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Question methanol installation help - 01-28-2020, 04:07 PM

Hi I am looking for advice on installing JB4 methanol kit, besides the install guide they have posted is there anything else I should be aware of?


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JBoe JBoe is offline
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Default 01-29-2020, 10:01 PM

There's a few posts about the installs. Do a search and you'll find them. I posted a bit about mine.


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Smile 02-02-2020, 04:57 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by JBoe
There's a few posts about the installs. Do a search and you'll find them. I posted a bit about mine.
Okay thank you I will look again, I'll post here if I have any more questions
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Question 02-15-2020, 09:49 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by JBoe
There's a few posts about the installs. Do a search and you'll find them. I posted a bit about mine.
So I have been trying to do some digging in the threads and was looking for what to put in the meth tank when I install it. I cam across "Boost Juice" would that be what I put in for the best results?
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Default 02-17-2020, 12:42 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by 340iMX
So I have been trying to do some digging in the threads and was looking for what to put in the meth tank when I install it. I cam across "Boost Juice" would that be what I put in for the best results?
That's a great start and what most start with. If you can get M1 (Methanol 99.9%), go with that. It's better overall and adds the most to the B58 for this type of injection. It can be tough to find though.


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BMS Meth Kit (100% M1)
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CA 91 Piss Gas...
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JB4 (Map 7 - Add 45... 19-20psi)
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Question 02-17-2020, 01:23 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by JBoe
That's a great start and what most start with. If you can get M1 (Methanol 99.9%), go with that. It's better overall and adds the most to the B58 for this type of injection. It can be tough to find though.
Okay great, I believe I can get M1 from VP Racing website. Also this might be a dumb question but I recently brought a cattless down pipe. Would that effect the way the car runs like with the tune at all? Should I post logs with it on? Or will the car be okay/ the same besides the possibility of a CEL?
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Default 02-17-2020, 09:09 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by 340iMX
Okay great, I believe I can get M1 from VP Racing website. Also this might be a dumb question but I recently brought a cattless down pipe. Would that effect the way the car runs like with the tune at all? Should I post logs with it on? Or will the car be okay/ the same besides the possibility of a CEL?
Car will be fine, it just throws a CEL.

Make sure you test for leaks with water only at first before adding methanol.


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Question 02-26-2020, 07:56 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by JBoe
That's a great start and what most start with. If you can get M1 (Methanol 99.9%), go with that. It's better overall and adds the most to the B58 for this type of injection. It can be tough to find though.
Okay so it turns out I can’t get M1 methanol they don’t ship it to home addresses so I got “big juice” instead off of ecs. Would I still be able to be on map 7? With 20 psi I believe?
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Default 02-27-2020, 08:11 PM

It's best to start low and log. From there we review and support. I had issues trying to maintain 20psi on water/meth mix. 18psi was doable though.


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JB4 (Map 7 - Add 45... 19-20psi)
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Question 02-27-2020, 10:02 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by JBoe
It's best to start low and log. From there we review and support. I had issues trying to maintain 20psi on water/meth mix. 18psi was doable though.
Okay so when it is all installed I do logs on map 7, with WMI signal scaling at 60, boost additive at 40, min RPM at 2,000, max RPM at 7,000? Also do I need to get the JB4 F chassis EWG add on connector?
Sorry for all the newbie questions just want to get it right the first time, thanks for all the help guys I really appreciate everything
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Default 03-01-2020, 08:26 PM

You don't have to get the EWG, but it's recommended for map 7 applications. I use it to even out boost across and find most have to or you will be boosting less than target.

Your other statements/questions are correct.


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BMS Meth Kit (100% M1)
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Question Meth amp 7 logs - 03-14-2020, 06:03 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by JBoe
You don't have to get the EWG, but it's recommended for map 7 applications. I use it to even out boost across and find most have to or you will be boosting less than target.

