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Jason415 Jason415 is offline
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Default 11-21-2019, 12:24 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Serstylz2
a 3 gear pull like 2nd-4th or 3rd-5th is best for logging. you'll need some space but it can be done, especially on on-ramps to highways.

An FYI. Map 0 is 'disabled', you have the JB4 turned off and are running just from the stock ecu

You'll see AFR spikes at some shifts, but at WOT during the data log you should be between 11-13
Ahh. Alrighty. I'll try to do a 3rd gear pull in a safe area. Maybe when I get off work later.

Oooh. I didn't know the AFR spikes can be caused by shifting too. When I data log later, I'll keep an eye for AFR 11-13 at WOT.

Thank you so much for the reply! Much appreciated.

By the way: I notice you got a 2019 Q50 Luxe too. Same as me. I hope the car is treating you well. Curious - what Map are you using on JB4?
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Lonmon Lonmon is offline
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Default 11-21-2019, 12:31 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jason415
Ohhh. I didn't know the AFR spike to 25 is from deceleration.

Is there a specific gear or MPH I need to get to for the WOT pull?

And I have a curious question: The log for the WOT is to check AFR spikes during WOT and full boost, right? Does this mean the AFR spikes during WOT and full boost is bad? What AFRs are you looking for during WOT and full boost?

Thank you so much for your help, honestly. I'm just trying to learn.
Welcome to learning about tuning/logging! I would highly recommend as homework starting at the beginning of this thread and just reading through the posts all the way to here now. Its a lot of info but it helps understand how the development of the JB1 to JB4 evolved and how they work. You will see a lot of other similar questions asked and answered. It will take some time to go through 4000+ posts but it is worth it. I too tried to dive right in (although I have tuned cars and have a long automotive background) but it was very helpful to really learn how the JB4 works and what it does. It probably took me 4-5 days an hour or so at a time to go through it all. You can obviously skim over or skip the BS posts. It is hard to teach someone all the ins and outs of logging and adjusting the JB4 in a few sentences as there are a lot of factors. You will pick up most of the important facts and opinions pretty quickly and the rest over time/repetition. The most important thing with upping the boost is to start slow, don't make any big changes, and have your logs checked before you go any further. The better the fuel, the safer it will be to add boost (within reason).


2016 Q50 Premium 3.0t AWD
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ddnspider ddnspider is offline
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Default 11-21-2019, 12:44 PM

Also note that the 1st gear that youre at WOT you'll likely seen a leaner AFR initially to help spool the turbo...


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Jason415 Jason415 is offline
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Default 11-21-2019, 01:38 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lonmon
Welcome to learning about tuning/logging! I would highly recommend as homework starting at the beginning of this thread and just reading through the posts all the way to here now. Its a lot of info but it helps understand how the development of the JB1 to JB4 evolved and how they work. You will see a lot of other similar questions asked and answered. It will take some time to go through 4000+ posts but it is worth it. I too tried to dive right in (although I have tuned cars and have a long automotive background) but it was very helpful to really learn how the JB4 works and what it does. It probably took me 4-5 days an hour or so at a time to go through it all. You can obviously skim over or skip the BS posts. It is hard to teach someone all the ins and outs of logging and adjusting the JB4 in a few sentences as there are a lot of factors. You will pick up most of the important facts and opinions pretty quickly and the rest over time/repetition. The most important thing with upping the boost is to start slow, don't make any big changes, and have your logs checked before you go any further. The better the fuel, the safer it will be to add boost (within reason).
Thanks for the warm welcome.

I will definitely consider going through a good portion of the posts here to learn a bit more when I have time.

Even with how easy the installation was for the JB4 - there is a definitely a learning curve for everything afterwards. Especially since I have never messed with Turbo or tuning cars before.
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Jason415 Jason415 is offline
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Default 11-21-2019, 01:40 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by ddnspider
Also note that the 1st gear that youre at WOT you'll likely seen a leaner AFR initially to help spool the turbo...
Ohhh. Wait. Just making sure I'm understanding this clearly:

When I'm pulling on 1st gear WOT, its normal to see leaner AFR numbers because its helping the turbo spool up?

Does that mean these AFR numbers then to drop down to 11-13 in 3rd-4th gear WOT? Is that why we always log in 3rd-4th gear?

