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Default 05-26-2021, 09:05 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by patrick
Ran logs this morning on maps 0, 1, and 2, with different (still 93 octane) gas than the previous one where the timing was off. Couple dead spots where traffic got in the way, but does it look any better this time?

Stinger GT2 AWD, mods: JB4 w/ fuel wires, exhaust, intakes, BOVs, Denso plugs gapped 0.022"
EWG connectors installed? Assuming not as boost is really low, seems like you have a boost leak.


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Default 05-26-2021, 09:19 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Terry @ BMS
EWG connectors installed? Assuming not as boost is really low, seems like you have a boost leak.
No, I don't have EWG connectors.


2018 Stinger GT2 AWD
JB4 w/ fuel wires, Stillen exhaust, AEM intakes, TurboXS BOVs, Mishimoto OCC, Ark springs
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patrick patrick is offline
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Default 05-27-2021, 03:06 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Terry @ BMS
EWG connectors installed? Assuming not as boost is really low, seems like you have a boost leak.
I was looking at the user adjustment settings and noticed that a bunch of them are different than the defaults on the first page of this thread. The only one I changed myself was setting DWP to 80 for lagfix - would changes from the previous owner show up here? Are any of these settings being different than default potentially contributing to my issues? (Still need to get the plugs double-checked for the timing. Haven't seen anything immediately noticeable that'd be contributing to boost leak, but I'm going to get someone who actually knows what they're doing to double-check that too.)
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2018 Stinger GT2 AWD
JB4 w/ fuel wires, Stillen exhaust, AEM intakes, TurboXS BOVs, Mishimoto OCC, Ark springs
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Default 05-27-2021, 08:00 PM

I'd change several things. If you have fuel wire, just put 118 all the way down Fuel Bias. Next, zero out the left column from top to bottom. On the right Duty Bias, start at 50 the whole rpm range. Default waste gate possition at 0, PID gain at 20, Auto shift boost redux at 60, FF adaptation at 50. Then zero out that dwp until the rest is sorted.
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Default 05-28-2021, 06:45 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by AWDGT2
I'd change several things. If you have fuel wire, just put 118 all the way down Fuel Bias. Next, zero out the left column from top to bottom. On the right Duty Bias, start at 50 the whole rpm range. Default waste gate possition at 0, PID gain at 20, Auto shift boost redux at 60, FF adaptation at 50. Then zero out that dwp until the rest is sorted.
Thanks, I made those changes.


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Mr. Tech Mr. Tech is offline
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Default 05-28-2021, 06:57 AM

Does anyone know what the Lagfix parameter is actually doing? I'd like to try it out, but I'm already working through some timing issues (likely bad spark plugs, which I just replaced, but haven't tested yet).

If the Lagfix parameter affects timing, boost levels, or AFR values, I'll leave it alone for now. If it's doing something else to increase response, I'll give it a shot after I confirmed my other issue is fixed.

Also, I'm not sure if this detail matters, but I'm driving a 2018 Stinger GT2 with a Mishi intercooler, Ark secondary, and DIY intake upgrade on 93 octane, Map 1.
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Default 05-28-2021, 11:45 AM

Lagfix impacts several things so leave it off is trying to track down an issue.


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It is the sole responsibility of the purchaser and installer of any BMS part to employ the correct installation techniques required to ensure the proper operation of BMS parts, and BMS disclaims any and all liability for any part failure due to improper installation or use. It is the sole responsibility of the customer to verify that the use of their vehicle and items purchased comply with federal, state and local regulations. BMS claims no legal federal, state or local certification concerning pollution controlled motor vehicles or mandated emissions requirements. BMS products labeled for use only in competition racing vehicles may only be used on competition racing vehicles operated exclusively on a closed course in conjunction with a sanctioned racing event, in accordance with all federal and state laws, and may never be operated on public roads/highways. Please click here for more information on legal requirements related to use of BMS parts.
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Default 05-28-2021, 11:46 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by patrick
I was looking at the user adjustment settings and noticed that a bunch of them are different than the defaults on the first page of this thread. The only one I changed myself was setting DWP to 80 for lagfix - would changes from the previous owner show up here? Are any of these settings being different than default potentially contributing to my issues? (Still need to get the plugs double-checked for the timing. Haven't seen anything immediately noticeable that'd be contributing to boost leak, but I'm going to get someone who actually knows what they're doing to double-check that too.)
Since you don't have EWG connectors attached none of those settings are likely an issue. Worth setting lagfix to 0 just to disable and rule it out. Maybe BOV is leaking?


