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landshark92 landshark92 is offline
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Default Pump BEF with E85 - Need some help - 06-13-2019, 03:39 AM

Just loaded up the "pump" BEF. Running map 5 with E32. For some reason, it's not behaving like I expected. AFR's are in the high 11's in the upper rev range, average ignition went up to above 4 and the boost targets are way down.

The first log is the stock flash, on the same tank of gas just a couple days ago before I did the BEF. The car felt strong. The second log is from tonight, the only thing changed was flashing the BEF. The car feels weak. I double checked and the JB4 is set to 4/2 for BEF mode. Ambient temp was about 60F tonight. It was maybe 55F when I did the stock flash log. Does the log seem normal or is something not right?
Attached Files
File Type: csv 06-09-19 stock flash map 5 E32 run 2.csv (32.0 KB, 46 views)
File Type: csv 06-13-19 pump bef map 5 e32 run 3.csv (10.0 KB, 53 views)


2013 335is N54 / 6MT / JB4 G5 ISO "E85" BEF map 5 / Fuel: E40 / Phoenix Racing charge pipe / Diff lockdown / 70K miles

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Default 06-13-2019, 05:10 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by landshark92
Just loaded up the "pump" BEF. Running map 5 with E32. For some reason, it's not behaving like I expected. AFR's are in the high 11's in the upper rev range, average ignition went up to above 4 and the boost targets are way down.

The first log is the stock flash, on the same tank of gas just a couple days ago before I did the BEF. The car felt strong. The second log is from tonight, the only thing changed was flashing the BEF. The car feels weak. I double checked and the JB4 is set to 4/2 for BEF mode. Ambient temp was about 60F tonight. It was maybe 55F when I did the stock flash log. Does the log seem normal or is something not right?
on the stock u target 17 psi on the flash you target 13 psi, maybe few runs on 3rd gear to WOT will adapt more, also I believe you should lower your FOL from 90 to 40 with the backend flash,

others can chime in with more expertise


09 E92 335i - Hot-Climate Middle East package, M Sports suspension, 19" Rims, 6AT fully built internals, bushings, raybestos clutches and sonnax with xHP stage 3, Differential lockdown, New RB Turbo CHRA, JB4 - Map 3 70 adder with N20 TMAP - MHD BMS Race Flash with Tuned Duty Bais and PID - BMS Oil Cooler Valve - RB PCV - K&N DCI - AFE Air Scoops - 98 Super Fuel - WAGNER FMIC - 3" down's, RB Inlets- BMS charge pipe With Tial BOV - BMS Meth Kit with FSB, 30/70 Water/Meth on CM12 nozzle
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landshark92 landshark92 is offline
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Default 06-13-2019, 06:57 AM

Thanks for taking a look. I made three runs and the boost target and the average ignition were getting progressively worse with each run.

Just to add some more info, I am running the 32_14 firmware and the latest 02/07/19 Map Release pump BEF.


2013 335is N54 / 6MT / JB4 G5 ISO "E85" BEF map 5 / Fuel: E40 / Phoenix Racing charge pipe / Diff lockdown / 70K miles

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Default 06-13-2019, 10:50 AM

The 2nd log doesnt look too bad- boost looks ok etc.

LPFP looks to bet getting a bit tired- hitting 50's up top.

Do you have an upgraded LPFP? We could try the next map, but i'm not positive your LPFP will like it.



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beetle6986 beetle6986 is offline
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Default 06-13-2019, 07:40 PM

I loaded the Pump MHD BEF also and have the same issue. Wednesday the car ran great on jb4 firmware 28_2 as it has for years with around 15 LBs of boost. I upgraded the jb4 firmware on Thursday like you did to the latest and the car ran a lot stronger with about 18 LBs of boost, but my afr was dangerously high as the trims were maxed . So today I added the MHD pump BEF. My afr, fuel pressure, etc look good again (very similar to yours) However, the car feels a lot weaker also like yours. I believe itís the timing. All jb4 tunes before the BEF ran timing close to 10. Now with the BEF my timing is a lot less. Itís mostly from 2-4 below 5500 rpm which is where it used to be at 10 before. I think this is the issue, but I donít know why the timing would be so low.
Attached Files
File Type: csv 2019-06-13 20_54_04_Map-5.csv (25.7 KB, 40 views)

