[Steve @ BMS/Fuel-It!]

UPDATE: The TBI kits have been released so the first post of this thread will contain all the information on the kits that are available for the N55. If you have an N54, please see the thread in the N54 section for information on that platform. The second post in this thread will contain all the installation guides, setup information, and videos. We will continue to update those as time goes on.

Q & A:

Where can these be purchased?

The N55 version of these kits can be purchased by following this link. Do not use this link to purchase a kit for your N54, please see the Fuel-It! Throttlebody Injection thread in the N54 section of this forum.

N55 E-Series:

http://www.fuel-it.biz/n55-e-series-tbi-options/

N55 F-Series:

http://www.fuel-it.biz/n55-f-series-tbi-options/

Do I have to run a JB4 to run TBI?

No, the TBI system is controlled independently with the Hobb's switch. However, we do recommend running a JB4 because you have additional flexibility with adjusting your trims by adjusting the Fuel Open Loop (FOL) up or down. If you are running a flash only tune, you or your tuner may have to adjust your "scalars" to accommodate the additional fueling. Contact us with any questions about this.

What is throttlebody injection (TBI)?

TBI is a spacer that is installed between your stock throttlebody and the intake manifold that injects atomized fuel in to the air stream prior to it going in to the cylinder.

Where does it get the fuel from?

A plug and play connection is supplied with each kit that taps in to the stock low pressure fuel system.

How is it controlled?

Each kit comes with a Hobb's switch that can be installed in a meth bung on your charge pipe. These are boost pressure activated switches that provide a ground signal to the solenoid and turn it on while under boost. We offer 2 options for the Hobb's switch, a 4psi and a 15psi. Both switches can be adjusted up or down approx. 3 or 4psi.

Which Hobb's switch do I choose?

If your turbos can not hold boost of atleast 15psi to redline, then we would suggest sticking with the 4psi Hobb's switch. If they can and may be a little slower spooling, then we would recommend the 15psi Hobb's switch.

Do I have to run a flash with this?

When running high concentrations of ethanol, it is best to run a Backend Flash (BEF) if available to take advantage of the additional octane. However it may not be required as the added fueling will help to compensate for the additional fueling demand when running E85. If you are running a JB4, you need to have the FF (Flex Fuel) wires installed. For the E-series as we get more logs from actual users, we will begin posting BEF's for use with this system. When running a Cobb, we will be able to post recommendations but we will not be able to provide you with maps as those are locked and will require Access Tuner Race to modify your own map or a custom map from the tuner of your choice.

How much additional fuel does TBI supply?

Approximately 1 liter per minute of highly atomized fuel.

How much additional power will this support beyond what the HPFP can provide?

Approximately 15-20% more fueling capacity or approximately 70-100whp on various mixes of ethanol. All of these numbers will vary based on target AFR's, fuel being used, and the condition of your stock HPFP. The F-series HPFP does not perform as well as the E-series, so overall numbers will be lower on those cars and fueling is even more critical.

What additional mods are needed?

You must have an upgraded Low Pressure Fuel Pump (LPFP). When running E85 we recommend our Stage 2 pump assembly. They can be found here:

E-Series:
http://www.fuel-it.biz/n55-135i-e8x-...grade-options/

F-Series:
http://www.fuel-it.biz/f-series-stag...grade-options/

What additional information do I need to know before deciding to run TBI?

• You can not run the stock airbox without modifying it. We recommend running the a BMS intake and the entire stock airbox must be removed.
  
• It is very important that you install all of the fuel fittings correctly and verify they have seated properly! Please see the video in the second post of this thread.
  
• These kits are for track use only and do not meet emissions requirements.
  
• Purchase the correct kit for your N54 or N55, the throttlebody bolts are different between the two. (See the Fuel-It! Throttlebody Injection thread in the N54 section for information on that platform)
  
• Always verify all your fuel connections after your installation is completed and verify there are no leaks or loose fittings.
  
• If you run meth with these kits for IAT control, we recommend running a very small nozzle.
  
• On the N55 the bronze kit includes 2 options:
• Option A: has a short fuel line and requires the removal of the intake manifold to install
• Option B: has a longer fuel line and does not require the intake manifold to be removed. The fuel solenoid is then installed under the driver's foot well.
  
