N54Tech.com - International Turbo Racing Discussion
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Timmay77 Timmay77 is offline
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Default 2008 535xiT initial throttle delay with JB4 installed - 09-09-2014, 11:02 PM

I recently purchased a 2008 535xiT (auto). I searched the forums and found this thread:

http://www.n54tech.com/forums/showth...sprint+booster

I was hoping for some clarification please.

I installed the JB4 and DCI's for performance gains, but was also hoping it would cure the tip in/initial throttle response issue. It hasn't. I tried adjusting both menus 10 and 12, but they didn't seem to make any difference to me. I also tried the adaptation reset of the transmission.

Is there a back end flash that I could get BMS to do for me?

Is buying a Sprint Booster the best way to cure this?

Any input would be great. I have a million questions, but will do more research on current threads and bug my friends with n54's to answer most of them......

Last edited by Timmay77; 09-10-2014 at 03:56 AM..
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Duperstar Duperstar is offline
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Default 09-10-2014, 05:55 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Timmay77
I recently purchased a 2008 535xiT (auto). I searched the forums and found this thread:

http://www.n54tech.com/forums/showth...sprint+booster

I was hoping for some clarification please.

I installed the JB4 and DCI's for performance gains, but was also hoping it would cure the tip in/initial throttle response issue. It hasn't. I tried adjusting both menus 10 and 12, but they didn't seem to make any difference to me. I also tried the adaptation reset of the transmission.

Is there a back end flash that I could get BMS to do for me?

Is buying a Sprint Booster the best way to cure this?

Any input would be great. I have a million questions, but will do more research on current threads and bug my friends with n54's to answer most of them......
I have found that installing the BMS pump flash made the off idle acceleration and throttle feel much better. It may be anecdotal, but i feel it. I think there is a bit more timing low in the rpm range and it helps. If you're hesitant about getting the Bavtech cable, it's worth it for way more that the flash you can do with it. HTH.

http://www.n54tech.com/forums/showthread.php?t=20563


2009 535xi - JB4 G5 ISO -BMS Race Flash- BMS Intake - ER CP- Forge DVs- Active Autowerke intercooler- Gone

Activehybrid 3 - JB4 EWG/OBD- CTS Turbo Intake- VRSF CP- Bavsound Stage 1- current
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hp jnkey hp jnkey is offline
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Default 09-10-2014, 09:07 AM

Get yourself a Sprint Booster and set it on the high setting [ Red ]

A lot of people laugh at this mod and think it's a joke but
trust me, it works.

Check the forums for others who have installed them.
Was a guy with a 545 who just raved about it after he put one in.
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b0xdesigns b0xdesigns is offline
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Default 09-23-2014, 06:05 PM

Get the pedal box from MotiveMods.com

Pedal feel is so much better.
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skysurfer skysurfer is offline
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Default 09-23-2014, 07:53 PM

Do what HP mentioned

I place mine on RED all the time and I have made over 450hp, well you get my point

Trust us, it's no joke


2008 BMW 535i
JB4 G5, BMS Pump Flash, ( Updated FW ), DCI,
Eisenmann Race Exhaust
ER CP
E60 DP
450 HP / 480 TQ ( when running AEM 320, 50% E85 )
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=51z_sELokzk
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ucsbwsr ucsbwsr is offline
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Default 10-07-2014, 09:22 AM

Weird,

I have a FBO 535xi Wagon and am suffering from the same throttle lag. I have adjusted Map 10/12 with no improvement to my problem. It is strictly related to throttle tip-in so wastegate adjustments are after the fact.

I also have a Sprintbooster installed which does not help the issue. I feel the SB adjusts the power delivery per pedal input (as advertised) and almost makes my issue worse since my tip-in delay still exists and becomes showcased as the delay is followed by a more aggressive surge of power.

I also flushed my ATF x2 and changed the pan/filter, upgraded the software, and reset the adaptive learning multiple times. These last 3 things listed probably yielded the most improvement to my issue but it still exists.