Burger Motorsports
Home of the JB4 the worlds most popular turbocharged tuning system!

It is the sole responsibility of the purchaser and installer of any BMS part to employ the correct installation techniques required to ensure the proper operation of BMS parts, and BMS disclaims any and all liability for any part failure due to improper installation or use. It is the sole responsibility of the customer to verify that the use of their vehicle and items purchased comply with federal, state and local regulations. BMS claims no legal federal, state or local certification concerning pollution controlled motor vehicles or mandated emissions requirements. BMS products labeled for use only in competition racing vehicles may only be used on competition racing vehicles operated exclusively on a closed course in conjunction with a sanctioned racing event, in accordance with all federal and state laws, and may never be operated on public roads/highways. Please click here for more information on legal requirements related to use of BMS parts.
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Mr. Tech Mr. Tech is offline
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Default 05-28-2021, 12:53 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Terry @ BMS
Lagfix impacts several things so leave it off is trying to track down an issue.
Thanks! Will do.

One more question. I just upgraded the firmware to v22. I see that it now logs timing "corrections" instead of the raw timing values. Is the timing correction just the timing value of Ign1 minus the value for that cylinder (ign2 though ign6)?

I ask because I'm getting all zeros for ign2 though ign6 in every pull since the update. I tried Map 2, same thing. I've never had ign1 through 6 match perfectly. Maybe the new spark plugs I put in are THAT good, but it seems odd to me.
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Kmartz_N Kmartz_N is offline
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Default Map 2 logs - 05-28-2021, 05:06 PM

Hello everyone, attached I have a log for two pulls on map 2(on 93 octane). I'm new to reading logs so I'm not exactly sure what range for each parameter is considered "good". I had posted the same logs on another forum, and someone said that I was "pulling -4.5 deg.". I assume they mean that Ign_2 - Ign_4 are reaching a positive value of 4.5. Why do they refer to it as negative 4.5 instead of positive 4.5? Do Ign values that are closer to zero mean that the car is running better? And would it be safe to keep running map 2 from what the logs are reading?

I have a Non-performance pack Veloster N.
Mods list: Dwnpipe, axel back exhaust, CAI, Spark plugs, and an intercooler.

Apologies for asking so many questions.
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File Type: csv Map 2 logs.csv (15.9 KB, 64 views)
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Default 05-28-2021, 10:17 PM

Set your fua to 1. That should enable logging ignition for all cylinders.

Initially under boost/engine load you will see your timing retard, then as you you pull through the rpms you want ignition to increase with all 4 cylinders trending together. Your ignition timing looks good to me.

Last edited by Lil Ripper; 05-28-2021 at 10:33 PM.. Reason: Adding information
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Kmartz_N Kmartz_N is offline
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Smile 05-29-2021, 04:20 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lil Ripper
Set your fua to 1. That should enable logging ignition for all cylinders.

Initially under boost/engine load you will see your timing retard, then as you you pull through the rpms you want ignition to increase with all 4 cylinders trending together. Your ignition timing looks good to me.

Thank you for taking your time to read my log. Ill set the FAU to 1, but I'm not sure why that would make a difference if you can please explain. The trend you describe is how I thought it should be, but other people have told me that the Ign corrections should be closer to zero. And I still don't understand what they mean by "pulling -4.5 deg.", it's a little frustrating that I'm trying to learn but I keep getting mixed information.
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Default 05-29-2021, 07:29 PM

FUA 1 will show raw timing rather than timing corrections on cyl 2-6. You will never get 0 timing corrections, less is better but 0 is not going to happen when running a more aggressive map. Better fuel = better timing= more power.
Always good to compare logs from map 0 to map1 to map2 while using the proper fuel..

So if you are using map1 with 91octane and are seeing good timing results, try using a higher octane fuel if available and try another log on map 1 and you will see an increase in your timing and will likely be less variation between all 4cyl.
One thing I have learned since owning my Jb4 and reading logs is the better fuel you burn is the key too safer power increases and better looking logs as far as timing, afr, boost etc.
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Kmartz_N Kmartz_N is offline
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Default 05-29-2021, 07:41 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lil Ripper
FUA 1 will show raw timing rather than timing corrections on cyl 2-6. You will never get 0 timing corrections, less is better but 0 is not going to happen when running a more aggressive map. Better fuel = better timing= more power.
Always good to compare logs from map 0 to map1 to map2 while using the proper fuel..

