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DCTepper DCTepper is offline
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Default 03-09-2011, 12:40 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bimmer Barney
Oh, ok well maybe I didn't miss it then. Terry - can you chime in? To me this seems like a major flaw. If the "learned data" is essentially erased every time I switch away from Map 5, and only with multiple WOT 3rd/4th gear pulls is data re-collected, then how is this really an "autotune" map? That means I have to go do multiple blasts up to 100mph to get it dialed in; sure it's fun, but also not very practical.

Does the "learned data" get erased when you turn off the car? Also, if learning only occurs at WOT in 3rd/4th, then what is the default psi when you first switch to Map 5? Does it start high and taper down? or start low and boost up? If the former, then this could potentially create and unsafe environment in a WOT 1st/2nd gear run prior to any learning.

I'm being critical, yes, but I also am a big supporter and believer at this point, so please consider it constructive criticism/input.

Thanks,
+1 Even though I didn't switch maps I had to disconnect my battery yesterday, did this erase what had been learned?
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Terry @ BMS's Avatar
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Default 03-09-2011, 12:49 PM

autoPID is enabled for all maps and never resets. Map 5 learned values reset each time you select map 5 to close to map 1 levels. Then goes up and down from there. If you don't want map5 to reset its learning then don't pick another map.


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It is the sole responsibility of the purchaser and installer of any BMS part to employ the correct installation techniques required to ensure the proper operation of BMS parts, and BMS disclaims any and all liability for any part failure due to improper installation or use. It is the sole responsibility of the customer to verify that the use of their vehicle and items purchased comply with federal, state and local regulations. BMS claims no legal federal, state or local certification concerning pollution controlled motor vehicles or mandated emissions requirements. BMS products labeled for use only in competition racing vehicles may only be used on competition racing vehicles operated exclusively on a closed course in conjunction with a sanctioned racing event, in accordance with all federal and state laws, and may never be operated on public roads/highways. Please click here for more information on legal requirements related to use of BMS parts.
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Bimmer Barney Bimmer Barney is offline
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Default 03-09-2011, 12:54 PM

Thanks for responding so quickly Terry. Can you define the following in more basic terms please? I admit I'm still ignorant to the technical side of tuning.

autoPID is enabled on all maps - what does this mean, maybe provide an example

Also, can you address the question of turning off the car re: erasing the "learned data?" Again, I know a lot of the guys on here are well versed, and you're the top dog of this clan, but I'm a noob and would appreciate some edumacating

Thanks,
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DCTepper DCTepper is offline
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Default 03-09-2011, 12:56 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Terry @ BMS
If you don't want map5 to reset its learning then don't pick another map.
Sometimes we don't have an option Mr. Gotta Switch to Map 0 to Read/Delete Codes j/k

I am curious to learn more about how Map 5 "learns." Does it incrementally add more and more boost until it sees knock and then dials it back (kinda like I would if I were tuning manually)?
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Default 03-09-2011, 12:57 PM

Values are stored to nonvolatile memory, so you can turn off the car, remove the JB4 all together, etc, and they will remain saved.

autoPID is the boost control function of autolearning which is active for all maps, including map 5. It doesn't need to reset when changing maps because the DME trims have little impact on it. Autolearning on map 5 must reset because the JB4 can't predict how the DME trims have changed with whatever map you switched to. Because of that we want it to always start from a somewhat conservative perspective.


Burger Motorsports
Home of the JB4 the worlds most popular turbocharged tuning system!

It is the sole responsibility of the purchaser and installer of any BMS part to employ the correct installation techniques required to ensure the proper operation of BMS parts, and BMS disclaims any and all liability for any part failure due to improper installation or use. It is the sole responsibility of the customer to verify that the use of their vehicle and items purchased comply with federal, state and local regulations. BMS claims no legal federal, state or local certification concerning pollution controlled motor vehicles or mandated emissions requirements. BMS products labeled for use only in competition racing vehicles may only be used on competition racing vehicles operated exclusively on a closed course in conjunction with a sanctioned racing event, in accordance with all federal and state laws, and may never be operated on public roads/highways. Please click here for more information on legal requirements related to use of BMS parts.
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Default 03-09-2011, 12:58 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by DCTepper
Sometimes we don't have an option Mr. Gotta Switch to Map 0 to Read/Delete Codes j/k

I am curious to learn more about how Map 5 "learns." Does it incrementally add more and more boost until it sees knock and then dials it back (kinda like I would if I were tuning manually)?
Basically. Although it looks for 3 degree timing dips which are precursors to knock. So you never are actually knocking. You can log/watch the "avg ign" value which is a 0-15 integer representing the aggression level and see how it moves with various octanes, conditions, etc.