Backend flashes seem to help from what I have gathered. I read that *****s flash had much improved throttle response but I was not sure if that response is tip-in or more similar to the surge felt with a SB.

Someday this AT will crap out and I will promptly swap a 6-spd Getrag unit in it's place and solve all my issues.

Evan


N54 Powered M5 Wagon:
- M5 Driveshaft, M5 LSD, M5 Axles, M5 Brakes, M5 Rear Suspension
- M5 Front End, M5 skirts, M5 Mirrors, M-Tech Rep Rear
- KW V3, RD Sport Sways, UR Strut Braces, Forgestar F14 SDC
- Manual Trans Swap, MFactory SMFW, Spec Stg 3+ Clutch, UUC SSK
- EOS Port Injection Manifold, Fuel-It: Stg 2 LPFP +Lines +Ethanol Sensor
- JB4, Hexon RR550s, Custom Inlets, AR ***, 3" Exhaust, VRSF 7" IC, ER CP, Tial BOV, RB Ext. PCV, BMS OCC
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Timmay77 Timmay77 is offline
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Default 10-08-2014, 11:17 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by ucsbwsr
Weird,

I have a FBO 535xi Wagon and am suffering from the same throttle lag. I have adjusted Map 10/12 with no improvement to my problem. It is strictly related to throttle tip-in so wastegate adjustments are after the fact.

I also have a Sprintbooster installed which does not help the issue. I feel the SB adjusts the power delivery per pedal input (as advertised) and almost makes my issue worse since my tip-in delay still exists and becomes showcased as the delay is followed by a more aggressive surge of power.

I also flushed my ATF x2 and changed the pan/filter, upgraded the software, and reset the adaptive learning multiple times. These last 3 things listed probably yielded the most improvement to my issue but it still exists.

Backend flashes seem to help from what I have gathered. I read that *****s flash had much improved throttle response but I was not sure if that response is tip-in or more similar to the surge felt with a SB.

Someday this AT will crap out and I will promptly swap a 6-spd Getrag unit in it's place and solve all my issues.

Evan
At least I know I'm not crazy.....

What software did you upgrade to?

I also don't fully understand the "backend flash" though I've read that thread 5 times.......


2014 328i xDrive Msport
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abailey269 abailey269 is offline
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Default 12-03-2014, 07:11 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Timmay77
At least I know I'm not crazy.....

What software did you upgrade to?

I also don't fully understand the "backend flash" though I've read that thread 5 times.......
Info on the free backend flash can be found here:
http://www.n54tech.com/forums/showpo...15&postcount=1

You need a BT cable (about $175 iirc, can't remember what I paid for it) and a laptop. They have flashes for all kinds of fuel types and other tweaks that a JB4 or COBB alone can't control. Pretty cool stuff.


2008 535i 6AT | JB4 G5, DCI, ER FMIC, ER CP, VRSF ***, e70 mix, BMS 2.3 Gal Meth Kit, Custom Trebila Flash, FuelIt Stage2 LPFP

432rwhp 466rwtq
12.7@115mph, 2.1 60' on Toyo All Seasons. Boost limited to 12psi in second, 19 in 3rd & 4th.
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ucsbwsr ucsbwsr is offline
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Default 12-03-2014, 07:43 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Timmay77
At least I know I'm not crazy.....

What software did you upgrade to?

I also don't fully understand the "backend flash" though I've read that thread 5 times.......
Sorry, just saw this, only 2 months late.

I upgraded to the software found on late 535i and 550i equipped with the Sport Automatic Transmission (SAT). In WinKFP it is 7601458. You get faster shifts in S and M mode and also a gear read out (S1, S2, S3, etc.) while in sport where it previously only displayed S.

This is different than the sport button, which increases steering resistance and opens the valve in the exhaust. I have removed the stock muffler from my car (when I did have it I bypassed the valve with my JB4) and don't need any extra steering resistance as I have an xi wagon and the front drivetrain adds enough resistance for my liking.

Hope this helps, if you want more info, feel free to PM me.