Last edited by beetle6986; 06-13-2019 at 07:59 PM..
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landshark92 landshark92 is offline
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Default 06-13-2019, 09:36 PM

The thing about the timing is I believe the BEF timing is supposed to be lower and that allows higher boost. So the targets are higher by about 2 pounds on the fixed maps 1, 2 and 7. That lower timing should also benefit map 5 as well, making the average ignition value even lower. In the my case, the opposite is happening. The average ignition value is much higher and that is causing the boost target to be much lower.

I think the BEF is supposed to run leaner AFR's safely. This should impose less burden on the stock fuel pump and allow us to run more boost and make more power before running out of fuel. It is the opposite in my case. My AFR's have dipped down into the 11's for the first time. My stock fuel pump is now being taxed at 14 pounds when it used to take about 17 pounds for it to be taxed to the same level.

What I can say that is great about this BEF is that my high FOL code has been eliminated. That is a relief because it was limiting me before. It also makes me not want to give up on this BEF because that is so important.

But I cannot run it the way it is. It seems like my system is almost maxed out at 14 pounds and the car feels slow. Whereas the car was a beast on the stock flash at 18 or 19 pounds on the same ethanol content before.

Is it possible that I flashed the "E85" BEF accidentally? I was super careful about everything, reading Terry's instructions as I proceeded, but I am just grasping at straws right now. The only thing I can think to do next is to reflash it with the "pump" BEF from the older 12/03/18 Map Release and hope that the older version fixes my issues.


2013 335is N54 / 6MT / JB4 G5 ISO "E85" BEF map 5 / Fuel: E40 / Phoenix Racing charge pipe / Diff lockdown / 70K miles

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beetle6986 beetle6986 is offline
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Default 06-14-2019, 07:37 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by landshark92
The thing about the timing is I believe the BEF timing is supposed to be lower and that allows higher boost. So the targets are higher by about 2 pounds on the fixed maps 1, 2 and 7. That lower timing should also benefit map 5 as well, making the average ignition value even lower. In the my case, the opposite is happening. The average ignition value is much higher and that is causing the boost target to be much lower.

I think the BEF is supposed to run leaner AFR's safely. This should impose less burden on the stock fuel pump and allow us to run more boost and make more power before running out of fuel. It is the opposite in my case. My AFR's have dipped down into the 11's for the first time. My stock fuel pump is now being taxed at 14 pounds when it used to take about 17 pounds for it to be taxed to the same level.

What I can say that is great about this BEF is that my high FOL code has been eliminated. That is a relief because it was limiting me before. It also makes me not want to give up on this BEF because that is so important.

But I cannot run it the way it is. It seems like my system is almost maxed out at 14 pounds and the car feels slow. Whereas the car was a beast on the stock flash at 18 or 19 pounds on the same ethanol content before.

Is it possible that I flashed the "E85" BEF accidentally? I was super careful about everything, reading Terry's instructions as I proceeded, but I am just grasping at straws right now. The only thing I can think to do next is to reflash it with the "pump" BEF from the older 12/03/18 Map Release and hope that the older version fixes my issues.
My car was a beast on map 5 with 18 LBs also before I added the BEF. The rear tires would consistently break loose if I floored it in 2nd gear. Now that I added the BEF I don't have to worry about traction at all. My only issue before the BEF was my fuel trims were maxed out at 50. I guess this is because the JB4 by itself only allows 33% more fuel for adjustments? I added the BEF to resolve this issue.

Your afr, low pressure fuel and high pressure fuel in your logs looks fine to me as long as you don't increase your ethanol anymore than you already have. The lowest your high pressure pump went was 11 at the very last second.

Below is the difference I have seen between the maps I ran in the last week.

