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iqraceworks iqraceworks is offline
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Question AT starting to slip in 5th.....time for rebuild? - 04-15-2020, 04:54 AM

The ZF 6HP21 6-speed AT in my 07' 335i is starting to slip in 5th gear. It's got around 100K miles on it, and I'm runing a tune with all the standard bolt-ons.

When it's in 5th gear, as soon as the boost comes on when I'm hard on the gas, the RPMS go up....the car doesn't accelerate, and transmission goes into limp mode (locks in 2nd gear), and throws a 4F850 E-clutch fault.

I've changed the fluid/pan, and replaced the 4 sleeve seals and the double D seal. Didn't fix the issue. The fluid didn't smell burnt..and the pan looked pretty clean.

At this point...is there anything left to try before I start thinking about swapping in a new/used transmission?

Is it worth it to replace the shift solenoids? Try resetting the adaptation? Anything else that could be cause the issue....or is it 100% a problems with the e-clutch frictions?


2007 335i, BMS DCI, BMS Chargepipe w/Tial BOV, ARM Down-p1pes, Bilstein B12 Prokit Suspension,G-Plus FMIC, MHD Stage 2+ tune, xHP stage 3 transmission flash.
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dcafs dcafs is offline
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Default 04-15-2020, 06:15 AM

I had the same symptoms a few years back.

Clutch paks were burnt out.

Had the tranny rebuilt (new clutch paks, solenoids and seals) and it's been strong ever since.

If your E clutch is gone then you need to replace it otherwise nothing else will matter.
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Default 04-15-2020, 06:18 AM

That happened to mine as well, did the same replaced solenoids and everything else you mentioned. Ended up replacing transmission.
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Default 04-15-2020, 08:00 AM

For me, the Transmission Pump started dying, then died.
A quote to rebuild vs. a low mileage used one, put me with the used one.
(obviously new fluid, rear main seal and the standard maintenance while in there)

The Transmission itself was only $1100 CAD. Labor and Parts more than tripled it.
If you are OK with changing your own Turbos, you may be interested in installing a used Trans yourself, to save 2/3 of the cost. I expect to next time, if that sad day comes.




2008 335i Convertible, E93, N54, A/T (200,000+ km)
Wheels: 322 | Tires: R.275/35r18, F.245/40r18
TUNE: JB4/Trebila | 24 PSI | 100% Meth via dual CM5 | 94 Octane
BMS: JB4, Map 6 | WMI | 5" FMIC | OCC | DCI | Cowel Filters
RB: Inlets | PCV Valve
VRSF: DiPis | CP
HKS BOV
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NGK-97506 @ .020

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2018 - A/T Replaced | Ign Coils | Walnut Blast
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2020 - OPG | Battery | IBS | Water Pump | Plugs | Alternator
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nyt nyt is offline
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Default 04-15-2020, 08:12 AM

If you can change your turbos, you can rebuild a trans.


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Default 04-15-2020, 10:06 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by nyt
If you can change your turbos, you can rebuild a trans.
Yep....I've rebuilt a few TH-350 transmissions. These ZF transmissions don't look much different except more clutch packs.


2007 335i, BMS DCI, BMS Chargepipe w/Tial BOV, ARM Down-p1pes, Bilstein B12 Prokit Suspension,G-Plus FMIC, MHD Stage 2+ tune, xHP stage 3 transmission flash.
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dcafs dcafs is offline
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Default 04-15-2020, 02:14 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by codesx
For me, the Transmission Pump started dying, then died.
A quote to rebuild vs. a low mileage used one, put me with the used one.
(obviously new fluid, rear main seal and the standard maintenance while in there)

The Transmission itself was only $1100 CAD. Labor and Parts more than tripled it.
If you are OK with changing your own Turbos, you may be interested in installing a used Trans yourself, to save 2/3 of the cost. I expect to next time, if that sad day comes.
Yeah...that's what I experienced too. By the time I bought a used tranny for $1100 then added on $800 labour from the shop to install it I was looking at $2K. And then who knows what condition the used tranny is in.

I had my original rebuilt for $2500 and basically everything is new inside, so it was worth the extra $500 for peace of mind and longevity.

But you have to find a shop that specializes in german transmission.
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rcpro88 rcpro88 is offline
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Default 04-15-2020, 05:35 PM

When I installed new turbos, I noticed after I filled up with e85 and ran map6 I had issues with the car not wanting to shift under WOT. I came across an e46 m3 on the highway who wanted to race, down shifted to 3rd, car pulled hard and then wouldn't want to shift into 4th but I pulled far ahead of the e46 m3 before I needed to shift. Anyways I let off the gas and tried shifting again then it worked. Kept having issues with high load shifting. Finally bit the bullet and bought XHP and well it really works. I had a previous SAT trans flash but the difference with XHP is huge. I run stage 2 for daily and stage 3 when I got to car meets and the track. Car has 195k miles now and has been tuned for the past 120k miles. Driven hard daily. Trans filter and ATF changed a few times already. keep in mind if you drive it like a race car you gotta maintain it like a race car.
PS: I always watch oil/coolant/trans temps. I let my trans warm up before I go banging through gears WOT. I notice the trans does shift smoother when temps are >140F. I have a trans cooler and never see temps above 190F.


