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CJ2 CJ2 is offline
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Default 01-30-2017, 06:54 AM

Enabled map 1 - logs look good. Ready to step it up.

Which maps spray meth and how much E85 can I mix into my tank of gas?


2013 F10 M5 | PS2 | JB4+BCM | Bootmod3 | BMS Intake | BMS CP's | ER **'s | SSP Spec-R | Meth
10/15/16 Goodbye old friend - 2012 F30 335i | PURE stage 2 turbo | JB4 | BMS intake | ER down pipe | ER charge pipe | ER FMIC | E60 | Meth
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(#777)
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CCT128 CCT128 is offline
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Default 01-31-2017, 01:07 PM

Hello,
Anybody may help? Terry?
Thanks,

Quote:
Originally Posted by CCT128
Hello,
My car is a 2016 F13 M6 Competition Package 600hp.
I just fitted a JB4 ( not fitted the BCM yet ). Latest firmware version.
Made some datalog today to compare Map0 ( stock ), Map1, and custom made Map6.

On Map0 the max boost value is 16,2 psi at 7000rpm. The AFR is around 11,5 at high revs.
On Map1 the max boost value 17,7 psi at 7000rpm, globally the curve is 2,5/3 psi above stock, not 4/5 above at suggested. The AFR is between 12,5/13 at high revs.
On Map6 although I target 22 psi at high revs I get no more than 18 psi. And AFR stays between 13/13,5 at high revs which is quite a dangerous zone...

Not quite the results I was hoping for. So I have a few questions:
1) I made just 3 or 4 pulls each time and changed Map. Do you think I need to make more pulls for the ECU to adapt the AFR? May it really adapt from values in the 13/13,5 to get back to values around 11,5?
2) Why doesn't it meet boost targets? I thought until 20/22psi it was able to meet its targets without the BCM.
3) When on Map6 I set boost limits for the first 3 gears. I tried with various values and never got any kind of result, basically it does nothing, same boost whatever values I used. Any reason for this? I read a lot of threads about this and found no reason why it would not work. Also I thought it worked as a boost reduction which was what I had read many times, looks like in the latest firmware it is a max boost limit. Really not a good idea, apart from the fact it does not work, having a max boost limit is not the right thing to do as what we need on these cars is limiting torque to get better traction, not limiting max power.

Any input appreciated.

On a side note, when accelerating in 5th gear from low revs, I got huge clutch slipping at 3000 rpm, had to lift as it did not stop by itself. Was only pushing 16psi at this moment, 520 lbft of torque. Quite surprising and I feel a bit pissed really, the car has only 5000 miles on the clock
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(#778)
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CCT128 CCT128 is offline
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Default 01-31-2017, 03:18 PM

OK I will try and answer my own questions so maybe it will help other members, because finding information here is rather difficult even reading the 30 pages of the tread.

1) Yes it seems to adapt slowly. I have made a custom Map6 with boost targets a bit higher than stock and that Map1, so to leave the car adapt without having the risk to push it running too lean. From more than 13 the other day, it is now slightly below 12 at high revs ( above 6000 ). I hope it still can adapt a bit more and go below 11,5. The boost I get at high revs is 18,5 with a target of 19. On Virtual Dyno that gives roughly 650 whp.
2) I understand BCM must be useful even with lower than 22psi boost levels. Probably it would help reach any level of boost.
3) I just read somewhere that whatever boost limits are informed there, the JB4 will never allow to target lower than stock boost levels. I suppose it is why there was no action there. I had read in many places that BMS advised to limit boost in first and second gear to values around 7 to 12, but I suppose this was for other cars ( M3/ M4 maybe) and does not apply to our cars. My car spins rear tires when it reaches 3000rpm from 5 psi in first and from 9 psi in second, so I was trying to limit boost to such values.

Terry, any possibility for you to make a firmware that would enable to limit boost to whatever value? If possible not max boost limits, but rather boost reduction based on the Map6 targets.
This way we could make a target Map that begins at 13/15psi and increase boost to 22 at high revs. Would help traction, help the DCT to handle the torque, have a nice reving engine, and reduce boost 12 psi in first gear, 5 or 6 psi in second gear. Tires would find grip and progressively send more power as speed rises with the rpms, especially in second gear this would totally change the effectiveness of this car.
Thanks.
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(#779)
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Default 02-01-2017, 05:37 PM

If you're looking for personal tuning help you're in the wrong spot. Post logs to the support forum along with any related questions.


