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KnifeEdge87 KnifeEdge87 is offline
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Default 10-06-2020, 08:06 PM

Map 4 might be OK if you have access to good fuel (I remember you posted somewhere else saying you have access to E30)

KN filter is "okay"

Personally I've never thought the oil it yourself filters have been worth it. They don't filter as well and the gains are marginal at best and the cleaning process is so much more annoying than just buying a new paper filter and dropping it in.

Still out is better than getting a pod filter which is actually negative performance compared to the very well designed factory intakes we get nowadays
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Default 10-06-2020, 08:53 PM

Yup. I filled up with roughly E28 (probably less because I don't know the exact ethanol content of E85 here - varies between 51-85%) today. I always do around E25-28. Idk why I'm scared to do a E30 mixture but it probably wouldn't be too different.

And I got the K&N because a few people run it on the G20 330is and they like it. Similarly, I've read about a few people running it in the B58 Supras and they like it as well. A CAI is way too expensive for our cars and the K&N. Well, if I don't like it, I can always return it I thought I'd run it for a bit and see if it made a difference. If it didn't, I'll stick to the stock filter.


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Default 10-06-2020, 09:02 PM

Yea E25 and E30 is probably not something you can easily see difference even if you had all the proper data.

Yes good call on the drop in filter.

It probably does make sure a difference in terms of sound but I'd be hesitant to believe the performance gains people espouse without really good data to back it up.

None of the after market Cai on the market really provide any benefit, most are harmful because they're not actually cold air intake. If you put a pod filter where the stock airbox is, it sources air from the engine bay. The stock intake system actually does air from outside.

Most factory airboxes are already really really good in terms of where it sources air and most are overbuilt with regards to intake tubing diameter (maybe for the B58 the stick system is more restrictive...)
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Default 10-08-2020, 09:04 AM

Hi Vipinl

Just some comments on my experiences and thoughts on this thread:

1. Drop in filters will increase airflow and improve power by about 5hp-check YouTube for real test comparisons.

2. E28 addition is really helping with you timing and power. I do not use it but it improves your power about 10% based on your wots and comparing it to mine. We drive identical cars.

3. The B46 engine is quite tuned up already as stock, the JB4 does add about 30whp without doing any non stock modifications, this compares quite well with BM3 and MG BEF claims. So I stick with JB4.

4. Comparing tuning performance improvements using WOTs is tricky and without hard data very prone to the placebo effect. Butt dynos are nice but often misleading.

5. The JB4 provides the hard data in the logs. Just divide the change in mph as logged, from 2000 to 5500 rpm, by the logged time it took to get there. That is your acceleration and relates directly to performance and whp. You can do this on the fly with a calculator. You don't need VD or Dragy to prove this to yourself.

6. I plot the log in excel and graph time vs rpm during the wot....when at home on the PC. I just like charts and graphs.

7. IAT is the most important variable for comparing improvement, along with starting rpm and spool up. A 10% change is very likely from one run to the next, just because of IAT change. Slope, load, baro pressure etc. are all factors, but minimal compared to IAT...within normal conditions.

8. When comparing wots, make sure the average IATs are within 1F of each other.

9. I have run map6 at various boost targets and have found 4.3 psi flat the best...using the latest default settings. It is better than map3 and map2, running 93 octane. Varying boost target in map6 is not as good as flat target, based on wot test data. I just think that the engine simply cannot react fast enough to show a difference. There is a lot of mechanical stuff (lag) going on besides electronic control IMHO.

Right now I am running map3, until I install the ewg wire.

Hope this is helpful.


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Default 10-08-2020, 06:31 PM

1. This is borderline categorically untrue. The writing on the wall is quite clear when it comes to air filters. For a well designed filter, yes you WILL get lower pressure drop, thus better flow, thus less power loss, if you go from a "regular" filter to a "hi-flow" filter. But this is at the cost of filtering less stuff. This is just common sense. The problem of going down this route is the amount you can gain is soooooo small that it can't possibly be worth it for someone that OWNS their car.

Check out Air Filtration Test - Bob is the Oil Guy

There are plenty of properly conducted tests that show the pressure drop across OEM paper filters is only marginal (difference between stock and no filter in the above test was 0.07 psi !!).

Any test you see online claiming proven power gains is just BS as it's super easy to fudge figures should you choose to do that. Remember to never ask your barber if you need a haircut.

