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Default SteveAZ / Fuel-It! E-series Stage 3 LPFP - 08-02-2014, 07:12 PM

Hey guys,

I've been working on this for a little while now and finally got a chance to flow test it after building a new test rig to accommodate it.

A few key points...

-This is a drop in dual stage LPFP assembly consisting of two E85 certified Walbro 450 pumps run in parallel in a stock bucket. (Walbro part # F90000267)
-Other than removing your stock LPFP assembly and dropping in the stage 3, no modifications to the stock LPFP system are needed.
-The first stage runs full time and the DME retains full PWM control of it.
-The second stage runs on demand per the users configuration.
-This setup retains venturi functionality and has been tuned accordingly.

Users will have a few options on controlling the second stage of this setup:

All users will have the option to control it with a Hobbs switch based on boost levels that is also user adjustable.

JB4 users can utilize the nitrous trigger.

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Here's a video of the flow test.



And here is a picture of the pump assembly.

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The second stage of this assembly does require the installation of an additional wiring harness. This too will be plug and play and will not require any additional modifications to the car.

More information, pictures, and logs coming shortly.

NOTE: This setup is NOT intended for the average user. This is for those that will be upgrading to the Double Barrel Shotgun (or using some other type of supplementary injection), are running very high ethanol concentrations, and are making >600whp or so. If you this doesn't describe you...then stage 1 or 2 are for you.



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Video of our Stage 2 LPFP upgrade installation.

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Last edited by Steve @ BMS/Fuel-It!; 08-02-2014 at 07:29 PM..
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Default 08-02-2014, 07:35 PM

Impressive as always


2008 BMW 535i
JB4 G5, BMS Pump Flash, ( Updated FW ), DCI,
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450 HP / 480 TQ ( when running AEM 320, 50% E85 )
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Default 08-03-2014, 04:44 AM

That's a powerful bucket with two 450s stuffed in it, lol.


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Default 08-03-2014, 07:44 AM

Yeah, I'm gonna need this
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Default 08-03-2014, 10:47 AM

Genius.


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Default 08-03-2014, 11:47 AM

Steve are you sure the jet supply system can keep the bucket full when supplying 2 GPM? I do not remember if the OEM pressure regulator dumps fuel back into the fuel bucket or just into the tank?


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It is the sole responsibility of the purchaser and installer of any BMS part to employ the correct installation techniques required to ensure the proper operation of BMS parts, and BMS disclaims any and all liability for any part failure due to improper installation or use. It is the sole responsibility of the customer to verify that the use of their vehicle and items purchased comply with federal, state and local regulations. BMS claims no legal federal, state or local certification concerning pollution controlled motor vehicles or mandated emissions requirements. BMS products labeled for use only in competition racing vehicles may only be used on competition racing vehicles operated exclusively on a closed course in conjunction with a sanctioned racing event, in accordance with all federal and state laws, and may never be operated on public roads/highways. Please click here for more information on legal requirements related to use of BMS parts.
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Default 08-03-2014, 04:04 PM

Thanks guys,

Yes, you're right musc...it is a LOT of fuel capacity and very powerful...hence why I had to upgrade my test bench.

As to your question Russell. Yes, all fuel that is not consumed by the motor is routed back to the bucket and it has 3 sources that feed in to it.

1. Venturi at the bottom of the bucket. (that has been tuned)
2. Regulator over flow from the driver's side.
3. Driver's side venturi which also consumes part of the flow and returns it to the bucket as well.

A HUGE focus was placed on making this system function the same as stock and all of the stock components and functionality are retained....it's just been given a "little" extra oomph....okay a lot...like 3X

I have a new stock regulator assembly...I'll post pics and diagrams later this week that illustrates how everything works.



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Video of our Stage 2 LPFP upgrade installation.

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Default 08-04-2014, 04:47 AM

Here's a few pics I found on ebay......and put in descriptions.

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Video of our Stage 2 LPFP upgrade installation.

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Default 08-04-2014, 08:16 AM

Interesting photo. I read that the drivers side float sensor could not be replaced and you had to replace the whole bucket. In that photo it looks like it snaps in and out.


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Default 08-04-2014, 08:31 AM

Very nice as always Steve


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It is the sole responsibility of the purchaser and installer of any BMS part to employ the correct installation techniques required to ensure the proper operation of BMS parts, and BMS disclaims any and all liability for any part failure due to improper installation or use. It is the sole responsibility of the customer to verify that the use of their vehicle and items purchased comply with federal, state and local regulations. BMS claims no legal federal, state or local certification concerning pollution controlled motor vehicles or mandated emissions requirements. BMS products labeled for use only in competition racing vehicles may only be used on competition racing vehicles operated exclusively on a closed course in conjunction with a sanctioned racing event, in accordance with all federal and state laws, and may never be operated on public roads/highways. Please click here for more information on legal requirements related to use of BMS parts.
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Default 08-04-2014, 09:50 AM

Terry, we are going to need more external triggers built in to the JB4


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Default 08-04-2014, 05:34 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by musc
Interesting photo. I read that the drivers side float sensor could not be replaced and you had to replace the whole bucket. In that photo it looks like it snaps in and out.
I haven't physically replaced it, but yes, I believe you can replace it should you have a spare. I can verify on the new assembly I have later this week.

