N54Tech.com - International Turbo Racing Discussion
(#1)
Old
skirmozas's Avatar
skirmozas skirmozas is offline
Junior Member
 
Posts: 115
Join Date: May 2017
Car: 2010 N54 BMW 135i
Default Can I make 600hp on N54 without E85? - 07-14-2017, 04:33 PM

Hi guys,

I'm wondering how much power could I make without E85 on my N54 engine? Ultimately my goal would be 550-600 hp. Sorry if this was discussed before, but I didn't manage to find any similar thread. I'm currently living in the UK, and E85 is not available in gas stations... What upgrades would I need to get to reach my goal? With what I have now next upgrades that I'm looking at will be IC and meth injection. Planning for hybrid turbos as well, it's definitely going to be something to upgrade in order to get closer towards my goals, if they're reachable without E85 of course. Appreciate your opinions and comments.

Current mods:
3" ***
JB4 G5 ISO
BMS DCI
Mishimoto OCC
2step relay

Regards
Reply With Quote
(#2)
Old
N54QC N54QC is offline
Senior Member
 
Posts: 774
Join Date: Jan 2016
Car: 07 BMW 335i
Default 07-14-2017, 04:53 PM

With a lot of meth, it is achievable.


VTT Stage 2+ | JB4 G5 w/ Trebila BEF | Fuel-It Stage 3 | XHP Stage 3 | BL Coils | VTT Inlets | MMP Outlets | BMS Meth Dual 10/5CM | VRSF 7" FMIC | VRSF **'s | BMS CP | BMS DCI | Turbosmart Dual Port | 3.5 TMAP | BMS OCC | VTT PVC | BMS Anti-Lag | NGK 5992 | M3 Rear Upper Controls And Godspeed TB's | Lock-Down Brace | 235/285-18 PSS
Reply With Quote
(#3)
Old
JM35's Avatar
JM35 JM35 is offline
Oner
 
Posts: 11
Join Date: Jun 2017
Car: 08' 135i
Default 07-14-2017, 05:02 PM

^ +1. You can do it without E85, but you will have to run a lot of meth. On top of upgrading your turbos and inlets and outlets.

A bigger single turbo setup would do the trick too.


2008 BMW 135i - 6spd - Sport Pkg
My build blog: https://bmwtuning.co
BMS DCI | JB4 |BMS Cowls | Matte Black Grills | +more to come
Reply With Quote
(#4)
Old
victor247 victor247 is offline
Junior Member
 
Posts: 94
Join Date: Jul 2016
Car: 2008 335i Vert
Default 07-14-2017, 06:09 PM

What if he ran port injection and a pump?


2008 335i E93 Single turbo
Reply With Quote
(#5)
Old
N54QC N54QC is offline
Senior Member
 
Posts: 774
Join Date: Jan 2016
Car: 07 BMW 335i
Default 07-14-2017, 06:48 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by victor247
What if he ran port injection and a pump?
He would still be octane limited unless he's planning to run race gas. Definitely would be a good idea to run port meth injection if you are looking for numbers that high.


VTT Stage 2+ | JB4 G5 w/ Trebila BEF | Fuel-It Stage 3 | XHP Stage 3 | BL Coils | VTT Inlets | MMP Outlets | BMS Meth Dual 10/5CM | VRSF 7" FMIC | VRSF **'s | BMS CP | BMS DCI | Turbosmart Dual Port | 3.5 TMAP | BMS OCC | VTT PVC | BMS Anti-Lag | NGK 5992 | M3 Rear Upper Controls And Godspeed TB's | Lock-Down Brace | 235/285-18 PSS
Reply With Quote
(#6)
Old
Venom77's Avatar
Venom77 Venom77 is offline
Senior Member
 
Posts: 580
Join Date: Oct 2015
Car: 335I
Default 07-14-2017, 10:34 PM

Ive seen 600whp on 91 with a 6266 or 6466 (cant remember). So yes its doable. Idk how safe it is tho. Maybe on 93oct it would be better.