Old map 5 firmware that was 5 years old
15 LBs with around 10 degrees timing. = pretty quick

map 5 with new JB4 firmware added this week
18 LBs with around 10 degrees timing. = much faster, but too lean

map 5 with new firmware and BEF
15 LBs with around 5 degrees timing. = sluggish

I would expect the car to be slower running about the same boost as originally, but with less timing. I'm thinking about removing the BEF and lowering my ethanol content to no more than E30 and see if that resolves my issues with trimming. The car was much stringer without the BEF. I'm not sure what else to do.

BTW. what is the difference between the PUMP BEF and PUMP_USA BEF?
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landshark92 landshark92 is offline
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Default 06-14-2019, 08:18 PM

It sounds like our cars, situations, problems and symptoms are exactly alike. That gives me some comfort because I am not the only one that has had a problem with the BEF and I am not going crazy. Unfortunately for us, the vast majority out there have been very happy with it and run lots of boost and make lots of power. Not sure what is going on there but I will try to figure it out.

Funny that we both describe our cars as beasts on the stock flash with 18 pounds on ethanol. The first day I tried ethanol, I experienced the same thing as you in second gear. 2nd gear, rolling in a straight line with the clutch engaged, and if I smoothly rolled into WOT, all hell would break loose from the rear end. You couldn't wipe that grin off my face for like an hour. I'm just trying to get back to that

This was my first car that would do that in 1st gear, then it became my first car to do that in second. I wonder if it will be my first car to do it in third lol


2013 335is N54 / 6MT / JB4 G5 ISO "E85" BEF map 5 / Fuel: E40 / Phoenix Racing charge pipe / Diff lockdown / 70K miles

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landshark92 landshark92 is offline
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Default 06-14-2019, 08:46 PM

While my logs look fine at 14 pounds with the BEF, they looked almost the same or better at 17 pounds with the stock flash and the car was a lot faster like that. Better because my average ignition timing pull values were around 1.0, exactly the number you would expect with E32. Now with the BEF, I'm getting average ignition timing pull values of 4 -4.5 with E32. That is more like 93 octane numbers. Even though my logs say my car is fine at 14 pounds, I wouldn't even want to boost it up because it's not running right.

I get some weird shudder at idle now also every once in a while. Feels just like as if an A/C compressor kicks in but much more severe. That only started right after I flashed the BEF.

My plan to get to the bottom of this is to do 3 logs in its current state, then do 3 logs on the older "pump" BEF, then do 3 logs on the older 32_12 firmware all on the same day. If none of that works and gets me back to 18 pounds on map 5, I'm going back to my stock flash.


2013 335is N54 / 6MT / JB4 G5 ISO "E85" BEF map 5 / Fuel: E40 / Phoenix Racing charge pipe / Diff lockdown / 70K miles

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landshark92 landshark92 is offline
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Default 06-14-2019, 09:09 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by beetle6986
My car was a beast on map 5 with 18 LBs also before I added the BEF. The rear tires would consistently break loose if I floored it in 2nd gear. Now that I added the BEF I don't have to worry about traction at all. My only issue before the BEF was my fuel trims were maxed out at 50. I guess this is because the JB4 by itself only allows 33% more fuel for adjustments? I added the BEF to resolve this issue.

Your afr, low pressure fuel and high pressure fuel in your logs looks fine to me as long as you don't increase your ethanol anymore than you already have. The lowest your high pressure pump went was 11 at the very last second.

Below is the difference I have seen between the maps I ran in the last week.

Old map 5 firmware that was 5 years old
15 LBs with around 10 degrees timing. = pretty quick

map 5 with new JB4 firmware added this week
18 LBs with around 10 degrees timing. = much faster, but too lean

map 5 with new firmware and BEF
15 LBs with around 5 degrees timing. = sluggish

I would expect the car to be slower running about the same boost as originally, but with less timing. I'm thinking about removing the BEF and lowering my ethanol content to no more than E30 and see if that resolves my issues with trimming. The car was much stringer without the BEF. I'm not sure what else to do.

BTW. what is the difference between the PUMP BEF and PUMP_USA BEF?
I was going to suggest that maybe your FOL was too low and that is why your trims were so high but I looked at your log and your FOL is 95 which is up there so that is not the problem.