• At this time, the Bronze kit is the only available option for the F-series cars.

There are four options available for the E-Series N55.

Bronze:

These are the basic kits that fit virtually all N55's and they include:

• Throttlebody spacer
• Fuel solenoid
• Adapter and fuel line to connect to the factory fuel line
• Hobb's switch to activate system under boost
• Wiring harness
• New bolts for the throttle body to install the spacer
• Plug and play integration

Bronze Option A


Bronze Option B


Silver:

These kits have an upgraded fuel line that replace the stock line from the tank to the HPFP hardline in the engine bay. These kits are only available for the 135i and 335i E-series N55 equipped cars at this time and these kits include:

Silver kit inludes:

• Throttlebody spacer
• Fuel solenoid
• New upgraded fuel line to replace the factory fuel lines to the tank
• Hobb's switch to activate system under boost
• Wiring harness
• New bolts for the throttle body to install the spacer
• Plug and play integration

Gold:

The in addition to the upgraded fuel line, the Gold kits include and in line ethanol sensor. You must have an analyzer to read the ethanol content and the Platinum kit includes a JB4 integrated analyzer. These kits are only available for the 135i and 335i N54 equipped cars at this time and these kits include:

• Throttlebody spacer
• Fuel solenoid
• New upgraded fuel lines to replace the factory fuel lines and add the ethanol sensor
• New Continental ethanol sensor (requires analyzer to read ethanol content)
• Hobb's switch to activate system under boost
• Wiring harness
• New bolts for the throttle body to install the spacer
• Plug and play integration

Platinum

These kits include everything in the Gold kit but also include the JB4 integrated analyzer. This enables you to see the actual ethanol content on your JB4 Mobile Connect Kit or in your JB4 interface software under the "meth" readout. These kits are only available for the 135i and 335i E-Series N55 equipped cars at this time and these kits include:

Platinum kit includes:

• Throttlebody spacer
• Fuel solenoid
• New upgraded fuel lines to replace the factory fuel lines and add the ethanol sensor
• New Continental ethanol sensor (requires analyzer to read ethanol content)
• Analyzer for integration with Burger Motorsports' JB4 or other devices that accept a 0-5 volt input. If you are using your meth input on the JB4, you can not install this analyzer with out installing an additional switch as they both use the same input on the JB4 wiring harness. (Pin 16)
• Hobb's switch to activate system under boost
• Wiring harness
• New bolts for the throttle body to install the spacer
• Plug and play integration

Email me at steve@fuel-it.com with any additional questions or with logs to be reviewed.

[Steve @ BMS/Fuel-It!]

Installation guides, pictures, and videos:

The TBI installation guide:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/c1sk9doa1t...stall.pdf?dl=0

There have been a couple changes with the release version of the kit and we will update the installation guide as soon as possible but they are pretty straight forward.

• The "Tee" fitting on the TBI spacer now goes on the top for all platforms.
• The ground wire from the solenoid goes straight to the Hobb's switch, no addition pigtail is needed or supplied.
• We now supply a quick connect for the power wire, this can be connected to the same power wire the JB4 uses in the DME box or any 12V switched power source.
• The ethanol analyzer no longer has 2 ground wires and only has one ground wire that is installed at the ethanol sensor. (Not available for the F-series at this time)

Overview and installation guide:



Index for the overview and installation guide...



Installing quick connect fittings:



Description of fuel lines and connections for those installing a Gold kit:



Description of fuel lines and connections for those installing a Silver kit:



Installing a JB4 integrated analyzer:



Installing the ethanol sensor:

Part 1


Part 2


Part 3


Part 4


Part 5


http://www.n54tech.com/forums/attach...5&d=1439820466

For those that are running a backend flash, here is a link to an excel file that includes our recommended fuel and scalar tables for use with TBI. If you request Access Tuner Race from Cobb (https://cobbtuning.wufoo.com/forms/x11rf1dk0lvuln5/) you can copy and paste our values to your backend flash for use with TBI.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/gr05zh7zjc...bles.xlsx?dl=0

For those without access to ATR (since you can no longer download it), we have attached the flashes with the decayed scalar values, 12.2:1 AFR targets, and increased torque limits.

