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Default Fuel-It! Charge Pipe Injection (CPI) or "the 7th injector" - 07-02-2018, 03:38 PM

Hey guys,

At various points we've discussed a new fueling option we've been working on and it's finally come to fruition. For lack of a better term and since it's how most people will use it, we're referring to it at CPI or Charge Pipe Injection. Many will also refer to it as "the 7th injector" or 5th, 9th, what ever the case may be for you.

Anyway, we've had a lot of people come to us that port injection wasn't an option, they didn't want to run port injection, wanted one of our old TBI kits, or they have one of our port injection kits and want to run an additional injector in the charge pipe for IAT's. Consequently, we started working on a solution and this was a product of that.

We know there will be a lot of questions as the possible applications are endless. This also posses an issue for us in trying to supply you with the most versatile product and options possible. Consequently there are a lot of options to meet your needs. We'll try to briefly cover some of them and hit the highlights but feel free to respond to the thread or email us with questions at info@fuel-it.com.

To get started, here is our basic injector assembly...

As you can see the assembly has a single injector that flush with the end of the assembly and is PWM controlled like any other injector based on boost, RPM, etc. This particular injector assembly is a single feed injector with a -4an flared input and it mounts in any 1/8" npt meth bung for a nice flush fit.

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Shown mounted in CPe/BMS chargepipe

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In addition to that assembly we also have a dual input assembly so we can daisy chain them to use multiple injectors when needed.

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Such as the case with our M5 with the S63TU motor. It's actually got 4 injectors installed that are fed from the LPFP source.

Here are two injectors installed pre-intercooler at the top of the motor

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and an additional two injectors installed post intercooler.

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Here's another dual injector application on the S55.

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To make a connection at the stock fuel source on most BMW's and a lot of other manufactures out there, we also needed to develop a fitting based on our Cam-Lock design so it was easy to install and is compatible with the awkward stock HPFP hard line. Consequently these are now available as well. It's a male 5/16" quick connect input with a female 5/16" output as well as an integrated -4an male flare fitting.

These will fit the N54, N55, B58, S55, S63TU, etc.

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Typically the next question is, "how is it controlled?"

Just like port injection the injectors are PWM and it is controlled with a standard port injection controller such as the BMS port injection controller or the Split Second. If you're already running port injection, you can simply attach the new injector harness to controller with the supplied PosiTaps. If running multiple stand alone injectors (more than 1 or 2) we recommend running a dedicated controller. If using the Split Second, we'd also recommend getting the flash file from us as there are some changes that need to be made to setup to optimize it. We're also working on other control solutions that are currently in development or testing but not ready to be released yet.

Because these assemblies can be used in so many applications, we've created 3 different listings on our website to meet your needs

The first is for our "Starter kit". This is a complete kit that includes the injector, fuel line, fuel line adapter, injector installation tool, and the wiring harness to connect to your injector controller.

Starter Kit shortcut

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For those looking to run more than one injector or wishing to build their own kit, you are able to purchase injectors ala-cart.

Ala-Cart shortcut

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When doing your own thing you will also need fittings, fuel lines, wiring harnesses, etc. so those are available here.

CPI Accessories shortcut

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In addition, since the GTI platform didn't have a good option for a meth bung, we also developed a coupler with dual meth bungs so they could run our injector assemblies as well. At this time we only have the 2.5'" couplers available but will be adding to that as demand merits it.

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2.5" coupler shorcut

Last but not least we know a lot of people will be looking for kits for specific applications such as the S63TU. We are working on putting kits like that together but in the meantime are offer lots of different line lengths and fittings to meet those needs. Until we we more application specific data and have time to document and assemble those, we'll only be doing the generic kits which will fit most peoples needs.

Feel free to post your questions for applications and then share your installations as that will help us get those application specifics assembled that much more quickly.

Thanks



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Video of our Stage 2 LPFP upgrade installation.

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Last edited by Steve @ BMS/Fuel-It!; 07-02-2018 at 03:43 PM..
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Default 07-02-2018, 03:40 PM

Q: What is CPI?

A: Charge Pipe Injection (CPI) is our new proprietary system that allows you to add additional injectors to your boosted application with any standard 1/8" NPT female connection in your charge pipe or intake system.

Q: Is it expandable?

A: Yes, we have two types of injector bodies. The first has one input that can be run by itself or we have an injector body with two connections so you can daisy chain in additional injectors fed from the same fuel source.

Q: What is required to run one of these injectors?

A: These kits are for boosted applications and you must have enough clearance to install the injector and fuel lines. We have provided measurements to assist you with this.

Q: How is it controlled?

A: At this time you must use a port injection controller such as a Split Second AIC1 or if running a JB4, you can use the BMS injector controller as well.

Q: Can I add an injector to my current current port injection kit?