I also saw that your LPFP dropped to 5.1-5.0 at the end of your log and that was only at 5k rpm. The LPFP usually drops down at even higher rpms since the engine needs more fuel up there. If you were to log it out to 7k rpm, I'm not sure you would like your LPFP value.

Not really sure about the "pump usa" BEF. I thought it was due to US emissions or something. You must flash on MHD. I'm on Bavtech so we only get 1 pump BEF to choose from.


2013 335is N54 / 6MT / JB4 G5 ISO "E85" BEF map 5 / Fuel: E40 / Phoenix Racing charge pipe / Diff lockdown / 70K miles

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landshark92 landshark92 is offline
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Default 06-14-2019, 09:17 PM

While I wait to do all those logs and troubleshoot this BEF, I was hoping to get your guy's opinion on this idea.

When I was on the stock flash, I was getting the high FOL code on E32 because the JB4 had bumped it up to it's max autotuning value of 90. At the same time, my trims had dropped down because of the high FOL. They never maxed out anyways at lower FOL values.

What I was going to do was turn off the FOL autotuning (FUD bit 3), and lower the FOL manually in increments of 2 and log after each time until my high FOL code went away, paying close attention to and making sure my AFR, trims, HPFP and LPFP all look good. Then up the ethanol content while the logs look good.

I was hoping to get to E40 and target 18.5 pounds that way, which is the theoretical max of map 5 I believe. Or at least get it running on something higher than E32 without going into limp mode. Do you guys think that is a sound plan? Dave? Anyone?


2013 335is N54 / 6MT / JB4 G5 ISO "E85" BEF map 5 / Fuel: E40 / Phoenix Racing charge pipe / Diff lockdown / 70K miles

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landshark92 landshark92 is offline
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Default 06-14-2019, 10:02 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave @ BMS/Fuel-It!
The 2nd log doesnt look too bad- boost looks ok etc.

LPFP looks to bet getting a bit tired- hitting 50's up top.

Do you have an upgraded LPFP? We could try the next map, but i'm not positive your LPFP will like it.
Sorry Dave, I completely missed your question. I am running the stock pump. I gotta figure out what is going on before moving on to the next map. Besides, map 5 for life! Just kidding, but I do prefer it since the ethanol content is variable and I don't always test it before I pump. Mixing is quite a chore as it is even without getting ethanol all over your brand new shirt


2013 335is N54 / 6MT / JB4 G5 ISO "E85" BEF map 5 / Fuel: E40 / Phoenix Racing charge pipe / Diff lockdown / 70K miles

I'm addicted to meth but E85 gets me by...
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Default 06-15-2019, 11:04 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by landshark92
Sorry Dave, I completely missed your question. I am running the stock pump. I gotta figure out what is going on before moving on to the next map. Besides, map 5 for life! Just kidding, but I do prefer it since the ethanol content is variable and I don't always test it before I pump. Mixing is quite a chore as it is even without getting ethanol all over your brand new shirt
You can go with your idea on the FOL- I know a few guys do that- just need to be very dilligent / watchful.

Your stock LPFP- imo that will solve a lot of your fuel issues & honestly help supply the HPFP better / possibly eliminate needing to mess with FOL manually



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landshark92 landshark92 is offline
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Default 06-15-2019, 08:07 PM

I did 3 logs with the latest pump BEF and latest firmware, and 3 logs with the previous version of the pump BEF and the previous firmware. Got the same results with high average ignition values and low boost. I saw an AFR of 10.6 at one point near redline. I saw my HPFP take a dump and go down to 5 or so near redline but the AFR was still rich. That was worrisome. I am flashing back to stock.
Attached Files
File Type: csv 06-15-19 bef newest run 3.csv (8.8 KB, 30 views)
File Type: csv 06-15-19 bef older run 3.csv (10.2 KB, 29 views)


2013 335is N54 / 6MT / JB4 G5 ISO "E85" BEF map 5 / Fuel: E40 / Phoenix Racing charge pipe / Diff lockdown / 70K miles

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beetle6986 beetle6986 is offline
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Default 06-15-2019, 08:20 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by landshark92
While I wait to do all those logs and troubleshoot this BEF, I was hoping to get your guy's opinion on this idea.

