N54Tech.com - International Turbo Racing Discussion
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Tapiipat Tapiipat is offline
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Default Turbos did not last long - 07-07-2021, 08:40 AM

Hi. Any good ideas to prevent this from happening again?

335i '08 had new turbochargers in March this year and the reason was that some more grunt was needed and those old ones weren't going to last forever anyways.

Mods before the turbocharger replacement: air box replaced with two conical filters, bigger I/C, no cats, JB4, charge pipe from I/C to manifold, bypass valves, extra injectors in plate in front of the intake. these were all made be the previous owner. The car was not dynoed and the mileage was below 150k km.

The original air filter box with fresh air ducts was installed along with "free flow" filter. This was due to engine sucking hot air with the old version. Turbos were custom from a shop which stated they will be good for ~480 hp. The turbocharger replacement included all new OEM gaskets and thorough cleaning of oil lines. New 5W40 oil and new OEM filter were of course added too.

After turbo replacement it needed some driving with MAP 5 before it became smooth in all revs and the log was somewhat ok:
https://***********/u/tapi/log-16174...log=1&data=1-4

Edit: The link for datazap seems to vanish when I post.

The car ran with pump gas for a month and then it was flashed with MHD for E85 mix. After that few weeks daily driving and then first dyno test. There on fourth pull it started hevay smoking (log here from that pull, 408 hp was the best result): https://***********/u/tapi/log-16210...log=0&data=1-4

I took down the turbos to investigate and I noticed the turbine blades were already touching the chambers. I sent the snails to the manufacturer who repaired them (1,5 months of wait...) and sent a beefy bill along the repaired units. I also got the damaged parts with them.

I looked the parts and to my understanding I can't see any significant reason for them failing except the exhaust side bearings were very worn. It seems like they have worn in 2 months more than the old ones did during 5 years.

The question now is, what could have caused this? Bad parts in turbos? Any mistake in the parts combo in this car? How could I make sure the next ones will survive?

A video of the parts I looked into:
Modified N54 turbochargers after 60 days of driving. - YouTube

Any feedback is much appreciated.
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StormShadow335 StormShadow335 is offline
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Car: 355i
Default 07-07-2021, 10:08 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tapiipat
Hi. Any good ideas to prevent this from happening again?

335i '08 had new turbochargers in March this year and the reason was that some more grunt was needed and those old ones weren't going to last forever anyways.

Mods before the turbocharger replacement: air box replaced with two conical filters, bigger I/C, no cats, JB4, charge pipe from I/C to manifold, bypass valves, extra injectors in plate in front of the intake. these were all made be the previous owner. The car was not dynoed and the mileage was below 150k km.

The original air filter box with fresh air ducts was installed along with "free flow" filter. This was due to engine sucking hot air with the old version. Turbos were custom from a shop which stated they will be good for ~480 hp. The turbocharger replacement included all new OEM gaskets and thorough cleaning of oil lines. New 5W40 oil and new OEM filter were of course added too.

After turbo replacement it needed some driving with MAP 5 before it became smooth in all revs and the log was somewhat ok:
https://***********/u/tapi/log-16174...log=1&data=1-4

Edit: The link for datazap seems to vanish when I post.

The car ran with pump gas for a month and then it was flashed with MHD for E85 mix. After that few weeks daily driving and then first dyno test. There on fourth pull it started hevay smoking (log here from that pull, 408 hp was the best result): https://***********/u/tapi/log-16210...log=0&data=1-4

I took down the turbos to investigate and I noticed the turbine blades were already touching the chambers. I sent the snails to the manufacturer who repaired them (1,5 months of wait...) and sent a beefy bill along the repaired units. I also got the damaged parts with them.

I looked the parts and to my understanding I can't see any significant reason for them failing except the exhaust side bearings were very worn. It seems like they have worn in 2 months more than the old ones did during 5 years.

The question now is, what could have caused this? Bad parts in turbos? Any mistake in the parts combo in this car? How could I make sure the next ones will survive?

A video of the parts I looked into:
Modified N54 turbochargers after 60 days of driving. - YouTube

Any feedback is much appreciated.

What was the manufacturers explanation for the repairs? I'd think that the turbos should be under warranty based on how new they are. If the turbos were installed properly and primed, they shouldn't fail so quickly. You might want to provide more details, such as the brand, etc for people to chime in.