Burger Motorsports
Home of the JB4 the worlds most popular turbocharged tuning system!

It is the sole responsibility of the purchaser and installer of any BMS part to employ the correct installation techniques required to ensure the proper operation of BMS parts, and BMS disclaims any and all liability for any part failure due to improper installation or use. It is the sole responsibility of the customer to verify that the use of their vehicle and items purchased comply with federal, state and local regulations. BMS claims no legal federal, state or local certification concerning pollution controlled motor vehicles or mandated emissions requirements. BMS products labeled for use only in competition racing vehicles may only be used on competition racing vehicles operated exclusively on a closed course in conjunction with a sanctioned racing event, in accordance with all federal and state laws, and may never be operated on public roads/highways. Please click here for more information on legal requirements related to use of BMS parts.
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(#780)
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CCT128 CCT128 is offline
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Default 02-01-2017, 11:59 PM

No, not looking for personal tuning help, I run a tuning company and we have all knowledge about such things.
Just trying to find out how jB4 works and share with the community.
As well as giving some indications of what kind of functions would be useful for this car.
When you have some time please read my last post, this is some important stuff:


"Terry, any possibility for you to make a firmware that would enable to limit boost to whatever value? If possible not max boost limits, but rather boost reduction based on the Map6 targets.
This way we could make a target Map that begins at 13/15psi and increase boost to 22 at high revs. Would help traction, help the DCT to handle the torque, have a nice reving engine, and reduce boost 12 psi in first gear, 5 or 6 psi in second gear. Tires would find grip and progressively send more power as speed rises with the rpms, especially in second gear this would totally change the effectiveness of this car."
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bleunetizen bleunetizen is offline
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Default 02-13-2017, 02:31 PM

Hi,

Just moved on from E63 M6 to F13 M6, had to spend lots of thousands of dollars to gain power in the old V10 but F13 seems so easy since playing with boost will give instant power gains!

Trying to decide between Stage 1 and JB4 with BCM. I assume both of these just mess with the stock boost level and not anything else?

I have read through many posts but I cannot seem to find the exact answer I want so here are the questions..

People suggest that Stage 1 and JB4's map 1 are the same, with or without the BCM. Is this true? If I was going to run map1, will I see absolutely zero benefit of going for JB4? Not just peak power but mid range also?

JB4's guide says to run map 1 for pump gas. Does it mean I will have to use meth injection or octane booster on top of 93octane fuel if I wanted to run map 2 or 3?

On a bone stock car, will map 2 or 3 run fine or do I have to have down *****?

Is stock ecu map safe enough to handle the higher boost? Generally you want to reduce ignition timing and richen the fuel mixture, but modern ecu's are always learning the a/f ratio and etc so it may not be the case anymore.. hence the 'adaptation' period.


Thanks guys
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(#782)
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Default 02-13-2017, 05:50 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by CCT128

"Terry, any possibility for you to make a firmware that would enable to limit boost to whatever value? If possible not max boost limits, but rather boost reduction based on the Map6 targets.
This way we could make a target Map that begins at 13/15psi and increase boost to 22 at high revs. Would help traction, help the DCT to handle the torque, have a nice reving engine, and reduce boost 12 psi in first gear, 5 or 6 psi in second gear. Tires would find grip and progressively send more power as speed rises with the rpms, especially in second gear this would totally change the effectiveness of this car."
Seems the boost cap system in place now would do the same thing. And is universal across all maps since boost roughly correlates to torque. You set the boost by gear settings such that traction is possible. Then adjust the boost profile itself for the desired torque curve when not in low gears.


Burger Motorsports
Home of the JB4 the worlds most popular turbocharged tuning system!

