBDII for logging map0.


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Default 01-21-2022, 11:36 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Terry @ BMS
No just the yellow connection to the top of the engine and OBDII for logging map0.
Not a problem then! Iíll hook it up and pull a log tonight when it drops back into the teens.
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Default 01-21-2022, 11:14 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Terry @ BMS
No just the yellow connection to the top of the engine and OBDII for logging map0.
Terry,
Here you go. This was taken at 16 degrees Fahrenheit.
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File Type: csv P3_M0_R2_220121_2325.csv (11.1 KB, 61 views)
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Default 01-22-2022, 11:42 AM

Looks much better! I'll update the firmware to allow logging of IAT below 32f next update.


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