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Default 03-30-2015, 02:35 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by robc1976
AN is the only way to go.
Exactly the way I want to go, but how can I make this work with RB twins whilst still ultilising stock OCC plumbing setup? (Similar to HPF setup)
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Default 03-30-2015, 03:12 PM

Well scratch that. Still smoking. Now I have a new issue. Oil leak from where chra bolts into exhaust housing. This is a 6466 with 1000 miles on it. Rob feel free to chime in here. I have a 4 an feed line and a 10an drain straight down to a 45 degree fitting into the oil pan. No restrictor since the 6466 gen 2 already has 1 in it. This turbo has 1000 miles on it. I don't see any reason why this would do this. Anyone have bad luck with precision turbos?
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Default 03-30-2015, 04:06 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by eurocentricllc.com
Well scratch that. Still smoking. Now I have a new issue. Oil leak from where chra bolts into exhaust housing. This is a 6466 with 1000 miles on it. Rob feel free to chime in here. I have a 4 an feed line and a 10an drain straight down to a 45 degree fitting into the oil pan. No restrictor since the 6466 gen 2 already has 1 in it. This turbo has 1000 miles on it. I don't see any reason why this would do this. Anyone have bad luck with precision turbos?
I suspect the lack of vacuum in the vent port is causing over-pressurization and slowing down the drain hence the leak. Don't underestimate the PCV system in this car, it doesn't like to be tinkered with. I tried catch cans and venting to air, in both cases the car went from only smoking during decel to full time and that's at stock boost levels. You probably have the resources to do an exhaust venturi vent, thats probably the best solution for the N54 but I believe no one has tried it yet.
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Default 03-31-2015, 08:46 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by eurocentricllc.com
Well scratch that. Still smoking. Now I have a new issue. Oil leak from where chra bolts into exhaust housing. This is a 6466 with 1000 miles on it. Rob feel free to chime in here.
We've made numerous comments about some of the changes that people are doing to the PCV system that are not completely thought out. Keep in mind we feel that some of their steps in the right direction but only to stop short before the finish line.

We feel that you had an issue with the valve cover gasket, and had left at replacing that, would still be ok.

Plugging the head ports and just venting (or using the cap that does the same thing) is not the best idea without further efforts. These steps performed ALONE are PCV eliminator projects, not PCV Upgrades. May it work, sure, but we do not feel it is ideal and is likely doing more harm than good that could reveal itself in short order or in due time.

We'd suggest removing that AN custom cap and reinstall the RB PCV Valve/cap since you know your valve cover gasket is now good.

Running this configuration will be your best bet until a further improvement is revealed.

Thanks,
Rob


See www.rbturbo.com for N54 Twin Turbo Bolt-On upgrades, or contact directly 314-630-8950 rob.rbturbo@gmail.com for a price quote.
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Default 03-31-2015, 09:13 AM

Well said rob ! Last night I actually had to do just that. I rigged up a clear hose for the turbo drain. What I found out is the oil can't drain fast enough and pools inside the turbo if venting to atmosphere. I'm using a 10an drain. I may not have had this issue with say a 12an drain. But I dont have a 12an drain I have a 10an. Now with the rb pcv put back in guess what..... it drains. Now in theory the an ad engineering fitting would work great as long as you have a vacuum pulled on it. But vent to atmosphere causes turbo draining issues. Now the other issue I had was running 10w60. We can all argue this but I have always liked how bearings looked in a high mileage engine running a thicker oil when I would tear them down so as I alway have done I run 10w60 in my n54. Now the issue with that is every engine I've run thick oil in was always na. The problem with thick oil in a turbo is the thick oil can't drain fast enough. With the clear drain hose on and rb pcv hooked up 5w30 would drain much faster. I hope I can say problem solved. With 5w30 and pcv hooked back up I let it idle for 30 min. No smoke. When I rev it up after 30 min of Idleing I get a small puff of black smoke which is fine. I have a rich tune and no cats. So.... lesson learned here is.... LISTEN TO ROB. Run the pcv valve or the delete with vacuum. But no matter what you must have a vacuum on the crankcase. You may not have smoke but that doesn't mean everything is working as it should. Plus with the crankcase under vacuum you get better ring seal, gasket seal, etc.
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Default 03-31-2015, 09:26 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by eurocentricllc.com
Well said rob ! Last night I actually had to do just that. I rigged up a clear hose for the turbo drain. What I found out is the oil can't drain fast enough and pools inside the turbo if venting to atmosphere. I'm using a 10an drain. I may not have had this issue with say a 12an drain. But I dont have a 12an drain I have a 10an. Now with the rb pcv put back in guess what..... it drains. Now in theory the an ad engineering fitting would work great as long as you have a vacuum pulled on it. But vent to atmosphere causes turbo draining issues. Now the other issue I had was running 10w60. We can all argue this but I have always liked how bearings looked in a high mileage engine running a thicker oil when I would tear them down so as I alway have done I run 10w60 in my n54. Now the issue with that is every engine I've run thick oil in was always na. The problem with thick oil in a turbo is the thick oil can't drain fast enough. With the clear drain hose on and rb pcv hooked up 5w30 would drain much faster. I hope I can say problem solved. With 5w30 and pcv hooked back up I let it idle for 30 min. No smoke. When I rev it up after 30 min of Idleing I get a small puff of black smoke which is fine. I have a rich tune and no cats. So.... lesson learned here is.... LISTEN TO ROB. Run the pcv valve or the delete with vacuum. But no matter what you must have a vacuum on the crankcase. You may not have smoke but that doesn't mean everything is working as it should. Plus with the crankcase under vacuum you get better ring seal, gasket seal, etc.
So I was right? I guess some of the skills acquired rebuilding $65m aircraft do transfer over... good job on the fix
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Default 03-31-2015, 09:29 AM

