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Default Fuel-It! Throttlebody Injection for the N54 (TBI) - 05-12-2015, 02:04 AM

UPDATE: The TBI kits have been released so the first post of this thread will contain all the information on the kits that are available for the N54. If you have an N55, please see the thread in the N55 section for information on that platform. The second post in this thread will contain all the installation guides, setup information, and videos. We will continue to update those as time goes on.

Q & A:

Where can these be purchased?

The N54 version of these kits can be purchased by following this link. Do not use this link to purchase a kit for you N55, please see the Fuel-It! Throttlebody Injection thread in the N55 section of this forum.

http://www.fuel-it.biz/n54-tbi-options/

Do I have to run a JB4 to run TBI?

No, the TBI system is controlled independently with the Hobb's switch. However, we do recommend running a JB4 because you have additional flexibility with adjusting your trims by adjusting the Fuel Open Loop (FOL) up or down. If you are running a flash only tune, you or your tuner may have to adjust your "scalars" to accommodate the additional fueling. Contact us with any questions about this.

What is throttlebody injection (TBI)?

TBI is a spacer that is installed between your stock throttlebody and the intake manifold that injects atomized fuel in to the air stream prior to it going in to the cylinder.

Where does it get the fuel from?

A plug and play connection is supplied with each kit that taps in to the stock low pressure fuel system.

How is it controlled?

Each kit comes with a Hobb's switch that can be installed in a meth bung on your charge pipe. These are boost pressure activated switches that provide a ground signal to the solenoid and turn it on while under boost. We offer 2 options for the Hobb's switch, a 4psi and a 15psi. Both switches can be adjusted up or down approx. 3 or 4psi.

Which Hobb's switch do I choose?

If your turbos can not hold boost of atleast 15psi to redline, then we would suggest sticking with the 4psi Hobb's switch. If they can and may be a little slower spooling, then we would recommend the 15psi Hobb's switch.

Do I have to run a flash with this?

When running high concentrations of ethanol, it is best to run a Backend Flash (BEF) to take advantage of the additional octane. However it may not be required as the added fueling will help to compensate for the additional fueling demand when running E85. As we get more logs from actual users, we will begin posting BEF's for use with this system. When running a Cobb or non-BMS MHD BEF, we will be able to post recommendations but we will not be able to provide you with maps as those are locked and will require Access Tuner Race to modify your own map or a custom map from the tuner of your choice.

How much additional fuel does TBI supply?

Approximately 1 liter per minute of highly atomized fuel.

How much additional power will this support beyond what the HPFP can provide?

Approximately 15-20% more fueling capacity or approximately 70-100whp on various mixes of ethanol. All of these numbers will vary based on target AFR's, fuel being used, and the condition of your stock HPFP.

What additional mods are needed?

You must have an upgraded Low Pressure Fuel Pump (LPFP). When running E85 we recommend our Stage 2 LPFP upgrade.

What additional information do I need to know before deciding to run TBI?
  • You can not run the stock airbox without modifying it. We recommend running the BMS Dual Cone Intakes
  • It is very important that you install all of the fuel fittings correctly and verify they have seated properly! Please see the video in the second post of this thread.
  • These kits are for track use only and do not meet emissions requirements.
  • Purchase the correct kit for your N54 or N55, the throttlebody bolts are different between the two. (See the Fuel-It! Throttlebody Injection thread in the N55 section for information on that platform)
  • Always verify all your fuel connections after your installation is completed and verify there are no leaks or loose fittings.
  • If you run meth with these kits for IAT control, we recommend running a very small nozzle.

There are four options available for the N54.