Likewise pod filters in cars nowadays has the same issue. Stock airboxes source air from the boundary layer or from the front bumper (actual cold air intakes) and minimize flow losses. The push towards efficiency we've seen in the past decade also serve to help us make more power. Pumping losses are losses that both economy and power optimizers strive to eliminate.

2. Ethanol definitely helps with timing and thus power yes. If you can get it definitely run it. Unfortunate I can't get any gas with ANY ethanol content in Hong Kong

High temps, high humidity = terrible power

3. Yeah if you already have a 30i and aren't looking to do more than simple mods I think the JB4 is perfect. If you're on a 20i platform I think a tune is a must as you get throttle closures that are hardcoded into the stock tune from the OEM as part of the "detuning" strategy they have AND the stock tune refuses to run rich even under load & WOT (all the 20i stock tunes i see never go below 14.2 AFR whereas 30i and 40i easily go to low 13s)

4. You're absolutely right

5&6. You sir are a gentleman and a scholar, check out this sheet I made A nerdy present for you all - N54Tech.com - International Turbo Racing Discussion

7&8. I wouldn't say it's the most important, and honestly you can't control your IAT so keeping it in mind is something you should do, but given you can't do anything about it you kinda just have to go

it's almost not possible to have a 10% power output difference because of IAT. Remember ideal gas law PV= NRT. For you to have 10% power difference at same boost you're roughly going to need 10% change in temps. That's next to impossible. It would be like going from 120f IAT to 179f IAT (remember temperature is measured from absolute 0 i.e -273 celcius or 0 kelvin)

9. With the EWG wire an absolute target map is feasible as JB4 has direct control over the wastegate but you should know how to "tune" in the sense of knowing what you need to watch out for before attempting anything. The additive boost (even custom additive boost) has the advantage of "relying" on your stock computer to adjust your boost target lower if it receives enough warning triggers from knock sensors and such.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Turboh
Hi Vipinl

Just some comments on my experiences and thoughts on this thread:

1. Drop in filters will increase airflow and improve power by about 5hp-check YouTube for real test comparisons.

2. E28 addition is really helping with you timing and power. I do not use it but it improves your power about 10% based on your wots and comparing it to mine. We drive identical cars.

3. The B46 engine is quite tuned up already as stock, the JB4 does add about 30whp without doing any non stock modifications, this compares quite well with BM3 and MG BEF claims. So I stick with JB4.

4. Comparing tuning performance improvements using WOTs is tricky and without hard data very prone to the placebo effect. Butt dynos are nice but often misleading.

5. The JB4 provides the hard data in the logs. Just divide the change in mph as logged, from 2000 to 5500 rpm, by the logged time it took to get there. That is your acceleration and relates directly to performance and whp. You can do this on the fly with a calculator. You don't need VD or Dragy to prove this to yourself.

6. I plot the log in excel and graph time vs rpm during the wot....when at home on the PC. I just like charts and graphs.

7. IAT is the most important variable for comparing improvement, along with starting rpm and spool up. A 10% change is very likely from one run to the next, just because of IAT change. Slope, load, baro pressure etc. are all factors, but minimal compared to IAT...within normal conditions.

8. When comparing wots, make sure the average IATs are within 1F of each other.

9. I have run map6 at various boost targets and have found 4.3 psi flat the best...using the latest default settings. It is better than map3 and map2, running 93 octane. Varying boost target in map6 is not as good as flat target, based on wot test data. I just think that the engine simply cannot react fast enough to show a difference. There is a lot of mechanical stuff (lag) going on besides electronic control IMHO.

Right now I am running map3, until I install the ewg wire.

Hope this is helpful.
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KnifeEdge87 KnifeEdge87 is offline
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Default 10-08-2020, 07:06 PM

FWIW

Air Filter Comparison Study - GM Truck Central

Super nerdy test, this is the kinda stuff I live and breathe for.

The TLDR is pick your filter based on what is best at filtering, not what claims to give you the best flow, because they all flow the same.
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VipinLJ VipinLJ is offline
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Default 10-09-2020, 07:23 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Turboh
Hi Vipinl

Just some comments on my experiences and thoughts on this thread:

1. Drop in filters will increase airflow and improve power by about 5hp-check YouTube for real test comparisons.

2. E28 addition is really helping with you timing and power. I do not use it but it improves your power about 10% based on your wots and comparing it to mine. We drive identical cars.

