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Default 335is JB4, BEF, and MHD 93oct dyno testing - 06-02-2016, 01:53 PM

Hey guys,

Following up on our 91 octane dyno testing, I spent a few hours on the dyno today with 93 octane testing and a new round of results.

As a reminder the test car is a 2012 DCT 335is that is 100% factory stock other than a BMS DCI. Test fuel was a full tank of 91 with a can of NOS Race octane booster mixed in. Which we've found makes for a good simulated 93 octane.

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First up we tested JB4 only (factory INA0S flash loaded) and results are as expected. Map1 with a peak of 13psi is a pretty good fit for the 335is factory flash and an otherwise stock car. While map2 at 14.5psi pushed power up there but introduced some additional timing drops. While its not be quite as smooth it's certainly faster than map1. This is the catch-22 of tuning this platform. If you let the DME run timing close to the knock threshold you often get better real world performance but with uglier logs. At these low 13-15psi boost levels engine reliability has not proven to be a concern over the years but the higher the boost the more carefully you should monitor timing drops. Heavy drops at 17-20psi would be much more of a cause for concern. As far as the JB4 only map2 goes generally speaking on pump gas you'd want to reduce exhaust back pressure which helps smooth out timing. A better intercooler would not hurt either.

Map1:

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Map2:

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Next up we evaluated MHD only for a direct comparison to JB4 only. At MHD's suggestion we ran the "Stage1 + FMIC 93 octane" map. I don't know much about these MHD OTS maps so did not know what to expect. Looked to run around 16psi peak with what looks like a fairly pump gas friendly timing curve. As mentioned previously we run these flash only map tests simply to see where our JB4 maps standl in comparison. We're committed to ensuring our customers have the strongest, smoothest, and all around best maps. Flash only fans: No need for hater comments. Don't worry, your tuner can hand tune you a flash only map to provide the same results we get with the JB4 in the mix. Only without all the cool JB4 features, benefits, and flexibility.

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To perform flash only map testing with a JB4 installed for logging you bypass the white subconnector and select JB4 mode 4/4.
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Finally got back to the good stuff. I reconnected the white subconnector, switched the JB4 over to mode 4/2 (back end flash map), and did some additional runs. Results as expected for 93 octane with map1 at 15psi peak being the safest bet for the car/mods but map2 at 17psi peak providing a little more kick with minimal extra risk.

Map1:
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Map2:
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CarAbuser CarAbuser is offline
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Default 06-02-2016, 03:48 PM

Always good seeing these sorts of tests. Do you know what causes that strange peak in the power at 4.5k rpm in the all the JB4 logs?
My guess would be the surge in boost that always comes after 4k, but the MHD maps don't show any sign on that power peak.

Would it be possible to see the logs in Datazap?
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Default 06-02-2016, 04:09 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by CarAbuser
Do you know what causes that strange peak in the power at 4.5k rpm in the all the JB4 logs?
The flash maps target load instead of boost and they reduce their target slightly in that cross over range. With the JB4 we hold the boost target (and dutycycle) steady there. When holding dutycycle, timing, and AFR steady you see that slight uptick in boost as the VANOS is reducing the intake the cam timing. When time permits I'll probably work on a VANOS BEF change so the transition isn't as strong.

*** Edit I think I found the problem there. On the DCT map I recently cranked up calculated torque a bit and brought down calculated load, and forgot to update the VANOS load referenced table to match. My bad.
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Default 06-02-2016, 05:32 PM

So, MHD suggested that you run the stage 1 + FMIC map even though you have a factory unit on there still?

Also, looks like the flash only dyno run was a much smoother power delivery with less of a drop off at the higher rpms.
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ryanm8 ryanm8 is offline
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Default 06-02-2016, 05:47 PM

Vtec kicks in at 4.5k

Thanks for the comparison. While MHD appears smoother, it really dies up top. Even in map 1 the JB4 is making more power > 5k RPM. Would be interesting to see the average hp/tq for these graphs and not just max.

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Default 06-02-2016, 05:57 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Enfiftyfore
So, MHD suggested that you run the stage 1 + FMIC map even though you have a factory unit on there still?

Also, looks like the flash only dyno run was a much smoother power delivery with less of a drop off at the higher rpms.
Interesting, the results looked quite the opposite to me. That's why we do this sort of testing and share the results for analysis.

Here is the comparison on smoothing 0 and smoothing 5. Generally low frequency swings are boost related and higher frequency swings are knock/timing related.

On the map suggestion:
Quote:
Originally Posted by MHD
Quote:
Originally Posted by Terry @ BMS
No problem! Will test the more aggressive maps next go around. What map do you suggest be tested on 93 octane, DCI only?
Either stg1+fmic 93, or stg2 93.
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Default 06-02-2016, 07:09 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by ryanm8
Vtec kicks in at 4.5k

Thanks for the comparison. While MHD appears smoother, it really dies up top. Even in map 1 the JB4 is making more power > 5k RPM. Would be interesting to see the average hp/tq for this graphs and not just max.
Doesn't dye off anymore than the JB4. JB4 may hold peak hp maybe 200rpm more in some configurations shown and after that if anything the JB4 drop off is more pronounced. For all practical purposes its insignificant. Both should be shifted before 6000rpm.