Good work with your experiment! And correct, the drains are important… if they do not allow the oil OUT of the cartridge then guess where it goes? That is correct out of the seals. Does not mean the turbo is bad? No. (at least not yet). But the seals are being compromised during that period.

Moral of the story is that poor PCV design or maintenance can cause problems and even cause damage to other parts (such as turbo seals, turbo balance, etc) in time if modified incorrectly or maintained insufficiently.

Bar none the best solution with this car at this time is to just ensure the valve cover gasket, valve cover, pcv valve, and vent hose are functionally sound. And until one presents a full solution (and this we have yet to see) this will be our stance.

Rob


See www.rbturbo.com for N54 Twin Turbo Bolt-On upgrades, or contact directly 314-630-8950 rob.rbturbo@gmail.com for a price quote.
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Default 03-31-2015, 10:36 AM

Rob any idea how much vacuum should be on the crankcase? Or any one ever measured it?
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Default 03-31-2015, 10:49 AM

After driving around there is still a little smoke. Pulled off the oil filler cap and set a plastic bag over it to see if it had a vacuum and it wouldn't pull the plastic bag in at all. Doesn't seem like there is any vacuum on the crankcase or if so very little. When I had the valve cover off all pcv ports looked clean. Rob have you seen a valve cover actually go bad and need to be replaced?
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Default 03-31-2015, 12:07 PM

There are many cars running the plugged ports, AD fittings and running great. No smoking, no issues and I am one of them. To be clear also, both AD fittings should be utilized...not just one. Also it is clearly state to block ports when running his fittings and OP did not plug the ports and in turn pressurized the VC possibly causing oil drain issues. I will also say I know the PT have had oil drain issues causing turbo failures. Ask Aubeast...he switched to garret and custom fittings.

Rob, if you come up with something better I will gladly install it.


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Default 03-31-2015, 12:19 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by robc1976
There are many cars running the plugged ports, AD fittings and running great. No smoking, no issues and I am one of them. To be clear also, both AD fittings should be utilized...not just one. Also it is clearly state to block ports when running his fittings and OP did not plug the ports and in turn pressurized the VC possibly causing oil drain issues. I will also say I know the PT have had oil drain issues causing turbo failures. Ask Aubeast...he switched to garret and custom fittings.

Rob, if you come up with something better I will gladly install it.
Agree, plugging the head ports is a sure fire way to ensure pressure doesn't enter the valve cover (which can defect in time).

Will let you know when we are ready on that something better.

Rob


See www.rbturbo.com for N54 Twin Turbo Bolt-On upgrades, or contact directly 314-630-8950 rob.rbturbo@gmail.com for a price quote.
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Default 03-31-2015, 12:53 PM

I've needed a new valve cover immediately after replacement of the valve cover gasket. It's apparently very easy to crack the valve cover when replacing the gasket.
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Default 03-31-2015, 02:37 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob@RBTurbo
Good work with your experiment! And correct, the drains are important… if they do not allow the oil OUT of the cartridge then guess where it goes? That is correct out of the seals. Does not mean the turbo is bad? No. (at least not yet). But the seals are being compromised during that period.

Moral of the story is that poor PCV design or maintenance can cause problems and even cause damage to other parts (such as turbo seals, turbo balance, etc) in time if modified incorrectly or maintained insufficiently.

Bar none the best solution with this car at this time is to just ensure the valve cover gasket, valve cover, pcv valve, and vent hose are functionally sound. And until one presents a full solution (and this we have yet to see) this will be our stance.

Rob
Would you consider making this? With AN fittings and hoses ofcourse?
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Default 03-31-2015, 02:49 PM

Just looked over valve cover and found a crack. Wonder if running 30 psi caused it.
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Default 04-01-2015, 05:46 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by rwalker
I've needed a new valve cover immediately after replacement of the valve cover gasket. It's apparently very easy to crack the valve cover when replacing the gasket.
We have seen this several times as well. These plastics are extremely durable when new but after x amount of heat cycles can get very brittle and easy to break.

Quote:
Originally Posted by _ink
Would you consider making this? With AN fittings and hoses ofcourse?
We have no immediate desire to convert PCV systems to AN, nor make any AN style PCV eliminator adapters.