[Peter @ Pure]

I can say the TBI works like a charm! Have it on the car now for 4/5 months. Couldnt be more happy!

[M-terkait]

I only Run 93octane on my Purestage 2, my trims almost max out at 15-16psi redline.
how much can i benefit from this on F30,N55?

[keyap]

[Peter @ Pure]

Originally Posted by Steve @ BMS/Fuel-It!

[*]You can not run the stock airbox without modifying it. We recommend running the a BMS intake and the entire stock airbox must be removed.

Maybe good to note that for F series N55 you can run the stock airbox because it's in a complete different location. So the restriction for not running stock airbox with TBI is only valid for E series.

[JETmn]

How much fuel pressure is there? Is there any type of boost compensation to keep the fuel flow steady as boost rises?

[Steve @ BMS/Fuel-It!]

Originally Posted by M-terkait

I only Run 93octane on my Purestage 2, my trims almost max out at 15-16psi redline.
how much can i benefit from this on F30,N55?

Are you running FF wires? Post a log.

Originally Posted by darkiedm4

Maybe good to note that for F series N55 you can run the stock airbox because it's in a complete different location. So the restriction for not running stock airbox with TBI is only valid for E series.

Thanks, can you send me a picture?

Originally Posted by JETmn

How much fuel pressure is there? Is there any type of boost compensation to keep the fuel flow steady as boost rises?

Stock is approximately 72psi.

No, it's not needed as the DME does a very good job of hitting the target AFR's and to do so would be a much more complicated and expensive install. We are just supplementing the fueling so the HPFP doesn't run out of capacity and enabling the DME to continue doing it's job.

[Newguy123]

awesome, im sure this will make a lot of PS2 users veryhappy!

[DB90]

Great news Steve, I'm looking to get the f-series kit soon but i have a few questions.

My plan is to run TBI on my stock EWG turbo with the intentions of upgrading to pure stage 2 in the future. My HPFP Values drop and I misfire if I run anything above E28/E30 in 5th and 6th gear (8AT) at 18psi peak. Would I basically get off with running TBI without stage 2 LPFP on stock EWG turbo? Considering I don't need a huge amount of fuelling to satisfy my boost targets and using like E30/E35 + mix. .

Secondly can we upgrade the Hobbs switch as I believe I would need the 4psi switch initially for stock EWG turbo and then need the 15psi switch for pure stage 2?

Cheers

[BimmerFan]

Originally Posted by M-terkait

I only Run 93octane on my Purestage 2, my trims almost max out at 15-16psi redline.
how much can i benefit from this on F30,N55?

Have you had your car dynoed? What are you putting down at the rear wheel if so? I have always wondered with just FBO and Pure stage 2 and 93 octane waht the N55 makes. Do you have a EWG? Thanks.

[BimmerFan]

Originally Posted by DB90

Great news Steve, I'm looking to get the f-series kit soon but i have a few questions.

My plan is to run TBI on my stock EWG turbo with the intentions of upgrading to pure stage 2 in the future. My HPFP Values drop and I misfire if I run anything above E28/E30 in 5th and 6th gear (8AT) at 18psi peak. Would I basically get off with running TBI without stage 2 LPFP on stock EWG turbo? Considering I don't need a huge amount of fuelling to satisfy my boost targets and using like E30/E35 + mix. .

Secondly can we upgrade the Hobbs switch as I believe I would need the 4psi switch initially for stock EWG turbo and then need the 15psi switch for pure stage 2?

Cheers

Awesome questions! I am in the same boat. Do you ran map 7 with E30?

[DB90]

Originally Posted by BimmerFan

Awesome questions! I am in the same boat. Do you ran map 7 with E30?

I run my custom map 6 targeting 18 psi +/- at E25/26. I mix in E100 from drums into 93. I've found map 6 to be quicker than map 7 when timing on my Vbox.

I'm just tired of having to constantly adjust my settings because I'm on the verge of what I can run E wise currently. It's now like 5 degrees centigrade where I live and its required me to adjust my FOL to get trims in place and stop HPFP dipping to low.

Ideally I don't want to run meth so if I can just run TBI for now that would be great.

