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Default My Level 10 Rebuild Thread - 04-17-2015, 11:12 AM

Hey guys the time has finally come. My trans has started to refuse to shift at higher boost levels so I'm getting a full Level 10 rebuild. There aren't too many review threads out there for a Level 10 rebuild so I'm going to be completely transparent with everything good or bad. I'll be updating this thread as I get more info.

4/16/15 - Talked to Dave at Level 10 and scheduled to have the transmission picked up Monday (4/20/15). Dave has been super responsive to my questions while I was determining what route to go so thanks Dave! For the fixed amount of the rebuild, they handle everything from arranging the pickup of the transmission to shipping it back.

4/17/15 - Dropped the car off at SR Performance to have the transmission pulled.

Ready to be picked up Monday.

4/20/15 - Transmission is on its way to Level 10.

4/23/15 - Level 10 has received the transmission and hopes to have it shipped back out Monday. Looks like the total cost for the upgrade and shipping is $5300.

Found the log from when the stock transmission didn't shift. CSV is attached. Looks like I hit 7400 rpm!!



5/1/15 - Transmission is back at SR Performance. Looks like it will be going back in Monday. BTW did you know you have to get $400 worth of transmission fluid?!


5/4/15 - I have the car back now and it drives great. Still breaking it in for another 60 miles so I'll be hammering on it later tonight. First impression is the slightly higher stall (300-500 rpm) feels nice and isn't too noticeable. All of the gear shifts are quick, but I notice that 4th->5th feels slightly softer and takes slightly longer than the other gears. Maybe it's where I'm shifting under light load while breaking it in? Idk. I'll post more tonight.

Failed 3rd to 4th shift at only 20psi (log attached)... This better clear up with an adaption reset.



5/5/15 - Ok, so the transmission has had more time to adapt and things are looking better. Been dealing with an unrelated overboost problem, but the transmission handled a shift at around 30psi so there's that at least. lol. The higher stall is REALLY cool. I'll take some good videos later this week, but just taking off from a stop the car basically immediately revs past 2k and gets going.

FYI I didn't end up needing to reset adaptions, I just lowered boost, started doing pulls, then slowly started raising boost.



6/2/15 - Alright, I've been very patient and understanding so far, but that is about to change. I'm STILL experiencing bad shifts where the rpms climb and then slowly fall back to where they are supposed to be. Also guess what, MORE FAILED SHIFTS. Funny thing is, it seems to be completely random. Sometimes it shifts fine, sometimes it has a weird shift, and sometimes it fails to shift completely.

This is what a weird shift looks and sounds like:


Here's another one with a failed shift at the end:


Level 10 for some reason is calling this a "software/tuning issue". It's obviously not or I would have been experiencing the weird shift on the stock transmission (which I never did). I've sent them videos, logs, had multiple calls, and still Pat thinks it's a "software/tuning issue". I'm expecting a direct call from Pat later today so we'll see what happens.

I've attached new logs of bad shifts and failed shifts. My impression right now is wait and do a MT or 4L80E swap.

6/13/15 - Level 10 has finally acknowledged that there is a hardware problem with my transmission. It threw a 4F85 (Gear Transmission Ratio E) code during a single 5th gear pull. I've attached the log below (D7 M2 Proof log). The transmission either slipped very bad or just completely fell out of gear as the car was stuck in 2nd the rest of the drive home. I spoke with Ryan today who was very helpful. We will be arranging either to have my transmission removed/shipped or I will drive the car up to them (10 hour drive 1 way) provided they cover expenses. We are scheduled to finalize some info Monday. I'm really hoping that everything works out this time and that this does turn out to be a viable 6AT solution.

6/22/15 - I'm here at Level 10 in New Jersey. Car is dropped off and they're pulling the tranny. I'll hopefully have some positive news over the next day or 2. They've been really helpful so far and even offered me a car to drive while we're up here.

6/24/15 - Well guys I'm heading home from New Jersey. Level 10 has been really helpful while I was up here, they even gave me a loaner car to drive. They took my trans apart, went through everything, and rebuilt the whole thing (minus the torque converter). Didn't see an issue with the hardware. Pat and I drove around A LOT and the "weird shift" issue was still there. After going over logs and videos for awhile, we finally noticed a pattern to my "weird shifts". It seems that once they start to fall they fall an amount that is strangely close to what the stall is on my torque converter. So after another rebuild and having the same issues as before, I found out they had to reuse my original (built) torque converter. So Pat is ordering a new one from BMW, building it, and shipping it to me. I'm hoping to get it installed next week and REALLY hoping that fixes the problem. I'll post back when I have more details.

