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rooringhusky rooringhusky is offline
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Default 07-08-2015, 12:36 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by dmacpro91
Right now I'm going to say it is worth it. Idk why my build has had such problems, but other people's builds are working great. We believe my weird shifts aren't a problem in the main clutch packs, but in the torque converter. Since they went through and redid my transmission last time, the shifts feel REALLY firm which is what you want for a transmission that will hold a good bit of power. After this weird shift thing is resolved, I'll be really happy with the transmission. I know Phuong is making something around 650 at 25psi on a 6767 and his logs look good.



I have the top of the line Level 10 transmission now. Once I get my torque converter installed (which will hopefully resolve this weird shift), I'll be pushing the limits not only of this tranny, but the engine itself as well. Soon I'll be upgrading to a 6466 gen 2 and plan on maxing that thing out.


First post updated.
Glad to hear someone is ready to take the AT by the horns!! Best of luck Donnie
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Default 07-14-2015, 02:08 PM

I've been pushing the car and the LVL 10 trans is holding 650 hp with no issues.






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Dmac @ BMS/DMD's Avatar
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Default 07-18-2015, 03:55 PM

New torque converter is in, same problems. Idk what Level 10 did to my transmission, but I can't even get solid shifts at 23psi where my stock transmission was completely fine. Yes I have PLENTY of logs to back that statement up. I'll be contacting Pat monday to see how he wants to resolve this.

As of now I've spent nearly $7500 on this transmission build trying to get it working and have NOTHING to show for it. This transmission in my car is worse than my stock transmission ever was.

Copying this statement to the first post as well.


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135pats 135pats is offline
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Default 07-18-2015, 04:48 PM



Ugh. Keep us posted man, can't imagine how frustrated you must be at this point.

For $7.5K the transmission damn well better hold whatever you can throw at it. Onus is squarely on LVL10 to make this right.
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alpinedevil335 alpinedevil335 is offline
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Default 07-18-2015, 05:41 PM

Bummer. Not looking good for us AT guys.
Sorry to hear about your troubles.
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Terry @ BMS's Avatar
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Default 07-18-2015, 05:44 PM

Bummer.. Time for an MT swap. Or buy a junker OEM trans and throw that in.


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Default 07-18-2015, 05:52 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dmac @ BMS/DMD
New torque converter is in, same problems. Idk what Level 10 did to my transmission, but I can't even get solid shifts at 23psi where my stock transmission was completely fine. Yes I have PLENTY of logs to back that statement up. I'll be contacting Pat monday to see how he wants to resolve this.

As of now I've spent nearly $7500 on this transmission build trying to get it working and have NOTHING to show for it. This transmission in my car is worse than my stock transmission ever was.

Copying this statement to the first post as well.

which tcu flash are you running?


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(#233)
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Default 07-18-2015, 08:20 PM

Oh nooo man. Nooo.


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(#234)
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Default 07-18-2015, 09:36 PM

I hope that LVL 10 sorts it out for you Donnie in a timely fashion. I would assume that there are quite a few 600+ whp N54 automatics in need of a trans build.

Initially, when you had posted videos with failed shifts, I was going to wait it out. But soon afterwards I seen a video of your car shifting well with 30 psi so I was assuming that all was well and that transission had adapted. It was at that point in which I decided to follow suit and pulled the trigger on the LVL 10 build.



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Default 07-18-2015, 10:12 PM

Sorry to hear the about the most recent issues. WTF I was hoping when I seen your next post it would have been some positive news. I think it safe to say that level 10 full build has been a bust for most if not all. This shop has some serious issues that they need to sort before continuing selling these bulletproof 5k kits. The company should remove this option from their website until resolved and proper r&r done.


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(#236)
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Default 07-19-2015, 10:41 AM

We were waiting on the outcome of this thread to decide if we were doing a full build on our '08 135i AT.
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(#237)
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Default 07-19-2015, 11:25 AM

Having had a couple conversations in person with the guys at lvl 10, I have a theory on why their products don't work so well for us. I think it has to do with the Valve Body. One of the things they do to the valve body is port out certain channels. Usually they can raise line pressure to compensate and the extra volume helps create more clamping force. Without additional line pressure you would lose some clamping force. (as the solenoid is going to move the same amount of fluid into a bigger channel) They personally told me this much. Normally they raise torque values in the ecu to accomplish a raise in line pressure.

I also strongly believe there is adaptation values for solenoid performance. (actually I know; it's the main thing the INPA reset does, in addition to resetting clutch wear aka engagement point) I am pretty sure the TCU adjusts the electrical inputs into the solenoid over time to reach a preset "activation curve" if that makes sense, basically what I am trying to say is I think the TCU adjusts voltage and amperage on a solenoid by solenoid basis over time to reach a predefined shift characteristic. I believe this due to reading and lots of in person testing over 3 different zf hp21 N54's, with and without level 10 products. I believe the porting Lvl 10 does throws this off. If I do the INPA reset after the drive cycle for engagement points my trans feels peppy and shift just like when I got the valve body.. Its really nice but over time the benefits diminish. Obviously you can't really run this reset too many times as it does cause wear so I just live with it as it is.