Garrett Gtw 6465, Supporting mods , Mhd/Jb4
Reply With Quote
(#7)
Old
skirmozas's Avatar
skirmozas skirmozas is offline
Junior Member
 
Posts: 115
Join Date: May 2017
Car: 2010 N54 BMW 135i
Default 07-15-2017, 03:55 AM

Thanks for the feedback - the problem without E85 I'm always going to hit is low octane. Maybe I'll be able to get some racing fuel from time to time, probably 100 octane. I want the power to be as safe as possible and I don't intend to blow up the engine. I've got some questions too:

1. If I put a single turbo, I get more boost. This doesn't mean though that I can use all of this boost to raise power as I run into detonation. So how is this a valid point?
2. Port injection - I thought it's meant to supply increased fuel demand when running E85, what good would it do if I added port injection when simply running 93 or race fuel?
3. Port meth injection ? Sounds like a brilliant idea, has anyone seen it implemented on N54? Does anyone sell such kits for N54 meth port injection? Would it work with JB4 somehow?
Reply With Quote
(#8)
Old
ajsalida ajsalida is offline
Junior Member
 
Posts: 302
Join Date: Mar 2013
Car: e92 335xi
Default 07-15-2017, 05:12 AM

http://www.bimmerboost.com/showthrea...eel-horsepower
Reply With Quote
(#9)
Old
N54QC N54QC is offline
Senior Member
 
Posts: 774
Join Date: Jan 2016
Car: 07 BMW 335i
Default 07-17-2017, 01:22 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by skirmozas
Thanks for the feedback - the problem without E85 I'm always going to hit is low octane. Maybe I'll be able to get some racing fuel from time to time, probably 100 octane. I want the power to be as safe as possible and I don't intend to blow up the engine. I've got some questions too:

1. If I put a single turbo, I get more boost. This doesn't mean though that I can use all of this boost to raise power as I run into detonation. So how is this a valid point?
2. Port injection - I thought it's meant to supply increased fuel demand when running E85, what good would it do if I added port injection when simply running 93 or race fuel?
3. Port meth injection ? Sounds like a brilliant idea, has anyone seen it implemented on N54? Does anyone sell such kits for N54 meth port injection? Would it work with JB4 somehow?
1.Yes you can run a single with a lot of boost and make 550 - 600hp. How safe it is, you would have to log and see. More than likely you would need a supplemental fuel to run that kind of power safely.
2. Running port injection on 93 wouldn't do you much good because you would be octane limited. As far as race gas, you could make that kind of power without having a port injection kit but you would be limited on running higher boost unless you are always throwing race gas in the tank. Plus, race gas creates more heat when burned.
3. There are plenty of port injection meth kits out there for the N54. Probably the best one on the market is the Fuel-it kit. http://www.fuel-it.biz/direct-port-m...equipped-cars/ Steve and Terry work hand and hand to provide setups that are proven and have several JB4 integrations so you have lots of safeties that work in the background with these kits.


VTT Stage 2+ | JB4 G5 w/ Trebila BEF | Fuel-It Stage 3 | XHP Stage 3 | BL Coils | VTT Inlets | MMP Outlets | BMS Meth Dual 10/5CM | VRSF 7" FMIC | VRSF **'s | BMS CP | BMS DCI | Turbosmart Dual Port | 3.5 TMAP | BMS OCC | VTT PVC | BMS Anti-Lag | NGK 5992 | M3 Rear Upper Controls And Godspeed TB's | Lock-Down Brace | 235/285-18 PSS
Reply With Quote
(#10)
Old
Xshadows Xshadows is offline
Junior Member
 
Posts: 303
Join Date: Mar 2013
Car: 2008 135i
Default 07-18-2017, 08:12 AM

I made 560whp on 93 pump gas with my DocRace 6266 setup - no meth, just ethanol free 93.


