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RUFFSTUFF RUFFSTUFF is offline
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Default 04-20-2021, 04:20 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Djfourmonie
I've used it, it won't "wreck" your plugs, it will turn them orange and that is the MMT residue.

If you use it lots, it will turn everything orange, the combustion chamber, the faces of the valves, all that.

But that is using it for basically years, constant use. Some people have done that, I believe Saab did some long term testing MMT as a octane booster and also pre-turbo water-methanol injection for production cars.

How many miles did you run it?
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Djfourmonie Djfourmonie is offline
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Default 04-20-2021, 04:24 AM

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Originally Posted by RUFFSTUFF
How many miles did you run it?
Only at the track to convert 91 into something more reasonable.

I wanted to see how fast or slow my car would run, lost 2 mph with one can for five gallons which is 103 octane.

That is why I don't really use anything but E85 blends.

Some crazy Canucks run it regularly because their access to E85 is very limited.


2020 Kia Forte GT
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Burger Motorsports Water Methanol (45/55 mix)
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13.77@103
Map 7, E30+WMI, Hoosier Drag Radials
E85 Station Locator (US Only)
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RUFFSTUFF RUFFSTUFF is offline
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Default 04-20-2021, 04:37 AM

Which is probably why you can repeat the product marketing faithfully, and I say compare spark plugs at 20000 miles with 3oz Boostane every other tank with spark plugs at 20000 miles with 5 gal E85 every other tank...

You'll most likely wonder where the electrode went in the Boostane car...
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CK-19-GT2 CK-19-GT2 is offline
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Default 04-20-2021, 06:42 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Djfourmonie
You can always reduce the boost it's not a problem. It works fine with bolt-ons.
OK so if I'm running map5 (7psi over no tapper) with pure 103 race fuel and the ulrimate performance setup and my boost safety at 24psi I should be fine? Does anyone one here run the ultimate performance combo that can confirm? I know most of you out there don't run 103 octane but maybe somebody running E30 or E85 and the combo can chime in. I ask because in the beginning there were major boost spikes causing issues so I never went that route. But with my 2022 variable exhaust I wanna try it ��

Last edited by CK-19-GT2; 04-20-2021 at 06:48 AM..
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Default 04-21-2021, 05:28 PM

This happen yet?
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Default 04-21-2021, 05:30 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by CK-19-GT2
OK so if I'm running map5 (7psi over no tapper) with pure 103 race fuel and the ulrimate performance setup and my boost safety at 24psi I should be fine? Does anyone one here run the ultimate performance combo that can confirm? I know most of you out there don't run 103 octane but maybe somebody running E30 or E85 and the combo can chime in. I ask because in the beginning there were major boost spikes causing issues so I never went that route. But with my 2022 variable exhaust I wanna try it ��
Should be fine to run MAP 5. Just log it and check the data. If you get boost spike and have EWG wires, just lower the FF.
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Default 04-21-2021, 07:37 PM

Got our new AWD dynojet up and running finally today, strapped the Kia down for a few runs to break it in. A few on 91-crapane and a few more on E30. Will crank up the boost and E85 mix in the near future.

Power mods are JB4, BMS intake, BMS intercooler. CPI/flex fuel sensor installed but not enabled for these runs.

Pro tip: We had a decent amount of timing corrections on 91 octane as expected, but when we added E30 to speed up it's adaption we removed the battery ground for a few minutes and that did the trick! So if your timing is ever worse than expected for the fuel quality you can give that a whirl. We've been looking around for the ECU adaption reset commands via CANbus but so far not been successful. So the old school method will have to do for now.
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It is the sole responsibility of the purchaser and installer of any BMS part to employ the correct installation techniques required to ensure the proper operation of BMS parts, and BMS disclaims any and all liability for any part failure due to improper installation or use. It is the sole responsibility of the customer to verify that the use of their vehicle and items purchased comply with federal, state and local regulations. BMS claims no legal federal, state or local certification concerning pollution controlled motor vehicles or mandated emissions requirements. BMS products labeled for use only in competition racing vehicles may only be used on competition racing vehicles operated exclusively on a closed course in conjunction with a sanctioned racing event, in accordance with all federal and state laws, and may never be operated on public roads/highways. Please click here for more information on legal requirements related to use of BMS parts.
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Default 04-21-2021, 08:23 PM