There's something else too, but I don't want to start a fight over here again. If anyones interested I have an "interesting" insight into drivability (smoothness) of the AT. PM me.
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(#238)
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Default 07-19-2015, 12:08 PM

I think I am going with level 10 valve body and torque converter and call it a day, it go out at least I am not out $7,500


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(#239)
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Default 07-19-2015, 01:00 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nniftyfour
Having had a couple conversations in person with the guys at lvl 10, I have a theory on why their products don't work so well for us. I think it has to do with the Valve Body. One of the things they do to the valve body is port out certain channels. Usually they can raise line pressure to compensate and the extra volume helps create more clamping force. Without additional line pressure you would lose some clamping force. (as the solenoid is going to move the same amount of fluid into a bigger channel) They personally told me this much. Normally they raise torque values in the ecu to accomplish a raise in line pressure.

I also strongly believe there is adaptation values for solenoid performance. (actually I know; it's the main thing the INPA reset does, in addition to resetting clutch wear aka engagement point) I am pretty sure the TCU adjusts the electrical inputs into the solenoid over time to reach a preset "activation curve" if that makes sense, basically what I am trying to say is I think the TCU adjusts voltage and amperage on a solenoid by solenoid basis over time to reach a predefined shift characteristic. I believe this due to reading and lots of in person testing over 3 different zf hp21 N54's, with and without level 10 products. I believe the porting Lvl 10 does throws this off. If I do the INPA reset after the drive cycle for engagement points my trans feels peppy and shift just like when I got the valve body.. Its really nice but over time the benefits diminish. Obviously you can't really run this reset too many times as it does cause wear so I just live with it as it is.

There's something else too, but I don't want to start a fight over here again. If anyones interested I have an "interesting" insight into drivability (smoothness) of the AT. PM me.
In the flash map we set the trans ecu to think it's making more torque than it actually is for every pound of boost. For example DMAC is making around 500lb/ft at 23psi, but the trans is observing 600-700lb/ft (depending on which version of the back end flash map he's running), so I'm sure the trans ecu is maxing out its internal mapping. I'd be surprised if they mapped it past 450lb/ft personally.

I don't know what technical effect porting the valve body will have, but we've found that running the modified valve body improves shift performance and trans holding power, over the OEM one, FWIW. It seems to me DMAC has some fundamental defect with his. And for the rest of us I suspect the clutches are just not strong enough for the torque we run. Whether that is a pressure issue or a friction materials issue I can't say but it seems improving materials is the easiest solution.


Burger Motorsports
Home of the JB4 the worlds most popular turbocharged tuning system!

It is the sole responsibility of the purchaser and installer of any BMS part to employ the correct installation techniques required to ensure the proper operation of BMS parts, and BMS disclaims any and all liability for any part failure due to improper installation or use. It is the sole responsibility of the customer to verify that the use of their vehicle and items purchased comply with federal, state and local regulations. BMS claims no legal federal, state or local certification concerning pollution controlled motor vehicles or mandated emissions requirements. BMS products labeled for use only in competition racing vehicles may only be used on competition racing vehicles operated exclusively on a closed course in conjunction with a sanctioned racing event, in accordance with all federal and state laws, and may never be operated on public roads/highways. Please click here for more information on legal requirements related to use of BMS parts.
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(#240)
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Dmac @ BMS/DMD's Avatar
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Default 07-19-2015, 01:16 PM

To be fair, I do think my problem is a somewhat isolated incident as Phuong's is running great from what I've heard. Talking to my mechanic, he thinks there is either:
1) A problem in the valvebody
or
2) One or more of my solenoids are faulty and are opening or closing too slow on shifts

I'll talk to Level 10 Monday and see if they want to cover a solenoid replacement kit/labor. There are only so many things this could be. So far we've eliminated the torque converter and supposedly Level 10 replaced the clutch packs last time I was up there so it shouldn't be those. That leaves stuff in the valvebody and solenoids seem to be the next best candidate as I believe Level 10 only checks to make sure the solenoid opens/closes, not the speed that it happens under load.


2008 135i 4L80E Swap - 807 WHP
VM 6466 Single Turbo Kit | JB4 | BMS Flash via MHD | Fuel-It Stage 3 | BMS Port Injection | E85


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(#241)
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Default 07-19-2015, 01:48 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by robc1976
I think I am going with level 10 valve body and torque converter and call it a day, it go out at least I am not out $7,500

Well Rob, I sure hope that you go straight to the 1000 hp LVL 10 full build as it would be nice to have another n54 in the mix that is pushing over 600 hp. In addition, it would aid in determining whether in fact Donnie's build is an isolated incident. So far, I've had great shifts at every boost level I've targeted. I was on the fence as I've stated previously but I decided to go ahead with the full build which contributes to the n54 community. Whether or not the build lasts, time will tell. My trans went in about a month after Donnie's trans was installed.