3. The B46 engine is quite tuned up already as stock, the JB4 does add about 30whp without doing any non stock modifications, this compares quite well with BM3 and MG BEF claims. So I stick with JB4.

4. Comparing tuning performance improvements using WOTs is tricky and without hard data very prone to the placebo effect. Butt dynos are nice but often misleading.

5. The JB4 provides the hard data in the logs. Just divide the change in mph as logged, from 2000 to 5500 rpm, by the logged time it took to get there. That is your acceleration and relates directly to performance and whp. You can do this on the fly with a calculator. You don't need VD or Dragy to prove this to yourself.

6. I plot the log in excel and graph time vs rpm during the wot....when at home on the PC. I just like charts and graphs.

7. IAT is the most important variable for comparing improvement, along with starting rpm and spool up. A 10% change is very likely from one run to the next, just because of IAT change. Slope, load, baro pressure etc. are all factors, but minimal compared to IAT...within normal conditions.

8. When comparing wots, make sure the average IATs are within 1F of each other.

9. I have run map6 at various boost targets and have found 4.3 psi flat the best...using the latest default settings. It is better than map3 and map2, running 93 octane. Varying boost target in map6 is not as good as flat target, based on wot test data. I just think that the engine simply cannot react fast enough to show a difference. There is a lot of mechanical stuff (lag) going on besides electronic control IMHO.

Right now I am running map3, until I install the ewg wire.

Hope this is helpful.
Heya

I went through your post and I've taken note of what you said. You're another very helpful person!

What is the latest default setting? The one in the first page of the sticky? I tried the 4.3 (or was it 4.5?) a while back when you mentioned it and found it to be very conservative compared to map 2 and 3 which felt punchy. I drove around with that but I missed the punch, which is why I went back to map 3. I can try that again with the new settings and see how it goes.

Please let me know how the ewg install went. And if you think it is worth it. I'd love to hear your update.


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VipinLJ VipinLJ is offline
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Default 10-09-2020, 07:36 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by KnifeEdge87
FWIW

Air Filter Comparison Study - GM Truck Central

Super nerdy test, this is the kinda stuff I live and breathe for.

The TLDR is pick your filter based on what is best at filtering, not what claims to give you the best flow, because they all flow the same.
Hey knifedge!

I got a few logs with the settings you mentioned in post 41. Unfortunately, today was a hot day (83F) compared to the other days when I got logs. But I've got some logs nevertheless.
Please do look at it when you can and let me know how they are. Car definitely feels punchy. My butt Dyno doesn't notice a difference compared to map 3 but that's a good thing because with all the other settings, I felt it was slower. Not the case this time.
Attached Files
File Type: csv P58_M6_R1_201009_log1.csv (10.5 KB, 19 views)
File Type: csv P58_M6_R1_201009_log2.csv (9.3 KB, 17 views)
File Type: csv P58_M3_R1_201009_log.csv (9.2 KB, 17 views)


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Default 10-09-2020, 07:45 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by VipinLJ
Hey knifedge!

I got a few logs with the settings you mentioned in post 41. Unfortunately, today was a hot day (83F) compared to the other days when I got logs. But I've got some logs nevertheless.
Please do look at it when you can and let me know how they are. Car definitely feels punchy. My butt Dyno doesn't notice a difference compared to map 3 but that's a good thing because with all the other settings, I felt it was slower. Not the case this time.

I'm out right now so kind of hard to read logs on my mobile

Will get to it over the next couple days for sure though

You should check out that air filter study

It's a bit old but honestly not much had happened in the paper filter stage in years if not decades. Even I forgot how big a deal the results were. Something like you get a slight improvement on flow of less than a percent but your filtration efficiency goes down by like 100% (as in if you filtered 99%particles before now you filter 98%). To me that's absolutely not worth it as stuff getting into your combustion chamber, mixing with oil and screwing with your valve seats and cyl walls is irreparable. When I saw this I ripped out all the k&n filters on my cars and went straight to amsoil or oem
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Default 10-09-2020, 07:52 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by KnifeEdge87
I'm out right now so kind of hard to read logs on my mobile

Will get to it over the next couple days for sure though

You should check out that air filter study

It's a bit old but honestly not much had happened in the paper filter stage in years if not decades. Even I forgot how big a deal the results were. Something like you get a slight improvement on flow of less than a percent but your filtration efficiency goes down by like 100% (as in if you filtered 99%particles before now you filter 98%). To me that's absolutely not worth it as stuff getting into your combustion chamber, mixing with oil and screwing with your valve seats and cyl walls is irreparable. When I saw this I ripped out all the k&n filters on my cars and went straight to amsoil or oem
Lol

Kn actually let 35% contaminants through vs the best filter which is <1%
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Default 10-09-2020, 09:40 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by VipinLJ
Hey knifedge!

