N54Tech.com - International Turbo Racing Discussion
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theobjectivist theobjectivist is offline
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Default Anyone regret getting larger aftermarket turbos? - 07-18-2018, 09:04 AM

Im thinking that quality aftermarket units (brands that boast perfect balancing and upgraded wastegates) will be better than stock.

And Im also thinking that true td04s with their larger internals will be able to handle more abuse and run at a slower speed thus improving reliability further.



Is this logic sound? Has anyone upgraded to a larger unit and regretted it? e.g - noise, spool speed, emissions or *anything* else i may not be thinking of?




Im looking to keep my 6spd 535i a DD and want ~450 WHP on nothing besides ACN91 octane.

Ive had my eye on RB Next gen or Next Gen Plus
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N54QC N54QC is offline
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Default 07-18-2018, 06:38 PM

No regrets thus far


VTT Stage 2+ | JB4 G5 w/ Trebila BEF | Fuel-It Stage 3 | XHP Stage 3 | BL Coils | VTT Inlets | MMP Outlets | BMS Meth Dual 10/5CM | VRSF 7" FMIC | VRSF **'s | BMS CP | BMS DCI | Turbosmart Dual Port | 3.5 TMAP | BMS OCC | VTT PVC | BMS Anti-Lag | NGK 5992 | M3 Rear Upper Controls And Godspeed TB's | Lock-Down Brace | 235/285-18 PSS
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GotPwned GotPwned is offline
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Default 07-18-2018, 09:33 PM

You wont regret a thing the moment you press your pedal. My Pure Stage 2s makes me feel like im driving a entirely new car.
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theobjectivist theobjectivist is offline
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Default 07-19-2018, 09:48 AM

How do you feel about the extra lag around town? Did your fuel economy drop too? (assuming comparable driving habits)
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chadillac2000 chadillac2000 is offline
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Default 07-19-2018, 10:10 AM

The extra lag debate goes right out the window the first time you drive/ride in an N54 car with upgraded turbos or a single.

My fuel economy actually improved as I don't dip into boost so soon during daily driving -- currently averaging 23mpg on my 6062 single setup, up from 20-21 when I was FBO stock turbo.


Visit Chadillac2000's 2008 135i Road Warrior Daily Driver Single Turbo Build Thread HERE

ACF PTE 6062 BB Top Mount ST Kit, Fuel-It! Stage 3 LPFP, Phoenix Racing Port Injection Manifold + RACE FMIC, JB4 + BMS ST E85 PI BEF
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LessIsMore LessIsMore is offline
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Default 07-19-2018, 11:10 AM

The way I see it, I had horsepower goals and the larger turbos were needed to get there. I am happy with them, I DD my car and they are totally good re: spool, noise, etc.. I did inlets at the same time, and I believe that the inlets contributed to an increase in Turbo noise much more than the GC's themselves.

With that said, if you think you just want 450 horsepower then plan on getting turbos that support 550 because you will want more, proven fact.

In my opinion, the real soul searching that 1 has to do with this platform is about the fueling. Whether to upgrade to PI, meth, etc. and all the associated complexity that comes with it.


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Payam @ BMS's Avatar
Payam @ BMS Payam @ BMS is offline
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Default 07-19-2018, 12:25 PM

Not one regret.


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Home of the Worlds fastest N20s, N54s, N55s, S55s, N63s, and S63s!

It is the sole responsibility of the purchaser and installer of any BMS part to employ the correct installation techniques required to ensure the proper operation of BMS parts, and BMS disclaims any and all liability for any part failure due to improper installation or use. It is the sole responsibility of the customer to verify that the use of their vehicle and items purchased comply with federal, state and local regulations. BMS claims no legal federal, state or local certification concerning pollution controlled motor vehicles or mandated emissions requirements. BMS products labeled for use only in competition racing vehicles may only be used on competition racing vehicles operated exclusively on a closed course in conjunction with a sanctioned racing event, in accordance with all federal and state laws, and may never be operated on public roads/highways. Please click here for more information on legal requirements related to use of BMS parts.
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theobjectivist theobjectivist is offline
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Default 07-19-2018, 02:30 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by chadillac2000
The extra lag debate goes right out the window the first time you drive/ride in an N54 car with upgraded turbos or a single.