When I was on the stock flash, I was getting the high FOL code on E32 because the JB4 had bumped it up to it's max autotuning value of 90. At the same time, my trims had dropped down because of the high FOL. They never maxed out anyways at lower FOL values.

What I was going to do was turn off the FOL autotuning (FUD bit 3), and lower the FOL manually in increments of 2 and log after each time until my high FOL code went away, paying close attention to and making sure my AFR, trims, HPFP and LPFP all look good. Then up the ethanol content while the logs look good.

I was hoping to get to E40 and target 18.5 pounds that way, which is the theoretical max of map 5 I believe. Or at least get it running on something higher than E32 without going into limp mode. Do you guys think that is a sound plan? Dave? Anyone?
I haven't had to mess with FOL at all. Sorry I can't be much help with that.

I ran the car on pump 93 in map 5 with the new jb4 firmware and it was absolutely horrible. It seemed like forever to run our 3rd gear. I used to run it with pump gas all the time and it was fine before the firmware update.

I also ran map 2 with e35 and the car seems stronger. It targets 17 LBs instead of 15.5ish on map 5 with about the same timing. It is better, but i think still not like the old map 5 on 14LBs with 10 degrees timing. It seems that the old maps years ago made their power with moderate boost and more timing. Now the jb4 with firmware updates seems to run a little more boost but a lot less timing. This also puts more demand on the fuel system. Now my lpfp probably needs an upgrade. The lpfp struggles now with anything near e40 where it never has this issue before. I updated the jb4 after running it for 5 years in an attempt to get a little more power out of it. Now im struggling to get it to perform like it used to.

So here a more questions I have......
Wouldnt map 2 run 17LBs even with pump gas? why would I run map 2 with ethanol. Will it advanced the timing of anything by running ethanol or will it run the same with pump 93?

Why is map 5 only running 15.5 lbs of boost with e40? maybe it would eventually keep adding boost?

I guess I will run map 2 and keep the rpms under 5000 for now until i get a pump. Then I will try the race backend flash or map 7 or both or an ethanol bef with e5o or just install the old jb4 firmware and limit the boost so it doesnt have trimming at its max.

It seems like there are just so many options now and no way to know how they perform compared to each other. It would be nice to see a dyno chart on a car that ran many different BEF tunes with different maps. It was pretty easy before. If I ran ethanol I ran map 5 and that was the best performer. I do appreciate the feedback and help with all of this.
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landshark92 landshark92 is offline
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Default 06-15-2019, 09:13 PM

Well, I can't really answer any of your other questions because I am not sure about them. But I am pretty confident about why our cars are running less boost now. I looked at your log again and saw that you have "ave ign" values of about 4 to 4.5, just like me. I think map 5 looks to those values to assign boost levels. If the timing pulls are very low, like ave ign of 1.0, your car is running great, ignition timing is not retarded, and there is very little knock activity. From this feedback, map 5 raises the boost. If you can maintain 1.0 average ignition timing pulls, I believe map 5 can give you 18.5 pounds targeted.

If your car's ignition curve is bad, like a lot of timing drops and a high average ignition timing pull value of 5 or 6, map 5 will detune you down to 12 or 13 pounds. That is what my car does on our bad 91 octane. That is why I like map 5 a lot and trust in it. If map 5 says my car is only good for 14 pounds right now, and I see that my ave ign value is 4.5, I don't want to force 15 pounds on map 1 or 17 pounds on map 2.

If you read the JB4 FAQ, E32 should be giving us ave ign values of 1 or 2. That was what I was getting on the stock flash and gave me 17 or 18 pounds. Same fuel on the BEF and my ave ign is 4.5 and getting 14 pounds.
I believe that is why your boost targets are lower on the same fuel.