That torque is impressive! Solid job!
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Default 04-21-2021, 10:13 PM

I never even thought about ecu adaptation reset when switching fuels(e30, e40, ms109 etc) because I'm a noob. Would this be the same for all kia/hyundai platforms, my guess is yes. And this would be why when I switch too different fuels I don't notice the difference until after a few "drive cycles"?

ql
Quote:
Originally Posted by Terry @ BMS
Got our new AWD dynojet up and running finally today, strapped the Kia down for a few runs to break it in. A few on 91-crapane and a few more on E30. Will crank up the boost and E85 mix in the near future.

Power mods are JB4, BMS intake, BMS intercooler. CPI/flex fuel sensor installed but not enabled for these runs.

Pro tip: We had a decent amount of timing corrections on 91 octane as expected, but when we added E30 to speed up it's adaption we removed the battery ground for a few minutes and that did the trick! So if your timing is ever worse than expected for the fuel quality you can give that a whirl. We've been looking around for the ECU adaption reset commands via CANbus but so far not been successful. So the old school method will have to do for now.
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Djfourmonie Djfourmonie is offline
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Default 04-22-2021, 01:13 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lil Ripper
I never even thought about ecu adaptation reset when switching fuels(e30, e40, ms109 etc) because I'm a noob. Would this be the same for all kia/hyundai platforms, my guess is yes. And this would be why when I switch too different fuels I don't notice the difference until after a few "drive cycles"?

ql
I would say yes and here's why -

Twice now on the dyno when I switch from running pump gas (91) to running Map 7 with pump gas, I lose all ignition advance even from pump gas which tops out at 5 degrees.

Last time it wasn't as bad since I have more methanol than water this time and not the other way around.

Still it made less power than Map 2 which hit 224 whp on 91 on DSport's dyno but as soon as we hit the water methanol it dropped to 218 whp. Then I started having datalog problems and we had to abort.

I've only reset the PCM once when I had the lean code from too much ethanol.

I think this would only be needed at the dyno. Unless your doing a fuel change at the track.


2020 Kia Forte GT
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13.77@103
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E85 Station Locator (US Only)
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Default 04-22-2021, 01:16 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Terry @ BMS
Got our new AWD dynojet up and running finally today, strapped the Kia down for a few runs to break it in. A few on 91-crapane and a few more on E30. Will crank up the boost and E85 mix in the near future.

Power mods are JB4, BMS intake, BMS intercooler. CPI/flex fuel sensor installed but not enabled for these runs.

Pro tip: We had a decent amount of timing corrections on 91 octane as expected, but when we added E30 to speed up it's adaption we removed the battery ground for a few minutes and that did the trick! So if your timing is ever worse than expected for the fuel quality you can give that a whirl. We've been looking around for the ECU adaption reset commands via CANbus but so far not been successful. So the old school method will have to do for now.
When can I come over?


2020 Kia Forte GT
6 Speed Manual
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Burger Motorsports Water Methanol (45/55 mix)
Whiteline Springs

13.77@103
Map 7, E30+WMI, Hoosier Drag Radials
E85 Station Locator (US Only)
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Default 04-22-2021, 02:58 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Djfourmonie
I would say yes and here's why -

Twice now on the dyno when I switch from running pump gas (91) to running Map 7 with pump gas, I lose all ignition advance even from pump gas which tops out at 5 degrees.

Last time it wasn't as bad since I have more methanol than water this time and not the other way around.

Still it made less power than Map 2 which hit 224 whp on 91 on DSport's dyno but as soon as we hit the water methanol it dropped to 218 whp. Then I started having datalog problems and we had to abort.

I've only reset the PCM once when I had the lean code from too much ethanol.

I think this would only be needed at the dyno. Unless your doing a fuel change at the track.
Makes sense! I recently mixed c85 and 94 (e30) and it wasn't all that impressive.... UNTIL,
I drove it a few more times later on. No timing corrections and more boost (22psi) map 3. And boy does that little 1.6 pull nice and hard all the way to red line.