I got a few logs with the settings you mentioned in post 41. Unfortunately, today was a hot day (83F) compared to the other days when I got logs. But I've got some logs nevertheless.
Please do look at it when you can and let me know how they are. Car definitely feels punchy. My butt Dyno doesn't notice a difference compared to map 3 but that's a good thing because with all the other settings, I felt it was slower. Not the case this time.
Map6 settings look good, timing drop at 2500-3000 still not ideal but given you are seeing the same on map3 there’s little to worry about. It recovers quickly but if I were you I would still back off the boost at that range until timing is consistently above 2 or 3 degrees. Yes you are giving up some grunt but for me personally I don’t mind losing some steam at an rpm I shouldn’t be at anyways.

Aside from the EWG for JB4 I don't think there’s much more on the table unless you’re willing to put more $ in (a real flash tune + down pipe with hi flow *** or *** delete)
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Default 10-10-2020, 06:51 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by KnifeEdge87
Map6 settings look good, timing drop at 2500-3000 still not ideal but given you are seeing the same on map3 thereís little to worry about. It recovers quickly but if I were you I would still back off the boost at that range until timing is consistently above 2 or 3 degrees. Yes you are giving up some grunt but for me personally I donít mind losing some steam at an rpm I shouldnít be at anyways.

Aside from the EWG for JB4 I don't think thereís much more on the table unless youíre willing to put more $ in (a real flash tune + down pipe with hi flow *** or *** delete)
Ok. So what should I set the boost to? I don't mind dropping the boost as long as it's good for the engine. It's at 6 at 2500 and 6.5 at 3500.

And I'm not sure I want to put in more considering it's a lease and I might get an M340i or something once this lease is up in two years.
But who knows. I might get a flash tune IF it is faster than the JB4, which I doubt. And I don't mind getting the EWG cable but I'm worried about the install since I'm not adept technically.


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VipinLJ VipinLJ is offline
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Default 10-10-2020, 06:52 AM

And yes. I have read about K&N letting particles through. I installed it yesterday and didn't notice any difference. I thought I'd run it for a few days and of I don't notice any difference, I'll just return it and go back to the stock filter. I definitely don't want less filtration!


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Default 10-10-2020, 07:57 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by VipinLJ
Ok. So what should I set the boost to? I don't mind dropping the boost as long as it's good for the engine. It's at 6 at 2500 and 6.5 at 3500.

And I'm not sure I want to put in more considering it's a lease and I might get an M340i or something once this lease is up in two years.
But who knows. I might get a flash tune IF it is faster than the JB4, which I doubt. And I don't mind getting the EWG cable but I'm worried about the install since I'm not adept technically.

Try below on for size

1000 @ 4
1500 @ 4
2000 @ 4
2500 @ 4
3000 @ 5.5
3500 @ 6.5
4000 @ 7
4500 to 5500 @ 7.5
6000 @ 7
6500 @ 6

Forget about the EWG for now then
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Thumbs up 10-10-2020, 07:58 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by VipinLJ
And yes. I have read about K&N letting particles through. I installed it yesterday and didn't notice any difference. I thought I'd run it for a few days and of I don't notice any difference, I'll just return it and go back to the stock filter. I definitely don't want less filtration!
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Default 10-10-2020, 12:40 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by KnifeEdge87
Try below on for size

1000 @ 4
1500 @ 4
2000 @ 4
2500 @ 4
3000 @ 5.5
3500 @ 6.5
4000 @ 7
4500 to 5500 @ 7.5
6000 @ 7
6500 @ 6

Forget about the EWG for now then
Will do sir. Though it'll be a few days for logs since I just washed my car and don't want to take her out yet


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Default 10-11-2020, 06:13 PM

Quote:
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Will do sir. Though it'll be a few days for logs since I just washed my car and don't want to take her out yet
Coolio

I don't imagine we'll see a huge diff

If you can (again only if conditions allow) try a 4th gear pull too
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Default 10-11-2020, 08:07 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by KnifeEdge87
Coolio

I don't imagine we'll see a huge diff

If you can (again only if conditions allow) try a 4th gear pull too
Yup. I can do a 4th gear pull. I live in BFE. Lots of empty roads leading to nowhere. So yes. Hopefully in a few days!!