Evan


N54 Powered M5 Wagon:
- M5 Driveshaft, M5 LSD, M5 Axles, M5 Brakes, M5 Rear Suspension
- M5 Front End, M5 skirts, M5 Mirrors, M-Tech Rep Rear
- KW V3, RD Sport Sways, UR Strut Braces, Forgestar F14 SDC
- Manual Trans Swap, MFactory SMFW, Spec Stg 3+ Clutch, UUC SSK
- EOS Port Injection Manifold, Fuel-It: Stg 2 LPFP +Lines +Ethanol Sensor
- JB4, Hexon RR550s, Custom Inlets, AR ***, 3" Exhaust, VRSF 7" IC, ER CP, Tial BOV, RB Ext. PCV, BMS OCC
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abailey269 abailey269 is offline
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Default 12-03-2014, 07:57 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by ucsbwsr
Sorry, just saw this, only 2 months late.

I upgraded to the software found on late 535i and 550i equipped with the Sport Automatic Transmission (SAT). In WinKFP it is 7601458. You get faster shifts in S and M mode and also a gear read out (S1, S2, S3, etc.) while in sport where it previously only displayed S.

This is different than the sport button, which increases steering resistance and opens the valve in the exhaust. I have removed the stock muffler from my car (when I did have it I bypassed the valve with my JB4) and don't need any extra steering resistance as I have an xi wagon and the front drivetrain adds enough resistance for my liking.

Hope this helps, if you want more info, feel free to PM me.

Evan
Awesome find, will definitely be giving that flash a try! Thanks for sharing


2008 535i 6AT | JB4 G5, DCI, ER FMIC, ER CP, VRSF ***, e70 mix, BMS 2.3 Gal Meth Kit, Custom Trebila Flash, FuelIt Stage2 LPFP

432rwhp 466rwtq
12.7@115mph, 2.1 60' on Toyo All Seasons. Boost limited to 12psi in second, 19 in 3rd & 4th.
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ucsbwsr ucsbwsr is offline
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Default 12-03-2014, 08:06 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by abailey269
Awesome find, will definitely be giving that flash a try! Thanks for sharing
Sure thing, the flash is an improvement but that is like placing a flower in a pile of poo and calling it an improvement, a real improvement would be 3 pedals. Unfortunately everyone and their housewives ordered these with the no-cost 6AT option from the factory.... I hate this 6AT with a passion, especially with a tuned N54 producing a wall of torque that can never me exploited because the transmission downshifts when all you wanted to do is squeeze the throttle and let the twist take care of the rest.

I have already started researching the parts needed for a manual tranny swap. It is going to be a ton of work but totally worth it.


N54 Powered M5 Wagon:
- M5 Driveshaft, M5 LSD, M5 Axles, M5 Brakes, M5 Rear Suspension
- M5 Front End, M5 skirts, M5 Mirrors, M-Tech Rep Rear
- KW V3, RD Sport Sways, UR Strut Braces, Forgestar F14 SDC
- Manual Trans Swap, MFactory SMFW, Spec Stg 3+ Clutch, UUC SSK
- EOS Port Injection Manifold, Fuel-It: Stg 2 LPFP +Lines +Ethanol Sensor
- JB4, Hexon RR550s, Custom Inlets, AR ***, 3" Exhaust, VRSF 7" IC, ER CP, Tial BOV, RB Ext. PCV, BMS OCC
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abailey269 abailey269 is offline
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Default 12-04-2014, 07:32 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by ucsbwsr
Sure thing, the flash is an improvement but that is like placing a flower in a pile of poo and calling it an improvement, a real improvement would be 3 pedals. Unfortunately everyone and their housewives ordered these with the no-cost 6AT option from the factory.... I hate this 6AT with a passion, especially with a tuned N54 producing a wall of torque that can never me exploited because the transmission downshifts when all you wanted to do is squeeze the throttle and let the twist take care of the rest.