I still don't like how much fuel it pulls up top when running meth. Its always above 6000rpm when it breaks up. Never does it when I have meth turned off
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Default 04-22-2021, 03:29 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Terry @ BMS
CA. Have someone who can come out in a week or two it looks like. If anyone can come sooner email me.
Did you guys have that person show up yet?


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Djfourmonie Djfourmonie is offline
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Default 04-22-2021, 07:13 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lil Ripper
Makes sense! I recently mixed c85 and 94 (e30) and it wasn't all that impressive.... UNTIL,
I drove it a few more times later on. No timing corrections and more boost (22psi) map 3. And boy does that little 1.6 pull nice and hard all the way to red line.

I still don't like how much fuel it pulls up top when running meth. Its always above 6000rpm when it breaks up. Never does it when I have meth turned off
When you say it breaks up at high rpm do you see your fuel pressure drop in your logs?

Mine runs clean on Map 3 and additive 55 which is Map 3 ish boost levels (Map 7). Maybe you need to back off the amount of methanol or try Map 4 or 5.


2020 Kia Forte GT
6 Speed Manual
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Burger Motorsports Water Methanol (45/55 mix)
Whiteline Springs

13.77@103
Map 7, E30+WMI, Hoosier Drag Radials
E85 Station Locator (US Only)
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Lil Ripper Lil Ripper is offline
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Default 04-22-2021, 08:55 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Djfourmonie
When you say it breaks up at high rpm do you see your fuel pressure drop in your logs?

Mine runs clean on Map 3 and additive 55 which is Map 3 ish boost levels (Map 7). Maybe you need to back off the amount of methanol or try Map 4 or 5.
Fuel pressure is good as it doesn't move off of 15. I never really use map 7. Usually just map 3 running 94 octane and 60m/40w mix. Additive set at 60. Afr between 12.3 and 12.6. But my trims take a deep dive past 5500rpm.

If I turn meth off my fuel trims are maxed at 42 the whole time and I never have an issue.
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Djfourmonie Djfourmonie is offline
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Default 04-22-2021, 10:11 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lil Ripper
Fuel pressure is good as it doesn't move off of 15. I never really use map 7. Usually just map 3 running 94 octane and 60m/40w mix. Additive set at 60. Afr between 12.3 and 12.6. But my trims take a deep dive past 5500 rpm.

If I turn meth off my fuel trims are maxed at 42 the whole time and I never have an issue.
What nozzle are you using? On E30 and even on pump gas it goes down to 11.8 AFR from 5500 to fuel cut with I believe is a 55 methanol/45 water mix.

BM7 which is 640cc and that's additive 50-55.

You could be at the point were the stock fuel system can't pull anymore fuel so you'll need to change that with a flash. I think if I understand it right, that 12.6 is the leanest it wants go and there is still too much fuel.

The car will benefit from some mucking around with cam timing.

Will Hatzer is working on something.


2020 Kia Forte GT
6 Speed Manual
JB4+Bluetooth Connect
Burger Motorsports Water Methanol (45/55 mix)
Whiteline Springs

13.77@103
Map 7, E30+WMI, Hoosier Drag Radials
E85 Station Locator (US Only)
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Default 04-22-2021, 11:12 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Djfourmonie
What nozzle are you using? On E30 and even on pump gas it goes down to 11.8 AFR from 5500 to fuel cut with I believe is a 55 methanol/45 water mix.

BM7 which is 640cc and that's additive 50-55.

You could be at the point were the stock fuel system can't pull anymore fuel so you'll need to change that with a flash. I think if I understand it right, that 12.6 is the leanest it wants go and there is still too much fuel.

The car will benefit from some mucking around with cam timing.