[paradoxical3]

This kit is appealing to me, but how have you ensured that distribution is even to all cylinders? Thanks.

[M-terkait]

Originally Posted by BimmerFan

Have you had your car dynoed? What are you putting down at the rear wheel if so? I have always wondered with just FBO and Pure stage 2 and 93 octane waht the N55 makes. Do you have a EWG? Thanks.

no i didn't but i pull on stock M3-F80 after 80mph, so i gotta be around 420-430?

[Steve @ BMS/Fuel-It!]

Originally Posted by DB90

Great news Steve, I'm looking to get the f-series kit soon but i have a few questions.

My plan is to run TBI on my stock EWG turbo with the intentions of upgrading to pure stage 2 in the future. My HPFP Values drop and I misfire if I run anything above E28/E30 in 5th and 6th gear (8AT) at 18psi peak. Would I basically get off with running TBI without stage 2 LPFP on stock EWG turbo? Considering I don't need a huge amount of fuelling to satisfy my boost targets and using like E30/E35 + mix. .

Secondly can we upgrade the Hobbs switch as I believe I would need the 4psi switch initially for stock EWG turbo and then need the 15psi switch for pure stage 2?

Cheers

We have never tried running it with the stock LPFP and don't recommend it.

Yes, upgrading the Hobb's switch later is as simple as disconnecting the two ground wires, unscrewing the hobb's switch, and replacing.

Originally Posted by paradoxical3

This kit is appealing to me, but how have you ensured that distribution is even to all cylinders? Thanks.

We did a lot of work to get good atomization and distribution. Consequently fuel is injected on both sides of the throttle body (top and bottom) and we did over a year of testing on the N54's which can log AFR's from bank to bank. In addition, if you're getting less fuel in the cylinder, you're also getting less air unlike with meth where if you're getting less meth, you're getting less octane.

[DB90]

Originally Posted by Steve @ BMS/Fuel-It!

We have never tried running it with the stock LPFP and don't recommend it.

Yes, upgrading the Hobb's switch later is as simple as disconnecting the two ground wires, unscrewing the hobb's switch, and replacing.

I presume worst case scenario is the oem LPFP won't be able to supply enough fuel for the HPFP and TBI making the TBI upgrade redundant?

That's good news regarding the Hobbs switch.

Cheers.

[Steve @ BMS/Fuel-It!]

Correct, with the N55 you don't have an LPFP sensor. The only way to judge how the fuel system is doing is to monitor the HPFP (rail) pressures with the FF wires installed. When those are dropping, it can be one of two things, the LPFP or the HPFP. The F-series LPFP is pretty small and not a very high capacity pump, so I'd keep that in mind too.

[DB90]

Originally Posted by Steve @ BMS/Fuel-It!

Correct, with the N55 you don't have an LPFP sensor. The only way to judge how the fuel system is doing is to monitor the HPFP (rail) pressures with the FF wires installed. When those are dropping, it can be one of two things, the LPFP or the HPFP. The F-series LPFP is pretty small and not a very high capacity pump, so I'd keep that in mind too.

Cheers for the info Steve. I may well try TBI only knowing it might not be successful on its own. If it does work then great, if not then I'll just upgrade to your stage 2 LPFP.

[NorCalN55]

Platinum on the way!! Thanks for getting the N55 fueling on par!!

[keyap]

Hi Steve,

Firstly, great work - really good to see this now available for the N55s .

Am considering placing an order for this plus one of your LPFPs but am also wondering whether to hold out for your PI kit (assuming this is still something your progressing and will be releasing?). Just a few questions (apologies if some of these are not relevant but my knowledge isn't great and I want to make sure I go down the right route):-

1. The bronze kit comes as option A or B with A needing the manifold to be removed. I'm assuming the silver and above do not need the manifold removing?

2. Do you have any more info on the stock airbox mod on the E series?

3. You commented earlier re: the work on atomization and equal distribution to all cylinders. I'm assuming that with this system there's always going to be some slight variation but can it ever get to the point where damage would be caused?

4. Is there any way to 'real time' check cylinder to cylinder variance. I'm guessing not given only N54's can measure cylinder to cylinder timing advance and ignition corrections. Probably one for Terry / the guys at BMS but, do you know if there's any plans for this on the N55?