Your other statements/questions are correct.
So I installed the meth kit with the ewg wire boost additive-40, signal scaling-60, min flow boost-0, min rpm 2000, max 7,000. Everything else is 0 and unchecked. Here are two logs is everything looking good? I also have access to e85 if that helps thanks guys
Attached Files
File Type: csv 2020-03-14 19_33_36_Map-7 1st log .csv (6.5 KB, 83 views)
File Type: csv 2020-03-14 19_38_32_Map-7 2nd log.csv (6.1 KB, 87 views)
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Question Map 7 log - 03-16-2020, 03:42 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by JBoe
You don't have to get the EWG, but it's recommended for map 7 applications. I use it to even out boost across and find most have to or you will be boosting less than target.

Your other statements/questions are correct.
Here’s another log, I noticed the car had better logs the more I ran it, thanks guys, stay save from the Coronavirus
Attached Files
File Type: csv 3rd 2020-03-16 17_16_03_Map-7.csv (7.8 KB, 83 views)
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Default 03-19-2020, 07:48 PM

I don't see anything that's raising an alarm, but it's not a proper log for a solid evaluation. Logs should be from 2000rpm to at least 6500rpm in 3rd or 4th gear. 3rd is what's generally used as it keeps the speeds down.

Please get a proper log up and we can review with more feedback. I do see that you're boost isn't matching target, but you duty bias settings are likely causing this. Try putting them all to 50 and get a few good pulls in before logging. That way FF adapts and we can see what adjustments are needed from there. Placing at 50 should give you more boost towards redline. Just fyi...

I also noticed that your last safety trigger was a 3 for low fuel safety. Did you have an issue before this log that triggered a safety map change? From what I see, things look okay and shouldn't be causing any safety trips.


AFE Drop-in Filter
BMS Meth Kit (100% M1)
Muffler Delete
CA 91 Piss Gas...
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JB4 (Map 7 - Add 45... 19-20psi)
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Question 03-19-2020, 08:01 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by JBoe
I don't see anything that's raising an alarm, but it's not a proper log for a solid evaluation. Logs should be from 2000rpm to at least 6500rpm in 3rd or 4th gear. 3rd is what's generally used as it keeps the speeds down.

Please get a proper log up and we can review with more feedback. I do see that you're boost isn't matching target, but you duty bias settings are likely causing this. Try putting them all to 50 and get a few good pulls in before logging. That way FF adapts and we can see what adjustments are needed from there. Placing at 50 should give you more boost towards redline. Just fyi...

I also noticed that your last safety trigger was a 3 for low fuel safety. Did you have an issue before this log that triggered a safety map change? From what I see, things look okay and shouldn't be causing any safety trips.
Okay will do, I’ll do some proper logs and post them, and I didn’t notice anything changed in terms of the safety map. Thank you for the help
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Question 03-19-2020, 08:11 PM

Quick question all the 0’s on the right switch them all to 50?
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File Type: pdf PDF Photos 2020-03-19.pdf (351.3 KB, 92 views)
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Default 03-19-2020, 08:33 PM

I'm hoping that the screen shot was of a not-connected Bluetooth... lol. Yes, duty bias column from 1500-7000, set to 50.

In the log you posted, they were:
1500 - 10
2000 - 15
2500 - 20
3000 - 25
3500 - 30
4000 - 30
4500 - 30
5000 - 30
5500 - 30
6000 - 30
6500 - 30
7000 - 30

You can try setting the "Last Safety" to 0 when you save. I believe that should reset it so that we can tell if it triggers again. If you have issues and feel the car drop power, be sure to look at the last safety triggered. It will help in figuring out what happened when reviewing the log. If things are happy and just need some tweaking, it should be 0. Whenever it changes, it's due to an issue that needs to be reviewed and corrected.


AFE Drop-in Filter
BMS Meth Kit (100% M1)
Muffler Delete
CA 91 Piss Gas...
(8oz Boostane 95ish Oct)
E85 (2Gal/Fill)
BEF (Race_WMI)
JB4 (Map 7 - Add 45... 19-20psi)
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Default 03-20-2020, 06:57 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by JBoe
I'm hoping that the screen shot was of a not-connected Bluetooth... lol. Yes, duty bias column from 1500-7000, set to 50.

