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byebyev8 byebyev8 is offline
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Default 01-11-2017, 03:27 PM

How much power can the n63 motor handle reliably? Thinking about getting rid of my 335i for one of these.
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BMRDude BMRDude is offline
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Default 01-11-2017, 04:56 PM

PURE, looks like you are running around 25 psi for 640 hp. Is this the max pressure from your Stage 1 turbo upgrade? or are you still working on testing upper limits?

Apparently you guys also have a Stage 2 turbo upgrade. Any numbers on this yet?
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Pure Turbos Pure Turbos is offline
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Default 01-11-2017, 05:32 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by byebyev8
How much power can the n63 motor handle reliably? Thinking about getting rid of my 335i for one of these.
The power limit is currently unknown. 600+whp is new territory for N63.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BMRDude
PURE, looks like you are running around 25 psi for 640 hp. Is this the max pressure from your Stage 1 turbo upgrade? or are you still working on testing upper limits?

Apparently you guys also have a Stage 2 turbo upgrade. Any numbers on this yet?
That is not max pressure. That test was on pump gas + meth. We don't own an N63 to test with. So we haven't seen any max results yet, using race fuel.

Correct, we do offer Stg2 as well. We haven't seen any results on those yet, though there's a handful of sets out there running on cars. Hopefully we will see some results soon!
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BMRDude BMRDude is offline
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Default 01-11-2017, 05:48 PM

ok, well, that means we will see 700+ at some point soon.
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Pure Turbos Pure Turbos is offline
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Default 01-11-2017, 05:55 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by BMRDude
ok, well, that means we will see 700+ at some point soon.
I won't be surprised. They seem very capable of 700. A few customers mentioned they saw a 700+ dyno result posted of our N63 turbos recently. We haven't been able to confirm or track down the post.
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natecbarrett natecbarrett is offline
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Default pure turbos stage 2 - 01-11-2017, 06:14 PM

Well i just bit the bullit and ordered the pure turbos stage 2 for my n63. I have jb4 with bcm and snow perofmrance dual stage meth kit. should have the turbos show up at my house in a few weeks i hope!! wish me luck everyone!
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Morebs4me Morebs4me is offline
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Default 02-02-2017, 07:02 AM

Is this with no tune? Only jb4 and bcm for upping boost? I'd love but I have a 2013 and can't get a real tune.
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BMRDude BMRDude is offline
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Default 02-02-2017, 02:12 PM

I am currently running 24 psi on stock turbos so I would hope the Pure Stage 1 is good for a few more than 25. I am currently waiting for better charge pipe options from BMS before moving further.
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Craigas Craigas is offline
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Default 03-01-2017, 03:11 PM

Congrats!! What are your real-would impressions in terms of drivability, off idle response, low RPM pull, 1/2 to 3/4 throttle pushes while cruising, do you feel the torque difference when just squeezing the pedal or do you need to really downshift.

I would like to modify my 650i xdrive but don't want to loose driveability and throttle response in
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Craigas Craigas is offline
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Default 03-01-2017, 03:12 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by natecbarrett
Well i just bit the bullit and ordered the pure turbos stage 2 for my n63. I have jb4 with bcm and snow perofmrance dual stage meth kit. should have the turbos show up at my house in a few weeks i hope!! wish me luck everyone!
Any update?
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BMRDude BMRDude is offline
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Default 03-02-2017, 10:40 AM

Craigas... my experience is that general driveability is the same as stock. Off idle, tip in, etc are unchanged.

Differences start to become evident when you get into the throttle more, maybe 1/2 throttle and rpm starts to climb. Torque starts building much more quickly above 2500. It can sometimes surprise me if a downshift occurs unexpectedly causing torque to come up very quickly.

Overall means that my wife can borrow the car and not notice any difference in driveability unless she gets into the throttle... then WOW. If you don't want this to happen, just use steering wheel controls to set Map 4 for stock Map.
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Pure Turbos Pure Turbos is offline
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Default 03-02-2017, 01:48 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by BMRDude
Craigas... my experience is that general driveability is the same as stock. Off idle, tip in, etc are unchanged.

Differences start to become evident when you get into the throttle more, maybe 1/2 throttle and rpm starts to climb. Torque starts building much more quickly above 2500. It can sometimes surprise me if a downshift occurs unexpectedly causing torque to come up very quickly.

