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Terry @ BMS's Avatar
Terry @ BMS Terry @ BMS is offline
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Default Vargas - 11-30-2013, 11:07 AM

Hey guys,

A bit off topic here. But I've been getting a lot of questions via email and rather than have to answer every one individually it's easier for me just to make one post and be done with it.

For various reasons I've decided I can no longer in good conscience endorse or suggest Vargas products. Maybe it's just as simple as a personality difference. But, apparently I'm not the only one that is not getting along with Tony. This was the last post I made in the Vargas discussion thread that was deleted on bimmerboost. And it's the last post I intend to make on Vargas. I wish him all the best from this point forward but I'll be sticking with reputable, professional, and PROVEN turbo shops like RB & FFTEC for our development cars from now on.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Terry@BMS

Tony,

Just to keep this thing on topic, here is a short list of my issues.

1) I did not like how the VT3s were handled. Deposits were taken, mine included and I was happy to offer it, for something that was supposed to come out in August. I expected long before that we'd have full datalogs, timeslips, and 60-130 times posted. When it was clear none of that was going to happen and the kits were still months away from being released in Aug your customers started asking me what was going on. Which put me in a tough spot as I had also lost faith at that point. I asked for a refund and after some grief from you received it. Others were not so lucky and had to file charge backs or sell their spots at a loss.

2) I do not like how the VT2s were handled. From how you talk negatively about RB turbos, to how you've had customers purchase what are essentially prototypes, to how Dzenno tested ASR turbos and passed them off as yours, to how your wheels change more than a 17 year old with a Honda Civic, to how deposits were taken and refunds not issued when asked, to how customers with problems have had a hard time getting them resolved. Granted, none of this is my business. It just rubs me the wrong way.

3) I do not like how the fuel upgrade stuff was handled. It was announced as a be all end all solution and in the end I now believe it was all bogus, based on bad data analysis. No refunds were ever issued and no further work was done to try to make right on the promises.

4) I've met you that one time in SS in person and thought you were a knowledgeable well put together guy. Which was why I decided to put the down the deposits on your turbos and generally support you. Subsequently I've come to know you as somewhat defensive, insecure with regard to taking criticism and discussing things on the forums, and at times questionable with regard to taking care of your customers. It's almost like you have split personality disorder. You're very knowledgeable about turbo hardware. But I can't in good conscience support the stuff when the guy behind it doesn't act in a consistent and professional way.

5) I'm just in a bad mood that our N55 engine is damaged. We sent up a 100% working car and got back a car with 4 bolts sheered off the VANOS system bouncing around in the oil pan. I'm not saying it is your fault. Maybe it's just hot potato and since you were the last one to drive it my annoyance is just being unfairly projected at you. Or maybe running the car without a diverter valve or doing testing on your new diverter valve caused enough surge to hurt something. Adding to the annoyance was we had requested a refund long before the car went up (due to items 1, 2, 3, and 4) and you were unwilling to grant it. I decided to just go with the flow on that one and send the car up despite my reservations and now I regret it.

Long story short, I believe you know your $#@! with turbos, but I just can't bring myself to endorse the stuff. I think some others on here and within the industry feel the same way. For your remaining customers sake I hope you prove everyone wrong but I'm done with this roller coaster ride.


Burger Motorsports
Home of the JB4 the worlds most popular turbocharged tuning system!

It is the sole responsibility of the purchaser and installer of any BMS part to employ the correct installation techniques required to ensure the proper operation of BMS parts, and BMS disclaims any and all liability for any part failure due to improper installation or use. It is the sole responsibility of the customer to verify that the use of their vehicle and items purchased comply with federal, state and local regulations. BMS claims no legal federal, state or local certification concerning pollution controlled motor vehicles or mandated emissions requirements. BMS products labeled for use only in competition racing vehicles may only be used on competition racing vehicles operated exclusively on a closed course in conjunction with a sanctioned racing event, in accordance with all federal and state laws, and may never be operated on public roads/highways. Please click here for more information on legal requirements related to use of BMS parts.
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Torgus Torgus is offline
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Default 11-30-2013, 11:42 AM

I feel the same way.

Bad business practices all around.

I learned early in business you don't talk **** about the competition outright, you do it tactfully.