Will Hatzer is working on something.
Using the BM7 nozzle. I was wondering If it would be better to run the BM5. Or maybe have my meth turn on at 11or 12psi instead of 7 psi. Or maybe it's time for new plugs seeing as I have 40,000 kms on them (hks m45xl).
I was talking to N75 about tuning the car a Couple of days ago. They have tuned a few cars running JB4 with good results. So I'm leaning towards doing that in the next couple of weeks and still using my JB4.
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Djfourmonie Djfourmonie is offline
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Default 04-22-2021, 11:29 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lil Ripper
Using the BM7 nozzle. I was wondering If it would be better to run the BM5. Or maybe have my meth turn on at 11or 12psi instead of 7 psi. Or maybe it's time for new plugs seeing as I have 40,000 kms on them (hks m45xl).
I was talking to N75 about tuning the car a Couple of days ago. They have tuned a few cars running JB4 with good results. So I'm leaning towards doing that in the next couple of weeks and still using my JB4.
I have increased where to half of total boost so 11 (22 psi peak) because I see when the WMI flows the timing drops and it takes till about 3500-4000 rpm for the timing to recover.

This is a 2500 rpm log pull or dyno pull the result is the same.

Plugs? Naa I have 30+ thousand on the stock plugs. Ton of dyno pulls and double digit drag passes.

You definitely want to keep the JB4 plugged in. That is called a stacked setup it's very common in Audi/VW and BMW communities. The benefits of keeping it plugged in and getting a back-end flash are tremendous. Besides what is going to control your WMI system?

You get superior boost control, boost by gear, 1/2/3 gear boost reduction.

With the flash you get adjusted fuel limits, lowered torque limits and cam timing adjusted, it allows the JB4 to work better.

I think your nozzle is fine actually.

I would have moved to a Back End Flash already but I want to see how far I can take the JB4 just to piss these flash only supporters off.


2020 Kia Forte GT
6 Speed Manual
JB4+Bluetooth Connect
Burger Motorsports Water Methanol (45/55 mix)
Whiteline Springs

13.77@103
Map 7, E30+WMI, Hoosier Drag Radials
E85 Station Locator (US Only)
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Default 04-23-2021, 09:30 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by johnnhp
Did you guys have that person show up yet?
He's supposed to be by today! Fingers crossed lol


Burger Motorsports
Home of the JB4 the worlds most popular turbocharged tuning system!

It is the sole responsibility of the purchaser and installer of any BMS part to employ the correct installation techniques required to ensure the proper operation of BMS parts, and BMS disclaims any and all liability for any part failure due to improper installation or use. It is the sole responsibility of the customer to verify that the use of their vehicle and items purchased comply with federal, state and local regulations. BMS claims no legal federal, state or local certification concerning pollution controlled motor vehicles or mandated emissions requirements. BMS products labeled for use only in competition racing vehicles may only be used on competition racing vehicles operated exclusively on a closed course in conjunction with a sanctioned racing event, in accordance with all federal and state laws, and may never be operated on public roads/highways. Please click here for more information on legal requirements related to use of BMS parts.
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Default 04-23-2021, 09:30 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lil Ripper
I never even thought about ecu adaptation reset when switching fuels(e30, e40, ms109 etc) because I'm a noob. Would this be the same for all kia/hyundai platforms, my guess is yes. And this would be why when I switch too different fuels I don't notice the difference until after a few "drive cycles"?

ql
Yes changing fuels always requires some adaption runs, but if the vehicle is being stubborn and not bringing back timing advance quickly enough for your liking the battery reset seems to do the trick, at least on the Stinger.


Burger Motorsports
Home of the JB4 the worlds most popular turbocharged tuning system!

It is the sole responsibility of the purchaser and installer of any BMS part to employ the correct installation techniques required to ensure the proper operation of BMS parts, and BMS disclaims any and all liability for any part failure due to improper installation or use. It is the sole responsibility of the customer to verify that the use of their vehicle and items purchased comply with federal, state and local regulations. BMS claims no legal federal, state or local certification concerning pollution controlled motor vehicles or mandated emissions requirements. BMS products labeled for use only in competition racing vehicles may only be used on competition racing vehicles operated exclusively on a closed course in conjunction with a sanctioned racing event, in accordance with all federal and state laws, and may never be operated on public roads/highways. Please click here for more information on legal requirements related to use of BMS parts.
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Default 04-23-2021, 02:34 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Djfourmonie
Why on earth would you switch to octane booster? Get the water methanol system.