Bronze:

These are the basic kits that fit virtually all N54's and they include:
  • Throttlebody spacer
  • Fuel solenoid
  • Adapter and fuel line to connect to the factory fuel line
  • Hobb's switch to activate system under boost
  • Wiring harness
  • New bolts for the throttle body to install the spacer
  • Plug and play integration

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Silver:

These kits have an upgraded fuel line that replace the stock line from the tank to the HPFP hardline in the engine bay. These kits are only available for the 135i and 335i N54 equipped cars at this time and these kits include:

Silver kit inludes:
  • Throttlebody spacer
  • Fuel solenoid
  • New upgraded fuel line to replace the factory fuel lines to the tank
  • Hobb's switch to activate system under boost
  • Wiring harness
  • New bolts for the throttle body to install the spacer
  • Plug and play integration

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Gold:

The in addition to the upgraded fuel line, the Gold kits include and in line ethanol sensor. You must have an analyzer to read the ethanol content and the Platinum kit includes a JB4 integrated analyzer. These kits are only available for the 135i and 335i N54 equipped cars at this time and these kits include:
  • Throttlebody spacer
  • Fuel solenoid
  • New upgraded fuel lines to replace the factory fuel lines and add the ethanol sensor
  • New Continental ethanol sensor (requires analyzer to read ethanol content)
  • Hobb's switch to activate system under boost
  • Wiring harness
  • New bolts for the throttle body to install the spacer
  • Plug and play integration

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Platinum

These kits include everything in the Gold kit but also include the JB4 integrated analyzer. This enables you to see the actual ethanol content on your JB4 Mobile Connect Kit or in your JB4 interface software under the "meth" readout. These kits are only available for the 135i and 335i N54 equipped cars at this time and these kits include:

Platinum kit includes:
  • Throttlebody spacer
  • Fuel solenoid
  • New upgraded fuel lines to replace the factory fuel lines and add the ethanol sensor
  • New Continental ethanol sensor (requires analyzer to read ethanol content)
  • Analyzer for integration with Burger Motorsports' JB4 or other devices that accept a 0-5 volt input. If you are using your meth input on the JB4, you can not install this analyzer with out installing an additional switch as they both use the same input on the JB4 wiring harness. (Pin 15)
  • Hobb's switch to activate system under boost
  • Wiring harness
  • New bolts for the throttle body to install the spacer
  • Plug and play integration

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Email me at steve@fuel-it.com with any additional questions or with logs to be reviewed.



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Video of our Stage 2 LPFP upgrade installation.

BMS products labeled for use only in competition racing vehicles may only be used on competition racing vehicles operated exclusively on a closed course in conjunction with a sanctioned racing event, in accordance with all federal and state laws, and may never be operated on public roads/highways.

Last edited by Steve @ BMS/Fuel-It!; 11-13-2015 at 12:18 AM.. Reason: Add updates
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Default 05-12-2015, 02:06 AM

Installation guides, pictures, and videos:

The TBI installation guide:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/c1sk9doa1t...stall.pdf?dl=0

There have been a couple changes with the release version of the kit and we will update the installation guide as soon as possible but they are pretty straight forward.
  • The "Tee" fitting on the TBI spacer now goes on the top for all platforms.
  • The ground wire from the solenoid goes straight to the Hobb's switch, no addition pigtail is needed or supplied.
  • We now supply a quick connect for the power wire, this can be connected to the same power wire the JB4 uses in the DME box. (Pin 2 of green plug)
  • The ethanol analyzer no longer has 2 ground wires and only has one ground wire that is installed at the ethanol sensor.

Overview and installation guide:



Index for the overview and installation guide...

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Installing quick connect fittings:



Description of fuel lines and connections for those installing a Gold kit:



Description of fuel lines and connections for those installing a Silver kit:



Installing a JB4 integrated analyzer:



Installing the ethanol sensor:

Part 1


Part 2


Part 3


Part 4


Part 5





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Video of our Stage 2 LPFP upgrade installation.

BMS products labeled for use only in competition racing vehicles may only be used on competition racing vehicles operated exclusively on a closed course in conjunction with a sanctioned racing event, in accordance with all federal and state laws, and may never be operated on public roads/highways.