My main observation is the BEF doesn't really come into play in terms of hp/tq in low boost (map 1) but really comes into play at higher boost (map 2) where it really helps take advantage of boost down low which I guess is why the pump gas BEF exist.
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Default 06-02-2016, 07:29 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by stanlalee
Doesn't dye off anymore than the JB4. JB4 may hold peak hp maybe 200rpm more in some configurations shown and after that if anything the JB4 drop off is more pronounced. For all practical purposes its insignificant. Both should be shifted before 6000rpm.

My main observation is the BEF doesn't really come into play in terms of hp/tq in low boost (map 1) but really comes into play at higher boost (map 2) where it really helps take advantage of boost down low which I guess is why the pump gas BEF exist.
I don't know how you come to that conclusion. The JB4 + BEF in map 2 is making over 400wtq from 2700-4700 RPM, for 1000 RPM longer than the MHD flash. And the difference gets even more pronounced after that. After 5k RPM, even map 1 is making about 20 more hp/tq than the MHD flash and it's a less aggressive map.
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Default 06-02-2016, 08:16 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by ryanm8
I don't know how you come to that conclusion. The JB4 + BEF in map 2 is making over 400wtq from 2700-4700 RPM, for 1000 RPM longer than the MHD flash. And the difference gets even more pronounced after that. After 5k RPM, even map 1 is making about 20 more hp/tq than the MHD flash and it's a less aggressive map.
Do you know what top end drop off is? Tq from 2700-4700 has nothing to do with top end drop off. Neither does 20 more hp/tq after 5k rpm. It could have 100 more hp after 5k rpm (that's called it makes more power) but the CURVE clearly shows that from 5000-7000rpm (the top end) is no more tapered with the MHD tune, in fact a little less in most instances. For example JB4 map 1 drops off about 20hp from 5500rpm to 6500rpm. The MHD drops off about half that from 5500rpm to 6500rpm. That be top end drop off.

Mute point anyway. Stock turbos + stock inlets = low/midrange motor not a revver.
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Default 06-02-2016, 09:18 PM

I don't know why anyone would care more about the taper at 6500 rpm than the fact the entire curve is higher after 5k, but to each his own.
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Default 06-03-2016, 10:17 AM

So what would you expect to see with a back end flash and the JB4 on map 5?
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Default 06-03-2016, 11:33 AM

I didn't get a chance to do any map5 testing but will next go around. Up next is E40 testing.


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HairyWelshSteve HairyWelshSteve is offline
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Default 06-03-2016, 12:19 PM

Looks good to me! To me this shows that both MHD and JB4 BEF provide safe off the shelf options with good gains on pump gas. I came to the platform before MHD so naturally I run JB4 BEF but use MHD as my flashing platform. I see nothing here that would make me change that. Thanks Terry and Martial for enabling this transparency for the community.


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Default 06-03-2016, 01:08 PM

Would it be ok to run map2 with fmic and k&n panel filter stock *** on 93 or e20 if the timing has no drop outs

Last edited by Jsr1256; 06-03-2016 at 01:08 PM.. Reason: Added info
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Default 06-03-2016, 02:07 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by HairyWelshSteve
Looks good to me! To me this shows that both MHD and JB4 BEF provide safe off the shelf options with good gains on pump gas. I came to the platform before MHD so naturally I run JB4 BEF but use MHD as my flashing platform. I see nothing here that would make me change that. Thanks Terry and Martial for enabling this transparency for the community.
Agreed! It's actually kind of refreshing to see maps on the conservative side. Much better for the average enthusiast who just wants to upload a map and let-er-rip.
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Default 06-03-2016, 04:30 PM

I was really pleased to see how well the JB4 map1 did. It's basically been that same map since the JB4 was released in 2009. Still holding its own.


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Default 06-03-2016, 04:48 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Terry @ BMS
I was really pleased to see how well the JB4 map1 did. It's basically been that same map since the JB4 was released in 2009. Still holding its own.


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Default 06-03-2016, 09:46 PM

Awesome T!

You got your DCT back!! Any chance on getting that DCT temp sorted now? :D
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Default 06-06-2016, 10:21 PM

Terry I'd love to see some runs on map five with this setup. A lot of local cars run map 5 daily with intakes.


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Default 06-08-2016, 09:23 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by kennejp
Terry I'd love to see some runs on map five with this setup. A lot of local cars run map 5 daily with intakes.
Map5 is not really intended for dyno use but will see what we can do next go around.


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Default 09-15-2019, 09:34 AM

Hey sorry to bring up an old thread. Buddy has a 2012 335is. Found out timing was maxing out and lpfp was dying up top. Swapped in a stage 2 pump. Just loaded the JB4 INA0S pump flash. And set jb4 to map 2. Will this fix the issues? Or does he need a different bef? He is running 93 and has a dct.


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Default 09-16-2019, 11:43 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Maniac0908
Hey sorry to bring up an old thread. Buddy has a 2012 335is. Found out timing was maxing out and lpfp was dying up top. Swapped in a stage 2 pump. Just loaded the JB4 INA0S pump flash. And set jb4 to map 2. Will this fix the issues? Or does he need a different bef? He is running 93 and has a dct.
Should be fine. Post up the logs in the support section so we can evaluate it.


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Default 09-21-2019, 03:53 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Payam @ BMS
Should be fine. Post up the logs in the support section so we can evaluate it.
Should be? Which one should I have used?


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Default 09-23-2019, 11:20 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Maniac0908
Should be? Which one should I have used?
The flash file is fine, did you post the log?


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Default 09-23-2019, 12:02 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Payam @ BMS
The flash file is fine, did you post the log?
2012 335is DCT - N54Tech.com - International Turbo Racing Discussion


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