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Eric97h Eric97h is offline
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Default 02-10-2020, 06:29 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by OzBMR
AFR is getting better up to 4000 RPM but I think still too much fuel from the DME/HPFP between 3000 - 4200 RPM and you need to use more CPI between 2500 - 3500 RPM. The HPFP is still dropping pressure between 2600 - 3400 RPM.

How do you add more CPI contribution?

Is there a fuel_25 corresponding with 2500 RPM? If so I suggest:

add fuel_25 value of 70 and leave duty_25 at 30
fuel_30 increase duty from 30 to 40

Timing - in my MHD OTS 95_102 map with E30 my car is hitting 16 PSI and 10 degrees of timing from 3000 RPM. Your car is hitting 16 PSI but only 4 - 5 degrees. I think you should increase timing from 3000 - 4500 RPM, maybe 8 degrees by 3000 RPM, 10 by 3500 RPM and 12 degrees by 4500 RPM

Need more boost 3200 - 4500 RPM. Currently boost target is 16 PSI at 3000 RPM, maybe shoot for 18 PSI there and 20 PSI by 3500 RPM onwards? If you want to have Map 4 as a 20 PSI flat map try reduce to target load/boost a bit between 5000 - 6000 RPM as it's currently hitting 21 - 22 PSI. If you then use Map 5 you'll overshoot the 22 PSI target you want.

Don't get too hung up on the Virtual Dyno power/torque numbers. Are you doing the runs in exactly the same section of road? If not and you get some slight inclines and declines it can skew the values.



Ok as far as your settings go I have all the jb4 settings for fuel and duty same but you canít put fuel 25 it starts at 3000 rpm and how do would you want me to lower the boost change the jb4 map or custom back end flash changing the degree and timing can be done via the flash
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OzBMR OzBMR is offline
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Default 02-10-2020, 03:48 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Eric97h
Ok as far as your settings go I have all the jb4 settings for fuel and duty same but you canít put fuel 25 it starts at 3000 rpm and how do would you want me to lower the boost change the jb4 map or custom back end flash changing the degree and timing can be done via the flash
I recommend getting the boost where you want it by having the back end flash adjusted, the JB4 will just add to what ever is there.

Having another look at the log CPI is already activating at 2787 RPM as soon as boost goes over 9 PSI, so maybe adjusting the fuel 30 duty from 30 - 40 will fix this.


Australian 2016 M140i LCI Mineral Grey
10.9@127MPH
MHD Stage 2+HPFP E30 OTS, Dorch Stage 2 HPFP, CG Precision DS-1 200 CPI, xHP. Everything else stock.
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Eric97h Eric97h is offline
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Default 02-10-2020, 03:54 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by OzBMR
I recommend getting the boost where you want it by having the back end flash adjusted, the JB4 will just add to what ever is there.

Having another look at the log CPI is already activating at 2787 RPM as soon as boost goes over 9 PSI, so maybe adjusting the fuel 30 duty from 30 - 40 will fix this.
Are you talking about the duty bias at 3000 rpm right now that is at 35 so I should Increase it to 40 cuz all the fuel bias are 70 from 3000 rpm and down
As far as duty bus itís 30 30 30 35 40 45 50 50 50 50 50 50 so change that 35 to 40
Your saying
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OzBMR OzBMR is offline
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Default 02-10-2020, 04:03 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Eric97h
Are you talking about the duty bias at 3000 rpm right now that is at 35 so I should Increase it to 40 cuz all the fuel bias are 70 from 3000 rpm and down
As far as duty bus itís 30 30 30 35 40 45 50 50 50 50 50 50 so change that 35 to 40
Your saying
Sorry, yes change from 35 to 40 at duty_30

I can see in the data log there are fuel_30, fuel_40 etc values in row 1 and 2 from column Q and also duty_15, duty_20 etc on rows 3 and 4 from column N

If you can also increase the duty_25 value from 30 to 35 it would be good.