It is the sole responsibility of the purchaser and installer of any BMS part to employ the correct installation techniques required to ensure the proper operation of BMS parts, and BMS disclaims any and all liability for any part failure due to improper installation or use. It is the sole responsibility of the customer to verify that the use of their vehicle and items purchased comply with federal, state and local regulations. BMS claims no legal federal, state or local certification concerning pollution controlled motor vehicles or mandated emissions requirements. BMS products labeled for use only in competition racing vehicles may only be used on competition racing vehicles operated exclusively on a closed course in conjunction with a sanctioned racing event, in accordance with all federal and state laws, and may never be operated on public roads/highways. Please click here for more information on legal requirements related to use of BMS parts.
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(#783)
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Default 02-13-2017, 05:51 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by bleunetizen
People suggest that Stage 1 and JB4's map 1 are the same, with or without the BCM. Is this true? If I was going to run map1, will I see absolutely zero benefit of going for JB4? Not just peak power but mid range also?
The JB4 takes in a lot more data via CANbus and thus provides a better tune with more safety systems in place. But the power on JB4 map1 without a BCM is roughly the same as Stage1. JB4 map1 with a BCM is much higher than Stage1. In terms of map2 come cars can get away with it others can't from both a fueling and octane perspective, so you'd have to evaluate for your particular situation.


Burger Motorsports
Home of the JB4 the worlds most popular turbocharged tuning system!

It is the sole responsibility of the purchaser and installer of any BMS part to employ the correct installation techniques required to ensure the proper operation of BMS parts, and BMS disclaims any and all liability for any part failure due to improper installation or use. It is the sole responsibility of the customer to verify that the use of their vehicle and items purchased comply with federal, state and local regulations. BMS claims no legal federal, state or local certification concerning pollution controlled motor vehicles or mandated emissions requirements. BMS products labeled for use only in competition racing vehicles may only be used on competition racing vehicles operated exclusively on a closed course in conjunction with a sanctioned racing event, in accordance with all federal and state laws, and may never be operated on public roads/highways. Please click here for more information on legal requirements related to use of BMS parts.
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(#784)
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bleunetizen bleunetizen is offline
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Default 02-13-2017, 08:08 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Terry @ BMS
The JB4 takes in a lot more data via CANbus and thus provides a better tune with more safety systems in place. But the power on JB4 map1 without a BCM is roughly the same as Stage1. JB4 map1 with a BCM is much higher than Stage1. In terms of map2 come cars can get away with it others can't from both a fueling and octane perspective, so you'd have to evaluate for your particular situation.
Thanks for the information. It seems like JB4 with BCM is the way to go then. JB4+BCM is better because it adjusts fuel/ignition also or is it because it makes the boost come to peak quicker (keep the wastegate completely shut until peak)?

With JB4, how do I tell if my car is running okay with map2 or not? Will it get a cut off for exceeding the limit or is there a way to monitor the detonation level?

Map 3 says it is running absolute 18psi peak absolute, how does this compare to map 1? shouldnt map 1 be around the same psi (4~5psi above stock)?

Thanks!

Chad
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(#785)
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bleunetizen bleunetizen is offline
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Default 02-14-2017, 05:45 AM

Spent some more time reading about JB4 for S63tu. It appears that all Stage 1 or JB4 are doing is controlling the boost.

And apparently Map 2 is only good for competition package cars and not standard M5/M6 due to fuel map being too lean for the boost level.

I do not want to run race gas or add meth injection, so now that makes me rethink about JB4+BCM vs Stage 1 as I will be running Map 1 or 3 only. How does map 1 compare to Map 3?

Does anyone have boost curve or dyno comparison for JB4+BCM Map 1 vs BMS Stage 1?

Thanks!

Last edited by bleunetizen; 02-14-2017 at 07:07 AM..
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(#786)
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Default 02-14-2017, 09:36 AM

We run map2 routinely on our non-CP M5, whether you can get away with it depends on the fuel used, ambient weather, etc. If it's not going to work the JB4 will automatically bump you to map4 (stock) during pulls as it monitors AFR, fuel trims, etc, for safe levels.

Map1 is around 4psi over stock, but without the BCM that is just a request, often you get less. With the BCM you'll get the full 4psi over stock. Map3 is absolute at its profile and preferred by some. You'd have to try both to see what best meets your specific needs.


Burger Motorsports
Home of the JB4 the worlds most popular turbocharged tuning system!