So if you are using map1 with 91octane and are seeing good timing results, try using a higher octane fuel if available and try another log on map 1 and you will see an increase in your timing and will likely be less variation between all 4cyl.
One thing I have learned since owning my Jb4 and reading logs is the better fuel you burn is the key too safer power increases and better looking logs as far as timing, afr, boost etc.

I appreciate your explanation. I'm going to start login in map zero and use that as a baseline, as you mentioned. And I'll play around with the different 93 octanes around my area and see which is best.
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Default 05-30-2021, 01:29 AM

Water methanol injection is another good way to increase your octane and helps cool the intake air charge. Injecting A 50/50 mix of methanol and water can take your 91 octane fuel and turn it into 100+ octane fuel and cool your intake charge by 30°+.
You can also mix e85 in your fuel at %30 (e30). This works amazing and you can feel the difference. Now add e30 and water/methanol injection together and you're laughing.

I have used octane boosters as well and they work really good...But can get expensive if you like to use it all the time.
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RUFFSTUFF RUFFSTUFF is offline
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Default 05-30-2021, 03:57 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lil Ripper
Water methanol injection is another good way to increase your octane and helps cool the intake air charge. Injecting A 50/50 mix of methanol and water can take your 91 octane fuel and turn it into 100+ octane fuel and cool your intake charge by 30°+.
You can also mix e85 in your fuel at %30 (e30). This works amazing and you can feel the difference. Now add e30 and water/methanol injection together and you're laughing.

I have used octane boosters as well and they work really good...But can get expensive if you like to use it all the time.
I thought the guidance was to not use E30 with meth?
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Default 05-30-2021, 09:22 AM

No, not at all. There is lots of people using E85 blends and running WMI with great results.

The Big Fuel Test Part 5: E85 Versus All—The Winner is Crowned!
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kdSpartan kdSpartan is offline
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Default First Time Log Check - 06-01-2021, 09:40 PM

Hi all - I just installed my JB4 last week and am trying to learn how to properly log and read logs. I know my way around data analysis and Excel pretty well, but am new to tuning so still learning what to look for. 2018 Stinger GT2 AWD. HKS plugs gapped to .022 (installed last week with the JB4). Running fuel wires. Also running intakes + snorkels and OCC but no other mods yet.

I did two pulls at Map 2 and one at Map 1 (did my best to run through 3rd gear given the road I had to work with). Running Shell 93 Octane. There were some extra rows I removed to reduce noise but kept the original as well if needed.

I'd love it if someone could let me know if Map 2 is looking safe or what else I should be looking for. I've read up on a lot of Terry's general logging threads, but there's a lot of info out there that I'm trying to ensure I really understand before running anything dangerous.

EDIT: Moved to new thread to not get buried here
Attached Files
File Type: csv P21_M2_R6_210601_2117_trim.csv (23.6 KB, 63 views)
File Type: csv P21_M2_R6_210601_2117.csv (79.3 KB, 59 views)


2018 Kia Stinger GT2 AWD

Last edited by kdSpartan; 06-03-2021 at 07:12 AM..
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Default 06-02-2021, 05:01 PM

I have a 2015 Hyundai Sonata 2.0T with the piggy-back Lap3 Uncle Boost (AEM intake and HKS plugs). It is pretty quick and I have been mostly satisfied. Although........ it's a Sonata. lol

But how much of an improvement over the Lap3 is the JB4?

The Lap3 is +5psi over stock. No fuel wires, no tuning options.

I mean, is the JB4 leaps and bounds better? Or really about +15% better?

I had the JB4 + MHD back end flash on my old N54 years ago, and it was great. Terry and his team are an amazing resource. Just looking for an honest opinion of what to expect. (I know I know, posting that question might be biased on this website ;-p )

And where would I tap into for the "fuel wire" on the Sonata?

Thanks!
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Djfourmonie Djfourmonie is offline
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Default 06-02-2021, 05:25 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by nextNME
I have a 2015 Hyundai Sonata 2.0T with the piggy-back Lap3 Uncle Boost (AEM intake and HKS plugs). It is pretty quick and I have been mostly satisfied. Although........ it's a Sonata. lol

But how much of an improvement over the Lap3 is the JB4?

The Lap3 is +5psi over stock. No fuel wires, no tuning options.