In the log you posted, they were:
1500 - 10
2000 - 15
2500 - 20
3000 - 25
3500 - 30
4000 - 30
4500 - 30
5000 - 30
5500 - 30
6000 - 30
6500 - 30
7000 - 30

You can try setting the "Last Safety" to 0 when you save. I believe that should reset it so that we can tell if it triggers again. If you have issues and feel the car drop power, be sure to look at the last safety triggered. It will help in figuring out what happened when reviewing the log. If things are happy and just need some tweaking, it should be 0. Whenever it changes, it's due to an issue that needs to be reviewed and corrected.
Lmao yes it was, okay I will set those settings and post logs thank you for the help
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Default 03-20-2020, 02:23 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by JBoe
I'm hoping that the screen shot was of a not-connected Bluetooth... lol. Yes, duty bias column from 1500-7000, set to 50.

In the log you posted, they were:
1500 - 10
2000 - 15
2500 - 20
3000 - 25
3500 - 30
4000 - 30
4500 - 30
5000 - 30
5500 - 30
6000 - 30
6500 - 30
7000 - 30

You can try setting the "Last Safety" to 0 when you save. I believe that should reset it so that we can tell if it triggers again. If you have issues and feel the car drop power, be sure to look at the last safety triggered. It will help in figuring out what happened when reviewing the log. If things are happy and just need some tweaking, it should be 0. Whenever it changes, it's due to an issue that needs to be reviewed and corrected.
So I just did a log, did a couple little pulls before the log, I notice power dropped on the top of third gear but other gears felt good, tirms did go down to 16/17 at idle
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File Type: csv 2020-03-20 16_06_27_Map-7 4th.csv (12.5 KB, 75 views)
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Question Map 7 logs - 03-21-2020, 02:06 PM

Did some more logs, at the end of the 2nd log the engine was having a little hiccup but seems to be okay.
Attached Files
File Type: csv 5th 2020-03-21 14_39_07_Map-7.csv (9.5 KB, 82 views)
File Type: csv 6th 2020-03-21 14_39_45_Map-7.csv (7.0 KB, 77 views)
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Question 03-23-2020, 07:21 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by JBoe
I'm hoping that the screen shot was of a not-connected Bluetooth... lol. Yes, duty bias column from 1500-7000, set to 50.

In the log you posted, they were:
1500 - 10
2000 - 15
2500 - 20
3000 - 25
3500 - 30
4000 - 30
4500 - 30
5000 - 30
5500 - 30
6000 - 30
6500 - 30
7000 - 30

You can try setting the "Last Safety" to 0 when you save. I believe that should reset it so that we can tell if it triggers again. If you have issues and feel the car drop power, be sure to look at the last safety triggered. It will help in figuring out what happened when reviewing the log. If things are happy and just need some tweaking, it should be 0. Whenever it changes, it's due to an issue that needs to be reviewed and corrected.
I recently go a check engine light for too much air, I didn’t get the code I thought it was for the *** less down pipe so I cleared it right away I was also unable to clear last safety
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Default 03-27-2020, 06:34 PM

Log #6 is really not one we can use, you started in 2nd with wheelspin that makes everything crazy... then the car has to recover at the high end of third, which barely happens... then 4th is short and provides no real good feedback.

Please stick with the 3rd gear and up pulls, for now, until you get sorted. I'm not super active on the boards, but will help when I'm able.

Your 4th and 5th logs have some good insight. See below...

1) Your maxing out your fuel for too long even with FOL at 60. Do you have the FF wires for that part to work? I can see you don't have a BEF as DME BT is way lower than a flashes level should be.

2) Our cars, on stock DME tune, tend to have some interesting DME BT adjustments. One minute everything is happy and the car is ripping, the next it's flat on it's face, then it's back again. It's weird and only happens when you're pushing the stock DME to it's limits... like you are.

3) Meth is activating really early. All your logs show it as being set to activate at 0 PSI. I recommend you set that to at least 8 for now. If this is in error, please post a pick of the settings seen after you connect to the JB4. Terry may have to get involved at that point.

Recommendations:

1) Put Additive down to 30 and lets see how that goes. If we can get your fuel under control, it may even a lot of the DME BT drops out and provide more consistency.