Overall means that my wife can borrow the car and not notice any difference in driveability unless she gets into the throttle... then WOW. If you don't want this to happen, just use steering wheel controls to set Map 4 for stock Map.
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Craigas Craigas is offline
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Default 03-02-2017, 04:48 PM

Thanks Dude. This post has confirmed my research that big numbers could not be had without water-meth injection. Moreover, Burger stated (in one post I read) that without bigger turbos for N63 water-meth injection wasn't worth it, but for me finding race gas, etc is a big pain in the butt. I need a 91 octane solution.

Also had difficulty finding bigger turbos. So good to see there is a supplier. Do you know what those stage 1's offer are over stock. That's quite a power increase buts its all in the overall combination (other mods) obviously as well
Then there is the tuning, how did you go about that? And who did the work, I just bought a 2012 650i xdrive with 17K and finding info on mods-install procedures, is a bit painful. thinking a shop manual is in the works.
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BMRDude BMRDude is offline
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Default 03-05-2017, 08:38 PM

Craigas... not sure what you mean by big numbers but if you want to boost higher than 25 you will need turbos and meth. However, I am topping out around 24 without meth. So big increases are possible on stock hardware.

That said, there is a big learning curve to get to these numbers, and tons of testing and logging to review data on timing, temp, boost, efr so you know where you are at and what changes you need to take for the next step.

Your latest post shows step 1 as the JB4 addition, but this is a step that can take months of testing to complete if you want to take it as far as possible before moving to your step 2. This first step is also the biggest part of the learning curve.

in my case I have pump 94 and I have no problem doing some custom fuel mixing to improve octane so I am running around 100 octane to get to 24 psi. However, it may be possible for my stock turbos to go higher than 24, but I am now out of fuel, so for me to safely go higher I will have to either, call it a day, or add meth injection. This is why I was asking Pure how high their Stage 1 turbos will go. Their initial post was only at 25.
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Craigas Craigas is offline
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Default 03-06-2017, 03:40 PM

Big numbers meaning HP-Torque, a relative term for sure.

Regarding your comment "Your latest post shows step 1 as the JB4 addition, but this is a step that can take months of testing to complete if you want to take it as far as possible before moving to your step 2."

Do you mean even going stage 1 takes considerable tuning time and effort, thought this was basically plug and plan, increasing boost safely by ~3 psi...I think you are sayig , nit wanted to confirm that the ~3 psi is plug and play but you could continue to tweak it (5-6) to "take it as far as possible".

My last question, when you say "out of fuel" what do you mean??, for me that usually means fuel pump-delivery limitations. I don't think that's what you mean but I'm new to some of terminology floated about. Can you explain the last paragraph. It looks lik you mean running out of boost capability?
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535_BiTurbo 535_BiTurbo is offline
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Default 03-06-2017, 03:46 PM

Where can I find the 3.5 MAP sensors for the N63?


2012 550i M sport - JB stage 1
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BMRDude BMRDude is offline
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Default 03-06-2017, 06:17 PM

Craigas... yes, when I say months I mean exploring the whole breadth of the functionality in the JB4. You can indeed install in a plug and play manner, select Map 1 and go. This is not how I would recommend you start though. Logging on Map 4 to establish baseline performance is step 1.

However, you are talking about taking your car beyond the limits of the stock turbos, so you will need a very good understanding of the JB4 capabilities as well as understanding what loads and stresses your engine is under in order to take each step. This takes time, logging and testing.

By out of fuel I mean that the BMW ecu has reached the limit of the amount of fuel it will deliver. That is, I have increased boost to a point where the air to fuel ratio starts to go lean and adding more boost just causes it to go more lean because the ecu will no longer increase fuel. On some cars flashes have been developed to flash the fuel tables used by the ecu so more fuel is available. No fuel flash is available for the N63 that I am aware of so this is not an option for us.
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BMRDude BMRDude is offline
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Default 03-06-2017, 06:27 PM

Biturbo... this is where I got mine.

https://www.ecstuning.com/b-genuine-...r/13627843531/

You can add these after you have installed JB4 but you need to tell the JB4 by setting a JB4 parameter. You will need to contact Terry when ready to do it.
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BMRDude BMRDude is offline
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Default 03-06-2017, 06:47 PM

Just another quick note about installing 3.5 bar tmap.