7/8/15 - Been discussing things with Level 10 and all I can say is now that we're on the same page, they have truly gone the extra mile to help me get a working transmission. In my particular case they are going as far as covering the labor for the new torque converter install at my local mechanic's shop. This is how a company truly takes care of their customer in a situation like this! Pat really is a nice guy who wants to get this resolved as much as I do. I'm supposed to hear back from them again Friday with more details about the torque converter so I'll report back here when I do.

7/18/15 - After nearly a month I've received the new torque converter from Level 10. New torque converter is installed and still the same problems. Idk what Level 10 did to my transmission, but I can't even get solid shifts at 23psi where my stock transmission was completely fine. Yes I have PLENTY of logs to back that statement up. I'll be contacting Pat Monday to see how he wants to resolve this as I am beyond frustrated at this point. Oh I've still not received the reimbursement for my travel expenses up there like I was promised and haven't received the reimbursement for the labor like I was promised.

As of now I've spent nearly $7500 on this transmission build trying to get it working and have NOTHING to show for it. This transmission in my car is worse than my stock transmission ever was.

Here is a link to the email conversations I've had with Level 10. I'll be updating it as I get more time as there are a lot more threads to screenshot. Level 10 Email Thread

7/21/15 - Level 10 failed to take ownership of my transmission problems. Oh and Pat won't talk to me btw (been trying since Friday). Just initiated my dispute of the original $5300 with my bank.

For the record, I was guaranteed a "perfect working" and "worry free" transmission and now they won't even take responsibility for their actions and fix the transmission. Luckily I have incredible records of all of my interactions with Level 10.



I WOULD STAY AS FAR AWAY FROM LEVEL 10 AS POSSIBLE! Yea there is a chance that you *may* get a working transmission, but it's not worth this kind of risk.

Whenever this dispute gets settled, I'll be looking into a MT swap since Level 10 is not a viable option in my opinion.

This is a comparison of a proper shift and a "weird" shift.




8/8/15 - Decided to take a chance and swap the solenoids and guess what...

THE WEIRD SHIFTS ARE GONE!!! The only problem that remains is that the car won't hold 5th gear. 1-2,2-3,3-4 are all fine, but 4-5 slips back into 4th. I'm going to assume this is probably an issue with the clutches as I received a gear ratio monitoring code not too long ago. But this PROVES that the issue was hardware related all along. On Monday I'm going to give Level 10 a call and offer them a chance to make this right. If they want me to drop the dispute/chargeback, I want to be FULLY reimbursed for all of my travel, parts, and labor it took for me to fix something that they should have replaced a long time ago. I'll post video proof that the "weird shift" is currently gone later and will update this thread again on Monday when I speak with them.

Video proof:


8/11/15 - I've decided to start recording my phone calls for better record-keeping and complete transparency of my experience with Level 10. According to my research Kentucky and New Jersey are "one party consent" states, meaning as long as 1 person (myself) gives consent, the recording is perfectly legal. I've posted my 3 phone calls with Level 10 since Monday at the bottom of my webpage. If I come across as a jerk in the recordings, sorry. I've been getting the run-around from Level 10 since April.

http://dmacpro91.com/LevelTenSaga/

Edit: I've removed the recordings from my website temporarily. If you're truly interested in hearing how Level 10 handles their phone conversations, pm me.

9/25/15 - Oh boy do I have some interesting news!!!

So I spoke with my case worker yesterday and heard Level 10's response to the dispute.

1) They say I've loaded "custom" software onto the transmission. Hahahaha. Really?!? I've somehow cracked the TCU's encryption and written custom software for it? Yea, they're not talking about the Alpina flash (which everyone uses), they're saying I actually made a custom flash for the transmission and that is what is wrong with it. I'm good with software and hardware to a point, but that is well beyond anything I'm capable of.

2) They say they didn't see proof of a 3rd party mechanic validating the problems even though that's what my case worker sent out to them in the first packet. I have a letter from the mechanic that does the work on my car (did my ST install, LSD install, and trans install) validating that the problem is related to the work Level 10 did on the transmission.