DocRace Top Mount w/ Precision BB 6266 - JB4 G5 - BMS Pump flash - 650HP AD-E Intercooler - BERK Race Exhaust - Fuel-It Stage 2 Fuel pump - ER Chargepipe w/ TIAL BOV - 560whp @ 20psi on 93 octane only
Reply With Quote
(#11)
Old
Torgus Torgus is offline
Junior Member
 
Posts: 496
Join Date: Jul 2013
Car: 335xi
Default 07-18-2017, 09:07 AM

All you need is a single turbo and 93 octane. If you want more than 600 whp you will need to run meth, preferably direct port if you want 700 or above.


E92 ACF 6466 + AM Meth / E70 #1 / E70 #2 JBD

Got Boost?
Reply With Quote
(#12)
Old
xQx xQx is offline
Junior Member
 
Posts: 95
Join Date: Dec 2016
Car: 2008 BMW 135i E88 N54 6AT
Default 07-18-2017, 07:15 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by skirmozas
3. Port meth injection ? Sounds like a brilliant idea, has anyone seen it implemented on N54? Does anyone sell such kits for N54 meth port injection? Would it work with JB4 somehow?
Yes, I've looked at this closely. It's tried, true and tested.
For: Higher dyno figures than dual nozzle due to better distribution between cylinders.
Against: about $2,000 more expensive than dual nozzle. Difficulty in detecting if only one of your six nozzles fails, leaving normal bank-wide AFR's but a very bad situation in one cylinder.

Unless you've got big money or are seriously chasing dyno figures you might be better off with the traditional dual-nozzle setup (put the money you save onto bigger turbos).
Reply With Quote
(#13)
Old
Limpmode's Avatar
Limpmode Limpmode is offline
Junior Member
 
Posts: 90
Join Date: Jul 2016
Car: 2007 E90 335i
Default 07-18-2017, 07:41 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by N54QC
1.Yes you can run a single with a lot of boost and make 550 - 600hp. How safe it is, you would have to log and see. More than likely you would need a supplemental fuel to run that kind of power safely.
Meth is a supplemental fuel.
You would have to log to find out how much meth to water ratio you need to meet fueling demands (meth), and how much water to meet knock suppression requirements. Plus the added benefits of intake charge cooling!


07 335i; JB4, Anti Lag, MHD BEF, BMS DCI, Phoenix CP, Tial BOV, MAP OC, BMS OCC, 1320 Down *****, MMP Inlets, RB Ext PCV, Mishimoto OCC, BMS Meth, N20 TMAP, VTT stock+billet comp wheels, Blk124 Wheels (5series take offs staggered), 275/35/18
Reply With Quote
(#14)
Old
Steve @ BMS/Fuel-It!'s Avatar
Steve @ BMS/Fuel-It! Steve @ BMS/Fuel-It! is offline
Tuner
 
Posts: 18,477
Join Date: Oct 2012
Car: 135i
Default 07-18-2017, 07:49 PM

Direct port meth injection is running in quite a few vehicles and has been for a while now.

When running straight pump gas and meth on upgraded (hybrid) turbos, you will need to run quite a bit of meth not only to supplement the HPFP but also get enough octane.

If you're on a budget...check out our new DIY Port Injection Kit options.

http://www.fuel-it.biz/n54-diy-port-injection-kit/



Click on our banner to visit our website!
Video of our Stage 2 LPFP upgrade installation.

BMS products labeled for use only in competition racing vehicles may only be used on competition racing vehicles operated exclusively on a closed course in conjunction with a sanctioned racing event, in accordance with all federal and state laws, and may never be operated on public roads/highways.
Reply With Quote
(#15)
Old
08_335i 08_335i is offline
Junior Member
 
Posts: 298
Join Date: Dec 2015
Car: 2008 335i
Default 07-19-2017, 01:21 PM

Without E85 on just pump, you'd be limited to 500-600 depending on 91 or 93, and altitude. Would also need to be ST to acheive those safely on just pump. Add meth into the picture and you can get pretty far up there with big nozzle port setup.
Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump




vBulletin Skin developed by: vBStyles.com
Copyright 2007 - 2020, N54tech.com