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Default 10-12-2020, 09:23 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by KnifeEdge87
1. This is borderline categorically untrue. The writing on the wall is quite clear when it comes to air filters. For a well designed filter, yes you WILL get lower pressure drop, thus better flow, thus less power loss, if you go from a "regular" filter to a "hi-flow" filter. But this is at the cost of filtering less stuff. This is just common sense. The problem of going down this route is the amount you can gain is soooooo small that it can't possibly be worth it for someone that OWNS their car.

Check out Air Filtration Test - Bob is the Oil Guy

There are plenty of properly conducted tests that show the pressure drop across OEM paper filters is only marginal (difference between stock and no filter in the above test was 0.07 psi !!).

Any test you see online claiming proven power gains is just BS as it's super easy to fudge figures should you choose to do that. Remember to never ask your barber if you need a haircut.

Likewise pod filters in cars nowadays has the same issue. Stock airboxes source air from the boundary layer or from the front bumper (actual cold air intakes) and minimize flow losses. The push towards efficiency we've seen in the past decade also serve to help us make more power. Pumping losses are losses that both economy and power optimizers strive to eliminate.

2. Ethanol definitely helps with timing and thus power yes. If you can get it definitely run it. Unfortunate I can't get any gas with ANY ethanol content in Hong Kong

High temps, high humidity = terrible power

3. Yeah if you already have a 30i and aren't looking to do more than simple mods I think the JB4 is perfect. If you're on a 20i platform I think a tune is a must as you get throttle closures that are hardcoded into the stock tune from the OEM as part of the "detuning" strategy they have AND the stock tune refuses to run rich even under load & WOT (all the 20i stock tunes i see never go below 14.2 AFR whereas 30i and 40i easily go to low 13s)

4. You're absolutely right

5&6. You sir are a gentleman and a scholar, check out this sheet I made A nerdy present for you all - N54Tech.com - International Turbo Racing Discussion

7&8. I wouldn't say it's the most important, and honestly you can't control your IAT so keeping it in mind is something you should do, but given you can't do anything about it you kinda just have to go

it's almost not possible to have a 10% power output difference because of IAT. Remember ideal gas law PV= NRT. For you to have 10% power difference at same boost you're roughly going to need 10% change in temps. That's next to impossible. It would be like going from 120f IAT to 179f IAT (remember temperature is measured from absolute 0 i.e -273 celcius or 0 kelvin)

9. With the EWG wire an absolute target map is feasible as JB4 has direct control over the wastegate but you should know how to "tune" in the sense of knowing what you need to watch out for before attempting anything. The additive boost (even custom additive boost) has the advantage of "relying" on your stock computer to adjust your boost target lower if it receives enough warning triggers from knock sensors and such.
Hello Knife,

Good comments and interesting. Here are some of my additional thoughts:

Regarding filters, check this test comparison at Do Performance Air Filters Actually Work? - YouTube. I like him and he makes sense. I did not read all of the oil guy info, but if he is proving filter performance using static pressure drop, it is fraught with many issues and I would not trust it. (laminar flow vs turbulent, sample location, sampler sensor shape etc. It is just not worth doing it this way, unless you have a well designed test bench. That is why I prefer the dyno comparison. It is closer to real world. Not perfect though.

I like your Nerdy workbook ..good work...I have done something similar...just not as classy...just fun to run. Did you use the JB4 data for these comparisons?

I do disagree with your point on IAT. IAT change does more than just affect air density. The The ECU maps adjust timing, throttle opening, boost level etc. based in part on IATs. That is why I do WOTs, and plot them as a function IATs. The slope of that curve consistently shows a 10 - 20 % drop in acceleration over a 100 F change in IAT. Starting at 30 F, it easy to get to 130 F with a few WOTs. It illustrates why butt dyno is tricky.

I am aware of PV=nRT and absolute temperatures.

Great discussion.