I wish he just had said from the beginning give me thousands in deposits and i will produce a turbo kit. Because that is exactly what he did. Over a year ago he said he would have stock frame turbos that would outperforms RBs in 2 months. Still nothing on the market that produces as much as RBs.
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Default 11-30-2013, 11:51 AM

Tony is becoming a douche. I commend him for having balls to come out with so many products and actually doing all these R&D himself. I mean I would do the same if I had a multimillion dollar turbo company lol. Just not act the way he is, I mean you can't really blame him. He's like 25 or something no from what I read on BB, so that's fairly young and see how he can act like a spoiled child.


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bnk bnk is offline
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Default 11-30-2013, 12:28 PM

His behavior is aggressive, inpolite, unsecure and unprofessional. He does not understand turbos and your friendly warning may well save your customers from unnecessary headaches. Thank you for that and sorry to hear from still another casualty. I hoped the N55 upgrade would have been a success by now. I hope Rob will tackle it.
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Default 11-30-2013, 01:28 PM

I just hope he comes through with the stage 3's...I'm confident he will. but not sure of the time frame. Really hard to F uck up stage 3's they are just the manifolds and ********* and charge pipe, Main Factors are the Fitment and retrofitting the waste gates,and bracket for water pump ect.. . was planning on building stage 3's my self i hopped on an intro pricing spot. would've been $1500 cheaper if i did it myself after pricing everything. stage3's were suppose to be out in november( this month). but I'm not in a huge rush. Terry sorry about the N55 i just plan on getting what i paid for. and Hopefully we can get it tuned lol


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Curare86 Curare86 is offline
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Default 11-30-2013, 01:30 PM

Thats very dissappointing, sorry to see youve had such a rough time working with him Terry. What does that mean then with regard to tuning the hybrid n55 that's already on the car? As one of the few who's already purchased the upgrade in good faith I'm understandably pretty nervous now!
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Default 11-30-2013, 02:27 PM

i also purchased an n55 upgrade just this week should be shipping soon..are you still going to tune these? I was excited that you had one since then it would be tuned right. i dont want to go put some unproven tune on it and break something or blow it up.


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Terry @ BMS's Avatar
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Default 11-30-2013, 02:42 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Curare86
Thats very dissappointing, sorry to see youve had such a rough time working with him Terry. What does that mean then with regard to tuning the hybrid n55 that's already on the car? As one of the few who's already purchased the upgrade in good faith I'm understandably pretty nervous now!
The reason we got tangled up with Vargas in the first place was to obtain turbos so that we could write JB4 maps for them. So we'll still be tuning the car as planned. We'll make a map for those running E85 only on the OEM flash tune and another for those running the Cobb N55 back end flash we're developing concurrently. And I'll be happy to share any data I have on the turbo good, bad, or otherwise. I'm fairly objective with this stuff. I don't have to like the company to like the turbo. Maybe it will be great. But after we're done tuning it I expect we'll pull it off and resell it if its decent or trash it if it isn't.

Also just as a general rule of of thumb, credible automotive companies don't require you to put down a deposit to R&D parts. They fund development on their own dime and earn that money back if and when a final product is released to the public. So I'd strongly suggest against putting down deposits on anything especially given the track record. When the turbos are proven, in stock, and ready to ship, then just purchase one.


Burger Motorsports
Home of the JB4 the worlds most popular turbocharged tuning system!

It is the sole responsibility of the purchaser and installer of any BMS part to employ the correct installation techniques required to ensure the proper operation of BMS parts, and BMS disclaims any and all liability for any part failure due to improper installation or use. It is the sole responsibility of the customer to verify that the use of their vehicle and items purchased comply with federal, state and local regulations. BMS claims no legal federal, state or local certification concerning pollution controlled motor vehicles or mandated emissions requirements. BMS products labeled for use only in competition racing vehicles may only be used on competition racing vehicles operated exclusively on a closed course in conjunction with a sanctioned racing event, in accordance with all federal and state laws, and may never be operated on public roads/highways. Please click here for more information on legal requirements related to use of BMS parts.
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Terry @ BMS's Avatar
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Default 11-30-2013, 02:54 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by sammy_0559
I just hope he comes through with the stage 3's...I'm confident he will. but not sure of the time frame. Really hard to F uck up stage 3's they are just the manifolds and ********* and charge pipe, Main Factors are the Fitment and retrofitting the waste gates,and bracket for water pump ect.. . was planning on building stage 3's my self i hopped on an intro pricing spot. would've been $1500 cheaper if i did it myself after pricing everything. stage3's were suppose to be out in november( this month). but I'm not in a huge rush. Terry sorry about the N55 i just plan on getting what i paid for. and Hopefully we can get it tuned lol
Yeah I'm sure you'll get some parts eventually. But a lot goes in to packaging twins under there. Getting all the little things right should take more time than doing the manifolds but not even the manifolds are done yet. Not to mention they've completely changed the wastegate design from the original prototype so who knows how the final product is going to actually fit/work.

