N54Tech.com - International Turbo Racing Discussion
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ElSaigel ElSaigel is offline
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Default N54 upgrading stock turbos - 07-17-2013, 01:23 AM

Hi,
I'm running JB4 G5 ISO, BMS ***, BMS DCIs. Otherwise stock. On higher wastegate positions I'm suffering of rattle. I'd like my turbos react faster without rattling so I'm thinking of fixing and upgrading my turbos. This operation would include physically fixing the wastegate (for example tighter wastegate shaft). But at the same time it would be possible to modify the stock turbos with more efficient compressor wings. This would help the turbos output about 450-500hp.

...BUT, do I need to flash the stock DME or will I benefit of this modification with my JB4 G5 ISO? Will it autotune to this kind of change?
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bnk bnk is offline
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Default 07-17-2013, 03:19 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by ElSaigel
Hi,
I'm running JB4 G5 ISO, BMS ***, BMS DCIs. Otherwise stock. On higher wastegate positions I'm suffering of rattle. I'd like my turbos react faster without rattling so I'm thinking of fixing and upgrading my turbos. This operation would include physically fixing the wastegate (for example tighter wastegate shaft). But at the same time it would be possible to modify the stock turbos with more efficient compressor wings. This would help the turbos output about 450-500hp.

...BUT, do I need to flash the stock DME or will I benefit of this modification with my JB4 G5 ISO? Will it autotune to this kind of change?
Turbine side is the bottleneck. So compressor only upgrade does nothing. It's been tried several times as you can see if you'll search for the info.
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ElSaigel ElSaigel is offline
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Default 07-17-2013, 04:42 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by bnk
Turbine side is the bottleneck. So compressor only upgrade does nothing. It's been tried several times as you can see if you'll search for the info.
Oh... ...thanks for the info. Even thought it was a bit disappointing. So is there anything else I could do to the turbos to better their performance (at the same time fixing wastegates)? ...something that will not cost thousands of dollars...
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NetEagle NetEagle is offline
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Default 07-17-2013, 11:53 AM

Nope




'11 335i LMB, 6M, M-Sport, 35% tint, Stone-X, BMW Performance Exhaust, Shadow Grills, CF competition spoiler, CDV, aFe Stage 2 Intake, cp-e CP, Lamin-X "Tint" Head-Fog-Tail Film, Schroth Rallye 4 Harnesses, debadged, CAN Tool, Vortex 260M 18" Track Wheels with BFG R1 (245/265), Hawk DTC-70/HP Plus pads.

RIP '08 135i -- Lemoned Out
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ElSaigel ElSaigel is offline
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Default 07-27-2013, 01:40 AM

So I could get the turbos fixed for $600 each. New OEM turbos would cost about $950 each. Vargas OEM replacements something like $2000 (including taxes and shipment), vargas stg1 $2600. Then again I wouldn't have to add much more to get vargas stg2 or RB-turbos. BUT what else do I need to get if I'm going for vargas stg1/stg2 or RB-turbos? Do all these three need new ECU flash (which costs at least $1000)? Anything else? I'm running '07 335i manual with BMS DCI, OCC, *** and JB4 G5 ISO.

The most important thing would be to get the car working properly without any rattles. What would be the bargain for me if I'm not obsessed to get 600bhp?

What is the difference between vargas oem replacement and stage 1 in practice?
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bnk bnk is offline
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Default 07-27-2013, 10:09 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by ElSaigel
So I could get the turbos fixed for $600 each. New OEM turbos would cost about $950 each. Vargas OEM replacements something like $2000 (including taxes and shipment), vargas stg1 $2600. Then again I wouldn't have to add much more to get vargas stg2 or RB-turbos. BUT what else do I need to get if I'm going for vargas stg1/stg2 or RB-turbos? Do all these three need new ECU flash (which costs at least $1000)? Anything else? I'm running '07 335i manual with BMS DCI, OCC, *** and JB4 G5 ISO.

The most important thing would be to get the car working properly without any rattles. What would be the bargain for me if I'm not obsessed to get 600bhp?