2008 335i 6MT, Doc Race Precision 6062 GEN2 kit, JB4 ST BEF, BMS Meth & dual OCC kit, Helix hpfp, Boost Concepts Stg 2 lpfp, VRSF 3.5" exhaust, & FMIC, ER CP, HKS BOV, 550i clutch.
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THE BEAST THE BEAST is offline
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Car: 2008 E93
Default 07-07-2021, 11:01 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tapiipat
Hi. Any good ideas to prevent this from happening again?

335i '08 had new turbochargers in March this year and the reason was that some more grunt was needed and those old ones weren't going to last forever anyways.

Mods before the turbocharger replacement: air box replaced with two conical filters, bigger I/C, no cats, JB4, charge pipe from I/C to manifold, bypass valves, extra injectors in plate in front of the intake. these were all made be the previous owner. The car was not dynoed and the mileage was below 150k km.

The original air filter box with fresh air ducts was installed along with "free flow" filter. This was due to engine sucking hot air with the old version. Turbos were custom from a shop which stated they will be good for ~480 hp. The turbocharger replacement included all new OEM gaskets and thorough cleaning of oil lines. New 5W40 oil and new OEM filter were of course added too.

After turbo replacement it needed some driving with MAP 5 before it became smooth in all revs and the log was somewhat ok:
https://***********/u/tapi/log-16174...log=1&data=1-4

Edit: The link for datazap seems to vanish when I post.

The car ran with pump gas for a month and then it was flashed with MHD for E85 mix. After that few weeks daily driving and then first dyno test. There on fourth pull it started hevay smoking (log here from that pull, 408 hp was the best result): https://***********/u/tapi/log-16210...log=0&data=1-4

I took down the turbos to investigate and I noticed the turbine blades were already touching the chambers. I sent the snails to the manufacturer who repaired them (1,5 months of wait...) and sent a beefy bill along the repaired units. I also got the damaged parts with them.

I looked the parts and to my understanding I can't see any significant reason for them failing except the exhaust side bearings were very worn. It seems like they have worn in 2 months more than the old ones did during 5 years.

The question now is, what could have caused this? Bad parts in turbos? Any mistake in the parts combo in this car? How could I make sure the next ones will survive?

A video of the parts I looked into:
Modified N54 turbochargers after 60 days of driving. - YouTube

Any feedback is much appreciated.
China turbos ?
If so, what would you expect ?
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QuestFor10s QuestFor10s is offline
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Join Date: Jul 2020
Car: 2011 BMW 335IS
Default 07-09-2021, 01:27 PM

I'm not an expert, but I can see one piston seal is gone. The thrust bearing looks pretty worn to me also. If these were only in the car 2 months then that is excessive wear. My thought is that the wear on the thrust bearing is allowing axial play, which may cause the excessive piston seal wear. The big killer for thrust bearings is high boost and surge. Surge is where the turbo makes more airflow than the engine can consume and the air has nowhere to go except back out the compressor inlet. This causes the turbine and compressor wheels to vibrate axially while banging against the thrust bearing. So, if I were to make an educated guess, I would say you are running too high of boost pressure at too low of RPM. Or you have no BOV. (I see you have recirculation valves, I would test those to make sure they are working as expected (correct vacuum lines, vacuum present). Lastly it could be simply too high of boost pressure. You didn't say what boost you were running. The turbos need the upgraded thrust bearings in them to run over 18 psi and survive long term.


2011 335IS: DCI, VRSF Inlets, VRSF IC, VRSF DP, Stage 2 LPFP, E50 custom tune, N20, Dodson sportsman plus DCT clutch pack, M4 flywheel.

IG: @QuestFor10s
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Tapiipat Tapiipat is offline
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Car: bmw
Default 07-11-2021, 03:13 AM

In all the logs I didn't see any high boost. It was somewhere below 16 in wot pulls.

The thrust bearing had excessive wear to my eyes but not that much that it would cause axial movement for the shaft. As you can see from the video, the lobes of the thrust were still seen and they are some tenths of mm high.

The piston ring on exhaust side was damaged due to the exhaust side main bearing being so worn. At least that is my thought of it.

I don't know who's parts this Finnish "Turbotohtori" uses, so I can't say the brand for this upgrade. The manifolds weren't cast material and they looked like originals outside.
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