Nice

My fuel economy actually improved as I don't dip into boost so soon during daily driving -- currently averaging 23mpg on my 6062 single setup, up from 20-21 when I was FBO stock turbo.

Wow - i didnt think an improvement would be had let alone several mpgs, amazing
Quote:
Originally Posted by LessIsMore
The way I see it, I had horsepower goals and the larger turbos were needed to get there. I am happy with them, I DD my car and they are totally good re: spool, noise, etc.. I did inlets at the same time, and I believe that the inlets contributed to an increase in Turbo noise much more than the GC's themselves.

Inlets add noise? Hmm - i dont like that. Im already unhappy with the expected volume increase from d0nwpipes.....

With that said, if you think you just want 450 horsepower then plan on getting turbos that support 550 because you will want more, proven fact.

In in cali though so im capped regardless of the HP itch. ACN91 without e85 or meth = lowered expectations

In my opinion, the real soul searching that 1 has to do with this platform is about the fueling. Whether to upgrade to PI, meth, etc. and all the associated complexity that comes with it.

Agreed. I went through the process and in my case, my last step is a better LPFP and thats it.


...
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Alpine1 Alpine1 is offline
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Default 07-19-2018, 02:53 PM

I have Robís Next Gens and Iím at the HP that you are looking for. I love hearing those turbos spool. My MPG is the same if not better than stock. Rob will listen to your concerns and put together a package that will suit your needs. Quality product and you will feel great about your decision. RB Turbo FTW.
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theobjectivist theobjectivist is offline
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Default 07-19-2018, 03:29 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alpine1
I have Robís Next Gens and Iím at the HP that you are looking for. I love hearing those turbos spool. My MPG is the same if not better than stock. Rob will listen to your concerns and put together a package that will suit your needs. Quality product and you will feel great about your decision. RB Turbo FTW.
Rob is recommending the next gen standards so i think im going with that.


With yours, did you have it professionally tuned afterwards? It just dawned on me that an OTS MHD stage2+ wont work.....
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THE BEAST THE BEAST is offline
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Default 07-19-2018, 03:38 PM

Zero regrets. Although my turbos are not BIG. Anyways, driving my car last night and it ALWAYS makes me appreciate all the work I have put in it. Car is definitely a pleasure to drive.
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Default 07-19-2018, 06:34 PM

Been running 6262 @ 23psi no regrets whatsoever.
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Alpine1 Alpine1 is offline
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Default 07-19-2018, 07:42 PM

Yes I got rid of the JB4 and had BPC in Raleigh NC put a tune on it. I’m at 450hp and 500tq to the wheels. I had to replace my HPFP. When I take it back to get it re tuned it will be over 550hp and 600tq. They really wanted me to get a E85 tune however I don’t think that is for me. They said they can really turn the boost up then. I’m very happy w/ my Next Gens. I would do it again if I had to.
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Default 07-20-2018, 09:46 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by theobjectivist
Inlets add noise? Hmm - i dont like that. Im already unhappy with the expected volume increase from d0nwpipes.....
Oh yeah, but not necessarily loud noise - just hear the whoosh/hiss of the turbo more. ********* did not make my car much louder at all, actually.

Quote:
In in cali though so im capped regardless of the HP itch. ACN91 without e85 or meth = lowered expectations
eh, you could still do ethanol or meth if you wanted.

Quote:
Agreed. I went through the process and in my case, my last step is a better LPFP and thats it.
yeah ... you say that now, lol

But yeah, if you end up running pump only, stage 2 LPFP is probably all you need.


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codesx codesx is offline
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Default 07-20-2018, 09:46 AM

Is anyone here running 450WHP on 91 Octane with great timing?
I've been finding it hard to get over 400WHP on 94 Octane while keeping timing clean.
No issue in the cold weather, but in 90f ambient it starts getting sketchy.

Are you running a FMIC? If so, what size?
That might be your only method of keeping temps down and improving timing (preventing knock), without E or Meth.

I wonder if the RB turbos don't result in as much IAT spike due to being a bit larger and possibly lower RPM than stockers trying to do the same thing? (I'm in over my head there)

I'm thinking some form of RB will be my next twins, as I am targeting similar WHP... however, even running 94 I can just pull 400WPH on a cool day safely.