Australian 2016 M140i LCI Mineral Grey
10.9@127MPH
MHD Stage 2+HPFP E30 OTS, Dorch Stage 2 HPFP, CG Precision DS-1 200 CPI, xHP. Everything else stock.
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(#480)
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Eric97h Eric97h is offline
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Default 02-10-2020, 07:48 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by OzBMR
Sorry, yes change from 35 to 40 at duty_30

I can see in the data log there are fuel_30, fuel_40 etc values in row 1 and 2 from column Q and also duty_15, duty_20 etc on rows 3 and 4 from column N

If you can also increase the duty_25 value from 30 to 35 it would be good.
does this look better
Attached Files
File Type: csv 2020-02-10 18_04_38_Map-4.csv (9.6 KB, 112 views)
File Type: csv 2020-02-10 17_57_53_Map-4.csv (11.6 KB, 110 views)
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OzBMR OzBMR is offline
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Default 02-10-2020, 11:22 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Eric97h
does this look better
You started this run a lot later, about 2800 RPM before 100% accelerator.

Boost is lower than the last version, almost like it wasn't Map 4. Doesn't even get over 18 PSI before 4800 RPM and tapers off pretty quick after 5500 RPM

But overall power and toque looks better than previous one.

Your HPFP pressure is still dipping down as boost hits between 3000 - 4000 RPM and your AFR is rich at the same time.

I notice in the log file that the CPI duty values are lower?

duty_15 20 25 30 35 40 45 50 55 60 65 70
10 15 20 25 30 30 30 30 30 30 30 30

In the previous two lots of logs it was

duty 15 20 25 30 35 40 45 50 55 60 65 70
30 30 30 35 40 45 50 50 50 50 50 50






Ideally you want your AFR to look more like this with the blue line from 3000 - 4000 RPM ...




Australian 2016 M140i LCI Mineral Grey
10.9@127MPH
MHD Stage 2+HPFP E30 OTS, Dorch Stage 2 HPFP, CG Precision DS-1 200 CPI, xHP. Everything else stock.
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Eric97h Eric97h is offline
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Default 02-10-2020, 11:28 PM

yes we put all the duty to 0 to stop over boosting made sure ethanol content was 0 and adjusted some of the jb4 settings here are two logs i did on sports plus as well
Attached Files
File Type: csv 2020-02-10 21_28_08_Map-4.csv (8.2 KB, 100 views)
File Type: csv 2020-02-10 21_30_03_Map-4.csv (8.1 KB, 102 views)
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hubblyking hubblyking is offline
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Default 02-18-2020, 09:08 AM

I've loaded the new firmware .i only managed to do 1 log .Mods:jb +mhd backend,xhp,hybrid turbo,b58 tu hpfp,deepee.40%eth and 91ron
Please check.Had some wheelspin in second gear.
Attached Files
File Type: csv jb new firmwareMap-4.csv (17.7 KB, 115 views)


2018 240i convert
Jb4,backend,xhp,b58tu,hybrid,deep e
South Africa

Last edited by hubblyking; 02-18-2020 at 09:45 AM..
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Terry @ BMS's Avatar
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Default 02-18-2020, 10:11 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by hubblyking
I've loaded the new firmware .i only managed to do 1 log .Mods:jb +mhd backend,xhp,hybrid turbo,b58 tu hpfp,deepee.40%eth and 91ron
Please check.Had some wheelspin in second gear.
Change duty bias to 50 across the board, pid gain to 20, relog.


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Home of the JB4 the worlds most popular turbocharged tuning system!

It is the sole responsibility of the purchaser and installer of any BMS part to employ the correct installation techniques required to ensure the proper operation of BMS parts, and BMS disclaims any and all liability for any part failure due to improper installation or use. It is the sole responsibility of the customer to verify that the use of their vehicle and items purchased comply with federal, state and local regulations. BMS claims no legal federal, state or local certification concerning pollution controlled motor vehicles or mandated emissions requirements. BMS products labeled for use only in competition racing vehicles may only be used on competition racing vehicles operated exclusively on a closed course in conjunction with a sanctioned racing event, in accordance with all federal and state laws, and may never be operated on public roads/highways. Please click here for more information on legal requirements related to use of BMS parts.
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hubblyking hubblyking is offline
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Default 02-18-2020, 11:04 AM

Here is two runs with pid and duty set
Attached Files
File Type: csv pid 20 1st runMap-4.csv (15.4 KB, 112 views)
File Type: csv pid20.csv (15.5 KB, 116 views)


2018 240i convert
Jb4,backend,xhp,b58tu,hybrid,deep e
South Africa
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Default 02-25-2020, 06:46 AM

Hi Terry did you manage to look at the logs i posted with pid20 and duty set at 50


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M4HCP M4HCP is offline
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Default 02-27-2020, 11:59 PM

Is there a specific bef file for non tu cars fitted with a tu pump, or do we just flash the regular ots bef files ?