You can read/delete codes from the dash or laptop interface without switching maps. You only need to go to map 0 for reading with a BT.


Burger Motorsports
Home of the JB4 the worlds most popular turbocharged tuning system!

It is the sole responsibility of the purchaser and installer of any BMS part to employ the correct installation techniques required to ensure the proper operation of BMS parts, and BMS disclaims any and all liability for any part failure due to improper installation or use. It is the sole responsibility of the customer to verify that the use of their vehicle and items purchased comply with federal, state and local regulations. BMS claims no legal federal, state or local certification concerning pollution controlled motor vehicles or mandated emissions requirements. BMS products labeled for use only in competition racing vehicles may only be used on competition racing vehicles operated exclusively on a closed course in conjunction with a sanctioned racing event, in accordance with all federal and state laws, and may never be operated on public roads/highways. Please click here for more information on legal requirements related to use of BMS parts.
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JHOOPS2 JHOOPS2 is offline
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Default 03-09-2011, 01:09 PM

Great info Terry. I'm sure that answers a lot of questions. I understood the theory of how it worked, but I am able to understand all of the "why's"

-Jeff


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Default 03-09-2011, 01:20 PM

Awesome explanation Terry. Thank you for taking a minute to educate me (us) on how this actually works. I'm sure it's still just a "basic" explanation, but at least I now feel like I have a better understanding of how the JB4 works.
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Default 03-09-2011, 01:31 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Terry @ BMS
Basically. Although it looks for 3 degree timing dips which are precursors to knock. So you never are actually knocking. You can log/watch the "avg ign" value which is a 0-15 integer representing the aggression level and see how it moves with various octanes, conditions, etc.

You can read/delete codes from the dash or laptop interface without switching maps. You only need to go to map 0 for reading with a BT.
Oh dear, I didn't know you couldn't read with BT unless your in Map 0 either!


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Default 03-09-2011, 01:38 PM

Nothing will work from the diagnostic port unless you're on map 0. The JB4 takes it over.


Burger Motorsports
Home of the JB4 the worlds most popular turbocharged tuning system!

It is the sole responsibility of the purchaser and installer of any BMS part to employ the correct installation techniques required to ensure the proper operation of BMS parts, and BMS disclaims any and all liability for any part failure due to improper installation or use. It is the sole responsibility of the customer to verify that the use of their vehicle and items purchased comply with federal, state and local regulations. BMS claims no legal federal, state or local certification concerning pollution controlled motor vehicles or mandated emissions requirements. BMS products labeled for use only in competition racing vehicles may only be used on competition racing vehicles operated exclusively on a closed course in conjunction with a sanctioned racing event, in accordance with all federal and state laws, and may never be operated on public roads/highways. Please click here for more information on legal requirements related to use of BMS parts.
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DCTepper DCTepper is offline
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Default 03-09-2011, 01:42 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Terry @ BMS
Nothing will work from the diagnostic port unless you're on map 0. The JB4 takes it over.
I can confirmed this first hand, my BMW tech buddy tried to plug in to reset my brake pad sensors and couldn't connect with my ECU. Sure enough, I forgot to change it to Map 0!
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Default 03-09-2011, 05:24 PM

so if I were to take my car in for, let's say an oil change, should I remove JB4 completely or set it to MAP 0 in case they decide to do something like reset or check for something else?

by having MAP 0 selected, the dealership won't know JB4 is installed unless they go looking in the DME?
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JHOOPS2 JHOOPS2 is offline
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Default 03-09-2011, 05:39 PM

I would remove the JB before any service appointment.


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DCTepper DCTepper is offline
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Default 03-09-2011, 06:28 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Byoung8
so if I were to take my car in for, let's say an oil change, should I remove JB4 completely or set it to MAP 0 in case they decide to do something like reset or check for something else?

by having MAP 0 selected, the dealership won't know JB4 is installed unless they go looking in the DME?
As long as you set it to Map 0 and clear your codes you should be safe. Even if they scan they wouldn't see it. However, it is a risk. You have to ask yourself if the risk is worth the hour of uninstall/install time you'd save?
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Default 03-09-2011, 09:38 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Byoung8
so if I were to take my car in for, let's say an oil change, should I remove JB4 completely or set it to MAP 0 in case they decide to do something like reset or check for something else?

by having MAP 0 selected, the dealership won't know JB4 is installed unless they go looking in the DME?
Is not taking it out worth voiding your warranty?
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Default 03-09-2011, 11:36 PM

If they have any problem, like try to update software during an oil change....yes this does happen. They plug up your car and the computer tells the tech to upload software! The tech doesn't know any better and they feel like they are doing you a favor... they begin the upload... the system crashes and it has absolutely nothing to do with any piggy in the dme... it just happens! alot! The first thing they do is open up that ecu to see if something is out of place...and wa la.... there is your favorite tune right there for everyone to see. From that point on all the time they spent trying to upload the newest software becomes time you pay for. So if they try for two hours to upload software and the tech messes it up, or the dealership computer messes up, or if your DME just goes kaput, instead of an apology, and a loaner extension and possibly a new ECU, you get a big fat bill!