A: Yes, you can connect the injector to the fuel rail if it has an available port such as the Fuel-It! port injection kits do.

Q: Can I use this without a secondary injector controller?

A: No, this is a PWM controlled injector that must be programmed.

Q: Is tuning included with this kit?

A: No, we do have a flash file that we will provide customers for their Split Second controller should they need it, but tuning services are not included with this kit. If you need additional assistance, our basic port injection tuning package can be purchased.

Q: What kind of fuel can I run?

A: These kits are compatible with methanol, ethanol, E85, race gas, and pump gas.

Q: Where do I connect to the fuel source?

A: That will vary by application. If running E85, most will tee in to their low pressure fuel line and if compatible use one of our fuel line adapters.

Q: Can these be used pre-intercooler?

A: Yes but we recommend using the 550cc injector and in an application where air temperatures may are above 300 degrees fahrenheit we recommend running methanol or high concentrations of ethanol in your fuel.

Q: Are there different sizes of injectors available?

A: Yes, we currently offer 550cc and 950cc injectors.

Q: Do you offer a complete kit with everything needed?

A: We have a starter kit that can be found by clicking here.

Q: How do I add on additional injectors and accessories?

A: Additional injector assemblies can be purchased by clicking here. Additional accessories can be purchased by clicking here.

Q: Where can I get a controller?

A: Our injector controllers can be found by clicking here.



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Video of our Stage 2 LPFP upgrade installation.

BMS products labeled for use only in competition racing vehicles may only be used on competition racing vehicles operated exclusively on a closed course in conjunction with a sanctioned racing event, in accordance with all federal and state laws, and may never be operated on public roads/highways.

Last edited by Steve @ BMS/Fuel-It!; 07-08-2018 at 08:44 PM..
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Default 07-02-2018, 04:19 PM

Looking forward to seeing how this does on the F10 M5! Full e85 in our future?


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Nanometer Nanometer is offline
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Default 07-02-2018, 04:45 PM

Can you help educate the lay person who may not understand the benefits over a standard nozzle as we have seen in the past? Perhaps more direct and better fuel control? Better atomization/flow rates? Product looks very premium, and a pleasant welcome to any engine bay in my opinion.


335i E90 2009 ///M Sport Auto
Mods: | Wagner Intercooler | MeowPipe | Meth-Trunk | JB4 | Pump_Back_End_Flash | Fuel-it! Stage 2
Drivetrain--------ForgeStar F14 Wheels 18" (245 & 275 PS4) | XHP L3 Transmission Flash | Wavetrac LSD
Suspension-------KW V3 Coil Overs| M3 RSF Bushings and Dif Bushings | H&R Sways


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Default 07-02-2018, 05:31 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Payam @ BMS
Looking forward to seeing how this does on the F10 M5! Full e85 in our future?
Our M5 is running full E85 and has been for quite a while but we've also had these (or similar versions of) in testing for a long time. The issue for us and high boost (over 25psi on PS2's) other than traction is tuning at the moment. We have plenty of fuel to keep the HPFP happy and the LPFP is happy but trims will bottom out. Reduce the injector duty cycle and trims are fine but the HPFPs crash. So at this point for us, it's a tuning issue and we either wait for the MHD flash to come out or per BM3 "build an entire flash ourselves". No offense to them but not really looking to learn a whole new software and would rather wait for MHD so we can use what we are already familiar with if it comes down to that. Fueling potential on our M5 at the moment is far more than we can utilize and can be further expanded should we reach the limitation of the LPFP which we have yet to find but that could just be because of the tuning.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nanometer
Can you help educate the lay person who may not understand the benefits over a standard nozzle as we have seen in the past? Perhaps more direct and better fuel control? Better atomization/flow rates? Product looks very premium, and a pleasant welcome to any engine bay in my opinion.
If you are running a meth nozzle and meth system...then I'd stick with that.

This system offers a few unique features.

1. Allows users running E85 or high ethanol mixes to run off the stock fuel system to:
1a. Inject fuel and supplement their HPFP so it doesn't crash.
1b. Inject meth or E85 from their port injection fuel rail for IAT's or more fueling potential.
1c. Not have to run an additional tank and pump. (Although we do that with these as well)

2. Offers full PWM control. This is not an "On or Off" system, duty cycle of the injector(s) can be varied from 0-80% (above 80% is not recommended for injectors)

3. An injection option for those platforms that don't have access to port injection. A lot of platforms that it doesn't make sense or isn't possible.

4. With a meth nozzle you must also have a solenoid and FSB to control it. Those that are running port injection and wanted a nozzle in the charge pipe either use a meth kit, or source fuel/meth from the fuel rail and then run it to a solenoid and nozzle with FSB to trigger it but it's still an "on or off" system. In this case, they would simple connect the injector to the fuel rail and connect the injector power to their existing port injection controller. Now the "7th injector" has full PWM control, no secondary or alternate control system is needed.