Last edited by Steve @ BMS/Fuel-It!; 12-08-2015 at 07:52 AM..
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Default 05-12-2015, 06:38 AM

Looking good man! Very simple, and effective!


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jyamona jyamona is offline
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Default 05-12-2015, 06:54 AM

How about me running 93oct and a ST? I will need a bit of extra fuel...
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Default 05-12-2015, 07:10 AM

Great. Perfect timing, since I will be replacing my HPFP this weekend myself and can get the kit installed all at the same time. Count me in. Will be sending you an email.


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Default 05-12-2015, 07:24 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by jyamona
How about me running 93oct and a ST? I will need a bit of extra fuel...
Without going stupid on a zero timing tune your stock fuel system should be fine for what you can make on 93.
I was able to get 20psi out of 93 alone and my HPFP was 12-13 on the JB scale. OL was at 40and scalar at 1.30.

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jyamona jyamona is offline
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Default 05-12-2015, 07:33 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by 3000GT MR
Without going stupid on a zero timing tune your stock fuel system should be fine for what you can make on 93.
I was able to get 20psi out of 93 alone and my HPFP was 12-13 on the JB scale. OL was at 40and scalar at 1.30.

VM TM 6466
Hrm, I've seen quite a few examples of people being tapped out for fuel on 93. Kind of a max stock DME tune, running 220 load across if possible. EFR8374 here, just want to max it on 93 and not be fuel limited.
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Default 05-12-2015, 07:43 AM

20psi and E85 will max it. I can dig through my logs and show you a few examples. On a pretty conservative timing tune 8-9* max you may be able to squeeze 21psi out of it. I wouldn't want to go much more on just 93.

Thats my experience anyways.


I have plenty more but this is one example i could find on my phone. Just 100% 93 and 20psi. You can see i still have some OL fueling left or scalar either way you want to look at it (1.30)
Anything more than this i had timing pulls.

The meth flow is bonkers because i had the flow sensor wired and not attached since the rest of the system wasn't installed at the time so it was picking up random EMI
Attached Files
File Type: csv 2015-04-28 16_13_49.csv (10.1 KB, 1592 views)


Have a single turbo and/or tired of burning up O2 sensors? Ask me about the new ADV O2 sensor retro kits!

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Last edited by 3000GT MR; 05-12-2015 at 07:58 AM..
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Default 05-12-2015, 07:57 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve @ BMS/Fuel-It!
.

For this release customers must:
-have an N54 (sorry, no N55's at this time )
-have an LPFP upgrade
-be running a high concentration of ethanol.
-not be running meth.
-be making up to 500whp.
I guess I'll wait for the production run

wanted to use this TB injection on Map 7 with full E85 (mostly to clean the valves)
and meth on Map 3 with pump gas or race gas

and will experiment with running both just to see how it runs...

anyway to include an optional remote (from cabin) disable switch in the production run?


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Default 05-12-2015, 08:06 AM

Very nice option for those who need another 20-30% fueling capacity without the complication and expense of port injection.

We have a BETA kit here and will be testing it on one of our fleet shortly.


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Default 05-12-2015, 08:07 AM

Very interested and been following this for a while. I have Rb turbos and meth etc etc and was thinking of switching to port injection as I hate the delay in the meth flow to up the boost. I think I am over 500whp though does that matter? I normally run e50?


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Default 05-12-2015, 08:31 AM

Bummer, it looks like I will need an aftermarket chargepipe with this. Guess I will just wait for the full kit and get everything together.


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Shafer Shafer is offline
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Default 05-12-2015, 08:46 AM

Great work!

Hopefully this fills the gap between a full port injection kit, and the stock setup. It appears that it will do exactly that.
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Default 05-12-2015, 09:02 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by VargasTurboTech
Looking good man! Very simple, and effective!
Thanks, that's what we were going for.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jyamona
How about me running 93oct and a ST? I will need a bit of extra fuel...
Not at this time. In the next run, if you need it. Sure!

