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NJz NJz is offline
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Default Let the speculation begin... What was done to these? - 09-02-2014, 04:05 PM

http://www.bimmerboost.com/showthrea...524#post590524

605 whp so far on stock frames. I know there are many interested in this over on bimmerboost. What has been done to these warlocks to hold boost so well?
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Default 09-02-2014, 04:17 PM

thought it was 605whp? this was exactly what I was waiting for and the reason I didn't buy RBs. 600+whp is actually worth it to spend 3+ grand!
If they produce these, I know what my winter project will be this year!


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Default 09-02-2014, 04:41 PM

No idea what was done to 'em, but I want a set. Been following the thread since its creation--it's good to see someone bringing new ideas to the platform. RB has been in cruise mode for a while and Vargas--well, if you can't say anything nice...
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Default 09-02-2014, 04:48 PM

I hear some new stuff is in the works on the RB front.


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Default 09-02-2014, 05:17 PM

Orly!
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Default 09-02-2014, 05:18 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Terry @ BMS
I hear some new stuff is in the works on the RB front.
Heard Vargas was as well. Hope its not to long before we see some results!


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Default 09-02-2014, 05:23 PM

I would love to see 650whp from upgraded twins, with a meaty torque band.
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Default 09-02-2014, 05:29 PM

yeah same, that is roughly the power I am looking for. 650whp would be quite a step from the current "max hp" stock frames 515ish IIRC.
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Default 09-02-2014, 05:37 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by NJz
yeah same, that is roughly the power I am looking for. 650whp would be quite a step from the current "max hp" stock frames 515ish IIRC.
Yeah 600+whp mark is finally somewhat fast and im willing to pull the trigger on a set of those. I bet these could pull on some of those ST 335s!


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Last edited by natedog7700; 09-02-2014 at 05:50 PM..
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Default 09-02-2014, 05:42 PM

There would be less tuning issues for sure.
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Default 09-02-2014, 06:52 PM

You can bet your @ss they won't be $3K anymore. R&D is expensive especially to produce those power levels let alone the equipment required to produce them.
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Default 09-03-2014, 02:48 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by AUbeast86
You can bet your @ss they won't be $3K anymore. R&D is expensive especially to produce those power levels let alone the equipment required to produce them.
true, plus unless you have a built 6at or a 6mt with a good clutch, these power levels would not play nicely with either transmission


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Default 09-03-2014, 07:32 AM

For non-built 6AT, single turbo should be the better option since the torque doesn't come in as strong


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Default 09-03-2014, 09:00 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by triggz
For non-built 6AT, single turbo should be the better option since the torque doesn't come in as strong
Level 10 rebuild kit for 900$ and call it a day!


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Default 09-04-2014, 04:59 AM

i heard vargas beat the current 600/600 WR yesterday and he is releasing more info in this product and what comes with it, eta, etc, TODAY!
stay tuned my friends and i hope ROB does something similar SOON
after seen this thread a couple days ago i had already planned to remove my RBs and take it to a local turbo company to fit bigger wheels and see what their output was on what I needed to get to flow more air and hold psi through those tiny stock frames!
im SUPER excited and I cannot WAIT to read the news!


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Default 09-04-2014, 05:39 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by triggz
For non-built 6AT, single turbo should be the better option since the torque doesn't come in as strong
If you prefer weaker torque you can always tune it down. Easy.
Also there are singles with slipping ATs so going single hasn't been the solution really.
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Default 09-04-2014, 05:41 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by AUbeast86
You can bet your @ss they won't be $3K anymore. R&D is expensive especially to produce those power levels let alone the equipment required to produce them.
Except somebody just did a lot of the R&D for them. Apparently neither RB or Vargas was aware this would work and these other guys, being TD04 experts from VR4's just tweaked an old set of RB's.

Now the race is on t get a product out for N54 crowd. The VR4 guys say they are not intereted and I can see why, they started with RB's and don't want/need to be a third player in an already crowded N54 hybrid arena. Super cool of them to just show up and do this though.

Personally I think this is really fun to watch and not surprised at all, this is how tech happens and breakthroughs get done.
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Default 09-04-2014, 06:05 AM

Ive been waiting for this to happen! I knew twin td04's have been in the 650+whp realm. Just wondered why it was taking so long.

If they do strap on those hybrid vr4 turbos look out. He made something like 680whp/720wtrq. That would be awesome especially with the torquey low end.
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Default 09-04-2014, 06:17 AM

From our perspective the reason nothing much was ever done to advance to the levels we are presumably now at originated over a year ago (at the time of this thread):
http://www.bimmerboost.com/showthrea...-523WHP-520WTQ

This is where the turbos VTT is using now (actually ASR Turbos) first began to flex their muscles. Tony was able to get his hands on a set of bad ASR turbo cores and rebuild them for testing to send to dzenno at that time. For whatever reason, they were quickly removed and said to not have made much anything better over RB's and they were not on the car long so it seems. The ASR turbine side is machined for a very large wheel, and should flow quite a bit… but news of the turbo hitting a wall led us to accept that the housing was thus a factor of limitation. So this is data that we accepted and rarely challenged as it did make sense considering the size of these housings.

Yet now the same set of turbos are apparently making large amounts of power which is good news indeed. Especially considering we had begun questioning those old results and had a prototype produced to test out, easy enough since we are already adapted to TD04 and can easily fit in larger TD04 wheelsets.

For anyone with RB's, you are actually very much in luck (provided testing proves beneficial, etc) and have no worries. You did not buy a boat anchor, they are actually converted to TD04 and thus are very easy to upgrade. For us or most any reputable shop for that matter, although we obviously encourage us to do any work on them. It has been something we've always considered a selling point, as going to these levels is simply not possible without this larger readaptation.