These sensors don't just extend the pressure range but also use an entirely different output voltage range, so they won't work on your car without the JB4. That is, your car won't run without the JB4 converting the voltage levels.
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Craigas Craigas is offline
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Default 03-07-2017, 04:01 PM

Thank you again BMRDude, things are becoming clearer.

"On some cars flashes have been developed to flash the fuel tables used by the ecu so more fuel is available. No fuel flash is available for the N63 that I am aware of so this is not an option for us."

The above surprises me (for multiple reasons), but doesn't that also mean bigger turbos would be of no use if more fuel cannot be added?

One other question regarding meth injection. My first thought was its only a cooling agent (higher octane) but is 100 meth actually combustible as well and is in effect adding fuel?
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Craigas Craigas is offline
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Default 03-07-2017, 04:16 PM

Found this:


http://www.enginebuildermag.com/2012...nol-injection/
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BMRDude BMRDude is offline
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Default 03-07-2017, 04:48 PM

Yes exactly. Going to meth injection allows you to add fuel... methanol.

If you want cooling of the air charge only, then you should simply use 100% water. Water gives double the cooling of methanol. This is a good way to go if you have not reached the fuel limits and you have run out of octane. Gives you more room to add boost.

On this platform, if you want to find the limits you can't be using E85 or large percentages of alcohol to get octane because this causes you to run into fuelling problems much earlier.
So straight 91 or 94 pump gas without any ethanol if you can find it. Then water injection to cool and slow combustion to max out boost. You can go a long way with this, until you run out of fuel that is. Or boost.

If you want info in injection read the N54 sections. Those guys have been doing meth injection for years using the JB to control it. They have more flexibility though because they have back end flashes to alter fueling.
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Craigas Craigas is offline
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Default 03-07-2017, 05:09 PM

Ok got it. My "safe" approach of 91 octane plus 50/50 mix seems to be correct for my phase 2 but raises the question on whether the Pure stage 1 or 2 is worth the extra effort unless 100% meth is used due to fueling-tuning limitations.

And I wonder if my (phase 2) target of 550 hp, 590 torque obtainable without going to different turbos, and other bits a pieces.

Different turbos may add more "efficient" boost lower down in the RPM, and bigger hits up top but may be "ultimately" limited to fueling issue without 100% meth and may not be worth it for my goal of 50/50 91 octane.
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BMRDude BMRDude is offline
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Default 03-07-2017, 06:08 PM

My experience is that each of our situations is different. So if you go beyond the plug and play option, you will need to test, test, test, to determine where and when you can go.

If you jump into a bunch of changes quickly, when something doesn't work as expected, you will be lost.

550 whp is very possible on stage 1, stock hardware except for tmap's.
Hmmm, wait a second. Maybe not. If you are going to run straight 91 with no additives, then 550 is out of reach I think for stage 1. I get carried away because I look at the type of fuel as just another variable that I change to suit what I want to run.

If you stick to 91, you won't get far without water and/or meth injection. I would have to go back thru my logs to find my 94 pump baselines to get some idea of achievable boost levels.

You should also know that 91 or 94 pump is not always the same everywhere. There can be a wide variation in octane between gas stations that you can only finding by trying them. I will also use NOS octane booster as a quick and easy upgrade.

I like the option of Pure turbos, but I need to know the ultimate performance gain possible in order to fit it into my operating conditions. I also want to be able to see how fast they spool vs my stock ones since this will affect Driveability. Not enough info yet.

100% meth is something I have done in my younger years, but I have seen enough meth engine fires to put me off. In my case I will see how far 100% water gets me before considering further options.
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535_BiTurbo 535_BiTurbo is offline
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Default 03-10-2017, 03:52 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pure Turbos
Hey guys,

We set a new N63 power record today with a 2011 550i. Power curve looks great, and power level is impressive for 91 oct + meth.
It may even get close to 700whp with race gas next time around! Overall very impressive considering these V8 twin turbo cars
can be bought for less than $25k! That's a lot of car for the money.

Mods:
-N63 PURE Stg1 Turbo Upgrade
-BMS JB4 w/ BCM
-3.5bar tmap sensors
-Meth kit
-Intake + Exhaust
-Heavy 21" wheels

Attachment 56809

Attachment 56803

Attachment 56802

Attachment 56801

Attachment 56804

Attachment 56805

how much do these units run?

How difficult is the turbo swap?

Im thinking of finding some used units and sending them off to Pure or going with some Alpina or N63tu units and swapping them out.


2012 550i M sport - JB stage 1
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