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IK6SPEED IK6SPEED is offline
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Default 03-14-2019, 09:27 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by T_H_O_M_A_S
i paid only 200 usd for 2nd hand one
And decreased your bhp....

I’d stay with a N55 stock HPFP, have about 100bhp more and $200+ in my pocket to go towards an XDI or PI that actually gave more bhp instead of less.

Quote:
Originally Posted by KevinC39
I've got a question, if you've already got 102 octane available at the pump, isn't that enough? Why bother mixing in the E85 at all or am I missing something?
He’s in EU so that’s basically equivalent to 93 USA.
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Last edited by IK6SPEED; 03-14-2019 at 09:32 AM..
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KevinC39 KevinC39 is offline
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Default 03-14-2019, 09:29 AM

Ahh ok, that makes more sense.


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DB90 DB90 is offline
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Default 03-14-2019, 09:51 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by KevinC39
Ahh ok, that makes more sense.
Our 98 Ron is 93 aki. We used to get bp 102 ron which was 97 aki, I presume the aral 102 they get in Germany is of a similar aki rating considering its owned by BP now.

From the mhd and bm3 ots logs the US 93 fuel seems pretty weak in comparison to our 98/99 ron. Far more timing corrections, however at least you guys get the luxury of e85 at the pump!


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IK6SPEED IK6SPEED is offline
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Default 03-14-2019, 11:03 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by KevinC39
Ahh ok, that makes more sense.
Quote:
Originally Posted by T_H_O_M_A_S
Ive changed the oem N55 hpfp (hdp5) with a B58 model (hdp5evo) , ive used the same map only a different hpfp , check the rail pressure differences , i'm on 93oct pumpgas for now .

for some reason i cant post the datazap links :s
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T_H_O_M_A_S T_H_O_M_A_S is offline
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Default 03-14-2019, 11:09 AM

Jozo made good results with his M2 on E40 and stock turbo ( maxed out ) , my ps2 n55 didn't fair that well on E20 , in the future i will go with xdi aswell .
This was a good test for me , never changed such an item on my car before .

xdi should do 23 psi on E20 or E30 without any probs . i only need to figure out how their fuel supply line is attached compared to the oem one . what part needs to be taken out and replaced by their kit supplied hose


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IK6SPEED IK6SPEED is offline
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Default 03-14-2019, 02:54 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by T_H_O_M_A_S
Jozo made good results with his M2 on E40 and stock turbo ( maxed out ) , my ps2 n55 didn't fair that well on E20 , in the future i will go with xdi aswell .
This was a good test for me , never changed such an item on my car before .

xdi should do 23 psi on E20 or E30 without any probs . i only need to figure out how their fuel supply line is attached compared to the oem one . what part needs to be taken out and replaced by their kit supplied hose
XDI-35 keeps the 2600-2900 range and a constant 20+ PSI is no issue. Even that isn’t enough for pure E85 so why a poster stated that the B58 HPFP retrofit could run pure E85, then you know people are on crack thinking the impossible.

XDI-60 likes the same range but can be pushed up to 3500, which the E8x, E9x, F2x, F3x and F8x stock injectors do not particularly care for but can easily run pure E85.

Now if you want to transplant a different car model part that actually works, you replace your stock injectors on the above models with the F10 M5 injectors and use the XDI-60. But then again, you accused me of never being experimenting with different model parts

To be clear so no one else wastes any money, replacement injectors will not help you with a BMW HPFP.

PI is also a cheaper alternative as noted previously.

Last edited by IK6SPEED; 03-14-2019 at 06:34 PM..
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Chrism135i Chrism135i is offline
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Default 03-18-2019, 12:05 AM

IF my understanding is correct, there is no retrofit solution that is any where near the capabilities of the xdi35 pump? the evo pump does NOT perform better then the n55 pump.

what I dont understand is a company called turbotek racing used the bootmod3 b58 beta and did a full e85 map. how would this b58 be making 462whp with the stock fueling system? I thought this pump was crashing on e20 already?