It is worth noting that the intention to go bigger was always there or possible… but when you do that there is also drawbacks (ie. cost, spool, etc) to consider as well. When we made RB's there was a huge demand to keep the product under $3k, that was the ultimate objective… every additional dollar spent on bigger or additional parts or machining just adds back to product cost (competitively knocking you back unless results prove substantial).

Additionally the idea was to make a product that can satisfy the masses, not just a smaller dedicated group. Over time however it has been shown that people want options and are willing to pay for them (provided they perform), so as data is accumulated going forward and all of the questions are answered there will be more options that are given.

All in all some amount of testing is the prudent thing to do but also on a product fully developed by said manufacturer and exactly as what would be used in those test environments (ie. prototype designs through testing through production). Also some real world customers giving their own take on a product, what it takes to install in time or extra required or non-standard bits, etc. is all good to understand it its entirety.

Rob


See www.rbturbo.com for N54 Twin Turbo Bolt-On upgrades, or contact directly 314-630-8950 rob.rbturbo@gmail.com for a price quote.
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Default 09-04-2014, 08:32 AM

Makes sense. Terry I will be either getting the turbos from the shop that was breaking the record or from VTT as soon as they are available. I am going to need some help on the tuning end my man, lets reclaim that stock housing record for the JB, I am already setup for huge meth flow and upgraded fuel system on the low and high pressure side. Unless Ando's single from VM spools like a champ I am likely going this route for the sake of daily drivability.
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Default 09-04-2014, 08:48 AM

The tuning on large stock frame twins will be a piece of cake. Just load the single turbo flash to start which is designed for 22-30psi boost levels, the JB4 w/ 3.5 bar TMAP sensor, and shoot me some logs, so we can work on dedicated maps.


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It is the sole responsibility of the purchaser and installer of any BMS part to employ the correct installation techniques required to ensure the proper operation of BMS parts, and BMS disclaims any and all liability for any part failure due to improper installation or use. It is the sole responsibility of the customer to verify that the use of their vehicle and items purchased comply with federal, state and local regulations. BMS claims no legal federal, state or local certification concerning pollution controlled motor vehicles or mandated emissions requirements. BMS products labeled for use only in competition racing vehicles may only be used on competition racing vehicles operated exclusively on a closed course in conjunction with a sanctioned racing event, in accordance with all federal and state laws, and may never be operated on public roads/highways. Please click here for more information on legal requirements related to use of BMS parts.
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Default 09-04-2014, 08:50 AM

On 600rw stock frame turbos the power figures look great obviously. Spool up, longevity, and whether the dyno glory translates into real world performance, remains to be seen. There is reason for optimism though. It seems these will perform and spool similar to a 58mm single turbo only for less money. Probably also without the rock solid reliability you get from a single. Or at least the reliability remains to be seen. Just keep in mind everything is always a trade off.


Burger Motorsports
Home of the Worlds fastest N20s, N54s, N55s, S55s, N63s, and S63s!

It is the sole responsibility of the purchaser and installer of any BMS part to employ the correct installation techniques required to ensure the proper operation of BMS parts, and BMS disclaims any and all liability for any part failure due to improper installation or use. It is the sole responsibility of the customer to verify that the use of their vehicle and items purchased comply with federal, state and local regulations. BMS claims no legal federal, state or local certification concerning pollution controlled motor vehicles or mandated emissions requirements. BMS products labeled for use only in competition racing vehicles may only be used on competition racing vehicles operated exclusively on a closed course in conjunction with a sanctioned racing event, in accordance with all federal and state laws, and may never be operated on public roads/highways. Please click here for more information on legal requirements related to use of BMS parts.
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Default 09-04-2014, 09:24 AM

I'm just happy to see so many different options for turbo upgrades being explored at the moment. Not so happy that I totally forgot about that other forum and will now spend even more hours on the interwebs.
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Default 09-04-2014, 09:43 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by NJz
lets reclaim that stock housing record for the JB, I am already setup for huge meth flow and upgraded fuel system on the low and high pressure side.
We actually have 7 sets near ready (machine complete this weekend). Just like with any other option these are for "testing' and should not be considered general availability (2 sets are spoken for from testers) or pre-sold before said testing.

The big difference here vs. what else is going on out there is that these are developed to be tested as they will be produced (ie. not tested with a large disparity over how they will actually be produced).

Guaranteed largest turbine ever stuffed into these N54 housings and a very well matched billet compressor.

Rob


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Default 09-04-2014, 11:00 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Terry @ BMS
The tuning on large stock frame twins will be a piece of cake. Just load the single turbo flash to start which is designed for 22-30psi boost levels, the JB4 w/ 3.5 bar TMAP sensor, and shoot me some logs, so we can work on dedicated maps.
I was about to pull the trigger on RB turbos and knowing the install was literally "bolt on" and play (with my G5 JB4 and pump flash) i could just run the turbos and call it a day with 93 oct. or 50/50 e85/93.

Now im curious as to what i all need to run these instead of the normal stage 2s. I know i need a 3.5 Bar tmap sensor 25$ no big deal. Anything else i need? Will i need to get a custom tune, if so how can i get one? Otherwise i would love to just run the e85 flash with G5 JB4. I know im going to have to upgrade my suspension, LSD, and trans, charge pipe soon but thats besides the point. Anything else i should consider? Never planning on running 100% E85 but might use up to 50/50 E85 and 93...

Anyone able to help me out?


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Last edited by natedog7700; 09-04-2014 at 11:36 AM..
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