Thanks in advance, by the way.
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Lonmon Lonmon is offline
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Default 11-21-2019, 01:59 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jason415
Ohhh. Wait. Just making sure I'm understanding this clearly:

When I'm pulling on 1st gear WOT, its normal to see leaner AFR numbers because its helping the turbo spool up?

Does that mean these AFR numbers then to drop down to 11-13 in 3rd-4th gear WOT? Is that why we always log in 3rd-4th gear?

Thanks in advance, by the way.
Its not just in 1st gear, what he was saying that the first gear you apply full throttle to in a log may show an area at the beginning of the pull that may look lean. This lean spot is the factory mapping trying to aid in spooling the turbo. We call it "lean spool". It is best for you to simply log full throttle as was suggested to you and then let us look at them for you to explain if there is anything you should be concerned about. Then you can ask questions about things we point out to you specifically. You will learn over time what to look for and what to ignore/not worry about. Also note that the JB4 only changes factory mapping when close to or at full throttle. Your normal start up, idle and cruising mapping is not affected in any way. That is why you only need to concern yourself with logging wide open throttle runs. The only exception to this is if you are having a problem after installing a component and a log may help diagnose what that problem is being caused by. (IE - new intake, heat exchanger, blow off valves, etc).


2016 Q50 Premium 3.0t AWD
K&N drop ins
Megan Racing Lowers
Megan Racing Y p!p3
BMS Heat Exchanger
JB4 W/fuel wires Map 6 custom
E20ish mix made 413whp 410wtq (17-18psi peak)
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Terry @ BMS Terry @ BMS is offline
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Default 11-21-2019, 05:42 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lonmon
Its not just in 1st gear, what he was saying that the first gear you apply full throttle to in a log may show an area at the beginning of the pull that may look lean. This lean spot is the factory mapping trying to aid in spooling the turbo. We call it "lean spool". It is best for you to simply log full throttle as was suggested to you and then let us look at them for you to explain if there is anything you should be concerned about. Then you can ask questions about things we point out to you specifically. You will learn over time what to look for and what to ignore/not worry about. Also note that the JB4 only changes factory mapping when close to or at full throttle. Your normal start up, idle and cruising mapping is not affected in any way. That is why you only need to concern yourself with logging wide open throttle runs. The only exception to this is if you are having a problem after installing a component and a log may help diagnose what that problem is being caused by. (IE - new intake, heat exchanger, blow off valves, etc).
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Jason415 Jason415 is offline
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Default 11-21-2019, 10:01 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lonmon
Its not just in 1st gear, what he was saying that the first gear you apply full throttle to in a log may show an area at the beginning of the pull that may look lean. This lean spot is the factory mapping trying to aid in spooling the turbo. We call it "lean spool". It is best for you to simply log full throttle as was suggested to you and then let us look at them for you to explain if there is anything you should be concerned about. Then you can ask questions about things we point out to you specifically. You will learn over time what to look for and what to ignore/not worry about. Also note that the JB4 only changes factory mapping when close to or at full throttle. Your normal start up, idle and cruising mapping is not affected in any way. That is why you only need to concern yourself with logging wide open throttle runs. The only exception to this is if you are having a problem after installing a component and a log may help diagnose what that problem is being caused by. (IE - new intake, heat exchanger, blow off valves, etc).
Thanks for clearing that up. I thought he meant "first gear" as in 1st gear, not the first gear you actually apply full throttle to.

Ahh. I actually didn't know that or ever heard of it. I didn't know the factory map actually causes this to help the turbo spool up. Will do. I will find time to do a data log within the next couple of days or so. I was planning to do it today but got kept up at work and was too lazy to do it on the way home.

The JB4 only changes the factory mapping when near or at full throttle? I didn't know that. I do have a follow up question for that though just to make sure I'm understanding it correctly:
So for example - if you are on Map 1 and its +4 PSI peak. If your car is not at near or full throttle, you won't get the +4 PSI peak of boost? So if your is just cruising or you are daily driving, you are just getting the standard ECU factory PSI?
And because we need to be at WOT for JB4 to add boost, is that why we look for AFR numbers between 11-13 during WOT in order for it to be normal?

I wanna say thank you so much for taking the time to respond and typing out some helpful information for me. I truly appreciate it.
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Lonmon Lonmon is offline
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Default 11-21-2019, 10:32 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jason415
Thanks for clearing that up. I thought he meant "first gear" as in 1st gear, not the first gear you actually apply full throttle to.