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Default 10-12-2020, 03:09 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Turboh
Hello Knife,

Good comments and interesting. Here are some of my additional thoughts:

Regarding filters, check this test comparison at Do Performance Air Filters Actually Work? - YouTube. I like him and he makes sense. I did not read all of the oil guy info, but if he is proving filter performance using static pressure drop, it is fraught with many issues and I would not trust it. (laminar flow vs turbulent, sample location, sampler sensor shape etc. It is just not worth doing it this way, unless you have a well designed test bench. That is why I prefer the dyno comparison. It is closer to real world. Not perfect though.

I like your Nerdy workbook ..good work...I have done something similar...just not as classy...just fun to run. Did you use the JB4 data for these comparisons?

I do disagree with your point on IAT. IAT change does more than just affect air density. The The ECU maps adjust timing, throttle opening, boost level etc. based in part on IATs. That is why I do WOTs, and plot them as a function IATs. The slope of that curve consistently shows a 10 - 20 % drop in acceleration over a 100 F change in IAT. Starting at 30 F, it easy to get to 130 F with a few WOTs. It illustrates why butt dyno is tricky.

I am aware of PV=nRT and absolute temperatures.

Great discussion.


For the filter study there were actually two I linked to. One is "real world" and another is a test bench. I don't think laminar flies vs turbulent flow should really matter that much because flow through an intake almost certainly will be in one regime regardless of whether it was a test bench or real world test.

He is testing filter flow performance via pressure drop which seems perfectly reasonable (the other study uses MAF with known vacuum source)

The bench test is where it's at (the gmtrucks one which is static bench test)

The thing with the dyno tests is they're comparatively expensive to run and inherently have variability as well. You can have the same car back to back give 5% different peak numbers just from normal variance. It's not hard for those selling intake systems from picking and choosing their runs to suit the narrative they want to give.

I have used jb4 data to compare against my sheet and they're pretty bang on at the speeds I was looking at.

Is hard to get exact as you know because real world conditions vs "the lab" but the point is to get a rough feel of what type of deltas you should expect from a given increase in engine performance.

Oh if you're taking about 100f change in iat I absolutely agree with you it would matter. I was under the impression you were suggesting users should try to keep iat within 1f between runs. Fortunately (or unfortunately) I'm blessed with living in a city with almost year round 95f outside temps and 80% humidity... Not great for power...

Wow 30f initial iat... I haven't seen snow in ages
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VipinLJ VipinLJ is offline
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Car: G20 330i, F25 X3, B9 SQ5, C7.5 A7
Default 10-13-2020, 01:30 PM

Got a few logs with latest settings from post 64. When it upshifts at WOT to 2nd and 3rd, it feels like there's a slight loss in power, making it feel jerky. The settings before this one eliminated that and shifts were perfect. I have this same feeling in map 3 too, but not this pronounced. Not sure why that happens.
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2018 Audi SQ5 Prestige
2017 Audi A7 Prestige
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KnifeEdge87 KnifeEdge87 is offline
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Default 10-13-2020, 04:36 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by VipinLJ
Got a few logs with latest settings from post 64. When it upshifts at WOT to 2nd and 3rd, it feels like there's a slight loss in power, making it feel jerky. The settings before this one eliminated that and shifts were perfect. I have this same feeling in map 3 too, but not this pronounced. Not sure why that happens.
1000 @ 4
1500 @ 4
2000 @ 4
2500 @ 4
3000 @ 5.5
3500 @ 6.5
4000 @ 7
4500 to 5500 @ 7.5
6000 @ 7.3
6500 @ 7

Timing at the bottom end still tough to get rid of but it seems like that's not something we're going to be able to solve without a proper flash tune.

The problem you described is a bit too wishy washy to diagnose and I can't really see anything in the log (especially since I don't see any 2nd to third action in the logs you gave.

Could be because difference in boost between top of 2nd and where you end up in third but honestly I doubt it since our hearts are spread quite tight.

You have a gopro?

Sometimes a video mm a secure mount tells a better story than logs for stuff like this
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KnifeEdge87 KnifeEdge87 is offline
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Default 10-13-2020, 04:41 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by KnifeEdge87
1000 @ 4
1500 @ 4
2000 @ 4
2500 @ 4
3000 @ 5.5
3500 @ 6.5
4000 @ 7
4500 to 5500 @ 7.5
6000 @ 7.3
6500 @ 7

Timing at the bottom end still tough to get rid of but it seems like that's not something we're going to be able to solve without a proper flash tune.

The problem you described is a bit too wishy washy to diagnose and I can't really see anything in the log (especially since I don't see any 2nd to third action in the logs you gave.