5. Flow rates: Those are dependent on the injector chosen but again...you can run an oversized injector but since it's PWM controlled it's not an issue.

Thanks...yes these are a bit flashier with all the black anodized parts and silver accents to match the stainless steel lines with black connectors.



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Video of our Stage 2 LPFP upgrade installation.

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2008135i 2008135i is offline
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Default 07-02-2018, 05:52 PM

Would this be a good option to add to my single barrel shotgun kit? I'm running 25psi of boost and would like to go higher, but the HPFP / single barrel kit is tapped out...
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Default 07-02-2018, 05:57 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by 2008135i
Would this be a good option to add to my single barrel shotgun kit? I'm running 25psi of boost and would like to go higher, but the HPFP / single barrel kit is tapped out...
Yes, that is the purpose of these kits...to supplement the fueling to support more power.



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Video of our Stage 2 LPFP upgrade installation.

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Default 07-03-2018, 03:10 AM

how do these compare in relationship to volume of fuel supplied to your tbi kits?
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Default 07-03-2018, 08:28 AM

Do you have an estimate on how much ethanol content you’ll be able to run with the single injector kit on n55 F series with an otherwise stock fuel system?

How much E% with PS2 or one of the bigger turbos?

LPFP upgrade required?

Thanks.
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Default 07-03-2018, 09:26 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by mike082802
how do these compare in relationship to volume of fuel supplied to your tbi kits?
TBI was approximately 1000cc's.

These are offered in 550cc and 950cc configurations.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Anthony235
Do you have an estimate on how much ethanol content you’ll be able to run with the single injector kit on n55 F series with an otherwise stock fuel system?

How much E% with PS2 or one of the bigger turbos?

LPFP upgrade required?

Thanks.
It's all about actual power and actual ethanol content. One 950cc injector will support approximately 90-100 additional whp on E85 and more on lesser mixes. The 550cc injector would support an additional 45-55whp on E85.

LPFP upgrade for ethanol would be recommended, especially when running an upgraded turbo.



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Video of our Stage 2 LPFP upgrade installation.

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Default 07-03-2018, 10:03 AM

Do you really believe you shouldn't run an injector past 80% duty cycle? Aren't you running EV14 injectors? You can easily run those to almost 100% duty cycle. And before you ask, that's not my opinion, that's from Paul Yaw of ID


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Nanometer Nanometer is offline
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Default 07-03-2018, 10:13 AM

Probably not a mater of believing, but likely re-reporting the manufacturers recommendation for duty cycle.


335i E90 2009 ///M Sport Auto
Mods: | Wagner Intercooler | MeowPipe | Meth-Trunk | JB4 | Pump_Back_End_Flash | Fuel-it! Stage 2
Drivetrain--------ForgeStar F14 Wheels 18" (245 & 275 PS4) | XHP L3 Transmission Flash | Wavetrac LSD
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Default 07-03-2018, 01:41 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Milan
Do you really believe you shouldn't run an injector past 80% duty cycle? Aren't you running EV14 injectors? You can easily run those to almost 100% duty cycle. And before you ask, that's not my opinion, that's from Paul Yaw of ID
Yes... Always better to have a margin to work rather than running the ragged edge and a few other reasons I won't get in to that have to do with cycle time, heat, wear, etc.



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Video of our Stage 2 LPFP upgrade installation.

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KevinC39 KevinC39 is offline
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Default 07-03-2018, 02:07 PM

I thought we were getting away from TBI and CPI because of cylinder distribution issues?


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Default 07-03-2018, 06:34 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by KevinC39
I thought we were getting away from TBI and CPI because of cylinder distribution issues?
It's just a fraction of the total fuel, same with meth.

I really like this idea for reducing fueling complexity, i.e. going to straight E85. Any data on N55 usage yet, like when you need a better LPFP and what it's capable of?
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Default 07-03-2018, 08:07 PM

how is the spray pattern or atomization compared to the tbi bete microwhirl nozzles you were using?
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Default 07-04-2018, 07:41 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by hi rpm
It's just a fraction of the total fuel, same with meth.

I really like this idea for reducing fueling complexity, i.e. going to straight E85. Any data on N55 usage yet, like when you need a better LPFP and what it's capable of?
Adding an extra 100hp worth of fuel is not insignificant. Especially if some cylinders aren't getting as much fuel as others. I thought this was the reason they quit with the tbi in the first place and went all in on port injection. This seems like a step backwards so I'm just trying to figure out what's up. Thanks though


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Default 07-04-2018, 08:01 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by KevinC39
Adding an extra 100hp worth of fuel is not insignificant. Especially if some cylinders aren't getting as much fuel as others. I thought this was the reason they quit with the tbi in the first place and went all in on port injection. This seems like a step backwards so I'm just trying to figure out what's up. Thanks though
People are still occasionally installing carburetors, and that's 100% of the fuel.