I mean, is the JB4 leaps and bounds better? Or really about +15% better?

I had the JB4 + MHD back end flash on my old N54 years ago, and it was great. Terry and his team are an amazing resource. Just looking for an honest opinion of what to expect. (I know I know, posting that question might be biased on this website ;-p )

And where would I tap into for the "fuel wire" on the Sonata?

Thanks!
Define leaps better.

What are you doing with your Sonata?

Map 1 is +4, Map 2 is +1 (+5) and so-on.

Fuel wire keeps the air-fuel ratio around 12.0 which is better for things like intakes.

Logging to improve things or identify problems. Option to run water-methanol injection (worth 2 tenths over Ethanol blends alone in my case, likely more with some tweaking) and doing a stacked setup to make even more power.

Those are the major takeaways with the JB4.

I don't know where exactly to tap the wire for the fuel control wire on Sonata's, I'm sure it's in the directions.


2020 Kia Forte GT
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13.77@103
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nextNME nextNME is offline
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Default 06-02-2021, 06:33 PM

Thanks for the reply Djfourmonie. I understand your question.

During the week the car is a daily driver. Commuter. Three car seats in the back. I do like to get on it when I can (within reason). On the weekend I travel quite a bit and like to take some twisty mountain back roads where you can really push it. I do not plan on 'tracking' the car.

I suppose 'leaps and bounds' would be like going from stock, up to the Lap3 Chip. It was a significant increase in power. And I do feel that yes, the JB4 is superior as far as tuning and aftermarket support, but it might not be another kick-in-the-pants game changer since I already have the Lap3.

So, after spending $500 on the Lap3, which was worth it, would it be even MORE worth it to spend another +$600 for the JB4.

I am by no means trying to talk trash about the JB4, it is an amazing platform. I am just trying to figure out if it is worth the investment considering what I have already done.

Thanks.


2015 Sonata 2.0T. Lap3 Uncle Boost. AEM Intake. HKS Plugs. ADD Catch Can. K5 Throttle Body Spacer. Mechanical Boost Gauge. Custom Exhaust. Megan Coilovers. JVC Speakers. Rockville Sub.
Sold: 2008 535xi. JB4. MHD Back End. XHP Trans Tune. BMS Dual Cone Intake. Charge Pipe. NGK Plugs. Custom Exhaust. BOV. 5" FMIC. Catch Can. Mechanical Boost Gage. BR14 Wheels.
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krissanta94 krissanta94 is offline
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Default How far can the Jb4 go? - 06-03-2021, 05:36 PM

Hey all! i'm currently putting together a parts list and was curious on this platform, how far can the jb4 go before you would need a specific tune? I already own the jb4 but I'll be looking into the basic first (wife doesn't want it all to be one purchase ) intake, catch can, catted ********, midpipe (cops are cracking down on modded exhausted so keep it light and catted).

Oh and its for a 2019 Veloster turbo
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Djfourmonie Djfourmonie is offline
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Default 06-04-2021, 02:56 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by nextNME
Thanks for the reply Djfourmonie. I understand your question.

During the week the car is a daily driver. Commuter. Three car seats in the back. I do like to get on it when I can (within reason). On the weekend I travel quite a bit and like to take some twisty mountain back roads where you can really push it. I do not plan on 'tracking' the car.

I suppose 'leaps and bounds' would be like going from stock, up to the Lap3 Chip. It was a significant increase in power. And I do feel that yes, the JB4 is superior as far as tuning and aftermarket support, but it might not be another kick-in-the-pants game changer since I already have the Lap3.

So, after spending $500 on the Lap3, which was worth it, would it be even MORE worth it to spend another +$600 for the JB4.

I am by no means trying to talk trash about the JB4, it is an amazing platform. I am just trying to figure out if it is worth the investment considering what I have already done.

Thanks.
Wording is important because saying things like "Daily Driver" is the assumption that one or several modifications will make the car unlivable with daily activities.

My car is 98% stock just as Kia intended. Only the stock air filter has been replaced with a K&N drop-in filter that may or may not increase power SLIGHTLY (2-3 hp).

I drive it daily, used it to make money, gather data and drag race it which also gathers data.

The only thing that might interrupt enjoyment is the motor mount inserts from Whiteline Suspension. I only made that additional modification because wheel hop/axle tramp destroys driveline parts and suspensions. If I am going to drag race the car that must be dealt with.