4. Are there any safety measures built in (car / JB4 / this system) that would kick in should the system stop working or a cylinder to cylinder variance occur which would cause damage?

5. Given the increase fuelling this delivers is there any need for new BEF maps? Would the BMS maps in the large turbo thread still be OK?

6. Does fuelling vary with boost? Lets say for example you have the 15psi Hobbs switch - am I right to think <15psi = TBI not on and >15psi = TBI on. But, is the amount of additional fuel delivered at 16psi the same as say 23psi? Does it actually matter?

7. Is it possible to max out this system with a Pure S2? I'm guessing not given what you and other 'testers' have experienced but just want to be 100% sure.

7. How does this compare to PI - what does this offer that PI does not and vica vera? Would be good to see a pros / cons of each comparison if possible.

8. Assuming you are still looking to produce a N55 PI kit, do you have any idea of when it will be released and price?

9. Will you be offering the TBI kit with a discount on your LPFPs? I seem to remember that when the N54 guys got there was something like an initial $100 discount on stage 2 and 3s.

Thanks.

[Steve @ BMS/Fuel-It!]

Originally Posted by DB90

Cheers for the info Steve. I may well try TBI only knowing it might not be successful on its own. If it does work then great, if not then I'll just upgrade to your stage 2 LPFP.

Sounds good.

Originally Posted by NorCalN55

Platinum on the way!! Thanks for getting the N55 fueling on par!!

Your welcome and thank you!

Originally Posted by keyap

Hi Steve,

Firstly, great work - really good to see this now available for the N55s .

Am considering placing an order for this plus one of your LPFPs but am also wondering whether to hold out for your PI kit (assuming this is still something your progressing and will be releasing?). Just a few questions (apologies if some of these are not relevant but my knowledge isn't great and I want to make sure I go down the right route):-

1. The bronze kit comes as option A or B with A needing the manifold to be removed. I'm assuming the silver and above do not need the manifold removing?

2. Do you have any more info on the stock airbox mod on the E series?

3. You commented earlier re: the work on atomization and equal distribution to all cylinders. I'm assuming that with this system there's always going to be some slight variation but can it ever get to the point where damage would be caused?

4. Is there any way to 'real time' check cylinder to cylinder variance. I'm guessing not given only N54's can measure cylinder to cylinder timing advance and ignition corrections. Probably one for Terry / the guys at BMS but, do you know if there's any plans for this on the N55?

4. Are there any safety measures built in (car / JB4 / this system) that would kick in should the system stop working or a cylinder to cylinder variance occur which would cause damage?

5. Given the increase fuelling this delivers is there any need for new BEF maps? Would the BMS maps in the large turbo thread still be OK?

6. Does fuelling vary with boost? Lets say for example you have the 15psi Hobbs switch - am I right to think <15psi = TBI not on and >15psi = TBI on. But, is the amount of additional fuel delivered at 16psi the same as say 23psi? Does it actually matter?

7. Is it possible to max out this system with a Pure S2? I'm guessing not given what you and other 'testers' have experienced but just want to be 100% sure.

7. How does this compare to PI - what does this offer that PI does not and vica vera? Would be good to see a pros / cons of each comparison if possible.

8. Assuming you are still looking to produce a N55 PI kit, do you have any idea of when it will be released and price?

9. Will you be offering the TBI kit with a discount on your LPFPs? I seem to remember that when the N54 guys got there was something like an initial $100 discount on stage 2 and 3s.

Thanks.

Thanks!

1. That is incorrect, on the N55 the only kit that does not need the manifold to be removed is the Bronze kit with the extended fuel line. We will do a video demonstration in the next couple days explaining the difference between the two locations and give an overview.

2. No, it really isn't something we were interested in doing as we run aftermarket intakes. We may take a look at it, but at this time recommend running an aftermarket intake.

3. No we don't believe so. When modifying cars you always run the risk of something going wrong. However in this case we are utilizing bulk distribution so as mentioned earlier, should a cylinder get less fuel, it will also get less air.

4a. Terry and I have talked about this and it's certainly on the table, but thus far has yet to be implemented.

