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jturboawd jturboawd is offline
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Default 03-14-2015, 06:51 AM

I am budgeting for a build on my car and wanted to get bms's and my peers opinion on the following:
It's very hard to get e85 in my area. I am targeting 700whp and prefer not running meth. Can this kit aid in hitting 700 using 93? I understand why e85 is optimal and agree it's just not available for me. Also team please note e85 didn't do for the government what they intended and there is currently legiatlation being proposed to limit ethanol content to 10% so this question may become important in the upcoming years.

Also if this kit is sutible for 93 will there be a bms pump flash for it?

Thank you in advance.
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Default 03-14-2015, 11:40 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by FastGti69
Got the word from Steve my kit should be here next week amd we will be installing it over the weekend. Dyno for full e85 and high boost will be coming shortly.
Ill be dyno'ing on full E85 and high boost Monday. Unfortunately I'll be on a mustang dyno yet again, but I'll have some numbers to post.


10'135i Alpine White M-Sport M/T 827HP 707TQ@32lbs
Motiv 900 - Tial BOV/Wastegate - Big Tom Intercooler - FuelIt! Stage 3+ - MHD Custom Flash - Haltech PS1000 - Motiv Port Injection/Twin Disc - BMS OCC - Kosei - 275/40/17 NT05R's
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Default 03-14-2015, 11:48 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Amgturbo2012
Ill be dyno'ing on full E85 and high boost Monday. Unfortunately I'll be on a mustang dyno yet again, but I'll have some numbers to post.
I will be using their FPR kit with return line. Going for 800whp full e85 30+ PSI


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Default 03-14-2015, 12:01 PM

If only I weren't Auto!! Good luck bud and keep us posted.


10'135i Alpine White M-Sport M/T 827HP 707TQ@32lbs
Motiv 900 - Tial BOV/Wastegate - Big Tom Intercooler - FuelIt! Stage 3+ - MHD Custom Flash - Haltech PS1000 - Motiv Port Injection/Twin Disc - BMS OCC - Kosei - 275/40/17 NT05R's
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Default 03-14-2015, 01:09 PM

Hey guys,

Was able to get around to logging the Stage3 kit without the second pump connected on 100% E85. Interestingly I'm seeing fuel pressure drop at 20psi. Which is only around 560whp.

So needless to say I think full Stage3 is going to be required for anyone running the PI kit with straight E85 with a single turbo. I'm not sure why my previous Stage1 setup seemed to hold better low pressure than Stage2. But it seems to be an aberration rather than the norm. Our FFTEC E92 Stage1 held less than Stage2 and ultimately also required Stage3 for 700whp power levels. I have the second pump connected and set to trigger at 14psi via the JB4. I'll relog shortly!

Also if I can throw a quick plug for Fuel-It in here, the Stage3 kit is top notch. Everything is nicely packaged right down to the wire ties & electrical fittings you need. Very well done kit and strongly suggested.
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It is the sole responsibility of the purchaser and installer of any BMS part to employ the correct installation techniques required to ensure the proper operation of BMS parts, and BMS disclaims any and all liability for any part failure due to improper installation or use. It is the sole responsibility of the customer to verify that the use of their vehicle and items purchased comply with federal, state and local regulations. BMS claims no legal federal, state or local certification concerning pollution controlled motor vehicles or mandated emissions requirements. BMS products labeled for use only in competition racing vehicles may only be used on competition racing vehicles operated exclusively on a closed course in conjunction with a sanctioned racing event, in accordance with all federal and state laws, and may never be operated on public roads/highways. Please click here for more information on legal requirements related to use of BMS parts.
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(#256)
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Default 03-14-2015, 01:52 PM

This is not good news for myself. Since I'm running stage 3 as a stage 2. I guess I'll end up having to hook up the second pump to hit my 600whp goal. ��
Either way rock on terry! Great to see you posting about it!


10'135i Alpine White M-Sport M/T 827HP 707TQ@32lbs
Motiv 900 - Tial BOV/Wastegate - Big Tom Intercooler - FuelIt! Stage 3+ - MHD Custom Flash - Haltech PS1000 - Motiv Port Injection/Twin Disc - BMS OCC - Kosei - 275/40/17 NT05R's
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Default 03-14-2015, 02:25 PM

terry where you able to test this on a twin turbo setup and see if the stage 2 will have the same drop as the single?


2009 BMW 335I with: MHD/Haltech,
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(#258)
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mjott mjott is offline
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Default 03-14-2015, 02:33 PM

I ran into a few minor fuel leaks my first try but now all of the hardware is installed. Just wanted to clarify on the green wire installation: it should be installed at the location labeled #1 in the attached picture, correct?

Also, a few other questions:

Is there any purge procedure or just floor it to bleed any air in the PI system?

If I happen to fill up with 93 pump gas for a tank or two, is there any way to disable the PI, besides keeping boost/rpm below the threshold or unplugging the AIC?

Is there any issue with the PI system injecting pump gas or a mixture instead of 100% e85? Besides having the tune/fueling lined out, any other concerns having the PI inject pump gas. I realize I won't make nearly the power, just concerned about any damaging affects. (I assume not since most cars 5 years ago ran port fuel injection)

I'll write-up a few quick pointers for the install once I finish everything.
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2008 E90 335i 6MT: RBs, Inlets, FBO, JB4 G5 ISO, BMS E85 flash, BMS Port Injection, Walbro 450 LPFP, 335is clutch
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(#259)
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Default 03-14-2015, 03:14 PM

The boost reference wire for the AIC has to be connected to spot #1, to read boost in from the sensor.

There is no purging process. Just ensure you have no leaks and you are good to go.

