N54Tech.com - International Turbo Racing Discussion
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Nokturnal37F Nokturnal37F is offline
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Default DD Turbo Recommendations (VTT Stock vs Stage 1) - 07-23-2018, 04:12 AM

Hey guys, just looking for some input again. So right before I deployed my car developed a pretty bad turbo whine and started smoking heavily out of the tailpipe. With around 120k on the turbos at this point, I'm actually quite proud they lasted this long...

With that said, I'm planning on replacing the turbos, all of the lines, and doing the oil pan gasket once I return home. As much as I would love to drop some stage II's or GC's in it, I really can't justify the cost for such an old car. Reliability also comes into question, being that this is my daily driver back and forth to work. I'm looking at either going VTT OEM, VTT OEM with billet upgrade, or VTT stage I. Even if I added the billet upgrade to the OEMs, I could still afford to add outlets to the price and still come out roughly the same price as the stage I, with little to no added labor time/cost. Even looking at the performance aspect, I would almost bet that stock replacement w/billet or possibly even just stock replacement, when coupled with outlets, would outperform and outlast the stage I, but I could very well be wrong. It just seems to me, after reading through many posts, that the stage I's just don't perform all that much better than the OEMs, yet have an increased risk of failure. Would I be true in thinking this?

So..

How would you guys vote, keeping in mind that this is my back and forth daily driver and I also can't justify spending more than $1500 on the turbo? (don't worry, already budgeted installation parts and labor separately, this is simply just my turbo budget)

Stock replacement
Stock replacement with billet wheel
Stage I

Current mods...

JB4, turbo-back exhaust, DCI, charge-pipe, BOV, LPFP upgrade, OCC, RB PCV, meth injection (chargepipe), 3.5 bar sensor, VRSF Inlets (awaiting install)
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LessIsMore's Avatar
LessIsMore LessIsMore is offline
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Default 07-23-2018, 09:42 AM

Are the stock replacements you are considering remanufactured, or brand new?
If reman, then skip them and go stage 1.

OEM turbos will almost always be more reliable than aftermarket, *Assuming they are going to operate within their intended flow range* ... but are going to be more prone to WG rattle which most people consider a reliability thing.

With your setup, stock turbos will be too stressed and likely to fail quicker than normal (or even quicker than higher-flow aftermarket turbos). You might actually get more reliability out of an upgraded turbo with higher flow capability, simply because it will have an easier life and won't get as over-stressed to keep up with your mods.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nokturnal37F
As much as I would love to drop some stage II's or GC's in it, I really can't justify the cost for such an old car. Reliability also comes into question, being that this is my daily driver back and forth to work.
I would suggest you upgrade the turbos to higher-flowing units, your current mods are already maxing out and over-stressing the OEM turbo size. Yes inlets would help with new OEM turbos by letting work a little easier, but fact remains they're not up to airflow demands of raised boost + FBO .

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nokturnal37F
Even looking at the performance aspect, I would almost bet that stock replacement w/billet or possibly even just stock replacement, when coupled with outlets, would outperform and outlast the stage I, but I could very well be wrong. It just seems to me, after reading through many posts, that the stage I's just don't perform all that much better than the OEMs, yet have an increased risk of failure. Would I be true in thinking this?
Hard to say, but possibly - overall I'd agree that stage 1's offer minimal benefit over OEM.

But you need some sort of upgraded turbo with your mods, even if you don't want more HP - you need a higher-flowing turbo so that it won't be stressed to make the power you have now, and burn out quickly. So if the largest you will consider is Stage 1, get those.


2017 AMG C63 -JB4
2009 535i - 548whp - sold

Last edited by LessIsMore; 07-23-2018 at 09:56 AM..
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Torgus Torgus is offline
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Default 07-23-2018, 01:41 PM

Get some RBs is my vote. Email Rob Beck <rob.rbturbo@gmail.com> and he will lay it all out for you. You get what you pay for.


E92 ACF 6466 + AM Meth / E70 #1 / E70 #2 JBD

Got Boost?
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Alpine1 Alpine1 is offline
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Default 07-23-2018, 06:45 PM

I gotta agree. I know you didn’t ask about RB Turbos however Rob will put together a package that meets your needs. Good luck with your decision.
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lead_injection lead_injection is offline
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Default 07-24-2018, 10:41 AM

I was literally in the same dilemma back in May - turbo issues, hemorrhaging oil, wastegate rattle etc. My 535i was at around 155k miles.