It is the sole responsibility of the purchaser and installer of any BMS part to employ the correct installation techniques required to ensure the proper operation of BMS parts, and BMS disclaims any and all liability for any part failure due to improper installation or use. It is the sole responsibility of the customer to verify that the use of their vehicle and items purchased comply with federal, state and local regulations. BMS claims no legal federal, state or local certification concerning pollution controlled motor vehicles or mandated emissions requirements. BMS products labeled for use only in competition racing vehicles may only be used on competition racing vehicles operated exclusively on a closed course in conjunction with a sanctioned racing event, in accordance with all federal and state laws, and may never be operated on public roads/highways. Please click here for more information on legal requirements related to use of BMS parts.
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(#787)
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bleunetizen bleunetizen is offline
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Default 02-15-2017, 10:52 PM

I am new to this s63tu stuff, but now I now I understand what this is all about. It is a piggy back boost controller and not really doing anything to fuel or ignition timing, so it is not a piggy back ecu but a piggy back boost controller. But a very neat plug and play boost controller I must say! Much better than adding aftermarket solenoid and etc. I have quite a bit of experience with cars and ecu's. and BCM is for manipulating the wastegate solenoid instead of just relying on stock boost request signal. Pity I was expecting a piggy back that controls ignition and fuel but still jb4 seems like a very neat package.

more questions for you.. at which point does it switch to map 4 automatically? is it when the a/f ratio goes above certain value or other parameters? (13:1 perhaps, I can see your logs in other posts, looks like it hovers around 12:1 which isnt too bad for a stock map, probably heavily relies on octane level as usual)

and if you look at the ignition timing from your other post that compares map1 to map2 in 4th/5th gear etc, you will notice that the car runs considerable less ignition timing with increased boost up top. looking like stock timing map is pulling a lot of timing above 6000rpm, perhaps evaluate running less boost up top for map2? it does not seem to have any further gain compared to map1 above 6500rpm, obviously running less boost for same power is always better when there is no gain.

I think im pretty close to getting the JB4, I can have some fun logging stuff too and provide logs etc, which probably will contribute to develop some improvements.. if I can be of any help haha
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pkwon9285 pkwon9285 is offline
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Default 02-26-2017, 03:08 PM

Need help pls, a little comfused. 2012 euro spec RHD is running just a stg 1 with catted SS ***. However, the CEL came on and want to get rid of it. Ando said that JB4 will get rid of it so im thinking of getting the upgrade kit from stg 1 to JB4. WILL NOT BE RUNNING METH and the upgrade kit comes with a revised JB4 board, but the instruction talks about doing stuff to the stg1 board. Terry or fellow forum members, is it just simple as just swapping out the stg1 board to the jb4 board or whats the solution? Again, will not be running Meth in the car, just want a little more power and auto cel delete function like on my m235 and f80 m3.
pls help, and i apologize in advance if my post is too newbie-like. Thank you all.
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Terry @ BMS's Avatar
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Default 02-26-2017, 04:45 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by bleunetizen
more questions for you.. at which point does it switch to map 4 automatically? is it when the a/f ratio goes above certain value or other parameters? (13:1 perhaps, I can see your logs in other posts, looks like it hovers around 12:1 which isnt too bad for a stock map, probably heavily relies on octane level as usual)
The various safety systems vary by firmware version. AFR triggers when AFR is over 14:1 for more than a second, boost when boost exceeds your defined limit for more than a second. There are some other minor ones active and more in the works for the S63TU.

This is a direct injection platform so start to get used to AFR a lot leaner than you've seen before. Like 14s at peak torque 13s at peak HP, in some applications.


Burger Motorsports
Home of the JB4 the worlds most popular turbocharged tuning system!

It is the sole responsibility of the purchaser and installer of any BMS part to employ the correct installation techniques required to ensure the proper operation of BMS parts, and BMS disclaims any and all liability for any part failure due to improper installation or use. It is the sole responsibility of the customer to verify that the use of their vehicle and items purchased comply with federal, state and local regulations. BMS claims no legal federal, state or local certification concerning pollution controlled motor vehicles or mandated emissions requirements. BMS products labeled for use only in competition racing vehicles may only be used on competition racing vehicles operated exclusively on a closed course in conjunction with a sanctioned racing event, in accordance with all federal and state laws, and may never be operated on public roads/highways. Please click here for more information on legal requirements related to use of BMS parts.
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Mcc420 Mcc420 is offline
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Default 03-01-2017, 07:47 PM

Can we use the user adjustments that you posted in the first post (map6)? This is for a 2012 m5 no bcm installed yet but I have it.
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Default 03-01-2017, 09:18 PM

Generally without a BCM you'll want to use map1. Map6 is for tuners to dial in custom profiles for more advanced setups involving back end flash maps, larger turbos, etc.