DON'T buy VRSF D.Ps or inlets! FBO, E85 Walbro 450, xHP trans flash
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rcpro88 rcpro88 is offline
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Default 04-15-2020, 05:37 PM

Also, if you buy new solenoids now, it can't hurt. If the trans is bad and clutch packs are shot, the solenoids will still be on the list of replacement parts to order for a trans rebuild. If you're rebuilding it, get the upgraded clutch pack kit.


DON'T buy VRSF D.Ps or inlets! FBO, E85 Walbro 450, xHP trans flash
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Default 04-15-2020, 05:53 PM

Does anyone here know someone that can teamviewer load inpa etc onto my laptop and re code my vin to tcu? I lost sport mode after used transmission install. Getting 5087 input one touch error it's not the wires under shifter plate. Paddles work manual mode works DS not working
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Default 04-15-2020, 07:10 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by dcafs
Yeah...that's what I experienced too. By the time I bought a used tranny for $1100 then added on $800 labour from the shop to install it I was looking at $2K. And then who knows what condition the used tranny is in.

I had my original rebuilt for $2500 and basically everything is new inside, so it was worth the extra $500 for peace of mind and longevity.

But you have to find a shop that specializes in german transmission.
Luckily I have a few options here. After talking to a few guys that specialize in ZF transmissions, it sounds like installing the new solenoids "could" fix the problem...... I'm going to try that first.

If that doesn't fix it....I'm going to pull the transmission that's currently in the car, and install the used one I have. Give it a fresh batch of fluid, new seals, and a new pan filter. Hopefully it will work great and I will be on my way.

But.....if it's got issues too.....them I'm going to buy a rebuild kit and put new clutch plates and seals/bushings in the original transmission. Thank God for YouTube....there are a few videos out there showing a step by step process of rebuilding the ZF tranny's. I think it will be a fun project.

Unfortunately there aren't very many aftermarket options as far as "better than OEM" friction plates for these ZF transmissions. I found one company that makes "race" clutches that are supposed s to hold 1000+ hp....but the rebuild kit alone is close to $2,000. There seem to be tons of guys pushing big power through stock transmissions...so I'm going to give that a shop first. I think I can get new ZF parts for $500-ish.

Keeping my fingers crossed that new shift solenoids fix the problem. I will keep updating this thread as time goes on....


2007 335i, BMS DCI, BMS Chargepipe w/Tial BOV, ARM Down-p1pes, Bilstein B12 Prokit Suspension,G-Plus FMIC, MHD Stage 2+ tune, xHP stage 3 transmission flash.
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nyt nyt is offline
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Default 04-15-2020, 10:25 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by iqraceworks
Luckily I have a few options here. After talking to a few guys that specialize in ZF transmissions, it sounds like installing the new solenoids "could" fix the problem...... I'm going to try that first.

If that doesn't fix it....I'm going to pull the transmission that's currently in the car, and install the used one I have. Give it a fresh batch of fluid, new seals, and a new pan filter. Hopefully it will work great and I will be on my way.

But.....if it's got issues too.....them I'm going to buy a rebuild kit and put new clutch plates and seals/bushings in the original transmission. Thank God for YouTube....there are a few videos out there showing a step by step process of rebuilding the ZF tranny's. I think it will be a fun project.

Unfortunately there aren't very many aftermarket options as far as "better than OEM" friction plates for these ZF transmissions. I found one company that makes "race" clutches that are supposed s to hold 1000+ hp....but the rebuild kit alone is close to $2,000. There seem to be tons of guys pushing big power through stock transmissions...so I'm going to give that a shop first. I think I can get new ZF parts for $500-ish.

Keeping my fingers crossed that new shift solenoids fix the problem. I will keep updating this thread as time goes on....
PD/PR makes a good clutch set. They'll hold more torque than your input shaft. Costs about a grand, though. Might as well just pick up their master rebuild kit and a set of solenoids.


2010 335ix - speedtech 6466g2, cams, ported head, built bottom end, 7.5in hd ic, jb4, pi, fuel-it stg3, upgraded 6hp21+cooler, pr coils
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Default 04-16-2020, 04:54 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by nyt
PD/PR makes a good clutch set. They'll hold more torque than your input shaft. Costs about a grand, though. Might as well just pick up their master rebuild kit and a set of solenoids.
Yeah.....that's the kit I was thinking about. With guys putting 600+HP to the stock transmissions and having issues....I'm just not sure if I need to spend $1000 on a clutch kit that will hold 1,000+HP when I'm only putting 400hp to the wheels...and I really don't plan on adding huge amount of power in the future.