Frankly, I think anyone would be much happier with a FFTEC twin scroll kit. It will be lighter, easier to install, better supported, and capable of putting out around the same power levels. On spool that is also unknown. The data on the VT3s showed poor spool speed (north of 4400rpm IIRC) which is slower than my 6466 bottom mount kit. They claimed it would be fixed with the final production kit but it always seemed to me that is the sort of thing you need to nail down before you go make 10 kits.


Burger Motorsports
Home of the JB4 the worlds most popular turbocharged tuning system!

It is the sole responsibility of the purchaser and installer of any BMS part to employ the correct installation techniques required to ensure the proper operation of BMS parts, and BMS disclaims any and all liability for any part failure due to improper installation or use. It is the sole responsibility of the customer to verify that the use of their vehicle and items purchased comply with federal, state and local regulations. BMS claims no legal federal, state or local certification concerning pollution controlled motor vehicles or mandated emissions requirements. BMS products labeled for use only in competition racing vehicles may only be used on competition racing vehicles operated exclusively on a closed course in conjunction with a sanctioned racing event, in accordance with all federal and state laws, and may never be operated on public roads/highways. Please click here for more information on legal requirements related to use of BMS parts.
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Default 11-30-2013, 03:20 PM

+1000.

I sat back and watched from a far the workings of VARGAS. In the beginning his offerings were great. 1.5 yrs later and i'm not so impressed. Constant bickering with people trying to help and support his product and always claiming he's superior.

As all have seen I've been chastised on Bimmerboost for pointing this out and now have a new name Njdouche.


Terry, You've done the right thing, Tony has been upright disrespectful of you and your generosity. From creating components to assist in running the V3 to borrowing your wheels and tires to run his best time. Enough is enough is why I blasted him.

P.S. I don't want to forget all the deposit's he has taken from people expecting a delivery of product in a REASONABLE time period. Again, blatant miss management of customer funds.

Last edited by NJrep335I; 11-30-2013 at 05:44 PM..
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TWNEGOS TWNEGOS is offline
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Default 11-30-2013, 04:03 PM

Vargas threw a red flag when he first came into the community and blasted RB that he didn't know what he was talking about and no offense RB isn't a big turbo company. I just thought wow attacking your competition already and your the new kid on the block. My feeling was just STFU and prove yourself instead of running your mouth off the bat.

I will say on #5 with the Vanos bolts shearing. That is a notorious problem on the N55s even in stock form.



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Californiabred Californiabred is offline
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Default 11-30-2013, 04:03 PM

I have to agree with this post in its entirety. I remember when VTT came out with the fuel supply "answer". In short, I asked some questions and he stopped responding. So to that I didn't buy anything from him.

What I also saw that bugged me, as with what Terry said, he was taking deposits for R&D. Nothing has been truly completed yet and the numbers that have come out so far for the batch 2 stage 2 whatever the hell are not spectacular. I do hope that for those that put money down get a legit product or a refund.

His attitude and demeanor overall is ridiculous. For Sticky to side with him on some things is retarded but hey not my forum. I understand that customers can be some dumbasses at times but that does not cause warrant for a businessman to insult his clientele.

I could go on and on and on. However, I have decided that I'm going to use whatever Terry does. He hasn't steered us wrong, ever.

P.S, seems like Shivster has jumped off the wagon and has gone to a different platform. Maybe I'm wrong but it sure as hell seems like it. Glad FFTEC is doing their own thing in a sense.
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TWNEGOS TWNEGOS is offline
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Default 11-30-2013, 04:08 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Californiabred

His attitude and demeanor overall is ridiculous. For Sticky to side with him on some things is retarded but hey not my forum. I understand that customers can be some dumbasses at times but that does not cause warrant for a businessman to insult his clientele.
Couldn't agree more. I was more than once shocked when he was saying crap like I should leave the N54 community. Now I understand why companies stay away. And just blasting potential customers left and right. Really? Really?

Hopefully he comes through on Stage 3s and maybe get his act together, but he won't get my business.



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Default 11-30-2013, 05:28 PM

I hope his Stage 2 Batch 2 turbos are better than the first demo batch... I would have probably put down a deposit already if I hadn't lined up against one at the Chicago 1/2 mile.