However...two things you should know...

1. The "quick" connect fitting on the output side of the filter is difficult to remove.

2. I have yet to see a bad float sensor.

I would not recommend going in there unless you have to. If you suspect that float sensor, I would ohm it out with a full tank (approx. 1000 ohms) and a tank that is near empty (approx. 50 ohms) to verify before going to the trouble.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dvo0208
Very nice as always Steve
Thanks

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vertigo
Terry, we are going to need more external triggers built in to the JB4
I spoke with Terry about that. If it truly becomes a need, he is willing to look at it. Given some of the development coming down the pipe...I'm thinking it may become necessary in the not to distant future.



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Video of our Stage 2 LPFP upgrade installation.

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Default 08-04-2014, 09:20 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by SteveAZ
I haven't physically replaced it, but yes, I believe you can replace it should you have a spare. I can verify on the new assembly I have later this week.

However...two things you should know...

1. The "quick" connect fitting on the output side of the filter is difficult to remove.

2. I have yet to see a bad float sensor.

I would not recommend going in there unless you have to. If you suspect that float sensor, I would ohm it out with a full tank (approx. 1000 ohms) and a tank that is near empty (approx. 50 ohms) to verify before going to the trouble.
I am definitely not replacing that drivers side one, lol. I am still having the problem but I know its related to the signal from the passenger float sensor. I will update my thread on it rather than clutter up this one.

Great work on this Stage 3 set up by the way. Maybe I should just get a Stage 3. Even though I don't need it, it looks even cooler than my Stage 2


335is DCT
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Default 08-07-2014, 03:32 PM

To report back on the drivers side fuel float.

It is NOT the same as the passenger side and is NOT easily interchangeable. The connection at the top hat is different and the wires are on the opposite side of the float assembly.



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Video of our Stage 2 LPFP upgrade installation.

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Default 08-10-2014, 08:40 PM

will you be making any hpfp upgrade as well steve?
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Default 08-11-2014, 07:39 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Curare86
will you be making any hpfp upgrade as well steve?
x20000000000


Sleeper edition Cabrio 3 series

Performance: JB4/G5 ISO MHD Flash, RB's and HiFlow oil returns, BMS DCI, PLM ***, cp-e FMIC & OC, aFe scoops & Throttle body spacer, Alpina TCU Flash, Stage 2 LPFP bucketless and Platinum PI by SteveAz, Mspec LSD, Cp-e charge with tial BOV, RB inlets and VTT outlets (let them fight my car doesn't care)
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Default 08-11-2014, 12:38 PM

not to be debby-downer, but has anyone maxed out a wally 450 yet? just with rough calcs you would need something like 85+ lb/min of airflow on e85 to max out that pump even running real high fuel pressure
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Default 08-11-2014, 01:29 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by noorj
not to be debby-downer, but has anyone maxed out a wally 450 yet? just with rough calcs you would need something like 85+ lb/min of airflow on e85 to max out that pump even running real high fuel pressure

Not a downer at all and as I said, this is not for those running stock snails by any means. This is for those that will be making big power...I need not apply. If my car was capable of fully utilizing the low pressure fueling capacity it has....I'd have all the records.

Tony Vargas has maxed out the 450 on 100% E85 running an upgraded HPFP with a single turbo upgrade and that is why this bucket was designed...to support that.

You also have to remember, not only is the pump feeding the motor but it's feeding the venturi in the bucket (approx. 10% loss in flow) and feeding the venturi in the drivers side tank (another 10% ).

For those asking, VTT has an upgraded HPFP with 2 options to suite your needs. The Shotgun single barrel and the double barrel.

www.vargasturbo.com



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Video of our Stage 2 LPFP upgrade installation.

BMS products labeled for use only in competition racing vehicles may only be used on competition racing vehicles operated exclusively on a closed course in conjunction with a sanctioned racing event, in accordance with all federal and state laws, and may never be operated on public roads/highways.

Last edited by Steve @ BMS/Fuel-It!; 08-11-2014 at 01:38 PM..
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Default 08-11-2014, 01:35 PM

Wasn't aware that the venturi's reduced flow that much, I guess with a 20% loss that makes more sense. Good stuff! 900 lph should do the trick for the foreseeable future lol
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Default 08-11-2014, 06:30 PM

Was playing with stage 3+ this morning....