Quote:
Originally Posted by CHECKERED
I guess I'll wait for the production run

wanted to use this TB injection on Map 7 with full E85 (mostly to clean the valves)
and meth on Map 3 with pump gas or race gas

and will experiment with running both just to see how it runs...

anyway to include an optional remote (from cabin) disable switch in the production run?
If you have it available, I'd just use the JB4 External Trigger to enable or disable it and forgo the Hobb's switch. Due to people using that for other things such as 2-step and so on, we are not making that the standard.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kennejp
Very interested and been following this for a while. I have Rb turbos and meth etc etc and was thinking of switching to port injection as I hate the delay in the meth flow to up the boost. I think I am over 500whp though does that matter? I normally run e50?
You should be well over 500whp, port injection would be a better option for you.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cloud9Blue
Bummer, it looks like I will need an aftermarket chargepipe with this. Guess I will just wait for the full kit and get everything together.
You should really be running a metal CP. If you don't have a meth bung available (with a 1/8" pipe thread), you can do one of two things.

-Use the JB4's external trigger option
-Get a female 1/8" NPT to 1/8" barbed union, 1/8" barbed tee, a section of vacuum line, and run it off the line to your DV's.

The JB4 route or the CP is just a much cleaner solution.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shafer
Great work!

Hopefully this fills the gap between a full port injection kit, and the stock setup. It appears that it will do exactly that.
Thanks



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Video of our Stage 2 LPFP upgrade installation.

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Default 05-12-2015, 09:05 AM

very simple, for $600-700... i think you could lower the price point


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Default 05-12-2015, 09:10 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve @ BMS/Fuel-It!
Okay guys, we are going to do a limited release of 4 units so we can get a few units out there in customer's hands and get back some more data. For those units there will be a special price of $599 + shipping but you must be willing to provide logs and feedback. After those units are gone, we will move on to our full release and those will be $699 + shipping. Those will be going in to production soon, but there is no date for the full release at this time. To be included in this round, please email us.

For this release customers must:
-have an N54 (sorry, no N55's at this time )
-have an LPFP upgrade
-be running a high concentration of ethanol.
-not be running meth.
-be making up to 500whp.

At this time we are not targeting 500+ whp on anything above E60. We want to keep this solution plug and play with little to no tuning required.

Included with the kit will be everything shown below...

-Throttlebody spacer
-Fuel line adapter
-Solenoid
-All the plumbing lines and connections
-All electrical accessories
-8psi Hobb's switch (these thread in to a meth bung)
-New bolts
*nothing else is required for installation

Attachment 31427

Here are a couple pictures of it installed.

Attachment 31428

Attachment 31438

Here a few logs for comparison on 100% verifed E85. They were all taken within minutes of each other and the only thing we changed was that we disabled throttlebody injection for comparison sake. I have left the non fueling data off the logs to keep them from being cluttered. The CSV files are included as well.

Here are two logs with throttle body injection turned off (we disconnected the ground from the Hobb's switch). In both logs we were out of fuel by 4600 rpms so we had to abandon the runs.

Attachment 31430
Attachment 31434

Attachment 31433
Attachment 31435

Here are 2 logs with throttle body injection turned on.

Attachment 31431
Attachment 31436

Attachment 31432
Attachment 31437

We will have the installation PDF completed in the next couple days and distribute it to those four customers.

Thanks,
Steve

is it just me or is boost higher on the first set of maps w/o the $700 sprayer lol


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Shafer Shafer is offline
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Default 05-12-2015, 09:10 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by anti
very simple, for $600-700... i think you could lower the price point
You're paying for R&D, they're sourcing all of the materials so you don't have to build a kit yourself, and I'm sure it's not cheap to put this all together, but still keep it at a reasonable price. I think you get a good benefit from this kit, and it costs as much as a FMIC.
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Cloud9Blue Cloud9Blue is offline
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Default 05-12-2015, 09:37 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve @ BMS/Fuel-It!
You should really be running a metal CP. If you don't have a meth bung available (with a 1/8" pipe thread), you can do one of two things.
Down the line, definitely. But stock charge pipe work perfectly fine for me after all these years, so there is no rush in replacing them at the moment. The guys that have issues with theirs blowing up mostly likely have faulty DVs or just poor casting on their plastic charge pipes.