Please everyone just do yourself a favor and STAY AWAY FROM LEVEL 10. They are actually making up lies now to try to get out of refunding me for their shoddy work. I'm truly appalled by their actions in this situation.

10/11/15 - Manual swap thread can be found here: http://www.n54tech.com/forums/showthread.php?t=34171


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For all JB4 Mobile/Connect Kit requests, email me at: support@jb4connectkit.com

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Last edited by Dmac @ BMS/DMD; 08-03-2017 at 12:13 PM..
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ajm8127 ajm8127 is offline
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Default 04-17-2015, 05:25 PM

No one has a problem spending hundreds if not thousands on the engine/suspension/brakes, but you realy hear of people doing anything for the transmission like cooling or oil temp monitoring.

Good luck with Level 10. How much torque are you trying to put through the transmission?
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Default 04-17-2015, 06:00 PM

I've been really happy with mine. You're going to love it.


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It is the sole responsibility of the purchaser and installer of any BMS part to employ the correct installation techniques required to ensure the proper operation of BMS parts, and BMS disclaims any and all liability for any part failure due to improper installation or use. It is the sole responsibility of the customer to verify that the use of their vehicle and items purchased comply with federal, state and local regulations. BMS claims no legal federal, state or local certification concerning pollution controlled motor vehicles or mandated emissions requirements. BMS products labeled for use only in competition racing vehicles may only be used on competition racing vehicles operated exclusively on a closed course in conjunction with a sanctioned racing event, in accordance with all federal and state laws, and may never be operated on public roads/highways. Please click here for more information on legal requirements related to use of BMS parts.
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Default 04-17-2015, 06:01 PM

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Dmac @ BMS/DMD's Avatar
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Default 04-17-2015, 06:49 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by ajm8127
No one has a problem spending hundreds if not thousands on the engine/suspension/brakes, but you realy hear of people doing anything for the transmission like cooling or oil temp monitoring.

Good luck with Level 10. How much torque are you trying to put through the transmission?
Thanks.

At 28 psi it was putting down around 515wtq. After I get the car back and fix a weird high pressure fuel issue, I'll be finding out where the Comp 6262 maxes out.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Terry @ BMS
I've been really happy with mine. You're going to love it.
As long as it holds the power it'll be well worth the price to me.


2008 135i 4L80E Swap - 807 WHP
VM 6466 Single Turbo Kit | JB4 | BMS Flash via MHD | Fuel-It Stage 3 | BMS Port Injection | E85


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Default 04-17-2015, 08:39 PM

Terry or anyone else with the complete transmission is there any loss of daily day to day shift smoothness. I really like the fact that driving around I cant feel my transmission shift. I dont want to lose that smooth as butter feel.
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Default 04-17-2015, 09:02 PM

What options are available and ballpark cost involved ?


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Default 04-17-2015, 10:31 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by firemanjust1
What options are available and ballpark cost involved ?
http://www.levelten.com/mobile/Category.aspx?id=29

Congratulations OP. I've heard great things about Level 10.
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sch4400 sch4400 is offline
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Default 04-18-2015, 06:37 AM

what options did you do?
I really want to do that. but I'm not in usa. so I will send them only the VB to upgrade. also buy rebuild kit and torque converter.

so please keep updating.
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Default 04-18-2015, 07:56 AM

If you can go in person to their shop, in south New Jersey the prices are cheaper then on the website.

@Terry @ando someone.... have you lost some smoothness we just puttering around, my 335 is my daily so I don't want the Trans to become to aggressive when I'm just driving around town. Plus transmission jerkiness just annoys me to no end.
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Default 04-18-2015, 08:10 AM

They quoted me $4,885 for the rebuild .He says good up to 1000 hp. That I have to see.
If true I will put a Motiv750 .This motors hold almost 800 in stock trim.
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Default 04-18-2015, 12:35 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by sch4400
what options did you do?
I really want to do that. but I'm not in usa. so I will send them only the VB to upgrade. also buy rebuild kit and torque converter.

so please keep updating.
I'll let you know as soon as I get a finalized rundown of what I'm getting.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nniftyfour
If you can go in person to their shop, in south New Jersey the prices are cheaper then on the website.