Those I hope are coming out soon because better solutions exist and I don't like the NVH they cause + they don't completely eliminate wheel hop or improve traction, these are false claims often made by manufacturers.

Even so my car is neither unenjoyable or unreliable.

If using pump gas (91-93) other than the improvements I listed over the Uncle chip, Racechip, DTE, etc, etc I see no reason to switch to the JB4.


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Djfourmonie Djfourmonie is offline
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Default 06-04-2021, 03:51 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by krissanta94
Hey all! i'm currently putting together a parts list and was curious on this platform, how far can the jb4 go before you would need a specific tune? I already own the jb4 but I'll be looking into the basic first (wife doesn't want it all to be one purchase ) intake, catch can, catted ********, midpipe (cops are cracking down on modded exhausted so keep it light and catted).

Oh and its for a 2019 Veloster turbo
Why would you need a parts list?

Also there is much more to "performance" than just parts.

Example:

Simple formula 1320 divided by the trap speed in my sig (103.47) = 12.757 predicted ET

My best ET is actually 13.75 (101.9) so where is the additional second I am losing?

To get it via trap speed, using the formula that is 1 tenth of a second, equals 1 mph increase in trap speed, equals 100 lbs.

Meaning that if I drop 100 lbs of sprung weight or roughly 80 lbs of unsprung weight, I gain 1 tenth.

In recent dyno testing going from Map 3 to Map 5 while not the most efficient thing to do made exactly 10 hp more (240 vs 250 whp uncorrected).

Adding water-methanol injection (50/50 mix give or take) increased trap speed from 101.9 to 103.47 and kept that advantage even with heat soak. That actually works out to 15 hp.

However ran together on the dyno with similar boost levels saw no additional gain -

SAE 247 whp (Map 5) vs 246 whp (Map 7).

The longer the WMI is on the more effective it is and since dyno runs are only in 3rd or 4th gear that might be why no gain is seen. It does however make more power than pump gas (227 vs 211).

Beware as many things don't contribute to the cumulative effect IE if I get an intake, ********, exhaust and intercooler I will make dramatically more power than just a tune alone.

Thus far I've seen little evidence of that and return on investment remains quite low because other things can prevent gains from being seen.

The three most effective ways to improve performance are either difficult to grasp or controversial.

It is possible to gain over a second just in the first 60 ft the car moves (assuming things don't go wrong during the run). That change would apply to how the car behaves on the street because uncontrollable wheel spin would be a thing of the past.

Accomplishing that is murky at best because knowledge isn't shared widely.

I've run fuel experiments and the results are encouraging, there is at least a tenth or so based on what the car runs.

And finally the most efficient way to increase power on anything turns out to be the most efficient way to increase power on turbocharged cars without increasing boost (in-fact lowering it).

Caution here because the hard limitation of the exhaust turbine on the car limits power production and that's only solved with a larger turbo.

I did not mention once that there is a problem with the intake, intercooler or any part of the exhaust system.

Solving the two problem areas can make any car dramatically faster without a massive investment in time or money.

One distinction has to be made -

If you own a manual then everything I said applies. Got a DCT or Automatic?

DCT's lower launch RPM is your main problem and then shift points aren't optimized for best acceleration with additional power over stock.

Automatics like older Sonatas Optimas, 1st gen Velosters, 2016-2018 Forte Koup SX and Forte 5 SX wagon all have a tight (low rpm) torque converters.

Somehow you have to force the launch rpm to go up because much time is lost here.

Fun Fact -

All the 1.6L Turbo cars are capable of running 13's in the 1/4 mile

Manual = 95 mph (Forte GT)
DCT = 96 mph (Elantra N-Line)
Auto = 96 mph (2016 Veloster Turbo or Forte 5 SX)

1320 divided by 95 = 13.89
* 96 = 13.75


I think I have the Rubix Cube solved but I'll let the results speak for themselves.


2020 Kia Forte GT
6 Speed Manual
JB4+Bluetooth Connect
Burger Motorsports Water Methanol (45/55 mix)
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13.77@103
Map 7, E30+WMI, Hoosier Drag Radials
E85 Station Locator (US Only)
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krissanta94 krissanta94 is offline
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Default 06-04-2021, 08:22 AM

That's awesome man, I understand the point your trying to make and that's a lot of information you've put the time and effort into. But a parts list or better put a build is entirely up to the eye of the beholder, but the question is still how far can you take the jb4 before requiring a specific tune other then the obvious of fueling, and turbo upgrades.
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