Ahh. I actually didn't know that or ever heard of it. I didn't know the factory map actually causes this to help the turbo spool up. Will do. I will find time to do a data log within the next couple of days or so. I was planning to do it today but got kept up at work and was too lazy to do it on the way home.

The JB4 only changes the factory mapping when near or at full throttle? I didn't know that. I do have a follow up question for that though just to make sure I'm understanding it correctly:
So for example - if you are on Map 1 and its +4 PSI peak. If your car is not at near or full throttle, you won't get the +4 PSI peak of boost? So if your is just cruising or you are daily driving, you are just getting the standard ECU factory PSI?
And because we need to be at WOT for JB4 to add boost, is that why we look for AFR numbers between 11-13 during WOT in order for it to be normal?

I wanna say thank you so much for taking the time to respond and typing out some helpful information for me. I truly appreciate it.
Yes. Regardless of what map you're on, the JB4 only adds boost you need to be concerned with when near or at full throttle. Air to fuel ratio (AFR) ideally is usually at about 14-15 when at idle and cruising (also lean spool), higher when under decel (up to 25), and lower when under heavy throttle (as low as 10). That is a constant, not just when the JB4 is working. We look at the AFR under full throttle when adding boost to make sure it is staying safe. Normally you would not need to monitor this on a stock boost setting but when adding more boost then stock it is wise to log and monitor AFR under WOT to make sure you are not over doing it or there is an issue. We also monitor timing to make sure there are no sudden large drops when WOT particularly when peak boost is reached to redline.


2016 Q50 Premium 3.0t AWD
K&N drop ins
Megan Racing Lowers
Megan Racing Y p!p3
BMS Heat Exchanger
JB4 W/fuel wires Map 6 custom
E20ish mix made 413whp 410wtq (17-18psi peak)

Last edited by Lonmon; 11-25-2019 at 11:42 AM..
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Jason415 Jason415 is offline
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Default 11-22-2019, 11:25 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lonmon
Yes. Regardless of what map you're on, the JB4 only adds boost when at full throttle. Air to fuel ratio (AFR) ideally is usually at about 14-15 when at idle and cruising (also lean spool), higher when under decel (up to 25), and lower when under heavy throttle (as low as 10). That is a constant, not just when the JB4 is working. We look at the AFR under full throttle when adding boost to make sure it is staying safe. Normally you would not need to monitor this on a stock boost setting but when adding more boost then stock it is wise to log and monitor AFR under WOT to make sure you are not over doing it or there is an issue. We also monitor timing to make sure there are no sudden large drops when WOT particularly when peak boost is reached to redline.
I honestly didn't know that. Before - I thought JB4 adds the extra peak boost all the time. I didn't know it was only during full throttle.

I didn't know those AFR numbers were constant numbers fixed to idle, cruising, decel and under heavy throttle too.

You telling me its constant makes sense and clears everything up for me. I can see now that measuring the AFR under Map 1 or higher at WOT is to check if the AFR numbers are constant with the AFR numbers when JB4 is not working in order to make sure its safe.

Thank you so much for all your help and providing me with information that I otherwise would never know.
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T2019Q50S T2019Q50S is offline
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Default 11-24-2019, 07:32 AM

Actually, that is not correct. I posted this question in another thread about partial throttle. The JB4 does add additional boost during partial throttle acceleration but it is tapered accordingly.
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aiexbadboy aiexbadboy is offline
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Default 11-24-2019, 11:32 AM

where do i download pc software for jb1?
how often do bms release new fw or new map?
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Default 11-24-2019, 12:31 PM

Look at the 1st post for details. The firmware for JB1 and JB4 are NOT interchangeable - so double check before flashing. JB1 firmware has been at a stable release for awhile.