Thanks
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RMM RMM is offline
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Default v15 FF setting - 03-07-2020, 10:59 PM

Hi guys. I am struggling with the new WDGC Duty Bias settings after upgrading to v15.

Car is as follow:

B48B20A
Meth with CM3 + CM5
e30 + 93 mix
JB4 for boost and meth control
BM3 BEF
Hybrid Turbo
3' Strait Pipe
XHP Stage 3

On v11 I did a custom BM3 tune as the BEF, I have B48 I have no other choice, and tuned the WGDC FF in BM3 "turbine thrust table" to give me good results without using any FF/Duty Bias form JB4, in this case I set FF to 0 and that disabled the FF WGDC Bias, then I added a small amount of JB4 PID with PID Gain = 6 and it worked well to give me additional PID control, as I didn't want to mess with the PID settings in the BEF.

However after I upgraded to v15 I cannot get it stable.

I have tried the following setting:

1) FF = 0, PID Gain = 0, Duty Bias = 50 across first to get baseline, however I could not get a run as it over-boosted to 32 psi with massive throttle closure by 4500 rpm, too much WGDC FF. Even if it was a good pressure test of my charge pipe.

2) FF = 0, PID Gain = 0, Duty Bias = 0 across, this resulted in a maximum of 12 psi, even with ECU target of 18 too little WGDC.

I prefer to understand it, rather then type in numbers and see what happens, would like to ask for help to understand v15 WGDC control in JB4:

1) Does FF do anything, is the FF setting now depreciated? No more FF auto adjustment, right, I didn't use this anyway as it always adjusted too low in v11, so that is fine.

2) What Duty Bias setting would result in 0 or neutral duty bias form the JB4? My preference is to have this as neutral as possible and tune it in the BEF first, then use JB4 to fine tune only.


NOTE or warning for anyone with BM3 + JB4, you must wait 2-3 minutes after disconnecting BM3, with the engines running before you connect the JB4 to the ODB port, if you do it too quickly, the JB4 with read weird values, that do not make sense, and may over-boost without throttle closure, be careful, I saw 28 psi with throttle full open at 4000 rpm, I guess that was a good stress test on by rods. Car went so fast I assumed I did run in the wrong gear, lost traction in 3rd gear!
Attached Files
File Type: csv 20200307_2316_FF_0_underboost.csv (19.4 KB, 97 views)
File Type: csv 20200306_1541_overboost_FF_50.csv (11.5 KB, 97 views)
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(#489)
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RMM RMM is offline
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Default 03-14-2020, 10:03 PM

I figured it out by trial and error. Below WG duty bias should give you very close to flat WGDC curve, or "stock" / map 0 behavior.

RPM 15 20 25 30 35 40 45 50 55 60 65 70
DB 50 50 47 45 42 40 37 35 35 35 35 35

Basically the WGDC system can now go positive and negative relative to stock ECU setting, where 25 is no bias, and above 25 is increased,

The above curve gives you about 25 across a pull form high to low RPM, as seen in attached log.

As far as I can tell the old FF value is no longer used or depreciated.

Personally I like to start form stock then tune form there, these values will give you pretty close to that.

I did try different PID gain as well and when I tried values at 10 or above I got "sluggish WG code" and limp mode consistently after about 20 minutes of driving. If I set it to 5 or 8, then I do not get code, but then also there is less PID control.
Attached Files
File Type: csv 20200314_1548_runs_flat-duty-bias.csv (13.1 KB, 92 views)

Last edited by RMM; 03-14-2020 at 10:04 PM.. Reason: added log
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(#490)
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jostack jostack is offline
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Default 04-11-2020, 02:29 AM

Where is the FutureUseD or FUD bit settings?

I only see Future Use A
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(#491)
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jostack jostack is offline
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Default 04-11-2020, 02:50 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by jostack
Where is the FutureUseD or FUD bit settings?

I only see Future Use A
On page 17 out of 20 I found a post that indicates Futurs Use A is correct for the jb4 app. Could be a crazy person, doesn't seem to be affiliated with BMS. The instructions at the start of the thread clearly say FutureUseD.