4b. There are a couple systems at play here. On the JB4 side should you run lean you get kicked to map 4. with the DME, should your fuel rail pressures drop below approximately 10 on the JB4 or 1500psi, you'll get misfires across all cylinders and kicked to limp mode.

5. That would be dependent upon what fuel mix you are running and how much power you're making. In most cases you wouldn't need a BEF and this may actually make them even less of a necessity for higher ethanol mixes as the scalars may not need to be adjusted up to accommodate the additional fueling. In addition the JB4 also has the FOL feature that can be used to adjust the fueling.

6. You are correct, the boost switch determines when the system turns on. No, the system is not boost referenced in that it does not increase the amount of fuel flow with more boost. We leave that in the hands of the DME by keeping the rail pressures in check and allowing it to do it's thing. It's much faster and more accurate with it's closed loop fueling.

7a. Sure, especially on the F-series as they have a pretty weak HPFP. But we are only supplementing approximately 1 liter of fuel per minute, so that we can keep that atomization, distribution, and remain within the functional confines that the DME can operate within and still be able to adjust the fueling as needed.

7b. PI is per cylinder distribution, this is bulk distribution. I'll let you guys debate the pros and cons of that. I think both have their benefits and drawbacks. The biggest difference is sheer volume potential and complexity. I believe they fill two different needs.

8. PI kits should start shipping the first part of December and the pricing will remain consistent with the CPE/BMS and MOTIV kits that are currently on the market but you will have a lot more options, just like you do with the TBI kits.

9. Yes, through the end of November if you order a Bronze or Silver kit and a Stage 2/3 we'll refund you $50. If you order a Stage 2/3 and a Gold or Platinum kit will refund you $100. FTR, a Stage 3 kit is not needed nor recommended for TBI but some people choose to buy a Stage 3 with bigger goals in mind down the road.

Cheers,
Steve

[keyap]

Steve, thanks for taking the time to reply and for providing such a detailed set of answers.

Could I check 1 last thing as I wanting to make sure I order the right system for my needs.

For 7a you mentioned a Pure S2 could max out this system, especially on a F series. For an E series with a stage 2 LPFP, where the Pure was running at say 24 or 25 peak tappering to around 22 or 23 with around 40 or 50% bio ethanol would TBI be OK or would one of your PI kits be a better option?

If I decided to run higher boost would it need to be PI? Suppose what I'm also asking is for the above car, what's the boost / BHP limit of the TBI kit and, once passed, would it then need to be PI?

Thanks

[Abear]

Originally Posted by keyap

Steve, thanks for taking the time to reply and for providing such a detailed set of answers.

Could I check 1 last thing as I wanting to make sure I order the right system for my needs.

For 7a you mentioned a Pure S2 could max out this system, especially on a F series. For an E series with a stage 2 LPFP, where the Pure was running at say 24 or 25 peak tappering to around 22 or 23 with around 40 or 50% bio ethanol would TBI be OK or would one of your PI kits be a better option?

If I decided to run higher boost would it need to be PI? Suppose what I'm also asking is for the above car, what's the boost / BHP limit of the TBI kit and, once passed, would it then need to be PI?

Thanks

On my F30 EWG, Im running out of HPFP at 23psi on E30. Im hoping the TBI will allow me to climb to 26psi. You should be fine, the E cars are known to have a better HP pump than the F30s. Eventually you will want more though

[Peter @ Pure]

Originally Posted by keyap

Steve, thanks for taking the time to reply and for providing such a detailed set of answers.

Could I check 1 last thing as I wanting to make sure I order the right system for my needs.

For 7a you mentioned a Pure S2 could max out this system, especially on a F series. For an E series with a stage 2 LPFP, where the Pure was running at say 24 or 25 peak tappering to around 22 or 23 with around 40 or 50% bio ethanol would TBI be OK or would one of your PI kits be a better option?

If I decided to run higher boost would it need to be PI? Suppose what I'm also asking is for the above car, what's the boost / BHP limit of the TBI kit and, once passed, would it then need to be PI?

Thanks

Steve runs his E series N55 with pure stage2 at 28 psi peak taper to 24 on a E60 mix with stage2 LPFP and TBI.

So I think you will be fine.