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JETmn JETmn is offline
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Default Fuel-It TB/port injection - 01-20-2015, 11:18 AM

Alright after hearing a few rumors the last week and Steve letting the can out of the bag in the other thread, I need more details! I am N55 and would love to run 100% E85. What is the scoop on your upcoming system, Steve?
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Default 01-20-2015, 11:23 AM

+1


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jyamona jyamona is offline
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Default 01-20-2015, 11:59 AM

Generally, TB injection cannot guarantee even distribution of fuel per cylinder. Curious to hear how this plans to be addressed.
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Default 01-20-2015, 12:35 PM

Jet you just need 4 weeks patience


F21 M140i - 100-200: 5.18 60-130: 5.96
Audi TTRS - 100-200: 4.01 60-130: 4.5
F80 M3 - 100-200: 4.32, 60-130: 4.8
F20 M135i (sold) - 100-200: 6.26 , 60-130: 7.4
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JETmn JETmn is offline
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Default 01-20-2015, 01:07 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by darkiedm4
Jet you just need 4 weeks patience
Do you have any idea what you are asking?!?
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Peter @ Pure's Avatar
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Default 01-20-2015, 02:29 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by JETmn
Do you have any idea what you are asking?!?
Yes i am suffering as much as you


F21 M140i - 100-200: 5.18 60-130: 5.96
Audi TTRS - 100-200: 4.01 60-130: 4.5
F80 M3 - 100-200: 4.32, 60-130: 4.8
F20 M135i (sold) - 100-200: 6.26 , 60-130: 7.4
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Default 01-20-2015, 02:32 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by jyamona
Generally, TB injection cannot guarantee even distribution of fuel per cylinder. Curious to hear how this plans to be addressed.
X2
not a good idea for big power levels


Daily: G30 M550i JB4
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Steve @ BMS/Fuel-It! Steve @ BMS/Fuel-It! is offline
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Default 01-20-2015, 03:55 PM

Hahaha...you can't write "C A T" and that was Terry that let it out of the bag, not us.

First of all we know we're going to get skeptics and that's fine, you should be.

However, we have not approached this in the typical fashion you might be thinking. Simply spraying fuel in to the throttle body will pose issues for a few reasons. We are not doing that and we have done quite a bit of research, analysis, design work, working with manufacturers, and testing to provide even distribution and achieve the results we have. This is definitely not..."hey, lets hook up an injector to our throttlebody and see what happens," we are well beyond that and this is to our knowledge a fresh approach both in terms of implementation, design, and the "technology" we are using.

This has been running on a couple cars for a while now. On our development car we started running a preliminary version of it almost a year ago and the current version a few months ago. It was also more recently put on another car for testing after they installed VTT Stage 2+ turbos and as anticipated were having fueling issues. There is a review and some talk about the "prototype" on this site (and others) and how it solved that issue.

We haven't been talking about it much because we wanted more data prior to ordering parts for our first production run. Those parts have been ordered, but this kind of forced our hand a little. We also didn't want to just dangle a carrot out there and then have people waiting 6 months to a year. As it is there is still going to be a little bit of a wait.

A few basics on this option:

1. We are not targeting big HP cars with this product. You have port injection and an HPFP upgrade for that. We are focused on providing options not currently available. This option is to give the guy that has stock frame turbos a cost effective and relatively easy solution to install.

2. We do not believe injecting 2000cc's or even 1000cc's for that fact is something we will ever target with this solution and it was never our goal. Our Stage 1 is much less than that.

3. Our primary goal with this design and option is the ease of implementation and staying within the limitations of the DME to keep things safe and allow it to do its thing. This also keeps things much easier from an implementation stand point.

4. This is a direct bolt on accessory, no additional tanks, pumps, or permanent modifications. All things considered, it's a pretty simple and clean installation.

Please bare with us as we know there are a lot of people that are anxious. We don't blame you, but we want to do everything right and have the testing completed on a few vehicles prior to doing a full release.

Thanks,
Steve

One last request...please don't blow up our email asking for additional information on this. It takes a lot of time to reply to each of you individually when this thread reaches many more of you at once. So we'll put those updates here.

Thanks again.



Click on our banner to visit our website!
Video of our Stage 2 LPFP upgrade installation.

BMS products labeled for use only in competition racing vehicles may only be used on competition racing vehicles operated exclusively on a closed course in conjunction with a sanctioned racing event, in accordance with all federal and state laws, and may never be operated on public roads/highways.

Last edited by Steve @ BMS/Fuel-It!; 01-20-2015 at 04:01 PM..
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Default 01-20-2015, 04:38 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by SteveAZ
Hahaha...you can't write "C A T" and that was Terry that let it out of the bag, not us.