As far as I can tell, this thread is the only guidance for using bef and jb4. Please advise.
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RMM RMM is offline
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Default 05-06-2020, 07:43 PM

FYI ended up giving up on using JB4 for boost control on my custom BM3 flash for B48, kept throwing codes, and messing with WG when I didn't want it to, so I pulled the WG connector wire, and now just using JB4 as progressive meth controller and logger, that looks to work best in map 6 with the boost set to all 0, then meth will work and boost control remains per the flash, I tried other maps like map 1 or 0 and meth didn't work.

did some work on the custom flash to dial in the boost curve, it really is a pain, I think I am on revision 20 or something, as you cannot just ask for a certain boost target like in JB4, you need to fiddle with the load and TQ limit tables in a somewhat iterative process, in the end the best way seems to demand more load or TQ then you really need, then limit it back with the load limit and the boost limit to get the boost curve you actually want.
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bymfabrication bymfabrication is offline
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Default 05-08-2020, 02:41 PM

Hi @terry im new on this group please need advice we just finished my big turbo b58 build and need to start tunning it now can jb4 delete the ewg boost controll and controll boost bia a external waist gate or will. we only be able to controll boost via ewg
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Default 05-08-2020, 08:21 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by bymfabrication
Hi @terry im new on this group please need advice we just finished my big turbo b58 build and need to start tunning it now can jb4 delete the ewg boost controll and controll boost bia a external waist gate or will. we only be able to controll boost via ewg
Email me I can help you set it up. Also, the JB4 to control a Tial external wastegate is different physical hardware than a normal JB4 so you'll need that too.

terry@burgertuning.com


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Home of the JB4 the worlds most popular turbocharged tuning system!

It is the sole responsibility of the purchaser and installer of any BMS part to employ the correct installation techniques required to ensure the proper operation of BMS parts, and BMS disclaims any and all liability for any part failure due to improper installation or use. It is the sole responsibility of the customer to verify that the use of their vehicle and items purchased comply with federal, state and local regulations. BMS claims no legal federal, state or local certification concerning pollution controlled motor vehicles or mandated emissions requirements. BMS products labeled for use only in competition racing vehicles may only be used on competition racing vehicles operated exclusively on a closed course in conjunction with a sanctioned racing event, in accordance with all federal and state laws, and may never be operated on public roads/highways. Please click here for more information on legal requirements related to use of BMS parts.
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Default 05-08-2020, 08:22 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by RMM
FYI ended up giving up on using JB4 for boost control on my custom BM3 flash for B48, kept throwing codes, and messing with WG when I didn't want it to, so I pulled the WG connector wire, and now just using JB4 as progressive meth controller and logger, that looks to work best in map 6 with the boost set to all 0, then meth will work and boost control remains per the flash, I tried other maps like map 1 or 0 and meth didn't work.

did some work on the custom flash to dial in the boost curve, it really is a pain, I think I am on revision 20 or something, as you cannot just ask for a certain boost target like in JB4, you need to fiddle with the load and TQ limit tables in a somewhat iterative process, in the end the best way seems to demand more load or TQ then you really need, then limit it back with the load limit and the boost limit to get the boost curve you actually want.
What version of the JB4 firmware? The EWG control in v15 is pretty solid so if you're having issues with it would love to see a log and get those resolved.


Burger Motorsports
Home of the JB4 the worlds most popular turbocharged tuning system!

It is the sole responsibility of the purchaser and installer of any BMS part to employ the correct installation techniques required to ensure the proper operation of BMS parts, and BMS disclaims any and all liability for any part failure due to improper installation or use. It is the sole responsibility of the customer to verify that the use of their vehicle and items purchased comply with federal, state and local regulations. BMS claims no legal federal, state or local certification concerning pollution controlled motor vehicles or mandated emissions requirements. BMS products labeled for use only in competition racing vehicles may only be used on competition racing vehicles operated exclusively on a closed course in conjunction with a sanctioned racing event, in accordance with all federal and state laws, and may never be operated on public roads/highways. Please click here for more information on legal requirements related to use of BMS parts.
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Default 05-08-2020, 08:23 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by jostack
Where is the FutureUseD or FUD bit settings?

I only see Future Use A
It's called options now in the app.


Burger Motorsports
Home of the JB4 the worlds most popular turbocharged tuning system!