I have already started researching the parts needed for a manual tranny swap. It is going to be a ton of work but totally worth it.
Couldn't agree more. This is the first sporty car I've owned without 3 pedals. Just need to make the best of it I guess. Hope these small tweaks will help tide us over for a bit. I'm sure you did the kick down blocker already:

http://www.n54tech.com/forums/showthread.php?t=17569


2008 535i 6AT | JB4 G5, DCI, ER FMIC, ER CP, VRSF ***, e70 mix, BMS 2.3 Gal Meth Kit, Custom Trebila Flash, FuelIt Stage2 LPFP

432rwhp 466rwtq
12.7@115mph, 2.1 60' on Toyo All Seasons. Boost limited to 12psi in second, 19 in 3rd & 4th.
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ucsbwsr ucsbwsr is offline
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Default 12-04-2014, 10:04 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by abailey269
Couldn't agree more. This is the first sporty car I've owned without 3 pedals. Just need to make the best of it I guess. Hope these small tweaks will help tide us over for a bit. I'm sure you did the kick down blocker already:

http://www.n54tech.com/forums/showthread.php?t=17569
I have not installed the blockers yet but that is the extreme of what I am talking about as those stop downshifts while at 100% throttle and I am looking to alleviate downshifts when pedal is in the 50-80% range, as far as I know there is no solution

Regarding those blockers: I am curious to see what kind of 0-60 times I can pull with them installed and doing 2nd gear launches ....my poor drivetrain. My E61 is an xi and usually brake-boost to 2,300 rpm for best results but my goodness is the 1-2 shift painfully slow even with the faster SAT software.

Even with that handicap my wagon consistently puts down 4.0-4.3 sprints to 60 (even in the wet) and has done a few 3.8 and 3.9s. Not bad for a station wagon!

Evan


N54 Powered M5 Wagon:
- M5 Driveshaft, M5 LSD, M5 Axles, M5 Brakes, M5 Rear Suspension
- M5 Front End, M5 skirts, M5 Mirrors, M-Tech Rep Rear
- KW V3, RD Sport Sways, UR Strut Braces, Forgestar F14 SDC
- Manual Trans Swap, MFactory SMFW, Spec Stg 3+ Clutch, UUC SSK
- EOS Port Injection Manifold, Fuel-It: Stg 2 LPFP +Lines +Ethanol Sensor
- JB4, Hexon RR550s, Custom Inlets, AR ***, 3" Exhaust, VRSF 7" IC, ER CP, Tial BOV, RB Ext. PCV, BMS OCC
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abailey269 abailey269 is offline
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Default 12-04-2014, 10:33 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by ucsbwsr
I have not installed the blockers yet but that is the extreme of what I am talking about as those stop downshifts while at 100% throttle and I am looking to alleviate downshifts when pedal is in the 50-80% range, as far as I know there is no solution

Regarding those blockers: I am curious to see what kind of 0-60 times I can pull with them installed and doing 2nd gear launches ....my poor drivetrain. My E61 is an xi and usually brake-boost to 2,300 rpm for best results but my goodness is the 1-2 shift painfully slow even with the faster SAT software.

Even with that handicap my wagon consistently puts down 4.0-4.3 sprints to 60 (even in the wet) and has done a few 3.8 and 3.9s. Not bad for a station wagon!

Evan
I've seen some of the guys here on the boards with xi's posting 1.7-1.8 60' times doing 2nd gear launches from about 3,000 rpms (with the kick down blockers of course).


2008 535i 6AT | JB4 G5, DCI, ER FMIC, ER CP, VRSF ***, e70 mix, BMS 2.3 Gal Meth Kit, Custom Trebila Flash, FuelIt Stage2 LPFP

432rwhp 466rwtq
12.7@115mph, 2.1 60' on Toyo All Seasons. Boost limited to 12psi in second, 19 in 3rd & 4th.
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ucsbwsr ucsbwsr is offline
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Default 12-04-2014, 10:40 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by abailey269
I've seen some of the guys here on the boards with xi's posting 1.7-1.8 60' times doing 2nd gear launches from about 3,000 rpms (with the kick down blockers of course).
Sorry, I should have been clear, I was talking about 0-60mph. Good to see xi cars moving nonetheless.