100% E85 of course

LPFP
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HPFP
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Click on our banner to visit our website!
Video of our Stage 2 LPFP upgrade installation.

BMS products labeled for use only in competition racing vehicles may only be used on competition racing vehicles operated exclusively on a closed course in conjunction with a sanctioned racing event, in accordance with all federal and state laws, and may never be operated on public roads/highways.

Last edited by Steve @ BMS/Fuel-It!; 08-11-2014 at 09:06 PM..
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Default 08-12-2014, 08:53 PM

Wicked! Steve is the man

Giving motiv a run for their money
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Default 08-12-2014, 10:08 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by iuhutch
Wicked! Steve is the man

Giving motiv a run for their money
Hahaha, funny you should say that (a few have) and thanks but honestly...that is not our intention.

We are not trying to steal anybodies thunder or duplicate product offerings...only to fill a need and push the platform forward.

This product development started in May to address VTT's needs for more fuel for their Shotgun system and frankly, I'm not sure whether our products compete or not as I don't know any more about them than you guys do.

Either way, we will press forward with what we currently have going and if there are additional fueling needs that aren't currently on the market (or being developed), we'll look at those too.

I wish PTF/Motiv nothing but success as they are doing great things for the platform...much respect.



That said...here is another test video to verify stage 3 while running very low on fuel.



Edit: and here's another log...I've been doing quite a bit of playing around with this. dropped the AFR's up top to 12.2 (for testing) and am in the process of cranking up my LPFP pressures for better atomization in the CP. Going to go back to .175LPM nozzle(s) soon.

LPFP

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HPFP

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IATs

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Link to log



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Video of our Stage 2 LPFP upgrade installation.

BMS products labeled for use only in competition racing vehicles may only be used on competition racing vehicles operated exclusively on a closed course in conjunction with a sanctioned racing event, in accordance with all federal and state laws, and may never be operated on public roads/highways.

Last edited by Steve @ BMS/Fuel-It!; 08-12-2014 at 10:23 PM..
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Default 08-23-2014, 01:32 PM

A couple more logs.

Sorry about the delay I had a couple things going on.

1st I had put a used stock regulator back in the car to test as completely stock, but I suspect since that regulator had been out of the car for a long time, the regulator diaphragm dried out. Consequently it was bleeding off flow. I took it out and put my other stock filter in (no regulator) and all was back to normal. I'll dissect the stock regulator later today to confirm.

Also had the car in the shop longer than expected getting new coilovers put on.

Anyway...back to testing.

Both these tests were run with an external FPR.

Here is stage 3 running without the second stage activated. So basically running as a stage 2.

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Here's stage 3 running with the second stage activated at 8psi.

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And here is the HPFP...(CP injection turned off)

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Will be putting a new stock filter and regulator in tonight and gathering more data and the external FPR will be defeated.



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Video of our Stage 2 LPFP upgrade installation.

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Default 08-23-2014, 07:55 PM

A little more testing today before I log some runs tonight.

The purpose of this test was to find out how much flow a stock filter assembly, input line, and output line could handle. To do this I plumbed the stock filter assembly inline just as it would be in the car with a stage 3 fuel pump on the test bench. I also had to drop the pressures to 20psi or my regulator was too restrictive since there was no fuel being consumed by the motor and things heated up in a hurry.

With just one pump running, I got flows of 1.3gpm.
With both pumps running, I got flows of 2.1gpm.

So this confirmed for me what I wanted to know before shipping this out to Tony for his testing. The stock filter assembly is up to the task.



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Video of our Stage 2 LPFP upgrade installation.

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Default 08-24-2014, 05:32 PM

The logs....

100% E85 and stock filter, regulator, hpfp, rail, and no CP injection. (CP pump, solenoid, and FPR were bypassed for this testing).

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Link to log

http://***********/u/steveaz/stage-3-...=1&data=1-7-11

It was a bit hot when I ran this log as can be seen in my IAT's...so I'll be taking more tonight when its cooler.

I am now satisfied with the testing and will be getting the bucket out to Tony for his testing with the shotgun HPFP.

Edit: Adding another log taken when it was cooler (80 degrees ).

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and the link to the log...

http://***********/u/steveaz/stage-3-...12&zoom=14-181



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Video of our Stage 2 LPFP upgrade installation.

BMS products labeled for use only in competition racing vehicles may only be used on competition racing vehicles operated exclusively on a closed course in conjunction with a sanctioned racing event, in accordance with all federal and state laws, and may never be operated on public roads/highways.

Last edited by Steve @ BMS/Fuel-It!; 08-25-2014 at 09:19 PM..
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