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Default 11-30-2013, 05:41 PM

Wow, really glad I didn't purchase the Vargas turbo over the weekend. I was close to moving forward on that but enlight of this new info that I was unaware of, I will continue to run as is until something else comes out that you endorse Terry. I think I speak for the rest of the crew on this forum when I say that we all run your products, not only because they've been tested, proven, then tested again and continue to be followed up on with updates, data, etc., but Terry's built a reputation and company that people can confidently put their trust in and know that if something goes wrong or bad, BMS will have your back.

REALLY glad this was posted up!
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Default 11-30-2013, 06:02 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Terry @ BMS
Frankly, I think anyone would be much happier with a FFTEC twin scroll kit. It will be lighter, easier to install, better supported, and capable of putting out around the same power levels.
Terry, what are guys like me doing with the N55 platform in terms of a turbo upgrade? Or is there no solution at this point in time and that's why everyone was so fired up about the Vargas turbo kit?
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Default 11-30-2013, 06:08 PM

That shet cray! Good looking out Terry!
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Colton Colton is offline
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Default 11-30-2013, 06:19 PM

I ordered the Stage 1s and it took 2+ months of him telling me it's going to be another 2 weeks. After a while he stopped even responding to the e-mails and no one answers the phone over there either. When he was talking with me (somewhat in the beginning of ordering) it took the receptionist 2 days to give me a call back after a voice mail I left. Ended up having to get my credit card company involved because he claimed I can't cancel a order that hasn't shipped yet (and probably wasn't even built yet). This was after waiting weeks for a response until telling him I'm cancelling the order and that I didn't want the product any longer. So glad I ended up going with RB after reading all of this also. Have heard a lot of people getting frustrated with Vargas now


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Default 11-30-2013, 06:36 PM



335is DCT
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Default 11-30-2013, 06:46 PM

finally someone speaks up!
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Default 11-30-2013, 06:49 PM

I welcome anyone who comes to the N54 world offering enhancements and innovation. I also respect that it's a competitive scene, and that despite qualitative differences we have safe and proven options to choose from.
However VTT never impressed me as a professional outfit that cared about how their product was working. Lots of delays and hyped up promises. Seemed like a guinea pig project. Probably some good turbo units came out of it, but it never looked like a professional product line to me. More like a vanity project without a business infrastructure backing it up.
I enjoy my RBs every single day and never regret the decision. If a problem should ever occur I know who to call and he will be answering, treating me with professional courtesy and respect. Nothing is bullet proof, but RBs are pretty darn close. But more than that I look at the guy and the organization that stands behind the product. You know Rob is there for RBs, Terry is there for JB4, ***** is there for the BB flash, Dzenno and Jake are there for PTF. And there are others, but they all stand by their work and will assist and address any issues. To me that is just as important as the product or service. I'll leave it at that.


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335iFFM 335iFFM is offline
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Default 11-30-2013, 07:30 PM

When did they upgrade the VANOS unit?


335i N55 DCT
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335iFFM 335iFFM is offline
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Default 11-30-2013, 07:43 PM

Answer:
01/2011
PDF for Vanos and camshaft

When was Jeffs car built?


335i N55 DCT

Last edited by 335iFFM; 12-01-2013 at 05:11 AM..
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sranch335i sranch335i is offline
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Default 11-30-2013, 08:16 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ocean
I welcome anyone who comes to the N54 world offering enhancements and innovation. I also respect that it's a competitive scene, and that despite qualitative differences we have safe and proven options to choose from.
However VTT never impressed me as a professional outfit that cared about how their product was working. Lots of delays and hyped up promises. Seemed like a guinea pig project. Probably some good turbo units came out of it, but it never looked like a professional product line to me. More like a vanity project without a business infrastructure backing it up.
I enjoy my RBs every single day and never regret the decision. If a problem should ever occur I know who to call and he will be answering, treating me with professional courtesy and respect. Nothing is bullet proof, but RBs are pretty darn close. But more than that I look at the guy and the organization that stands behind the product. You know Rob is there for RBs, Terry is there for JB4, ***** is there for the BB flash, Dzenno and Jake are there for PTF. And there are others, but they all stand by their work and will assist and address any issues. To me that is just as important as the product or service. I'll leave it at that.
well said...
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Mattssi Mattssi is offline
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Default 11-30-2013, 09:20 PM

That's a bum deal, I was looking forward to the n55 upgrade. I've been down the road w/ a place like this before and it wasn't fun. Thanks T.


Matt
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On to the next I guess!
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