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DB90 DB90 is offline
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Default 03-18-2019, 12:44 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chrism135i
IF my understanding is correct, there is no retrofit solution that is any where near the capabilities of the xdi35 pump? the evo pump does NOT perform better then the n55 pump.

what I dont understand is a company called turbotek racing used the bootmod3 b58 beta and did a full e85 map. how would this b58 be making 462whp with the stock fueling system? I thought this pump was crashing on e20 already?
The tuning is different for one, afr is leaner on the b58 e85 map compared to the 93 ps2 n55 map. Another bm3 tuner is testing full e85 on their b58 test mule.

The stock turbo M2 results in this thread show the evo pump flows more than the n55 hpfp. E40 and 18/19psi is not possible with the n55 hpfp especially combined with the rich oem afr of the m2. When I had a jb4 on my m2 I could barely run 15 psi flat on 94 octane without fuel pressure being low.


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listed5 listed5 is offline
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Default 04-01-2019, 03:32 AM

So was the verdict that this B58 unit isn't even as good as a factory n55 pump? My original 2013 hpfp is crashing HARD, PI can't even make up the difference. Need to replace it asap.
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Default 04-01-2019, 09:49 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by listed5
So was the verdict that this B58 unit isn't even as good as a factory n55 pump? My original 2013 hpfp is crashing HARD, PI can't even make up the difference. Need to replace it asap.
I spoke to Ken (Wedge Performance) in person about this and he said it is better than the stock pump but not by a lot. If you can find one cheap like the OP did and are replacing your HPFP for any reason then this swap makes sense.


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bNks334 bNks334 is offline
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Default 04-02-2019, 07:00 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by DB90
These pictures are brilliant at illustrating the pumps differences.

N55 hpfp can’t recover after a post shift boost spike and is well below target throughout the whole gear.

B58 hpfp recovers instantly after post shift dip and maintains target rail pressure throughout.

Good job
Right. How clueless is this guy arguing. The B58 pump is maintaining 2000psi+ and if that is target then that means there is even more headroom left in the pump. The dip he keeps pointing out is from shifting lmao I do not see rail pressure tanking under boost at all like it is on the stock pump. The B58 pump is massively outperforming the N55 pump which is dipping hard down to 8xxpsi during the pull and not recovering until late in the rpm range.

1800psi is the bare minimum anyone should be willing to let their rail pressure go. Ripping a car around with 800psi is foolish to say the least. Direct injection relies on high rail pressure for proper fuel atomization. There is a reason why BMW is running 4500psi+ on the B58. You get a better burn and make more power.

Last edited by bNks334; 04-02-2019 at 07:06 AM..
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IK6SPEED IK6SPEED is offline
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Default 04-02-2019, 08:24 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by bNks334
Right. How clueless is this guy arguing. The B58 pump is maintaining 2000psi+ and if that is target then that means there is even more headroom left in the pump. The dip he keeps pointing out is from shifting lmao I do not see rail pressure tanking under boost at all like it is on the stock pump. The B58 pump is massively outperforming the N55 pump which is dipping hard down to 8xxpsi during the pull and not recovering until late in the rpm range.

1800psi is the bare minimum anyone should be willing to let their rail pressure go. Ripping a car around with 800psi is foolish to say the least. Direct injection relies on high rail pressure for proper fuel atomization. There is a reason why BMW is running 4500psi+ on the B58. You get a better burn and make more power.

Talk about clueless.

If you want less power, as demonstrated by the data, go for it.

Even OP and Wedge came to same conclusion. This was not the miracle upgrade that everyone thought, which was my point from beginning.
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bNks334 bNks334 is offline
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Default 04-02-2019, 10:34 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by IK6SPEED
Talk about clueless.

If you want less power, as demonstrated by the data, go for it.

Even OP and Wedge came to same conclusion. This was not the miracle upgrade that everyone thought, which was my point from beginning.
Where did people draw these conclusions? I must have missed this because last I saw Wedge said the gains were small.