Burger Motorsports
Home of the JB4 the worlds most popular turbocharged tuning system!

It is the sole responsibility of the purchaser and installer of any BMS part to employ the correct installation techniques required to ensure the proper operation of BMS parts, and BMS disclaims any and all liability for any part failure due to improper installation or use. It is the sole responsibility of the customer to verify that the use of their vehicle and items purchased comply with federal, state and local regulations. BMS claims no legal federal, state or local certification concerning pollution controlled motor vehicles or mandated emissions requirements. BMS products labeled for use only in competition racing vehicles may only be used on competition racing vehicles operated exclusively on a closed course in conjunction with a sanctioned racing event, in accordance with all federal and state laws, and may never be operated on public roads/highways. Please click here for more information on legal requirements related to use of BMS parts.
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Excelent Excelent is offline
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Default 03-02-2017, 10:22 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by limeypride
// I'm answering my own posts more than anything else but my ego can take it...

X5M JB4 installation complete; my experience:
  • CONS
    • this is a lot harder to install than the stage 1 box... a lot
    • the JB4 is more likely to be detected (more like guaranteed I'd say) by a dealer than the stage 1 since it's permanently plugged into the OBD-II port which most BMW dealers will use on almost any service
      • uninstalling for each service isn't really an option so getting on a strong footing with your dealer of choice is advisable
    • its price--I'm into the JB4 for almost $2,000 incl. install and Bluetooth adapter... but, in all fairness, that's still cheaper than most ECU tunes out there and Dinan (I think)
    • the in-car control via the BC button doesn't work in the X5M and presumably won't in the X6M--get the Bluetooth adapter
  • PROS
    • Flexibility
      • you can remove this thing and take it from car to car just like the stage 1--it's more work but it's still possible; try that with an ECU tune or even Dinan--there's still a price to pay even with Dinan's parasite tune
    • Performance
      • I want to ensure folks understand the context here: my last car was a 2016 M6 with well over 600hp from the factory (per the dyno)
      • I installed the stage 1 in it and it was consistently putting down 640+rwhp... this was my absolute favorite M car having had 6 now... and it was a hugely, monumentally fast 4-seater
      • yesterday, after Terry reviewed the logs from a few runs on map1, I set the JB4 to map 2 in the X5M
      • 0-60 in my X5M now takes a tick under 3.5 seconds and I don't think we're done improving that yet come rain or shine
      • my seat-of-the-pants assessment is that this X5M will not only beat my last M6 off of the line but it'll hold its lead in a 1/4 mile--THIS CAR IS INSANELY QUICK NOW
      • I can't emphasize this enough--the difference between the JB4 and either a stock X5M or a stage 1 Burger tune is night and day... the car pins you back in your seat now
      • if you're umming and arring over getting this tune, stop procrastinating and get it
    • My overall feeling
      • I love it--lots of folks say this but I'm happy to join the choir: this is how BMW should set the car up themselves
      • It makes me grin every time I pull away and most especially when I WOT it from 40-140mph (on a closed course, of course)--man, what a blast
      • unlike my past cars, this one pays no attention to the weather--it simply doesn't care; the power is readily put down every time
Thank you. Nice review. I'm gone also buy al this things to my X6M to.
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Default 03-02-2017, 10:43 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by limeypride
I am running the JB4 + BCM (with the Bluetooth adapter which is soooo worth it). No other performance mods, just spacers (15mm rear, 5mm front) and gobs of coding tweaks.

We get 92 octane pump gas here in WA and based on my research, map 7's pushing the boost target way too high for that octane. I'm happy to be told I'm wrong but I'm not optimistic.

Map 1 provides decent boost. Map 2 is the STUPID FAST one I'm referring to and there might be some ground to gain using map 6 and cranking up the boost at lower RPMs but it's unclear if that'll work. I owe Terry some logs for that question. From what I understand, his concern is that the turbos won't spool up to the 22psi target at lower RPMs.
There's a Shell station of exit 206, almost Arlington, that's got E85. I've been putting in 5 gallon with each fill up now, you'll notice it and it'll allow use of the E30 map.