--

2008 335i Convertible, E93, N54, A/T (190,000+ km)
Wheels: 322 | Tires: R.275/35r18, F.245/40r18
TUNE: JB4/Trebila | 24 PSI | 100% Meth via dual BM5 | 94 Octane
BMS: JB4, Map 6 | WMI | 5" FMIC | OCC | DCI | Cowel Filters
TMAP: 3.5 barr
xHP Stage 3 (v2.0)
VRSF CP | HKS BOV
RB PCV Valve
NGK 5992 Plugs @ .020

Maintenance:
2018 - A/T Replaced | Plugs | Ign Coils | Walnut Blasting
2019 - Index 12 Injectors | VCG | OFHG & O-rings | Alternator w/ Clutch Pulley | Water Pump & TStat
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Default 07-20-2018, 12:23 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by codesx
Is anyone here running 450WHP on 91 Octane with great timing?
I've been finding it hard to get over 400WHP on 94 Octane while keeping timing clean.
No issue in the cold weather, but in 90f ambient it starts getting sketchy.

Are you running a FMIC? If so, what size?
That might be your only method of keeping temps down and improving timing (preventing knock), without E or Meth.

I wonder if the RB turbos don't result in as much IAT spike due to being a bit larger and possibly lower RPM than stockers trying to do the same thing? (I'm in over my head there)

I'm thinking some form of RB will be my next twins, as I am targeting similar WHP... however, even running 94 I can just pull 400WPH on a cool day safely.
Running 12 psi (420whp) on my single setup with 91 I get timing drops. Not worth it at all. I run full e85 all day and 24 psi 650whp daily :D


Burger Motorsports
Home of the Worlds fastest N20s, N54s, N55s, S55s, N63s, and S63s!

It is the sole responsibility of the purchaser and installer of any BMS part to employ the correct installation techniques required to ensure the proper operation of BMS parts, and BMS disclaims any and all liability for any part failure due to improper installation or use. It is the sole responsibility of the customer to verify that the use of their vehicle and items purchased comply with federal, state and local regulations. BMS claims no legal federal, state or local certification concerning pollution controlled motor vehicles or mandated emissions requirements. BMS products labeled for use only in competition racing vehicles may only be used on competition racing vehicles operated exclusively on a closed course in conjunction with a sanctioned racing event, in accordance with all federal and state laws, and may never be operated on public roads/highways. Please click here for more information on legal requirements related to use of BMS parts.
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theobjectivist theobjectivist is offline
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Default 07-20-2018, 03:16 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Payam @ BMS
Running 12 psi (420whp) on my single setup with 91 I get timing drops. Not worth it at all. I run full e85 all day and 24 psi 650whp daily :D
your single struggles to get 420 on acn91?

This is what im talking about regarding regrets. Imagine spending that kind of bread and realizing the limits after the fact.

Im looking at spending $5-6k on installed RB twins putting me in the same boat. And Ill not have e85 access...
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Default 07-20-2018, 03:34 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by theobjectivist
your single struggles to get 420 on acn91?

This is what im talking about regarding regrets. Imagine spending that kind of bread and realizing the limits after the fact.

Im looking at spending $5-6k on installed RB twins putting me in the same boat. And Ill not have e85 access...
I have no clue what Payam is talking about my 6466 car was incredible on 91, way faster than any aftermarket twin car out there. Hyrbids will never make power on pump, they don't move enough air.

I was easily taking down C6 Z06s and those cars trap like 125+ mph


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N54QC N54QC is offline
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Default 07-20-2018, 06:01 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by theobjectivist
your single struggles to get 420 on acn91?

This is what im talking about regarding regrets. Imagine spending that kind of bread and realizing the limits after the fact.

Im looking at spending $5-6k on installed RB twins putting me in the same boat. And Ill not have e85 access...
Install them yourself and you have plenty of money for fueling...