Ask me how I know.... Get a PNP unit, takes 10 min to get it out once your under the cowl.
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Default 03-10-2011, 02:05 AM

Haha just wondering...I'm pretty quick at removing JB4
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Default 03-10-2011, 06:32 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by DCTepper
Terry - What is on the horizon for the next release?
The next change will be compatibility for the new CPS add-on module we're working on. Once that is all put to bed then we'll get back to work on adding some new features. There has been no shortage of requests and good ideas!


Burger Motorsports
Home of the JB4 the worlds most popular turbocharged tuning system!

It is the sole responsibility of the purchaser and installer of any BMS part to employ the correct installation techniques required to ensure the proper operation of BMS parts, and BMS disclaims any and all liability for any part failure due to improper installation or use. It is the sole responsibility of the customer to verify that the use of their vehicle and items purchased comply with federal, state and local regulations. BMS claims no legal federal, state or local certification concerning pollution controlled motor vehicles or mandated emissions requirements. BMS products labeled for use only in competition racing vehicles may only be used on competition racing vehicles operated exclusively on a closed course in conjunction with a sanctioned racing event, in accordance with all federal and state laws, and may never be operated on public roads/highways. Please click here for more information on legal requirements related to use of BMS parts.
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Default 03-10-2011, 08:50 PM

Interesting, so tuning wise, is there much left on the table to do other than CPS?


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DCTepper DCTepper is offline
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Default 03-11-2011, 05:49 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Terry @ BMS
The next change will be compatibility for the new CPS add-on module we're working on. Once that is all put to bed then we'll get back to work on adding some new features. There has been no shortage of requests and good ideas!
CPS = Crank Position Sensor? What would be the benefits of this?
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Default 03-11-2011, 06:51 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by DCTepper
CPS = Crank Position Sensor? What would be the benefits of this?
It allows them to reduce timing while running higher boost...should help with random timing drops ("knock as you'll read on the other board") in bad conditions/octane/etc.


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MeinBMW MeinBMW is offline
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Default 03-11-2011, 10:25 AM

Quick Map 7 question ...

With 2 gallons of 110 + a couple gallons of 93 in a car with Intake, Upgraded Intercooler & ********* I should be good to go right? I want to hit me some low 12s tonight while we got this cold snap
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Default 03-11-2011, 10:41 AM

Don't use leaded fuel. Use unleaded and run as high of a mix of it as possible. As long as octane is over 98 RM2 or so you're good to go for map 7.


Burger Motorsports
Home of the JB4 the worlds most popular turbocharged tuning system!

It is the sole responsibility of the purchaser and installer of any BMS part to employ the correct installation techniques required to ensure the proper operation of BMS parts, and BMS disclaims any and all liability for any part failure due to improper installation or use. It is the sole responsibility of the customer to verify that the use of their vehicle and items purchased comply with federal, state and local regulations. BMS claims no legal federal, state or local certification concerning pollution controlled motor vehicles or mandated emissions requirements. BMS products labeled for use only in competition racing vehicles may only be used on competition racing vehicles operated exclusively on a closed course in conjunction with a sanctioned racing event, in accordance with all federal and state laws, and may never be operated on public roads/highways. Please click here for more information on legal requirements related to use of BMS parts.
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MeinBMW MeinBMW is offline
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Default 03-11-2011, 11:46 AM

Hurm ... I'll have to look more then ... all the 100+ octane I've seen around here is all leaded ... do you suggest against it because of the secondary cats or is it bad for some of the other parts?
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MeinBMW MeinBMW is offline
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Default 03-11-2011, 12:01 PM

Found a place that sells 104 unleaded so that would be ok as long as I have enough of the 104 in there ... it's $60/5 gal ... that seem high to anyone? Sunoco 110 leaded was only $7.50/gal

Alright after more reading it seems everyone is dead set again the leaded gas ... guess I won't be running race fuel tonight ... time for a meth setup

Last edited by MeinBMW; 03-11-2011 at 12:23 PM..
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