What is the difference between vargas oem replacement and stage 1 in practice?
I would go with fixing the WGs only or new stock turbos, or RBs. There is no good semi-upgrade available. A proven JB4 tune exists for RBs so you don't need to spend on custom tuning. The JB back end flash for RBs is free, but you need to have a flashing tool. The cheapest home flashing tool currently is $395 (OpenFlash), but with any luck flashing at home will be even cheaper in the future.
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ElSaigel ElSaigel is offline
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Default 07-28-2013, 12:52 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by bnk
I would go with fixing the WGs only or new stock turbos, or RBs. There is no good semi-upgrade available. A proven JB4 tune exists for RBs so you don't need to spend on custom tuning. The JB back end flash for RBs is free, but you need to have a flashing tool. The cheapest home flashing tool currently is $395 (OpenFlash), but with any luck flashing at home will be even cheaper in the future.
Why would you choose stock over Vargas OEM replacement. Aren't new stock turbos prone to rattle?
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135hoser 135hoser is offline
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Default 07-28-2013, 05:35 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by ElSaigel
Why would you choose stock over Vargas OEM replacement. Aren't new stock turbos prone to rattle?
After tens of thousands of miles, yes, the stock turbos will start to rattle at idle. (wastegates, has little effect on performance)

However there is exactly 0 long term data/research/etc done on the VTT stock upgrade.
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Rob@RBTurbo's Avatar
Rob@RBTurbo Rob@RBTurbo is online now
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Default 07-28-2013, 05:54 PM

The OEM Turbos have gone through numerous changes with the wastegate design to date. The latest units have better dimensional improvements on the components. I can only imagine they made improvements with the metallurgical side of things as well. That said they should last longer than they once did. The idea of buying refurbished turbos (old CHRA, etc) over buying brand new latest and greatest OEM turbos at nearly the same price is a very bad idea IMHO, hence is why we do not offer them for sale. You simply can not beat the price for new OEM Turbos, at $600'ish a piece from some of these online part discounting dealerships.

Rob


See www.rbturbo.com for N54 Twin Turbo Bolt-On upgrades, or contact directly 314-630-8950 rob.rbturbo@gmail.com for a price quote.
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ElSaigel ElSaigel is offline
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Default 07-29-2013, 12:40 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob@RBTurbo
The OEM Turbos have gone through numerous changes with the wastegate design to date. The latest units have better dimensional improvements on the components. I can only imagine they made improvements with the metallurgical side of things as well. That said they should last longer than they once did. The idea of buying refurbished turbos (old CHRA, etc) over buying brand new latest and greatest OEM turbos at nearly the same price is a very bad idea IMHO, hence is why we do not offer them for sale. You simply can not beat the price for new OEM Turbos, at $600'ish a piece from some of these online part discounting dealerships.

Rob
Thanks for the advice! Could you give me any tips on where to look at to find those $600'ish stock units?
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Steve @ BMS/Fuel-It!'s Avatar
Steve @ BMS/Fuel-It! Steve @ BMS/Fuel-It! is offline
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Default 07-29-2013, 01:13 AM

Here's one from Tischer

ENGINE / ENGINE / TURBOCHARGER & COMPONENTS / Turbocharger
Turbocharger 3.0 LITER W/BI TURBO, front

MSRP Core ? Save Online Price
$791.68 $500.00 $158.34 $633.34


Another option: contact dan@unitedbmwonline.com for a quote...he's been very competitive and who I order my parts through.



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Video of our Stage 2 LPFP upgrade installation.

BMS products labeled for use only in competition racing vehicles may only be used on competition racing vehicles operated exclusively on a closed course in conjunction with a sanctioned racing event, in accordance with all federal and state laws, and may never be operated on public roads/highways.
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ElSaigel ElSaigel is offline
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Default 07-29-2013, 01:30 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by SteveAZ
Here's one from Tischer

ENGINE / ENGINE / TURBOCHARGER & COMPONENTS / Turbocharger
Turbocharger 3.0 LITER W/BI TURBO, front

MSRP Core ? Save Online Price
$791.68 $500.00 $158.34 $633.34


Another option: contact dan@unitedbmwonline.com for a quote...he's been very competitive and who I order my parts through.
Cheers!
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