VTT Stage 2+ | JB4 G5 w/ Trebila BEF | Fuel-It Stage 3 | XHP Stage 3 | BL Coils | VTT Inlets | MMP Outlets | BMS Meth Dual 10/5CM | VRSF 7" FMIC | VRSF **'s | BMS CP | BMS DCI | Turbosmart Dual Port | 3.5 TMAP | BMS OCC | VTT PVC | BMS Anti-Lag | NGK 5992 | M3 Rear Upper Controls And Godspeed TB's | Lock-Down Brace | 235/285-18 PSS
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T_H_O_M_A_S T_H_O_M_A_S is offline
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Default 07-21-2018, 05:40 AM

you give up some low end drivability
you get a lot of top end in return .
economy doenst go up as you are actually using a lot more power
that can only be extracted out of more fuel


M135i PWG , FBO , PS2 , LPFP st2 , HDP6 custom for N55 , wedge MHD mapping , XHP AT8
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lightning lightning is offline
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Default 07-21-2018, 08:21 PM

Been running my Pure Stage 2s since 2016 and no complaints at all, drivability is same as stock with a lot higher end power!

Best to pair with JB4 where you can change maps on the fly daily I’m running map 2.. and for power map 6. So it’s the best of both worlds!
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Riceball777 Riceball777 is offline
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Default 07-21-2018, 11:31 PM

Well the huge limiting factor is the face that you want to make as much power as possible with only 91 octane. 450whp should be doable on a good set of large hybrids or a large single turbo. But all the fun is really when you start using high octane fuel especially E85 cuz it’s cheep.

I personally love my pure stage 2 turbos. I think the spool and bottom end power is great. I run it on map7 with the standard hybrid E85 flash and the car is a beast. But on the 91octane flash and map 1 or 2its just ok. Not crazy fast.


2007 e90 335i
pure stgae 2 DD turbos, rb inlets, bms 4 bar map sensor
Jb4 with mhd hybrid e85 back end flash, vrsf down pipe vrsf 7" intercooler, vrsf charge pipe with tial bov and afe intake. Fuel it stage 2 pump and fuel line/ethanol content kit.
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Default 07-23-2018, 12:09 PM

Honestly, this platform is only about half as much fun if you can't run either meth or ethanol. Due to our small displacement, octane is a huge factor.


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codesx codesx is offline
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Default 07-23-2018, 01:01 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by LessIsMore
Honestly, this platform is only about half as much fun if you can't run either meth or ethanol. Due to our small displacement, octane is a huge factor.

+1

Just read all the "I just installed" and compare to their current signatures.
I'm learning, like everyone else... octane or substitute.
Otherwise its map 1, set and forget.


--

2008 335i Convertible, E93, N54, A/T (190,000+ km)
Wheels: 322 | Tires: R.275/35r18, F.245/40r18
TUNE: JB4/Trebila | 24 PSI | 100% Meth via dual BM5 | 94 Octane
BMS: JB4, Map 6 | WMI | 5" FMIC | OCC | DCI | Cowel Filters
TMAP: 3.5 barr
xHP Stage 3 (v2.0)
VRSF CP | HKS BOV
RB PCV Valve
NGK 5992 Plugs @ .020

Maintenance:
2018 - A/T Replaced | Plugs | Ign Coils | Walnut Blasting
2019 - Index 12 Injectors | VCG | OFHG & O-rings | Alternator w/ Clutch Pulley | Water Pump & TStat
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EconIsLyfe EconIsLyfe is offline
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Default 07-24-2018, 02:02 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by theobjectivist
Im looking at spending $5-6k on installed RB twins putting me in the same boat. And Ill not have e85 access...
A little over $6k got me everything in my sig bought and installed. Sitting at about 480whp and a bit over 500tq with LOTS of headroom with the MMP 1k's. No regrets at all (even after possibly blowing something up a few nights ago doing a log pull lol). The car feels amazing and still has that lowkey european sportscar sound to it. Just some extra turbo whine in higher RPMs, a little burble, and of course the BoV between gears. She's a sleeper, I love it.

After new coils I'll probably do a port injection kit and lpfp to get me over 500whp, then clutch, then suspension overhaul with M3 control arms and Bilstein coilovers, then I'm done. Just replace and upgrade as stuff breaks. No plans to go E85 or meth, just 93 besides the occasional track day when I'll throw a small ratio of ethanol in the tank. This is my daily, after all lol


2008 335i coupe, 6MT

JB4/BEF, DCI, MMP 1k turbos, MMP Inlets/Outlets, MMP D P, MMP CP, Tial BoV, VRSF 7" FMIC, Fuel-It! Stage 2 LPFP, Port Injection, Spec 3+ and smfw

Last edited by EconIsLyfe; 07-24-2018 at 02:11 PM..
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