2007 335i, BMS DCI, BMS Chargepipe w/Tial BOV, ARM Down-p1pes, Bilstein B12 Prokit Suspension,G-Plus FMIC, MHD Stage 2+ tune, xHP stage 3 transmission flash.
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nyt nyt is offline
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Default 04-16-2020, 10:48 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by iqraceworks
Yeah.....that's the kit I was thinking about. With guys putting 600+HP to the stock transmissions and having issues....I'm just not sure if I need to spend $1000 on a clutch kit that will hold 1,000+HP when I'm only putting 400hp to the wheels...and I really don't plan on adding huge amount of power in the future.
The E clutches are the weak point, but it's often exacerbated by the junky bushes which reduce hydraulic pressure as well as valve body and other seal issues.

These cars can make a lot of torque. If you can swing it for the clutches, it's a nice piece of mind for reliability and better shifting. It will be there should you decide to make more power later. Otherwise, just make sure you have everything else in proper shape.


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Default . - 04-16-2020, 08:41 PM

the best thing to do here is to get a used replacement. you will spend around 500$ or less.


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Default 04-17-2020, 04:55 AM

Well...I put the car up on the lift last night and drained the fluid. Tonight I'm going to drop the pan, and pull the valve body off to get to all of the shift solenoids. Keeping my fingers crossed that it fixes the slipping issues.....at this point, I think it's just wishful thinking.



2007 335i, BMS DCI, BMS Chargepipe w/Tial BOV, ARM Down-p1pes, Bilstein B12 Prokit Suspension,G-Plus FMIC, MHD Stage 2+ tune, xHP stage 3 transmission flash.
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Default 04-21-2020, 02:46 PM

****UPDATE****

Well.....I'm excited to say that the new solenoids have appeared to fix the slipping in 5th gear issue I was having. I did three pulls in 5th gear today from 2,000-5,000rpms....no issues at all. Before it was start slipping as soon as the boose and power came on around 3,000 rpms.

The only real issue I have now is the slightly rough and awkward shifts I'm getting from the new solenoids. Erikkson said that it's going to take a good 100 or so miles before the transmission makes changes to the adaptations and the shifts smooth out.

So at this point....I'm pretty happy!! Hopefully xHP will fix the bug in their newest update so their adaptation reading feature works again. I'm curious as to what my adaptations have changed to after the new solenoids.


2007 335i, BMS DCI, BMS Chargepipe w/Tial BOV, ARM Down-p1pes, Bilstein B12 Prokit Suspension,G-Plus FMIC, MHD Stage 2+ tune, xHP stage 3 transmission flash.
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rcpro88 rcpro88 is offline
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Default 04-24-2020, 06:37 PM

Did INPA show any faults from the transmission?


DON'T buy VRSF D.Ps or inlets! FBO, E85 Walbro 450, xHP trans flash
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Default 04-24-2020, 06:50 PM

I still cant figure out the 5087 one touch input error I am getting and no sport mode? Not the wires, does anyone know someone who can remotely download inpa and code the vin for $$ maybe that's the issue?
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rcpro88 rcpro88 is offline
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Default 04-24-2020, 06:58 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by kipitrl
I still cant figure out the 5087 one touch input error I am getting and no sport mode? Not the wires, does anyone know someone who can remotely download inpa and code the vin for $$ maybe that's the issue?
What do you mean you don't have sport mode? Do you have xhp or are you on stock trans flash?

To code the car remotely, you would still need to have you laptop hooked up to your car with a k+dcan to usb cable, have the car on a battery charger and have JB4 set to map 0.


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Default 04-24-2020, 07:06 PM

Yes I have XHP stage 3 I have the computer the Dcan cable I just need somebody who knows what they're doing to see if they can go in and fix that for me I have D mode I have paddle shifters in M mode that work just fine it's just when I'm in manual mode for about 5 seconds if you're not on the throttle just cruising it goes back to D mode. I had sport mode before I put in a used transmission I've also checked all the cables under the shifter. Using pro tool and XHP to run codes it comes up with code 5087 and it wont clear. I had someone try to do it on a computer I had but it ran out of space and actually got sport mode back until I re flashed XHP and then I lost it again.
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Default 04-27-2020, 06:55 AM

Didn't scan it with INPA....but xHP didn't show any faults. I figure xHP will show the same faults INPA will.


2007 335i, BMS DCI, BMS Chargepipe w/Tial BOV, ARM Down-p1pes, Bilstein B12 Prokit Suspension,G-Plus FMIC, MHD Stage 2+ tune, xHP stage 3 transmission flash.
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RobbieB RobbieB is offline
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Default 05-05-2020, 01:12 PM

Any abnormalities with your adaptation figures on xHp? Do you mind sharing what they are, trying to sort out some issues myself.
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Default 05-06-2020, 07:44 AM

The last time I tried to scan the transmission for adaptation values with xHP....it was still showing me all zeros (it's a bug in the newest version). Haven't tried it again since......not sure if the bug is fixed or not.


2007 335i, BMS DCI, BMS Chargepipe w/Tial BOV, ARM Down-p1pes, Bilstein B12 Prokit Suspension,G-Plus FMIC, MHD Stage 2+ tune, xHP stage 3 transmission flash.
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RobbieB RobbieB is offline
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Default 05-06-2020, 07:51 AM

Pretty sure they sorted that out now. Just ran mine a couple of days ago.
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