N54 Powered M5 Wagon:
- M5 Driveshaft, M5 LSD, M5 Axles, M5 Brakes, M5 Rear Suspension
- M5 Front End, M5 skirts, M5 Mirrors, M-Tech Rep Rear
- KW V3, RD Sport Sways, UR Strut Braces, Forgestar F14 SDC
- Manual Trans Swap, MFactory SMFW, Spec Stg 3+ Clutch, UUC SSK
- EOS Port Injection Manifold, Fuel-It: Stg 2 LPFP +Lines +Ethanol Sensor
- JB4, Hexon RR550s, Custom Inlets, AR ***, 3" Exhaust, VRSF 7" IC, ER CP, Tial BOV, RB Ext. PCV, BMS OCC
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abailey269 abailey269 is offline
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Default 12-04-2014, 11:40 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by ucsbwsr
Sorry, I should have been clear, I was talking about 0-60mph. Good to see xi cars moving nonetheless.
We're on the same page, I knew you meant 0-60 times. A faster 60ft should net you even quicker 0-60 time. I was saying that, from what other xi users are saying, a launch around 3,000 RPMs in 2nd with the kick down mod should get you a better 60ft, which would lead to an even faster 0-60 =)


2008 535i 6AT | JB4 G5, DCI, ER FMIC, ER CP, VRSF ***, e70 mix, BMS 2.3 Gal Meth Kit, Custom Trebila Flash, FuelIt Stage2 LPFP

432rwhp 466rwtq
12.7@115mph, 2.1 60' on Toyo All Seasons. Boost limited to 12psi in second, 19 in 3rd & 4th.
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ucsbwsr ucsbwsr is offline
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Default 12-08-2014, 10:18 AM

Timmay77:

First of all, knowing what you did to our E39 it is best you accept that fact that your wagon will be FBO in the future. It is inevitable. That being said start keeping an eye out for a set of AR *** since they are the only option for our cars and are hard to come by, and often carry a price premium unless you are lucky. You may have had intention of the E61 being your "practical" family car or daily driver, and it will be, but it will also be really fast. Speaking of practical, my E61 can net 20/30mpg in FBO form.


Back to Throttle Delay:

I have heard some of the stand-alone flashes like *****'s (one of his earlier creations) offered better throttle response and I was curious to try myself but this particular flash was pretty aggressive and I didn't want to start programing my car with stuff I didn't truly understand so my plan was to wait until someone offered a stand-alone flash which offered great response but was built on a more mild tune. In the past year by search efforts have tapered off.

It still seems odd that some people have a night and day improvement with the Sprint Booster and some (myself included) it makes no improvement in the issue. The SB does work immediately once the throttle responds but when they do, it is already too late. The delay from when I press the gas pedal to when the engine (and SB) respond is what I want to eliminate and since it is an electronic throttle and everything is controlled by computers there must be some way to adjust the tolerances.

Maybe it is best we reach out to people who are actively making stand-alone tunes for the N54 and see if they know of any tricks that can help us.

In the meantime I may play around with different JB4 maps and the SB to see if I can narrow down the issue. I have noticed that the car is smoother in power delivery and slightly quicker to respond when the JB4 is deactivated but I have never ran the SB with JB4 off. Maybe I will see the huge improvement in response with the JB4 and SB in red?
Map 5 and SB off is where I spend most of my time.

Evan


N54 Powered M5 Wagon:
- M5 Driveshaft, M5 LSD, M5 Axles, M5 Brakes, M5 Rear Suspension
- M5 Front End, M5 skirts, M5 Mirrors, M-Tech Rep Rear
- KW V3, RD Sport Sways, UR Strut Braces, Forgestar F14 SDC
- Manual Trans Swap, MFactory SMFW, Spec Stg 3+ Clutch, UUC SSK
- EOS Port Injection Manifold, Fuel-It: Stg 2 LPFP +Lines +Ethanol Sensor
- JB4, Hexon RR550s, Custom Inlets, AR ***, 3" Exhaust, VRSF 7" IC, ER CP, Tial BOV, RB Ext. PCV, BMS OCC
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