It is the sole responsibility of the purchaser and installer of any BMS part to employ the correct installation techniques required to ensure the proper operation of BMS parts, and BMS disclaims any and all liability for any part failure due to improper installation or use. It is the sole responsibility of the customer to verify that the use of their vehicle and items purchased comply with federal, state and local regulations. BMS claims no legal federal, state or local certification concerning pollution controlled motor vehicles or mandated emissions requirements. BMS products labeled for use only in competition racing vehicles may only be used on competition racing vehicles operated exclusively on a closed course in conjunction with a sanctioned racing event, in accordance with all federal and state laws, and may never be operated on public roads/highways. Please click here for more information on legal requirements related to use of BMS parts.
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Default 05-09-2020, 09:36 AM

5/9/20: Updated latest round of files, including minor revisions and several new maps including straight E85 for those running TU or aftermarket high pressure pumps, and revised hybrid/larger turbo maps. Note the G20/Supra maps are not yet posted so if you need one just email me!


Burger Motorsports
Home of the JB4 the worlds most popular turbocharged tuning system!

It is the sole responsibility of the purchaser and installer of any BMS part to employ the correct installation techniques required to ensure the proper operation of BMS parts, and BMS disclaims any and all liability for any part failure due to improper installation or use. It is the sole responsibility of the customer to verify that the use of their vehicle and items purchased comply with federal, state and local regulations. BMS claims no legal federal, state or local certification concerning pollution controlled motor vehicles or mandated emissions requirements. BMS products labeled for use only in competition racing vehicles may only be used on competition racing vehicles operated exclusively on a closed course in conjunction with a sanctioned racing event, in accordance with all federal and state laws, and may never be operated on public roads/highways. Please click here for more information on legal requirements related to use of BMS parts.
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Default 05-13-2020, 12:08 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Terry @ BMS
What version of the JB4 firmware? The EWG control in v15 is pretty solid so if you're having issues with it would love to see a log and get those resolved.
I post logs above, I wanted to first tune the WGDC in BM3 without the JB4 modify the stock WGDC signals. However after a lot of trail and error that seems impossible to do now in v15, if you can give me some hints on how to do that I could try it again, but I think I tired almost every possible combination of setting for the FF, GAIN, and the DUTY BIAS, I think that about 25 on the WGDC was about 0 actual bias, but it just was not consistent, kept floating up an down, especially at lower loads. I even managed to engineer the setting that gave me a perfectly flat 25 across a pull, however it would do that for one pull and them be different the next one, could not figure out why or what was changing.

Also v15 consistently threw the "WGDC sluggish" code, and it only seems to do it at lower loads and RPM like just when cruising around and really it should not be doing anything. Like clockwork after 20 minutes of light driving it would throw it, Once I removed the EWG connector, never saw that code again.

FYI there is a bug where if you flash using BM3, and connect the JB4 after a few minutes, the JB4 goes crazy and the boost control and EWG control is also crazy, if you do not catch it and try to do a pull you can easily hit 30 psi, the car takes off like a rocket but certainly I was worried about bending a rod or something, you need to wait about 10 minutes and turn off the car, then connect JB4, then check the gauges are reading the correct values and it will be OK.
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tZe tZe is offline
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Default Map 1 - Just for Logging and Gauges - 05-16-2020, 08:47 AM

Hi

I was just wondering. If I set Options bit6 (FUD) to on, and use Map 1, does this mean that the JB4 unit is not controlling any of the tuning (boost, AFR, timing etc)?

I already have the JB4 with Bluetooth and love the logging/gauges. I am thinking of trying a couple of different flash maps (both custom and OTS) just for kicks. I was wondering if I could just load the flash map and use the JB4 purely for logging/gauges.

For example. I want to try BMS/MHD OTS tune. I load the tune in, set FUD bit6 and Map 1. Will this work? I don't want the JB4 interfering with the flash map in any way.
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Default 05-30-2020, 10:50 AM

Working on a few changes for those running straight E85 on their JB4 + BEF.. Drop me a log and I can send you the latest!


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It is the sole responsibility of the purchaser and installer of any BMS part to employ the correct installation techniques required to ensure the proper operation of BMS parts, and BMS disclaims any and all liability for any part failure due to improper installation or use. It is the sole responsibility of the customer to verify that the use of their vehicle and items purchased comply with federal, state and local regulations. BMS claims no legal federal, state or local certification concerning pollution controlled motor vehicles or mandated emissions requirements. BMS products labeled for use only in competition racing vehicles may only be used on competition racing vehicles operated exclusively on a closed course in conjunction with a sanctioned racing event, in accordance with all federal and state laws, and may never be operated on public roads/highways. Please click here for more information on legal requirements related to use of BMS parts.
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