First of all we know we're going to get skeptics and that's fine, you should be.

However, we have not approached this in the typical fashion you might be thinking. Simply spraying fuel in to the throttle body will pose issues for a few reasons. We are not doing that and we have done quite a bit of research, analysis, design work, working with manufacturers, and testing to provide even distribution and achieve the results we have. This is definitely not..."hey, lets hook up an injector to our throttlebody and see what happens," we are well beyond that and this is to our knowledge a fresh approach both in terms of implementation, design, and the "technology" we are using.

This has been running on a couple cars for a while now. On our development car we started running a preliminary version of it almost a year ago and the current version a few months ago. It was also more recently put on another car for testing after they installed VTT Stage 2+ turbos and as anticipated were having fueling issues. There is a review and some talk about the "prototype" on this site (and others) and how it solved that issue.

We haven't been talking about it much because we wanted more data prior to ordering parts for our first production run. Those parts have been ordered, but this kind of forced our hand a little. We also didn't want to just dangle a carrot out there and then have people waiting 6 months to a year. As it is there is still going to be a little bit of a wait.

A few basics on this option:

1. We are not targeting big HP cars with this product. You have port injection and an HPFP upgrade for that. We are focused on providing options not currently available. This option is to give the guy that has stock frame turbos a cost effective and relatively easy solution to install.

2. We do not believe injecting 2000cc's or even 1000cc's for that fact is something we will ever target with this solution and it was never our goal. Our Stage 1 is much less than that.

3. Our primary goal with this design and option is the ease of implementation and staying within the limitations of the DME to keep things safe and allow it to do its thing. This also keeps things much easier from an implementation stand point.

4. This is a direct bolt on accessory, no additional tanks, pumps, or permanent modifications. All things considered, it's a pretty simple and clean installation.

Please bare with us as we know there are a lot of people that are anxious. We don't blame you, but we want to do everything right and have the testing completed on a few vehicles prior to doing a full release.

Thanks,
Steve

One last request...please don't blow up our email asking for additional information on this. It takes a lot of time to reply to each of you individually when this thread reaches many more of you at once. So we'll put those updates here.

Thanks again.
+1


2008 e93 MODS: BMS JB4 G5 ISO, bms trunk, RB PVC, Lukeperformance flash, mount meth kit, OCC, ******* ********, VRSF 7" FMIC, charge pipe, DCI, Alpina flash,
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jyamona jyamona is offline
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Default 01-20-2015, 05:15 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by SteveAZ
Hahaha...you can't write "C A T" and that was Terry that let it out of the bag, not us.

First of all we know we're going to get skeptics and that's fine, you should be.

However, we have not approached this in the typical fashion you might be thinking. Simply spraying fuel in to the throttle body will pose issues for a few reasons. We are not doing that and we have done quite a bit of research, analysis, design work, working with manufacturers, and testing to provide even distribution and achieve the results we have. This is definitely not..."hey, lets hook up an injector to our throttlebody and see what happens," we are well beyond that and this is to our knowledge a fresh approach both in terms of implementation, design, and the "technology" we are using... (continued)
I knew you wouldn't half-ass it, that's why I said I was curious to see how you addressed the inherent issue of the typical / common TB injection

Can't wait to see more details.
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boost junkie boost junkie is offline
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Default 01-20-2015, 05:53 PM

What are you using for a controller?
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Default 01-20-2015, 08:25 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by jyamona
I knew you wouldn't half-ass it, that's why I said I was curious to see how you addressed the inherent issue of the typical / common TB injection

Can't wait to see more details.
Thank you

Quote:
Originally Posted by boost junkie
What are you using for a controller?
You can use the JB4 or a boost switch. Terry has been very accommodating and re-enabled that option in the Jb4 software and it gives the user infinite adjustability.



Click on our banner to visit our website!
Video of our Stage 2 LPFP upgrade installation.

BMS products labeled for use only in competition racing vehicles may only be used on competition racing vehicles operated exclusively on a closed course in conjunction with a sanctioned racing event, in accordance with all federal and state laws, and may never be operated on public roads/highways.
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jyamona jyamona is offline
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Default 01-21-2015, 07:24 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by SteveAZ
Thank you



You can use the JB4 or a boost switch. Terry has been very accommodating and re-enabled that option in the Jb4 software and it gives the user infinite adjustability.
You mean through the old nitrous settings in the JB4? or using the meth settings for this?
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Default 01-21-2015, 07:54 AM

SteveAZ...you're the man. Can't wait, this is what I've been waiting for.