This is a great kit for those seeking a little extra fueling without the complexity of PI kit. It sounds like I can run it just off the JB4 since I don't have NLS nor Meth taking up the external trigger. Is there any pros and cons of using either trigger option?

Also, I was wondering if it is possible to run the kit with just 93 as well. It would be nice to do that during the winter while keeping the intake valves clean.

While I might just wait for the production kit to be ready, it is nice to see the kit is ready for some public testings. Would be nice if you can share the installation guide when it is ready.


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Default 05-12-2015, 09:39 AM

Very cool stuff. I feel like new parts are coming out for the N54 every single week. Inlets and throttle body injection will help out a lot of people that want as much power as possible without upgrading turbos.


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Default 05-12-2015, 09:54 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by anti
is it just me or is boost higher on the first set of maps w/o the $700 sprayer lol
There is minimal difference between the logs in boost.

Quote:
Originally Posted by anti
very simple, for $600-700... i think you could lower the price point
While simple looking, it's not cheap, nor was it that easy to develop.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cloud9Blue
Down the line, definitely. But stock charge pipe work perfectly fine for me after all these years, so there is no rush in replacing them at the moment. The guys that have issues with theirs blowing up mostly likely have faulty DVs or just poor casting on their plastic charge pipes.

This is a great kit for those seeking a little extra fueling without the complexity of PI kit. It sounds like I can run it just off the JB4 since I don't have NLS nor Meth taking up the external trigger. Is there any pros and cons of using either trigger option?

Also, I was wondering if it is possible to run the kit with just 93 as well. It would be nice to do that during the winter while keeping the intake valves clean.

While I might just wait for the production kit to be ready, it is nice to see the kit is ready for some public testings. Would be nice if you can share the installation guide when it is ready.
There are a couple different iterations of the charge pipe. One is hard plastic and doesn't seem to have as many issues. The other you can physically flex with your hands, that one appears to have more issues.

However, most people that will need something like this are pushing more boost and consequently run a higher risk of cracking their charge pipe. hence our recommendation is to upgrade it.

No reason it can't be run with 93, but for most it won't be needed.

No problem, we have all the pics from the install, we just need to finish up the Power Point/PDF presentation.



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Video of our Stage 2 LPFP upgrade installation.

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Default 05-12-2015, 10:00 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by anti
very simple, for $600-700... i think you could lower the price point
When Steve first discussed the idea with me I thought so too. But, after we went through the costs and what is involved in production, and I looked over a sample, I think the $700 price point is reasonable. Considering the next step up to port injection is $1629.

For someone who wants a clean & simple fueling solution this has a lot of appeal. But for the really "budget" oriented something like our $429 methanol injection kit is going to be more appealing. But then you need a CP with a bung, to refill it, and its not as clean or reliable. Different strokes for different strokes.


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Payam @ BMS's Avatar
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Default 05-12-2015, 10:15 AM

We have a development stock turbo N54 that meets those requirments. Too bad Terry already doing it though! LOL


Burger Motorsports
Home of the Worlds fastest N20s, N54s, N55s, S55s, N63s, and S63s!

It is the sole responsibility of the purchaser and installer of any BMS part to employ the correct installation techniques required to ensure the proper operation of BMS parts, and BMS disclaims any and all liability for any part failure due to improper installation or use. It is the sole responsibility of the customer to verify that the use of their vehicle and items purchased comply with federal, state and local regulations. BMS claims no legal federal, state or local certification concerning pollution controlled motor vehicles or mandated emissions requirements. BMS products labeled for use only in competition racing vehicles may only be used on competition racing vehicles operated exclusively on a closed course in conjunction with a sanctioned racing event, in accordance with all federal and state laws, and may never be operated on public roads/highways. Please click here for more information on legal requirements related to use of BMS parts.
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Default 05-12-2015, 10:38 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by anti
very simple, for $600-700... i think you could lower the price point
Quote:
Originally Posted by Terry @ BMS
When Steve first discussed the idea with me I thought so too. But, after we went through the costs and what is involved in production, and I looked over a sample, I think the $700 price point is reasonable. Considering the next step up to port injection is $1629.