Could be because difference in boost between top of 2nd and where you end up in third but honestly I doubt it since our gears are spread quite tight.

You have a gopro?

Sometimes a video from a secure mount tells a better story than logs for stuff like this
In general the new map 6 feels better or same as map 3 when you're in the upper rpm range?

We're getting close to running constantly at 20ish psi. Especially if you don't want to do any mods I think we're close to the end.

You're also on a lease, some people think about this from perspective of, it's a lease I'll trash it to tell, some say, it's a lease I shouldn't go too far.... Lemme know if you wanna push it some more. I don't think we're at the limit yet but beyond here we're definitely on the diminishing gains territory and progress will be a lot slower
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VipinLJ VipinLJ is offline
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Default 10-13-2020, 04:56 PM

Unfortunately I don't have a gopro. Let me see what I can do with regards to getting a video of the (small) issue (which I too attributed to the difference in boost).

And I understand we're almost at the end.

Compared to map 3, the present map 6 (settings from post 64) seems similar at the top end. But low and mid, it feels slightly restricted (map 3 feels more free/effortless/less restrictive, if that makes sense). With the previous settings (from post 41), the car felt closer to map 3. I'd say overall, that felt better since the jerk when upshifting near the red line was absent.

I'll try the latest settings you sent (from post 72).

And I don't mind pushing a bit more as long as I don't blow the engine :D I still haven't seen any logs from flash tuned G20 330is to see if they have timing issues as well. Maybe I should get a log on map 0 to see if it is present (I've been going over my old logs and I've seen the timing issue in all of them).

I appreciate all the help!!


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KnifeEdge87 KnifeEdge87 is offline
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Default 10-13-2020, 05:19 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by KnifeEdge87
In general the new map 6 feels better or same as map 3 when you're in the upper rpm range?

We're getting close to running constantly at 20ish psi. Especially if you don't want to do any mods I think we're close to the end.

You're also on a lease, some people think about this from perspective of, it's a lease I'll trash it to tell, some say, it's a lease I shouldn't go too far.... Lemme know if you wanna push it some more. I don't think we're at the limit yet but beyond here we're definitely on the diminishing gains territory and progress will be a lot slower
Quote:
Originally Posted by VipinLJ
Unfortunately I don't have a gopro. Let me see what I can do with regards to getting a video of the (small) issue (which I too attributed to the difference in boost).

And I understand we're almost at the end.

Compared to map 3, the present map 6 (settings from post 64) seems similar at the top end. But low and mid, it feels slightly restricted (map 3 feels more free/effortless/less restrictive, if that makes sense). With the previous settings (from post 41), the car felt closer to map 3. I'd say overall, that felt better since the jerk when upshifting near the red line was absent.

I'll try the latest settings you sent (from post 72).

And I don't mind pushing a bit more as long as I don't blow the engine :D I still haven't seen any logs from flash tuned G20 330is to see if they have timing issues as well. Maybe I should get a log on map 0 to see if it is present (I've been going over my old logs and I've seen the timing issue in all of them).

I appreciate all the help!!
This is why you can't really trust the butt dyno

Compared to your last map 3 log from post 58 I see your definitely making gains everywhere at least boost wise. Once we're relatively settled in you can do some draggy comparisons on the same stretch of road, single gear pull so you can compare times. I'm not sure if dragy gives fine resolution like every 5mph or something but that's what you should use to compare. Same road, same direction, same day, cool down between runs throw out the first run of the day.

Yes go ahead try a map 0 to see if stock also pulls timing to <3 at 2500to3000. If so then for sure we have no shot getting rid of that (but at the same time that would also means we don't have to worry and we can pump the bottom end back up)

It's again at this stage I would suggest the EWG since we're approaching absolute boats which we should be trying to limit but we're still using an additive strategy. From the dmebt is clear we should be using additive of like +8 or +9 at the top end but if someday the ecu decides to target something higher at the upper end we potentially can have issues.

All in all I hope you're having fun with the experience so far, I know I am. I know the constant runs can get a bit monotonous but it really is necessary (or you pay for dyno time, then you can get this done much faster)


Honestly the EWG install isn't that big a deal, if you don't want to do yourself in sure a mechanically inclined friend can be coaxed into helping for a 6 pack of beer =)

It really would improve our confidence to go farther and it's relatively low cost (especially since you can resell the cable when the lease is up)
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