Yes you log any change you make like fuel quality.

As it stands right now I am within 9 whp of my E40 power numbers (236whp) on 45/55 mix Boost Additive 50 which is equivalent to Map 3 as it made 227whp more tweaking and turning the boost up maybe a pound will get me there.

No reason to use Octane Booster.
I'm not going meth for a while. I've been running an E30 blend for a while and whenever I'm unable to get to a station that has E85 I'll run some Octane booster with just 91 until next fill up.

It definitely doesn't drive the same with the 91 and Octane booster which is why I was asking if there's any changes in settings that will work better with that until I go back to E30.
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Default 04-23-2021, 08:17 PM

2.5L dyno testing here: Finally got our hands on a new 2.5L! - N54Tech.com - International Turbo Racing Discussion


Burger Motorsports
Home of the JB4 the worlds most popular turbocharged tuning system!

It is the sole responsibility of the purchaser and installer of any BMS part to employ the correct installation techniques required to ensure the proper operation of BMS parts, and BMS disclaims any and all liability for any part failure due to improper installation or use. It is the sole responsibility of the customer to verify that the use of their vehicle and items purchased comply with federal, state and local regulations. BMS claims no legal federal, state or local certification concerning pollution controlled motor vehicles or mandated emissions requirements. BMS products labeled for use only in competition racing vehicles may only be used on competition racing vehicles operated exclusively on a closed course in conjunction with a sanctioned racing event, in accordance with all federal and state laws, and may never be operated on public roads/highways. Please click here for more information on legal requirements related to use of BMS parts.
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Default 04-23-2021, 09:04 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by khancerto
I'm not going meth for a while. I've been running an E30 blend for a while and whenever I'm unable to get to a station that has E85 I'll run some Octane booster with just 91 until next fill up.

It definitely doesn't drive the same with the 91 and Octane booster which is why I was asking if there's any changes in settings that will work better with that until I go back to E30.
Try resetting the battery as Terry did on the Stinger. Timing should be good, the problem is it's not oxygen rich like E85 blends are.

The alternative is to buy a 5 gallon pale of 100% Methanol. Sometimes you can get it dirt cheap at farming supply stores. Otherwise go to the Sonoco, F&L or VP website and look for your local dealer.

Typically runs about $40-$45 and when you consider how much VP Octanium Unleaded, Torco Accelerator , Race Gas or Boostane cost, this is better, makes more power than E blends, burns cooler and way more power than the octane boosters.

Hold on a second...

Are you just using blends and octane boosters running around around town?


2020 Kia Forte GT
6 Speed Manual
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E85 Station Locator (US Only)
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Default 04-23-2021, 09:34 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Terry @ BMS
Yes changing fuels always requires some adaption runs, but if the vehicle is being stubborn and not bringing back timing advance quickly enough for your liking the battery reset seems to do the trick, at least on the Stinger.
Makes sense, Thanks.
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Default 04-24-2021, 11:08 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Terry @ BMS
I think the safety was just overly sensitive in this situation. You rolled in to the rev limiter so the ECU cut fuel longer than expected during a normal shift.

I just posted an v23_t7 update in the alpha channel you can load and log/test.
Sorry for not following up sooner with more logs. I've attached some map 3 logs from the v23_t7 alpha. How do things look?

I have since only had one instance where the car went into limp mode and reported an "AFR Lean" last safety code.

Unfortunately, this was while my wife was driving the car without me, and she hadn't turned on logging...nor could she remember specifics on when or why it happened. She said she was WOT, and it might have been in between a shift. However, she was going 50mph+, making it pretty unlikely it was the 1st-to-2nd shift if accurate.

I know that's not at all helpful, so I'm curious if you see anything in the logs that might indicate a problem or clue us in otherwise.

Otherwise, drivability has been great on my end. I definitely think you were on to something with the safety being overly sensitive. Let me know if there's any other specific data I should collect for you.

Thanks as always!
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