Just an idea. What if the ave ign value was based on the difference between the actual timing you are running and a theoretical stock ignition timing curve? With the pump BEF lowering timing by lets say 2 degrees, the ave ign goes up by 2 degrees. Timing is not getting lowered because of a knock sensor, timing is getting lowered on purpose due to the BEF tuning, and ave ign is artificially being bumped up by the same amount. Terry did mention that he didn't like map 5 on the BEF but did like it on the stock flash.

Just throwing stuff out there.


2013 335is N54 / 6MT / JB4 G5 ISO "E85" BEF map 5 / Fuel: E40 / Phoenix Racing charge pipe / Diff lockdown / 70K miles

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beetle6986 beetle6986 is offline
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Default 06-16-2019, 10:57 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by landshark92
Well, I can't really answer any of your other questions because I am not sure about them. But I am pretty confident about why our cars are running less boost now. I looked at your log again and saw that you have "ave ign" values of about 4 to 4.5, just like me. I think map 5 looks to those values to assign boost levels. If the timing pulls are very low, like ave ign of 1.0, your car is running great, ignition timing is not retarded, and there is very little knock activity. From this feedback, map 5 raises the boost. If you can maintain 1.0 average ignition timing pulls, I believe map 5 can give you 18.5 pounds targeted.

If your car's ignition curve is bad, like a lot of timing drops and a high average ignition timing pull value of 5 or 6, map 5 will detune you down to 12 or 13 pounds. That is what my car does on our bad 91 octane. That is why I like map 5 a lot and trust in it. If map 5 says my car is only good for 14 pounds right now, and I see that my ave ign value is 4.5, I don't want to force 15 pounds on map 1 or 17 pounds on map 2.

If you read the JB4 FAQ, E32 should be giving us ave ign values of 1 or 2. That was what I was getting on the stock flash and gave me 17 or 18 pounds. Same fuel on the BEF and my ave ign is 4.5 and getting 14 pounds.
I believe that is why your boost targets are lower on the same fuel.

Just an idea. What if the ave ign value was based on the difference between the actual timing you are running and a theoretical stock ignition timing curve? With the pump BEF lowering timing by lets say 2 degrees, the ave ign goes up by 2 degrees. Timing is not getting lowered because of a knock sensor, timing is getting lowered on purpose due to the BEF tuning, and ave ign is artificially being bumped up by the same amount. Terry did mention that he didn't like map 5 on the BEF but did like it on the stock flash.

Just throwing stuff out there.
I agree 100% on Terryís comment. Map 5 with the stock flash is the fastest my 335 has ever felt by far. Map 5 with the BEF is the slowest. They are at the opposite ends of the spectrum. I have never noticed any timing drops on my car at all. Although, I only log cylinder 1. I will turn on logging for all cylinders and reset map 5 again and see how it does. I understand most of what youíre saying. However, idk what would cause retarded ignition setting. Unless they intended to run less timing and more boost w the BEF. But then why are our boost levels so low if the car didnít detect any knock. Maybe I didnít give it enough time to learn?

Im wondering how map 5 will do with the stock flash and 93 fuel. That would probably resolve the max trimming issues I had. Either way it appears since upgrading the firmware that I will need a lpfp upgrade to run ethanol.
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landshark92 landshark92 is offline
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Default 06-16-2019, 11:13 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave @ BMS/Fuel-It!
You can go with your idea on the FOL- I know a few guys do that- just need to be very dilligent / watchful.

Your stock LPFP- imo that will solve a lot of your fuel issues & honestly help supply the HPFP better / possibly eliminate needing to mess with FOL manually
Dave, I know it is recommended to run E40 or higher for the "E85" BEF but is it safe to try it out with only E32? I am not looking for more performance, I just want to do it and look at the logs and compare them with all the other flashes that I have run. If they look good, I'll work my way up to E40 and beyond if I am able to. I have baselines from all the other flashes on E32 so I wanted to keep it consistent and see how the E85 BEF logs on my car. Thanks for all the help.