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aiexbadboy aiexbadboy is offline
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Default 11-24-2019, 01:38 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by jrobohm
Look at the 1st post for details. The firmware for JB1 and JB4 are NOT interchangeable - so double check before flashing. JB1 firmware has been at a stable release for awhile.
thanks i was looking hard in the first post didnt pay attention to
"BMS data cable hard wired windows software Click here",
somehow didnt read the word "software" in that sentence lol
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Lonmon Lonmon is offline
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Default 11-24-2019, 08:34 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by T2019Q50S
Actually, that is not correct. I posted this question in another thread about partial throttle. The JB4 does add additional boost during partial throttle acceleration but it is tapered accordingly.
You are correct. I was trying to more get across the point that you will not see much beyond the stock boost target unless at full throttle. It does taper in the boost with throttle percentage but it is unlikely to see much over stock at partial throttle. If you look at logs you will not see much boost added until full throttle. I will admit that I could have chosen my words better and stand corrected. I modified my post above to reflect better what I meant. Thanks!


2016 Q50 Premium 3.0t AWD
K&N drop ins
Megan Racing Lowers
Megan Racing Y p!p3
BMS Heat Exchanger
JB4 W/fuel wires Map 6 custom
E20ish mix made 413whp 410wtq (17-18psi peak)

Last edited by Lonmon; 11-25-2019 at 11:43 AM..
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Jason415 Jason415 is offline
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Default 11-24-2019, 11:38 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by T2019Q50S
Actually, that is not correct. I posted this question in another thread about partial throttle. The JB4 does add additional boost during partial throttle acceleration but it is tapered accordingly.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lonmon
You are correct. I was trying to more get across the point that you will not see much beyond the stock boost target unless at full throttle. It does taper in the boost with throttle percentage but it is unlikely to see much over stock at partial throttle. If you look at logs you will not see much boost added until full throttle. I will admit that I could have chosen my words better and stand corrected.
Ohh. So JB4 does add boost when its even partial throttle. These would be minor boost increases, right? Regardless of what Map you are on? IE: If its Map 1 (+4 PSI Peak), it wouldn't add 4 PSI, right? It'll be just be a little bit under partial throttle?

Even though boost is added at partial throttle, we still look at the AFR under full throttle when adding boost to make sure it is staying safe, right?
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Serstylz2 Serstylz2 is offline
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Default 11-25-2019, 07:19 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jason415
Ahh. Alrighty. I'll try to do a 3rd gear pull in a safe area. Maybe when I get off work later.

Oooh. I didn't know the AFR spikes can be caused by shifting too. When I data log later, I'll keep an eye for AFR 11-13 at WOT.

Thank you so much for the reply! Much appreciated.

By the way: I notice you got a 2019 Q50 Luxe too. Same as me. I hope the car is treating you well. Curious - what Map are you using on JB4?
With it being boost season, whe I have my JB4 enabled, I run Map 6 primarily. Car runs smooth, pulls hard and is responsive across the power band


2019 Q50 Luxe RWD *JB4 with Fuel Wires*BMS Intakes*AMS Downers*Frozen Boost 101*Megan Y Pipe
423 whp, 450 tq at 16.8psi with E30/JB4/FW/Intakes
12.64 @113mph
0-60 4.46
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Lonmon Lonmon is offline
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Default 11-25-2019, 11:35 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jason415
Ohh. So JB4 does add boost when its even partial throttle. These would be minor boost increases, right? Regardless of what Map you are on? IE: If its Map 1 (+4 PSI Peak), it wouldn't add 4 PSI, right? It'll be just be a little bit under partial throttle?

Even though boost is added at partial throttle, we still look at the AFR under full throttle when adding boost to make sure it is staying safe, right?
It does add some at partial throttle but it is a percentage depending on how far into the throttle you are and how much boost you have requested at that rpm increment (what map your on). I actually left this out because I did not want it to be over complicated for you. You don't need to concern yourself with what the JB4 adds at less then full throttle in most cases. It should not be enough to cause any issue. We generally do not look at logs at less then full throttle for this reason. It doesn't hurt to take a peak at cruise and partial throttle logs but since these vehicles are close to stock with stock turbos only running 3-6psi over stock for the most part, we have very little chance of running lean or having knock present at partial throttle. (getting a bad batch of fuel or having a mechanical issue would be the only exceptions I can think of)


2016 Q50 Premium 3.0t AWD
K&N drop ins
Megan Racing Lowers
Megan Racing Y p!p3
BMS Heat Exchanger
JB4 W/fuel wires Map 6 custom
E20ish mix made 413whp 410wtq (17-18psi peak)