Vargas is local to me, so I was able to have all the work done there. I was considering the rebuilt stock, but was able to get a deal on the stage 1's with billet compressor wheel as I was getting the work done there too. Communication with Tony and the work was excellent.

Being that the labor is the biggest cost, I say go with the upgrade because it'll be super expensive later to make the change.

You know that when you ask questions on a forum everyone is going to steer you towards the expensive option? lol
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Nokturnal37F Nokturnal37F is offline
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Default 08-17-2018, 01:01 AM

Thanks for all the recommendations everyone I guess I'll look into both options and send some emails. Both look to be very comparable, even in price. I know the RBs have had a great track record here recently, but I also haven't seen anything negative about VTT in recent times. It seems like both have kinda perfected their stuff at this point. Maybe one will offer me a military discount and seal the deal :D I still wont be back for a couple more months so there's still plenty of time to work out the details with them.


JB4, turbo-back exhaust, DCI, charge-pipe, BOV, LPFP upgrade, OCC, RB PCV, meth injection (chargepipe), 3.5 bar sensor, VRSF Inlets (awaiting install)
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ferocity02 ferocity02 is offline
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Default 08-17-2018, 07:16 PM

If you want reliable, go with stock.


2013 135is DCT Carbon Black
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Dave @ BMS/Fuel-It!'s Avatar
Dave @ BMS/Fuel-It! Dave @ BMS/Fuel-It! is offline
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Default 08-17-2018, 08:39 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nokturnal37F
Thanks for all the recommendations everyone I guess I'll look into both options and send some emails. Both look to be very comparable, even in price. I know the RBs have had a great track record here recently, but I also haven't seen anything negative about VTT in recent times. It seems like both have kinda perfected their stuff at this point. Maybe one will offer me a military discount and seal the deal :D I still wont be back for a couple more months so there's still plenty of time to work out the details with them.
Pure DD or RB stage 1.

Rb May even make a billet stock option- robs always easy / great to work with.



http://www.fuel-it.biz/

e92 AT 335xi 2.0
Doc Race Kit 6062
Fuel-It!Platinum DIY PI Kit + Stage 2BL
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Riceball777 Riceball777 is offline
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Default 08-18-2018, 10:41 PM

I love my pure stage 2 dd turbos. I had the. For about 2 years now with over 15,000 miles. No issues at all. I run them with 50%e85 and 50% 91octane with the hybrid turbo E85 mod back end flash and I run map 7. Runs about 21 psi of boost.


2007 e90 335i
pure stgae 2 DD turbos, rb inlets, bms 4 bar map sensor
Jb4 with mhd hybrid e85 back end flash, vrsf down pipe vrsf 7" intercooler, vrsf charge pipe with tial bov and afe intake. Fuel it stage 2 pump and fuel line/ethanol content kit.
spec stage 2+ clutch with new oem dmfw
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Vargas Stage1 Vargas Stage1 is offline
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Default 08-19-2018, 02:49 PM

I have VVT Stage 1's... JB4 Map7 MHD backend flash on E60 blend for 1 year now 5000 miles total.... Prior to that the previous owner put 10,000 miles on them without upgraded LPFP and MHD backend and he ran map5 on E40 blend FBO minus inlets made 430/450whp Std... So total 15000 miles and NO Problem what so ever with the VVT Stage1... Probably @ 470/500 @ 20psi now...
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rickz96 rickz96 is offline
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Default 08-20-2018, 03:00 AM

I was in a similar situation, 140k miles on stock turbo's and quite proud. I purchased VTT Stage one hybrids (TD04 centers) with billet compressors and all supporting FBO mods. I am unsure how long I am keeping the car, so I went with the Stage 1 hybrids. I had similar reliability concerns and went with the hybrids.

I ran my stock turbos for many years at 15-18psi and must say the car is completely different. I run JB4 map 6 BEF 100% E85. The car runs well, in fact so well I am now having to replace the clutch (6M) and rebuild my transfer case. I was taking out the tranny last night I noticed my flex disk is completely destroyed and was just replaced about 3k miles ago.

I went with VTT and highly recommend the products. Tony was very responsive to my questions and worked with me on product selection considering I am one of the few crazy 535xi owners who have special needs from time to time.
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