For someone who wants a clean & simple fueling solution this has a lot of appeal. But for the really "budget" oriented something like our $429 methanol injection kit is going to be more appealing. But then you need a CP with a bung, to refill it, and its not as clean or reliable. Different strokes for different strokes.
Agreed, if you are budget mind it's hard to beat a $429 meth kit.

There are a few things here that the average observer wouldn't know or take in to account.

Would we like to be able to sell it for less...absolutely but there are a few obstacles to that.

For example, the solenoid alone is $90. This isn't a meth solenoid, it has to be compatible with fuel and it's not nearly as common. Consequently they cost more.

The nozzles/injectors, they are proprietary and developed especially for this application. We aren't ordering thousands of them at a time.

Assembly...we aren't simply sending you a box of parts to assemble, it's all pretty much done.

In the end, it all comes down to cost versus benefit, simplicity, reliability, and convenience. If that doesn't add up for you, there are other options, we're just supplying you with that...an option.

Quote:
Originally Posted by FastGti69
We have a development stock turbo N54 that meets those requirments. Too bad Terry already doing it though! LOL
The one Terry has could certainly be thrown on there if/when needed for the time being. We'll just have to ship the N54 bolts.



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BMS products labeled for use only in competition racing vehicles may only be used on competition racing vehicles operated exclusively on a closed course in conjunction with a sanctioned racing event, in accordance with all federal and state laws, and may never be operated on public roads/highways.
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Default 05-12-2015, 10:47 AM

I haven't installed ours yet Payam if you want to borrow it for testing. Steve can always send me another one.


Burger Motorsports
Home of the JB4 the worlds most popular turbocharged tuning system!

It is the sole responsibility of the purchaser and installer of any BMS part to employ the correct installation techniques required to ensure the proper operation of BMS parts, and BMS disclaims any and all liability for any part failure due to improper installation or use. It is the sole responsibility of the customer to verify that the use of their vehicle and items purchased comply with federal, state and local regulations. BMS claims no legal federal, state or local certification concerning pollution controlled motor vehicles or mandated emissions requirements. BMS products labeled for use only in competition racing vehicles may only be used on competition racing vehicles operated exclusively on a closed course in conjunction with a sanctioned racing event, in accordance with all federal and state laws, and may never be operated on public roads/highways. Please click here for more information on legal requirements related to use of BMS parts.
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Default 05-12-2015, 11:10 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Terry @ BMS
I haven't installed ours yet Payam if you want to borrow it for testing. Steve can always send me another one.
Anything to help BMS/Fuel-it and the community. I'll see you in an hour or so if you're still at the office and we'll figure something out.


Burger Motorsports
Home of the Worlds fastest N20s, N54s, N55s, S55s, N63s, and S63s!

It is the sole responsibility of the purchaser and installer of any BMS part to employ the correct installation techniques required to ensure the proper operation of BMS parts, and BMS disclaims any and all liability for any part failure due to improper installation or use. It is the sole responsibility of the customer to verify that the use of their vehicle and items purchased comply with federal, state and local regulations. BMS claims no legal federal, state or local certification concerning pollution controlled motor vehicles or mandated emissions requirements. BMS products labeled for use only in competition racing vehicles may only be used on competition racing vehicles operated exclusively on a closed course in conjunction with a sanctioned racing event, in accordance with all federal and state laws, and may never be operated on public roads/highways. Please click here for more information on legal requirements related to use of BMS parts.
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