'10 BMW X5///M - Alpine White on Sakhir Orange - HCP Stage 2/JB4, NGK 97506 @ .20, SS intake w/ BMC filters, gutted cats, muffler delete & Vibrant 1794's, AC Forged 312 22's, H&R 2"
'08 BMW 535xiT - VTT 2's, MHD 2, BMS DCI, inlets, RB/Mishimoto,
'98 BMW 740iL - ///E39 M5 6spd swap, fully built engine (sleeved, P&P, cams), 3.46 LSD, H&R Stage 2/Bilstein HD, Magnaflow 14816's
'97 BMW 328ci - ///E36 M3 clutch, L/W flywheel, 3.23LSD, Z4///M staggered 18's
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(#794)
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limeypride limeypride is offline
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Default 03-05-2017, 07:35 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by m5james
There's a Shell station of exit 206, almost Arlington, that's got E85. I've been putting in 5 gallon with each fill up now, you'll notice it and it'll allow use of the E30 map.
Thanks!

Sadly, I just sold it--I love the straight-line performance but I miss the low-slung stance and driving experience of the coupes. I'm umming and arrring what's next but I'm considering an RS7 or the new E63 AMG S (assuming they ever release it).


2020 BMW M8 Competition Gran Coupe
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prelude2perfect prelude2perfect is offline
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Default 04-19-2017, 06:02 PM

What's the ~ whp for map 3 with intake, cp, and *********?


'07 E90 MT Sports Package l FBO l RB Next Gen Plus l JB4 G5 with DPT E85 BEF l N20 MAP Sensor l MMP Inlets l RB Outlets l Custom Exhaust l NLS & 2-Step l MFactory 3.46 LSD l 335is Clutch with MFactory SMFW l Walbro 450 l Direct Port Meth Injection

Best 1/4 ET: 11.4
Best 1.4 Trap: 127.7
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MuffinFlavored MuffinFlavored is offline
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Default 05-02-2017, 06:20 AM

I spent 4 hours last night installing this ******.

I kept getting 120908 TMAP Sensor 2 - short to ground whenever the JB4 was installed. I tried 3 different grounds on the strut tower. It threw drivetrain malfunction and sent the car into limp mode. Updating the firmware to v1.5 and v1.6 did nothing. On top of that, clearing the codes from the USB cable did nothing. It came back right away.

Do I need to send this back? Did I get a bad unit with possibly a faulty connector? What else can I really do?
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M1353000 M1353000 is offline
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Default X5 M5 F Series - 05-04-2017, 06:06 AM

Hey Terry, I have a 2015 X5M, I just purchased my new jb4 harness with BCM . is it the same tune as the M5/M6??? There's nothing on the site saying it is nor can I find any instructions that apply to the F85 X5M I just assumed it was the same being the same engine. Will it fit and will the same maps be right to use?? I found out the hard way the BMS intakes don't fit lol but not to worry


M135i LCI 8sp, ******* DP, ER FMIC, ER Charge pipe, ER turbo to Intercooler pipe, Muffler & Resonator delete, BMS Filter, JB4, 30% E85 with 98, Stage 2 Fuel It LPFP.
1/4 Mile 11.8 @ 119mph
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Omarjeha Omarjeha is offline
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Default I screwed up - 05-09-2017, 02:46 PM

So when i purchased my 2013 BMW M5 I was under the impression it had a JB4 installed. Today i decided to flash the car with the new firmware. The firmware would not install correctly. I then did some research and discovered it is a BMS stage 1. Is there any way i can get the firmware for the BMS stage 1, so i can flash the box with it?
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Terry @ BMS's Avatar
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Default 05-09-2017, 09:10 PM

Sorted you via email.


Burger Motorsports
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serhat06 serhat06 is offline
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Posts: 14
Join Date: May 2015
Car: 05 e55 amg/ 07 e92 35
Default 05-18-2017, 09:59 PM

i have Just installed My bcm and jb4 , i did take a log for the map 2 and 1 and 0. it feels like having more turbo lag then before is that normal?
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Last edited by serhat06; 05-19-2017 at 07:15 AM..
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