2) If you don't have the FF wires connected, put FF at 0 and leave it there moving forward. If you do have the FF wires, let's lower it to 40 before you do you logging. I've seen our cars do weird things when FF is maxed out like this. (60 is maxing out)

When you've got these two items done and gotten FF learned in after a 3-5 pulls, then post a log starting in 3rd @2k to redline, shifting into 4th to redline ish… no need for 5th. We should be able to see a lot with that data and the suggested changes made. Have fun and be safe...


AFE Drop-in Filter
BMS Meth Kit (100% M1)
Muffler Delete
CA 91 Piss Gas...
(8oz Boostane 95ish Oct)
E85 (2Gal/Fill)
BEF (Race_WMI)
JB4 (Map 7 - Add 45... 19-20psi)
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Question 03-28-2020, 09:12 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by JBoe
Log #6 is really not one we can use, you started in 2nd with wheelspin that makes everything crazy... then the car has to recover at the high end of third, which barely happens... then 4th is short and provides no real good feedback.

Please stick with the 3rd gear and up pulls, for now, until you get sorted. I'm not super active on the boards, but will help when I'm able.

Your 4th and 5th logs have some good insight. See below...

1) Your maxing out your fuel for too long even with FOL at 60. Do you have the FF wires for that part to work? I can see you don't have a BEF as DME BT is way lower than a flashes level should be.

2) Our cars, on stock DME tune, tend to have some interesting DME BT adjustments. One minute everything is happy and the car is ripping, the next it's flat on it's face, then it's back again. It's weird and only happens when you're pushing the stock DME to it's limits... like you are.

3) Meth is activating really early. All your logs show it as being set to activate at 0 PSI. I recommend you set that to at least 8 for now. If this is in error, please post a pick of the settings seen after you connect to the JB4. Terry may have to get involved at that point.

Recommendations:

1) Put Additive down to 30 and lets see how that goes. If we can get your fuel under control, it may even a lot of the DME BT drops out and provide more consistency.

2) If you don't have the FF wires connected, put FF at 0 and leave it there moving forward. If you do have the FF wires, let's lower it to 40 before you do you logging. I've seen our cars do weird things when FF is maxed out like this. (60 is maxing out)

When you've got these two items done and gotten FF learned in after a 3-5 pulls, then post a log starting in 3rd @2k to redline, shifting into 4th to redline ish… no need for 5th. We should be able to see a lot with that data and the suggested changes made. Have fun and be safe...
So I emailed burgermotorsports and kinda explained what has been going on, and they had me change settings with duty bias, meth additive, and meth start psi to 9. With the changes we made the car runs better than it did previously, pulls really hard. My only concern with the logs where them trims where at 49 throughout, but I was told being on meth injection now it’s okay. Ando was the one helping me through email, I will post our logs, thank you stay safe
Attached Files
File Type: csv 50 additive 20200325_1745_runs(1).csv (8.7 KB, 78 views)
File Type: csv 1st 20200326_154528_runs(1).csv (11.3 KB, 74 views)
File Type: csv 2nd 20200326_154723_runs(1).csv (6.6 KB, 80 views)
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JBoe JBoe is offline
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Default 03-29-2020, 01:56 PM

Are you on pure Meth (M1) now? I thought you were on Boost Juice, which is like 50/50 water/meth mix. Please advise.

BMS has a lot of experience on the platform. That being stated, I've never been told that maxing out my trims is okay since I'm on Meth... even when I switched to pure M1. You may see a spike for a few seconds, but never a hit and hold for the period you're seeing. I definitely wouldn't recommend it. Further, you're throttle closure, while it's doing it's job, tells me that there's more tuning to be done. The goal would be to only have that occur when boost overtakes the target. It looks like it's occurring in this instance due to wheelspin, but there's also a timing drop... boost level never recovers though timing does start to increase. Yet, you're boosting considerably below target thereafter.

You're also operating at near 14:1 AFR in this zone. While our cars due run lean, that's too lean IMO. With ADD at 60 (2nd Log on 3/26) you're asking for a target of 22psi. I guarantee that you don't have the fuel to support that without being on M1. It's also my opinion, if you keep these settings, it's a high likelihood that you'll have issues soon that could end up costing you.