I went back and looked through his logs and it's honestly hard to tell anything. Looking at two 5th gear pulls (I am assuming both of these pulls were on pump gas):

https://***********/u/thomas/log-155...-20-21&mark=57
https://***********/u/thomas/log-154...-19-20&mark=96

It looks like both pumps crash hard. It's the pictures that were being used to compare things that made 0 sense.

Not sure why OP is continuing to beat on his car with such low rail pressure in 5th+ gear. I'd put money on it the car is missing. There is no way it's not if it's truly dipping that low in the mid-range like that.

I don't see the power loss at all though. Not sure how you are coming to that conclusion. Again, it goes back to the pictures being used being misleading. There is no power loss. The tune from December 18' on the N55 pump is pretty much the same as the tune from the March 19' logs using the B58 pump.

I do understand your main point that the B58 pump doesn't seem to be doing any better (which is odd because it IS a higher flowing pump). The issue is the pictures you were using to base that statement off were all wrong lol. Comparing different gears and different regions of the map and then comparing single gear pulls to multi-gear pulls. It was just terrible comparisons.

Can a late model N55 really not even make 18psi on a PS2 using 102ron??? seems like OP should't be having this much issue with rail pressure in the first place.

Last edited by bNks334; 04-02-2019 at 10:46 AM..
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IK6SPEED IK6SPEED is offline
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Default 04-02-2019, 10:50 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by bNks334
Where did people draw these conclusions? I must have missed this because last I saw Wedge said the gains were small.

I went back and looked through his logs and it's honestly hard to tell anything. Looking at two 5th gear pulls (I am assuming both of these pulls were on pump gas):

https://***********/u/thomas/log-155...-20-21&mark=57
https://***********/u/thomas/log-154...-19-20&mark=96

It looks like both pumps crash hard. It's the pictures that were being used to compare things that made 0 sense.

Not sure why OP is continuing to beat on his car with such low rail pressure in 5th+ gear. I'd put money on it the car is missing. There is no way it's not if it's truly dipping that low in the mid-range like that.

I don't see the power loss at all though. Not sure how you are coming to that conclusion. Again, it goes back to the pictures being used being misleading. There is no power loss. The tune from December 18' on the N55 pump is pretty much the same as the tune from the March 19' logs using the B58 pump.

I do understand your main point that the B58 pump doesn't seem to be doing any better (which is odd because it IS a higher flowing pump). The issue is the pictures you were using to base that statement off were all wrong lol. Comparing different gears and different regions of the map and then comparing single gear pulls to multi-gear pulls. It was just terrible comparisons.

Can a late model N55 really not even make 18psi on a PS2 using 102ron??? seems like OP should't be having this much issue with rail pressure in the first place.
Clearly you know nothing about what maf g/s is relative to.

Peak maf g/s is shown in these pics, as they were nearly a month ago.

You can also examine from the very first datalogs on page 1.
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Last edited by IK6SPEED; 04-02-2019 at 10:57 AM..
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bNks334 bNks334 is offline
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Default 04-02-2019, 11:22 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by IK6SPEED
Clearly you know nothing about what maf g/s is relative to.

Peak maf g/s is shown in these pics, as they were nearly a month ago.

You can also examine from the very first datalogs on page 1.
You're comparing two tunes there, no?

Please explain for us all how a HPFP could magically change MAF. Look at the two straight 5th gear logs I linked to they are almost identical with very small tweaks between the two.

The comparison you are making is a multi-gear pull where WGDC is at 57% for 17.xpsi compared to another log where WGDC is at 67% for 18.x psi. How again does the HPFP have anything to do with that?

Lets not go back-and-fourth over nonsense. The comparisons being made made no sense but your point does still stand that the B58 pump doesn't appear to be doing much better.

Last edited by bNks334; 04-02-2019 at 11:34 AM..
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IK6SPEED IK6SPEED is offline
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Default 04-02-2019, 11:25 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by bNks334
You're comparing two different gears there, no?