@Terry @ando someone.... have you lost some smoothness we just puttering around, my 335 is my daily so I don't want the Trans to become to aggressive when I'm just driving around town. Plus transmission jerkiness just annoys me to no end.
Little questions like that are why I'm making this thread. I want to find an answer to almost every question one would have about the Level 10 rebuild.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Race8877
They quoted me $4,885 for the rebuild .He says good up to 1000 hp. That I have to see.
If true I will put a Motiv750 .This motors hold almost 800 in stock trim.
I told them I just needed it to reliably hold 700wtq. I'm not going to be pushing that much torque anytime in the near future so I should have a good safety buffer with the 550-600wtq I will be running.


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VM 6466 Single Turbo Kit | JB4 | BMS Flash via MHD | Fuel-It Stage 3 | BMS Port Injection | E85


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Default 04-18-2015, 12:51 PM

Thank you for making the thread. To date I am not sure how well the upgrade holds or what kind of power can be pushed. If this works for you I may be keeping my 35 for longer.


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Default 04-18-2015, 01:27 PM

Subscribed.


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Default 04-18-2015, 02:29 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Terry @ BMS
I've been really happy with mine. You're going to love it.
What kind of turbo do you use that level 10 kit with ?


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Default 04-18-2015, 03:32 PM

With level 10 you should have no problem holding anywhere from 550hp to 750hp with an
AT.
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Default 04-18-2015, 03:58 PM

Had mine for over 50000 km and np. Will see how it holds the ST


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Default 04-18-2015, 06:42 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nniftyfour
If you can go in person to their shop, in south New Jersey the prices are cheaper then on the website.

@Terry @ando someone.... have you lost some smoothness we just puttering around, my 335 is my daily so I don't want the Trans to become to aggressive when I'm just driving around town. Plus transmission jerkiness just annoys me to no end.
I've driven Terrys car with the built tranny and it is a tad more aggressive. The shifts are more solid. The car overall doesn't feel different in driving. You'd notice it for a couple days and that's it.

I remember Ando said the same thing when we upgraded his Valve Body for him, but it did not hold up to the 600+lbs torque he threw at it.


Burger Motorsports
Home of the Worlds fastest N20s, N54s, N55s, S55s, N63s, and S63s!

It is the sole responsibility of the purchaser and installer of any BMS part to employ the correct installation techniques required to ensure the proper operation of BMS parts, and BMS disclaims any and all liability for any part failure due to improper installation or use. It is the sole responsibility of the customer to verify that the use of their vehicle and items purchased comply with federal, state and local regulations. BMS claims no legal federal, state or local certification concerning pollution controlled motor vehicles or mandated emissions requirements. BMS products labeled for use only in competition racing vehicles may only be used on competition racing vehicles operated exclusively on a closed course in conjunction with a sanctioned racing event, in accordance with all federal and state laws, and may never be operated on public roads/highways. Please click here for more information on legal requirements related to use of BMS parts.
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Default 04-19-2015, 11:53 AM

you will love it... this is my 1000hp Level10
Attached Images
 


Coming soon.
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Default 04-19-2015, 01:05 PM

Can't wait to hear more...


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Default 04-19-2015, 01:26 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by 4doorbmwpower
you will love it... this is my 1000hp Level10
Nice! Really can't wait to get mine back.


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Default 04-19-2015, 01:55 PM

Everybody talks about level 10 but for gods sake someone say something the most important part of that upgrade. How will be a tranny able to hold up 550-750 hp ? I mean after how much steps ?? Level 10 upgrades includes torque convertor, valve body , and internals ? Because , we all know that ando blew his tranny off just because he just did only the one of those three steps ( as I know it was valve body )
Built from scratch or which one of them is more reasonable to have ?
Thanks in advance.


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Default 04-19-2015, 01:59 PM

This is great,looking forward to results.this was the only reason I haven't pulled the trigger on big horsepower for autos.Level 10 isn't that far away from me so,may drop in to check the place out. Good luck dmacpro91.


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Default 04-19-2015, 02:02 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by cebrailbakan
Everybody talks about level 10 but for gods sake someone say something the most important part of that upgrade. How will be a tranny able to hold up 550-750 hp ? I mean after how much steps ?? Level 10 upgrades includes torque convertor, valve body , and internals ? Because , we all know that ando blew his tranny off just because he just did only the one of those three steps ( as I know it was valve body )
Built from scratch or which one of them is more reasonable to have ?
Thanks in advance.
http://www.levelten.com/mobile/Category.aspx?id=29
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135pats 135pats is offline
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Default 04-19-2015, 02:25 PM

I'll be following this one closely - nicely done op! Thanks for documenting everything so thoroughly.
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