2013 335is N54 / 6MT / JB4 G5 ISO "E85" BEF map 5 / Fuel: E40 / Phoenix Racing charge pipe / Diff lockdown / 70K miles

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Default 06-17-2019, 05:06 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by landshark92
Dave, I know it is recommended to run E40 or higher for the "E85" BEF but is it safe to try it out with only E32? I am not looking for more performance, I just want to do it and look at the logs and compare them with all the other flashes that I have run. If they look good, I'll work my way up to E40 and beyond if I am able to. I have baselines from all the other flashes on E32 so I wanted to keep it consistent and see how the E85 BEF logs on my car. Thanks for all the help.
I mean we canít / wonít stop you.

If you want to see, itís all there for you guys to use at your own discretion



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Default Fuel quality? - 06-20-2019, 01:02 AM

I had the same set up map5 with bef and similar issues with increased avg.ign and I figured that I had some poor quality e85 in my tank I got from a gas station I donít normally go to and I immediately felt a decreased in performance. I recently filled up at my usual e85 station and car is running a lot better. So I guess the quality and percentage of ethanol will affect the performance. map5 is doing what it suppose to do. Iíll be looking into e85 sensor so I can better monitor fuel better.
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Default 06-20-2019, 01:05 AM

Hello Dave,

What’s the best set up to fully upgrade fuel system for e85 on N55 f10?
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Default 06-20-2019, 09:28 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by DVS
Hello Dave,

Whatís the best set up to fully upgrade fuel system for e85 on N55 f10?
I prefer Port Injection + an upgraded LPFP- should be plenty imo- Tried, true & easy to dial in with JB4/the BMS controller : )



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landshark92 landshark92 is offline
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Default 06-22-2019, 09:00 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by beetle6986
I agree 100% on Terryís comment. Map 5 with the stock flash is the fastest my 335 has ever felt by far. Map 5 with the BEF is the slowest. They are at the opposite ends of the spectrum. I have never noticed any timing drops on my car at all. Although, I only log cylinder 1. I will turn on logging for all cylinders and reset map 5 again and see how it does. I understand most of what youíre saying. However, idk what would cause retarded ignition setting. Unless they intended to run less timing and more boost w the BEF. But then why are our boost levels so low if the car didnít detect any knock. Maybe I didnít give it enough time to learn?

Im wondering how map 5 will do with the stock flash and 93 fuel. That would probably resolve the max trimming issues I had. Either way it appears since upgrading the firmware that I will need a lpfp upgrade to run ethanol.
I am not sure that this will help your current setup since you are having fueling issues so keep that in mind.

I tried out the E85 BEF and really like it. It runs some pretty aggressive timing so the car has that punchy feel again. Average ignition is back down to where it was before on the stock flash, around 1 when it's real good and around 2 when it is just okay. I bumped up the ethanol mix to E34 for these runs.

Since I was worried that I didn't have enough ethanol content to run map 2 with the aggressive E85 BEF timing, I put it in map 5 afterwards for daily driving and I'll let the JB4 figure what is best since there was plenty of fuel on the map 2 logs. The car is back to being a beast on map 5 and I don't have the fuel pump codes that were limiting me on the stock flash. In fact, my fueling looks better now than it did before with my LPFP coping better and my trims A LOT lower than before. There is a lot more potential now and roasting the tires in 2nd gear is only a cold night away.

E40 is up next. I'll probably see how much ethanol the car can handle to clean up the timing and make the most power with the available boost. Then I might switch back to the stock flash because my gas mileage is starting to look atrocious on the E85 BEF. I really hope I get more than the 13 mpg that the computer is predicting on this tank. And it isn't gonna get any better as I add more E85.

Interestingly, I know we both like map 5 but reviewing my logs in map 2, it seems like there is less boost taper on the high end in the fixed map when the peak boost is similar. This was apparent in my timing drops on the high end. If I can fix that through more ethanol, it would be nice to go back to the fixed map safely cause I have always hated how my car falls flat on its face on the high end. But it is a monster in the midrange so I guess I can't have it both ways with the stock snails.