2011 135i - N55 - JB4 ISO - FBO + Meth + Corn
VTT JB Stage 2 with VTT Forge DV and VTT N55 Waste Gate Upgrade

Pump Gas
60' ... 1.850
1/8 MPH ... 98.06
1/4 ... 11.735
Trap ... 122.71
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Peter @ Pure's Avatar
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Default 01-21-2015, 07:55 AM

How does this compare to meth injection? Like what's the difference between this and meth injection? (besides running from the fuel tank and no extra tank/pump required)
Does it allow higher volume? More even distribution amongst the 6 cilinders?


F21 M140i - 100-200: 5.18 60-130: 5.96
Audi TTRS - 100-200: 4.01 60-130: 4.5
F80 M3 - 100-200: 4.32, 60-130: 4.8
F20 M135i (sold) - 100-200: 6.26 , 60-130: 7.4
peter@pureturbos.eu
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Default 01-21-2015, 08:30 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by jyamona
You mean through the old nitrous settings in the JB4? or using the meth settings for this?
Yes and yes


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Default 01-21-2015, 11:34 AM

so much progression on the fueling front this year, making me reconsider an M3.


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durty sexn55 durty sexn55 is offline
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Default 01-21-2015, 12:00 PM

So much love n55 !!!!
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boost junkie boost junkie is offline
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Default 01-21-2015, 12:17 PM

So the injector will not be pulsed, just on/off as needed? Does the DME do the actual fine tuning of the AFR in that case?
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JETmn JETmn is offline
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Default 01-21-2015, 03:01 PM

Thanks a ton Steve, that is what we needed! Most of us car guys like to plan our upgrade path so it is always nice to know what is in the pipeline that might fit our needs. If you give people a realistic date then they shouldn't have a problem with that. If you tell me it is 6-9 months out there may be a few people asking for an update along the way, but nobody should be complaining about it not being released.

I want to run ~500whp on 100% e85 so it sounds like this probably isn't going to be an option for me and that is great to know. Thanks and keep pushing things forward! I love some of the stuff you guys are coming up with. I'll be grabbing an ethanol sensor when they come out.
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Default 01-21-2015, 03:08 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by darkiedm4
How does this compare to meth injection? Like what's the difference between this and meth injection? (besides running from the fuel tank and no extra tank/pump required)
Does it allow higher volume? More even distribution amongst the 6 cilinders?
+1


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Default 01-21-2015, 05:31 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by JETmn
Thanks a ton Steve, that is what we needed! Most of us car guys like to plan our upgrade path so it is always nice to know what is in the pipeline that might fit our needs. If you give people a realistic date then they shouldn't have a problem with that. If you tell me it is 6-9 months out there may be a few people asking for an update along the way, but nobody should be complaining about it not being released.

I want to run ~500whp on 100% e85 so it sounds like this probably isn't going to be an option for me and that is great to know. Thanks and keep pushing things forward! I love some of the stuff you guys are coming up with. I'll be grabbing an ethanol sensor when they come out.

Actually that is our goal for Stage 1 and we are pretty close to that. The VTT 2+ car is making in the neighborhood of 550wtq, that is where things get tight with Stage 1 and why it's at E60. Up top, at the 500whp, it's not a problem at all. Stage 1 is meant to target those that are between 450-550ish. We will be targeting the 500-600 mark for Stage 2. We'll see but we want to get stage 1 out there first. Beyond that, we'd definitely recommend port injection. We are just trying to fill the gap for those that don't want to go all in when its not merited and don't feel this is a replacement for port injection when building a high horsepower car.

As for comparing this to meth. While ethanol's cooling properties for charge temps aren't quite as good as meth, your fueling will be better with this option. In addition, ethanol's other properties and the simplicity of this application, will make it a nice option. This is why those that are running 100% E85 and have the capacity, are dumping meth. As Terry said, it wouldn't be recommended to add it to this application, but we haven't tested it, nor do we really intend to as the whole point is a cleaner alternative to that option.



Click on our banner to visit our website!
Video of our Stage 2 LPFP upgrade installation.

BMS products labeled for use only in competition racing vehicles may only be used on competition racing vehicles operated exclusively on a closed course in conjunction with a sanctioned racing event, in accordance with all federal and state laws, and may never be operated on public roads/highways.
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Default 01-21-2015, 09:31 PM

Tnx for explaining Steve!


F21 M140i - 100-200: 5.18 60-130: 5.96
Audi TTRS - 100-200: 4.01 60-130: 4.5
F80 M3 - 100-200: 4.32, 60-130: 4.8
F20 M135i (sold) - 100-200: 6.26 , 60-130: 7.4
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JETmn JETmn is offline
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Default 01-22-2015, 08:50 AM

Awesome, thanks Steve. This sounds like a good option for many of us then. I will patiently wait...
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Default 01-24-2015, 10:03 AM

Glad to see its coming along. Patiently waiting popcorn in hand. Lol


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