I couldn't tell you why they quit making the TBI system, but imo charge pipe is better because it's upstream from the TMAP sensor.
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KevinC39 KevinC39 is offline
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Default 07-04-2018, 08:08 AM

Thanks again for a non answer. I'll wait for a response from them. I'm guessing the reason for this is to meet a lower price point. Nothing wrong with that if it's the case but if there's another reason, I'd be curious.


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Default 07-04-2018, 08:22 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by KevinC39
Thanks again for a non answer. I'll wait for a response from them. I'm guessing the reason for this is to meet a lower price point. Nothing wrong with that if it's the case but if there's another reason, I'd be curious.
Obviously for 99%+ of purchasers it's because it's cheaper and easier to install than port injection.

Good luck with getting the manufacturer and retailer to elaborate on its downsides.
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Default 07-04-2018, 08:32 AM

The key here will be fuel distribution (and safety) to each cylinder. You can easily run pure ethanol in a meth injection system instead of meth if more fuel is required and that's an octane on demand system also.


UK FBO 335i, GCs, JB4, PI meth, BMS CP, OCC, Braided brake lines. Diff Lockdown. TMAP sensor, custom bucketless stage2

11.79@119mph on stockers, CP meth (UK, Santa Pod)
11.74@129mph on GCs, custom port meth injection.
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Default 07-04-2018, 10:25 AM

Could any of you who have enough clearance explain me for this new product please. I am running with fuel it port injection via methanol managed by bms Jb4 controller. Since I’m exhausted of repairing clogged nozzle , lines , leaks , bubbles etc in the charge pipe , Id like to have this kit as a reliable solution. But what makes me hesitant is , is it overkill for IAT suppression , and Steve’s sayings that the CPI should be located in the rail as a7th injector while I am thinking it in the charge pipe. Thanks in advance.


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Full Bolt Ons, Ps2 turbos, TFT inlet system,xHP Stage 3

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Default 07-08-2018, 08:36 PM

Okay....let me answer a few of these questions and then I'll put up some Q and A's that are also on our website. We'll continue to expand upon those as more questions come up.

First of all, these applications are not platform specific and since these are as new as they are, we have not put together platform specific kits. All of the components are available on our website to do almost anything you can think up.

When we designed these, we designed them to be universal for any platform...they can literally be installed any place you have or can install an 1/8" npt bung.

Last but not least, people are wanting to compare these to TBI, this isn't TBI or a replacement, there are many differences.

1. TBI was on or off. CPI is PWM controlled, the injector is boost referenced, not just boost triggered.

2. TBI was 0% or 100% and not adjustable. As I said, CPI is PWM controlled, so it is 0 to 100% and boost/RPM/and/or JB4 referenced. It is much more versatile.

3. TBI came with 2 nozzles and was not adjustable. CPI can be purchased with 2 sizes of injectors.

4. TBI was installed post throttle body and that was the only place it could be installed. CPI can be installed anywhere you have an 1/8" NPT port.

5. TBI could not be expanded upon, it only came in one configuration. CPI has an infinite number of possibilities, you can run 1 injector, 3, 5, whatever your needs are.

6. TBI was discontinued when we offered a lower cost port injection alternative. It didn't make sense to offer a TBI kit when port injection could be had for another few hundred that was more versatile and had much more flow potential.

The 2nd post will be our Q and A post for reference so please reference that and if good questions come up, then we'll add them to post 2 and answer them there.

cebrailbakan, you're not understanding what I told you. The rail would be the fuel source for the injector...not where you would install the injector.



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Video of our Stage 2 LPFP upgrade installation.

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mike082802 mike082802 is offline
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Default 07-09-2018, 03:21 AM

Again:

how is the spray pattern or atomization compared to the tbi bete microwhirl nozzles you were using?
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Default 07-09-2018, 08:26 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by mike082802
Again:

how is the spray pattern or atomization compared to the tbi bete microwhirl nozzles you were using?
Only before and after logs (trims and AFR) will tell but unfortunately on N54s etc we only see bank 1 and bank 2 measurements. Cylinder 3 could be drowning in fuel and cylinder 1 could be dry as a bone. Only reading plugs or fitting aftermarket sensors could tell.


UK FBO 335i, GCs, JB4, PI meth, BMS CP, OCC, Braided brake lines. Diff Lockdown. TMAP sensor, custom bucketless stage2

11.79@119mph on stockers, CP meth (UK, Santa Pod)
11.74@129mph on GCs, custom port meth injection.
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