Please explain for us all how a HPFP could magically change MAF. Look at the two straight 5th gear logs I linked to they are almost identical with very small tweaks between the two.
I used the highest maf g/s from each dataset, regardless of gear.

As stated about 4 pages back, the Original Dataset has the N55 pump delivering 14bhp over the B58 Pump.

This “tune” is far worse.

Last edited by IK6SPEED; 04-02-2019 at 11:30 AM..
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bNks334 bNks334 is offline
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Default 04-02-2019, 11:56 AM

OK and seeing as how neither the stock pump nor the B58 pump had any issues with rail pressure at that rpm (6,800) it's a completely moot point.

Both pumps (and tunes) are dipping hard in the mid-range when heavily loaded in higher gears.

Further, you're comparing MAF at two completely different RPM set points. Look at logs that are taken out to 7,000rpm and you'll see he is still over 400 g/s.

Could the B58 pump require more voltage to see its actual max output? Weren't there HPFP power tables found on the F-series N55 that just recently carried over to the E-series?? Did OP ever look into that? And, is he now on the XDi pump which has custom settings in MHD to increase voltage for it? Maybe this was already covered and I missed it. I do see other people asked this too but I don't see if it was addressed.

Last edited by bNks334; 04-02-2019 at 12:10 PM..
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IK6SPEED IK6SPEED is offline
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Default 04-02-2019, 12:07 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by bNks334
OK and seeing as how neither the stock pump nor the B58 pump had any issues with rail pressure at that rpm it's a completely moot point.

Both pumps (and tunes) are dipping hard in the mid-range when heavily loaded in higher gears.

Further, you're comparing MAF at two completely different RPM set points. Look at logs that are taken out to 7,000rpm and you'll see he is still over 400 g/s.
Iím not picking and choosing logs for desired results.

Iím used the latest logs from his post #148 for the B58 and the last N55 log he posted as reference.
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bNks334 bNks334 is offline
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Default 04-02-2019, 12:12 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by IK6SPEED
Iím not picking and choosing logs for desired results.

Iím used the latest logs from his post #148 for the B58 and the last N55 log he posted as reference.
Did OP get an xdi pump? His latest logs look really good but i see the file name says xdi in it now.
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bogtan bogtan is offline
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Default 04-02-2019, 09:33 PM

So I have an M2 running BM3 E30 tune, I just noticed on colder days its starting to break up over 6k rpm in the higher gears so I bought a B58 pump.

Before I install it I will do some logs for before an after.
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DB90 DB90 is offline
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Default 04-05-2019, 01:56 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by bogtan
So I have an M2 running BM3 E30 tune, I just noticed on colder days its starting to break up over 6k rpm in the higher gears so I bought a B58 pump.

Before I install it I will do some logs for before an after.
Nice keep us posted 👍🏻.

I plan to do the same with the b58 pump and bm3 e30 ots, just need to find the time.

We know on the oem flash and jb4 we can run e40, 18/19psi with a rich afr. With the leaner afr on the e30 ots who knows what ethanol blend it will cope with.


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IK6SPEED IK6SPEED is offline
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Default 04-20-2019, 09:21 PM

Simple Explanation as to why the B58 HPFP mania is overblown.

BMW 3-Series and 4-Series Forum (F30 / F32) | F30POST - View Single Post - HPFP New Option

Even OP here agreed.
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bogtan bogtan is offline
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Default 04-21-2019, 06:33 AM

Logs for current n55 pump.
M2 Running catles down pipe/fmic bm3 e30 tune (e25 mix)
bootmod3 - 5cb7f589c090c64bbcdbb003 datalog chart
I haven't been able to get it to crash yet. Will try on a cooler day.

Last edited by bogtan; 04-21-2019 at 02:09 PM..
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T_H_O_M_A_S T_H_O_M_A_S is offline
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Default 04-23-2019, 01:08 AM

for stock turbo's its a decent upgrade , for upgraded ones its still not enough to max them out ( you'll need an xdi ) . results speak for themselves


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Default 04-23-2019, 08:56 AM

Is there a difference (pump) between pwg to ewg
some connector?


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