Quote:
Originally Posted by eurocentricllc.com
Just looked over valve cover and found a crack. Wonder if running 30 psi caused it.
It is possible. Glad you were able to identify this. Post up a pic if you don't mind.


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Default 04-03-2015, 12:26 PM

what i wold like to ask,this drill will fit to new RB PCV or its will go without drill?
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Default 04-05-2015, 02:19 AM

I lifted the oil cap and put a plastic bag over then opening while at idle and there is no vacuum sucking the the plastic bag down, is this correct or does this indicated that there is a vacuum leak somewhere?
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Default 06-01-2015, 03:10 PM

Is it possible that a leaking valve cover gasket could cause oil supply issues to the OEM turbos? I'm not sure if the pressurization of the crank-case could cause a turbo-shaft to be totally shot (dealership said it was by far the worst blown shaft they have ever seen).

EDIT: Sorry, stupid post I just need to accept the fact that I am addicted to power, and as such I need to stop cutting corners and costs and just get my 335i running 100% so its track-ready. I am still interested in whether a small valve cover leak (no symptoms of a leak, but there is definitely a small leak) could result in blown turbos (in other words, am I risking my turbos if I drive hard for the next few weeks while I wait for the parts to arrive?)

I am going to replace my entire valve cover (the cover itself, gasket, and all bolts) as well as the PCV valve and vent hose. Is there anything else I should replace/check while I am in there? The 335i is the only car I have right now, so I need to make sure I have everything I need when I start the install process.

Thank you!


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Last edited by zach1328; 06-01-2015 at 03:25 PM..
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Default 08-10-2015, 01:05 PM

Any updates
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Default 12-31-2015, 06:35 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by eurocentricllc.com
Rob any idea how much vacuum should be on the crankcase? Or any one ever measured it?
Does anyone have the answer to this? Thanks!
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Default 12-31-2015, 08:14 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by eurocentricllc.com
Well said rob ! Last night I actually had to do just that. I rigged up a clear hose for the turbo drain. What I found out is the oil can't drain fast enough and pools inside the turbo if venting to atmosphere. I'm using a 10an drain. I may not have had this issue with say a 12an drain. But I dont have a 12an drain I have a 10an. Now with the rb pcv put back in guess what..... it drains. Now in theory the an ad engineering fitting would work great as long as you have a vacuum pulled on it. But vent to atmosphere causes turbo draining issues. Now the other issue I had was running 10w60. We can all argue this but I have always liked how bearings looked in a high mileage engine running a thicker oil when I would tear them down so as I alway have done I run 10w60 in my n54. Now the issue with that is every engine I've run thick oil in was always na. The problem with thick oil in a turbo is the thick oil can't drain fast enough. With the clear drain hose on and rb pcv hooked up 5w30 would drain much faster. I hope I can say problem solved. With 5w30 and pcv hooked back up I let it idle for 30 min. No smoke. When I rev it up after 30 min of Idleing I get a small puff of black smoke which is fine. I have a rich tune and no cats. So.... lesson learned here is.... LISTEN TO ROB. Run the pcv valve or the delete with vacuum. But no matter what you must have a vacuum on the crankcase. You may not have smoke but that doesn't mean everything is working as it should. Plus with the crankcase under vacuum you get better ring seal, gasket seal, etc.
You mention thicker oil bring an issue here also, but Robs recommended running a thicker oil with high zddp content?
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Default 12-31-2015, 09:56 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by NA55
Does anyone have the answer to this? Thanks!
32 mbar roughly convert to whatever unit you wish
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Default 01-01-2016, 12:17 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Torsion
32 mbar roughly convert to whatever unit you wish
I am assuming this is at idle? Would you happen to know how much vacuum when boosted?
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Default 01-01-2016, 10:07 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by _ink
You mention thicker oil bring an issue here also, but Robs recommended running a thicker oil with high zddp content?
Not exactly our recommendation. We recommend any quality synthetic oil, typically 0-20w and 20-50- most pending on climate and type of engine usage.

Just really have to watch the OEM style synthetics of 30 and below as many are regulated by API for emissions and not performance purposes, meaning would not be ideal for high performance turbo usage. For basic-moderate boost usage any quality oil should be ok, even the basic OEM synthetics. The oil discussion is much beyond this single post (and this is not the thread for it), but there is not a quick and easy answer to summarize every possibility and a blanket thick oil recommendation is not ours.

Rob


See www.rbturbo.com for N54 Twin Turbo Bolt-On upgrades, or contact directly 314-630-8950 rob.rbturbo@gmail.com for a price quote.
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Default 01-01-2016, 10:10 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by NA55
I am assuming this is at idle? Would you happen to know how much vacuum when boosted?
The only vacuum on the crankcase when boosted is through the vent hose, meaning only the vacuum pull is created by the turbo inlet airflow is all that is available. Have not personally measured it, but do not feel it would be much to measure in the high load PCV mode.


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