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(#242)
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Holshot Holshot is offline
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Default 07-19-2015, 02:13 PM

Hey guys,

Just be careful on your dealings with Level Ten. I come from the Supra would and back in the day prior to the other reputable shops who introduced a automatic tranny that actually worked Level Ten was selling trannies to the auto guys looking for big power. Long story short, type in Level Ten a.k.a Level Zero as they became known on the Supraforums for all the failures and reports of rip offs reported over the years on Supraforums and you'll maybe want to reconsider sending them your hard earned money. They promised big and delivered very little and burnt A LOT of bridges over there and were chased out if there for good.

I've also read in other forums/platforms similar dealings so just be careful. I've personally never used them as all my Supras' were 6spd cars but I had friends who had nothing but problems with their "built" trannies. Luckily the guys over at Boost Logic, Sound Performance and Titan got into the tranny business and then all the rest is history as they say. You auto guys may want to look into the guys who have been there and done that and learn from their power growing pains and go the route the Supra guys went. Maybe those guys could work their magic on your trannies and have similar success like on the Supra stock auto trans. Just food for thought... Good luck regardless!
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(#243)
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Default 07-19-2015, 02:44 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pure Turbos
We were waiting on the outcome of this thread to decide if we were doing a full build on our '08 135i AT.
With these new tables, it might be best to hold for MT swap.


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It is the sole responsibility of the purchaser and installer of any BMS part to employ the correct installation techniques required to ensure the proper operation of BMS parts, and BMS disclaims any and all liability for any part failure due to improper installation or use. It is the sole responsibility of the customer to verify that the use of their vehicle and items purchased comply with federal, state and local regulations. BMS claims no legal federal, state or local certification concerning pollution controlled motor vehicles or mandated emissions requirements. BMS products labeled for use only in competition racing vehicles may only be used on competition racing vehicles operated exclusively on a closed course in conjunction with a sanctioned racing event, in accordance with all federal and state laws, and may never be operated on public roads/highways. Please click here for more information on legal requirements related to use of BMS parts.
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(#244)
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Default 07-19-2015, 02:49 PM

Think Terry hit the nail on the head. Nothing g is actually breaking yet, still just slippin.

I know I sound like a broken record, but your going to need better and or more frictions and steels to increase surface area for holding, upgraded pump to increase volume and pressure supply ability, and a valvebody configured to take advantage of the pump.

If you can't crack the tcu to electronically increase these parameters the work around will have to be mechanical.

I have a bunch on my plate already, but when time permits I will go through the info again on the tranny. I have wondered if it is something as simple as possibly intercepting a pressure sensor signal and sending a modified signal in its place. This would give you some control over the tcu possibly. But I have not looked into it beyond random thoughts... Perhaps someone who has can chime in.
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Default 07-19-2015, 10:16 PM

Hoping you get this sorted out! Sub'ed


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(#246)
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Default 07-20-2015, 06:35 AM

Dmac: with these increased torque values are you getting rough shifts? Is there a noticeable bump? On my car if I turn up the torque values that much I feel like I'm going to ruin my motor mounts over time. I guess you have the upgraded right side mount though being single?
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(#247)
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Zombie1 Zombie1 is offline
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Default 07-20-2015, 11:10 AM

sorry to hear all your troubles are still on going. I've been following this thread and was using this as the deciding factor on what I will be doing with my 135i. This just sucks, seems like no one can crack this stupid TCU. I love my N54 but I'm not willing to buy a single turbo just to destroy a transmission every 3 months. I hope everything works out OP.
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Default 07-21-2015, 01:28 PM

7500 and shotty results, that's no bueno! good luck OP!
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Default I WOULD STAY AS FAR AWAY FROM LEVEL 10 AS POSSIBLE! - 07-21-2015, 01:59 PM

Level 10 failed to take ownership of my transmission problems. Oh and Pat won't talk to me btw (been trying since Friday). Just initiated my dispute of the original $5300 with my bank.

For the record, I was guaranteed a "perfect working" and "worry free" transmission and now they won't even take responsibility for their actions and fix the transmission. Luckily I have incredible records of all of my interactions with Level 10.





Note the highlighted bit:


I WOULD STAY AS FAR AWAY FROM LEVEL 10 AS POSSIBLE! Yea there is a chance that you *may* get a working transmission, but it's not worth this kind of risk.

Whenever this dispute gets settled, I'll be looking into a MT swap since Level 10 is not a viable option in my opinion.


2008 135i 4L80E Swap - 807 WHP
VM 6466 Single Turbo Kit | JB4 | BMS Flash via MHD | Fuel-It Stage 3 | BMS Port Injection | E85


For all JB4 Mobile/Connect Kit requests, email me at: support@jb4connectkit.com

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Default 07-21-2015, 02:21 PM

Man, I really hope they come through and do the right thing here... My hope would be that they are just trying to align internally (how to fix it) before reaching back out to you.

I am also another potential full build customer so I am watching this very closely.

Please keep us posted.


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