Last edited by Lonmon; 11-25-2019 at 02:25 PM..
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Jason415 Jason415 is offline
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Default 11-25-2019, 02:07 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Serstylz2
With it being boost season, whe I have my JB4 enabled, I run Map 6 primarily. Car runs smooth, pulls hard and is responsive across the power band
Ahh. I was curious because I noticed we have the same car.
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Jason415 Jason415 is offline
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Default 11-25-2019, 02:14 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lonmon
It does add some at partial throttle but it is a percentage depending on how far into the throttle you are and how much boost you have requested at that rpm increment (what map your on). I actually left this out because I did not want it to be over complicated for you. You don't need to concern yourself with what the JB4 adds under full throttle in most cases. It should not be enough to cause any issue. We generally do not look at logs under full throttle for this reason. It doesn't hurt to take a peak at cruise and partial throttle logs but since these vehicles are close to stock with stock turbos only running 3-6psi over stock for the most part, we have very little chance of running lean or having knock present at partial throttle. (getting a bad batch of fuel or having a mechanical issue would be the only exceptions I can think of)
That's a good thing. Since I'm still new, it would be better to keep things simple! Thanks for that.

Wait. Just a follow up question. If we generally do not look at logs at full throttle because in most cases it won't be enough to cause any issues. Then why did you earlier stated that we have to look at AFRs at full throttle to make sure the boost is staying safe?

Do we look at for just in case?
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Lonmon Lonmon is offline
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Default 11-25-2019, 02:24 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jason415
That's a good thing. Since I'm still new, it would be better to keep things simple! Thanks for that.

Wait. Just a follow up question. If we generally do not look at logs at full throttle because in most cases it won't be enough to cause any issues. Then why did you earlier stated that we have to look at AFRs at full throttle to make sure the boost is staying safe?

Do we look at for just in case?
To clear that up I said "under full throttle", I meant less then, not at full throttle. I can see how that could be confusing. I changed what I wrote to "at less then full throttle" to clear that up. LOL


2016 Q50 Premium 3.0t AWD
K&N drop ins
Megan Racing Lowers
Megan Racing Y p!p3
BMS Heat Exchanger
JB4 W/fuel wires Map 6 custom
E20ish mix made 413whp 410wtq (17-18psi peak)
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Serstylz2 Serstylz2 is offline
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Default 11-25-2019, 02:43 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jason415
Ahh. I was curious because I noticed we have the same car.
If you have access to 93 octane and some supporting mods, try this map out


2019 Q50 Luxe RWD *JB4 with Fuel Wires*BMS Intakes*AMS Downers*Frozen Boost 101*Megan Y Pipe
423 whp, 450 tq at 16.8psi with E30/JB4/FW/Intakes
12.64 @113mph
0-60 4.46
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Jason415 Jason415 is offline
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Default 11-25-2019, 03:19 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Serstylz2
If you have access to 93 octane and some supporting mods, try this map out
Sadly I don't have access to 93 Oct.

Only got 91 Oct. I wish I had 93 Oct though.
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Jason415 Jason415 is offline
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Default 11-25-2019, 03:29 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lonmon
To clear that up I said "under full throttle", I meant less then, not at full throttle. I can see how that could be confusing. I changed what I wrote to "at less then full throttle" to clear that up. LOL
Lol. That's clears it up for sure. I was pretty confused. Since people do say "under full throttle", with the term "under" being used to reference at full throttle or below full throttle.

This makes sense now. You don't really check at below full throttle because its not enough to cause problems. But you check at full throttle to make sure its safe.

Thanks again for your help!
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Mr.moosh Mr.moosh is online now
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Default 11-25-2019, 10:13 PM

Hey Terry(or anyone ) how do these logs look. Running 91+e85 for E30.
Attached Files
File Type: csv 0_2019-11-25 20_55_44_Map-6.csv (18.1 KB, 12 views)
File Type: csv 0_2019-11-25 20_51_40_Map-6.csv (12.2 KB, 8 views)
File Type: csv 0_2019-11-25 20_52_27_Map-6.csv (6.5 KB, 7 views)
File Type: csv 0_2019-11-25 20_54_49_Map-6.csv (11.0 KB, 11 views)
File Type: csv 1574744871275_0_2019-11-25 20_55_44_Map-6.csv (18.1 KB, 9 views)


2017 Q60 3.0TT

Megan Lower down pipe
Custom 2.5" Magnaflow Exhaust
AMS Intakes
FrozenBoost 101
HKS BOVs
Crappy tires
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