This is just my experience and tuning advice. I can honestly state that it sometimes doesn't agree with BMS, but it generally only differs when it comes to levels of safety. That's not to say that BMS is telling you to do anything unsafe... I'm simply stating that I tend to lean even more cautious. After all, they won't be on the hook for $15k if the motor pops. lol!

My logs are posted, as are many others, that are all running successful setups with some longevity behind them. If you compare those logs with yours... you'll see that none are operating in the ranges you are. They are all within safer limits. Further, those that are at the levels you are seeking have the BEF. That provides for better AFRs at those levels to keep things safe.

I've attached my last log (3/21/20) for review... You'll see we share the same wheelspin issues in 3rd. Even though I'm at less ADD my boost is near the levels you're actually seeing due to your throttle closure. However, you'll see my timing and boost recovers. You'll also see my trims and AFR are completely different, in a good way, from yours. Then, there's the closures. They only occur during boost overrun and/or wheelspin. That should be your goal... IMO.

Apologies for the book report... just looking out for you in the best way I can with the knowledge I have. It may not be 100%, but I'm sure it has some good bits in there. lol.
Attached Images
  
Attached Files
File Type: csv RaceWMIFlash-Map7-45Add(3rd-5th).csv (7.8 KB, 80 views)


AFE Drop-in Filter
BMS Meth Kit (100% M1)
Muffler Delete
CA 91 Piss Gas...
(8oz Boostane 95ish Oct)
E85 (2Gal/Fill)
BEF (Race_WMI)
JB4 (Map 7 - Add 45... 19-20psi)
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340iMX 340iMX is offline
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Question 03-29-2020, 06:55 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by JBoe
Are you on pure Meth (M1) now? I thought you were on Boost Juice, which is like 50/50 water/meth mix. Please advise.

BMS has a lot of experience on the platform. That being stated, I've never been told that maxing out my trims is okay since I'm on Meth... even when I switched to pure M1. You may see a spike for a few seconds, but never a hit and hold for the period you're seeing. I definitely wouldn't recommend it. Further, you're throttle closure, while it's doing it's job, tells me that there's more tuning to be done. The goal would be to only have that occur when boost overtakes the target. It looks like it's occurring in this instance due to wheelspin, but there's also a timing drop... boost level never recovers though timing does start to increase. Yet, you're boosting considerably below target thereafter.

You're also operating at near 14:1 AFR in this zone. While our cars due run lean, that's too lean IMO. With ADD at 60 (2nd Log on 3/26) you're asking for a target of 22psi. I guarantee that you don't have the fuel to support that without being on M1. It's also my opinion, if you keep these settings, it's a high likelihood that you'll have issues soon that could end up costing you.

This is just my experience and tuning advice. I can honestly state that it sometimes doesn't agree with BMS, but it generally only differs when it comes to levels of safety. That's not to say that BMS is telling you to do anything unsafe... I'm simply stating that I tend to lean even more cautious. After all, they won't be on the hook for $15k if the motor pops. lol!

My logs are posted, as are many others, that are all running successful setups with some longevity behind them. If you compare those logs with yours... you'll see that none are operating in the ranges you are. They are all within safer limits. Further, those that are at the levels you are seeking have the BEF. That provides for better AFRs at those levels to keep things safe.

I've attached my last log (3/21/20) for review... You'll see we share the same wheelspin issues in 3rd. Even though I'm at less ADD my boost is near the levels you're actually seeing due to your throttle closure. However, you'll see my timing and boost recovers. You'll also see my trims and AFR are completely different, in a good way, from yours. Then, there's the closures. They only occur during boost overrun and/or wheelspin. That should be your goal... IMO.

Apologies for the book report... just looking out for you in the best way I can with the knowledge I have. It may not be 100%, but I'm sure it has some good bits in there. lol.
I completely understand, from the little I understand my trims to be that high for that long in the same gear made me worry. I would rather be on the safer side don't want detonation or anything, plus I'd rather have it done right and be safe. The car feels it runs better than it did prior, as well its a lot faster but the logs do show some issues that make me worry I am still using 50/50 "boost juice". Whats the next step from here? I do have access to e85. For now I will go easy on the car until will get this straightened out, thank you for all the help and I really appreciated you looking out, thank you
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