Thought you might find this helpful since we faced many of the same problems and I am now back to enjoying every mile.
Attached Files
File Type: csv 06-22-19 e85 bef map 2 e34 run 5.csv (8.0 KB, 34 views)


2013 335is N54 / 6MT / JB4 G5 ISO "E85" BEF map 5 / Fuel: E40 / Phoenix Racing charge pipe / Diff lockdown / 70K miles

I'm addicted to meth but E85 gets me by...
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Default 06-23-2019, 08:13 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by landshark92
I am not sure that this will help your current setup since you are having fueling issues so keep that in mind.

I tried out the E85 BEF and really like it. It runs some pretty aggressive timing so the car has that punchy feel again. Average ignition is back down to where it was before on the stock flash, around 1 when it's real good and around 2 when it is just okay. I bumped up the ethanol mix to E34 for these runs.

Since I was worried that I didn't have enough ethanol content to run map 2 with the aggressive E85 BEF timing, I put it in map 5 afterwards for daily driving and I'll let the JB4 figure what is best since there was plenty of fuel on the map 2 logs. The car is back to being a beast on map 5 and I don't have the fuel pump codes that were limiting me on the stock flash. In fact, my fueling looks better now than it did before with my LPFP coping better and my trims A LOT lower than before. There is a lot more potential now and roasting the tires in 2nd gear is only a cold night away.

E40 is up next. I'll probably see how much ethanol the car can handle to clean up the timing and make the most power with the available boost. Then I might switch back to the stock flash because my gas mileage is starting to look atrocious on the E85 BEF. I really hope I get more than the 13 mpg that the computer is predicting on this tank. And it isn't gonna get any better as I add more E85.

Interestingly, I know we both like map 5 but reviewing my logs in map 2, it seems like there is less boost taper on the high end in the fixed map when the peak boost is similar. This was apparent in my timing drops on the high end. If I can fix that through more ethanol, it would be nice to go back to the fixed map safely cause I have always hated how my car falls flat on its face on the high end. But it is a monster in the midrange so I guess I can't have it both ways with the stock snails.


Thought you might find this helpful since we faced many of the same problems and I am now back to enjoying every mile.
Keep an eye on your lpfp dipping into the 50s

Do you have inlets? A beefy midrange and softer pull up top Is a function. Of the stock small snails, so holding a lot of boost up top is generally difficult for them, hence the taper

If you donít have inlets yet. Thatíll help, but you,l still be a bit limited



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landshark92 landshark92 is offline
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Default 06-23-2019, 07:59 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave @ BMS/Fuel-It!
Keep an eye on your lpfp dipping into the 50s

Do you have inlets? A beefy midrange and softer pull up top Is a function. Of the stock small snails, so holding a lot of boost up top is generally difficult for them, hence the taper

If you donít have inlets yet. Thatíll help, but you,l still be a bit limited
Yes, I do monitor the LPFP closely as I suspect that will be the bottleneck that ultimately stops me from going any further.

I don't have any inlets Dave. All my mods are in my sig so you can see the car is virtually stock with a tune and that is part of what amazes me about the car. Ok, I did leave out the all-important golf tee mod

Since I first got the car, in stock form, everybody I've given a ride to has been surprised at how fast it was, myself included. Even so, by the 2nd or 3rd full throttle run, I was suspecting the power dies up top. When I saw the dyno charts, it confirmed my seat-of-the-pants feeling. Ever since then, I have wanted to run a flat boost curve to redline. My wgdc is not even close to maxxed yet, but I wouldn't mind hearing why that is not a good idea.

But after the tune on ethanol, I have really enjoyed obliterating the rear tires when the boost comes in at 3-3.5k rpm, so I can't really complain. I have always dreamed of putting a 460 in a '69 Mustang and stroking it to feel all that torque. This car is the closest I'll probably get to having a crazy torque monster, and the small stock turbos are probably a big part of that, while still having enough in them to make 500rwhp.

Maybe some day I'll have cars that are faster, but I'm not sure I'll ever have another car quite like this


2013 335is N54 / 6MT / JB4 G5 ISO "E85" BEF map 5 / Fuel: E40 / Phoenix Racing charge pipe / Diff lockdown / 70K miles

I'm addicted to meth but E85 gets me by...
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