The PI maps are referenced on boost. So, on lower boost maps you might run no pump gas, the PI won't be injecting much by design.


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It is the sole responsibility of the purchaser and installer of any BMS part to employ the correct installation techniques required to ensure the proper operation of BMS parts, and BMS disclaims any and all liability for any part failure due to improper installation or use. It is the sole responsibility of the customer to verify that the use of their vehicle and items purchased comply with federal, state and local regulations. BMS claims no legal federal, state or local certification concerning pollution controlled motor vehicles or mandated emissions requirements. BMS products labeled for use only in competition racing vehicles may only be used on competition racing vehicles operated exclusively on a closed course in conjunction with a sanctioned racing event, in accordance with all federal and state laws, and may never be operated on public roads/highways. Please click here for more information on legal requirements related to use of BMS parts.
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(#260)
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Default 03-14-2015, 03:16 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by kenjermen
terry where you able to test this on a twin turbo setup and see if the stage 2 will have the same drop as the single?
Ultimately you'll have to log your specific setup to know for sure. Our 135i was able to make 630whp on Stage1. At least for awhile! But now it can't do 570whp on Stage2.


Burger Motorsports
Home of the Worlds fastest N20s, N54s, N55s, S55s, N63s, and S63s!

It is the sole responsibility of the purchaser and installer of any BMS part to employ the correct installation techniques required to ensure the proper operation of BMS parts, and BMS disclaims any and all liability for any part failure due to improper installation or use. It is the sole responsibility of the customer to verify that the use of their vehicle and items purchased comply with federal, state and local regulations. BMS claims no legal federal, state or local certification concerning pollution controlled motor vehicles or mandated emissions requirements. BMS products labeled for use only in competition racing vehicles may only be used on competition racing vehicles operated exclusively on a closed course in conjunction with a sanctioned racing event, in accordance with all federal and state laws, and may never be operated on public roads/highways. Please click here for more information on legal requirements related to use of BMS parts.
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Default 03-14-2015, 03:21 PM

Hey terry, just out of curiosity, what back end flash are you running for 100% E85?


10'135i Alpine White M-Sport M/T 827HP 707TQ@32lbs
Motiv 900 - Tial BOV/Wastegate - Big Tom Intercooler - FuelIt! Stage 3+ - MHD Custom Flash - Haltech PS1000 - Motiv Port Injection/Twin Disc - BMS OCC - Kosei - 275/40/17 NT05R's
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Default 03-14-2015, 03:34 PM

A single turbo map with slightly leaner AFR targets.


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It is the sole responsibility of the purchaser and installer of any BMS part to employ the correct installation techniques required to ensure the proper operation of BMS parts, and BMS disclaims any and all liability for any part failure due to improper installation or use. It is the sole responsibility of the customer to verify that the use of their vehicle and items purchased comply with federal, state and local regulations. BMS claims no legal federal, state or local certification concerning pollution controlled motor vehicles or mandated emissions requirements. BMS products labeled for use only in competition racing vehicles may only be used on competition racing vehicles operated exclusively on a closed course in conjunction with a sanctioned racing event, in accordance with all federal and state laws, and may never be operated on public roads/highways. Please click here for more information on legal requirements related to use of BMS parts.
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Default 03-14-2015, 04:06 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Terry @ BMS
A single turbo map with slightly leaner AFR targets.
LOL


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It is the sole responsibility of the purchaser and installer of any BMS part to employ the correct installation techniques required to ensure the proper operation of BMS parts, and BMS disclaims any and all liability for any part failure due to improper installation or use. It is the sole responsibility of the customer to verify that the use of their vehicle and items purchased comply with federal, state and local regulations. BMS claims no legal federal, state or local certification concerning pollution controlled motor vehicles or mandated emissions requirements. BMS products labeled for use only in competition racing vehicles may only be used on competition racing vehicles operated exclusively on a closed course in conjunction with a sanctioned racing event, in accordance with all federal and state laws, and may never be operated on public roads/highways. Please click here for more information on legal requirements related to use of BMS parts.
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Default 03-14-2015, 04:08 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Terry @ BMS
A single turbo map with slightly leaner AFR targets.
Oh ok! So if someone buys the PI kit they can't just throw it in and run 100% E85. They'll have to modify one of the single turbo maps.


10'135i Alpine White M-Sport M/T 827HP 707TQ@32lbs
Motiv 900 - Tial BOV/Wastegate - Big Tom Intercooler - FuelIt! Stage 3+ - MHD Custom Flash - Haltech PS1000 - Motiv Port Injection/Twin Disc - BMS OCC - Kosei - 275/40/17 NT05R's
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Default 03-14-2015, 04:09 PM

Normal maps should work fine. Later we'll post a 100% E85 specific version of the map though.


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It is the sole responsibility of the purchaser and installer of any BMS part to employ the correct installation techniques required to ensure the proper operation of BMS parts, and BMS disclaims any and all liability for any part failure due to improper installation or use. It is the sole responsibility of the customer to verify that the use of their vehicle and items purchased comply with federal, state and local regulations. BMS claims no legal federal, state or local certification concerning pollution controlled motor vehicles or mandated emissions requirements. BMS products labeled for use only in competition racing vehicles may only be used on competition racing vehicles operated exclusively on a closed course in conjunction with a sanctioned racing event, in accordance with all federal and state laws, and may never be operated on public roads/highways. Please click here for more information on legal requirements related to use of BMS parts.
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Default 03-15-2015, 11:52 AM

Back in business with Stage3!

Updated the N20 PI maps in the first post as well.
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It is the sole responsibility of the purchaser and installer of any BMS part to employ the correct installation techniques required to ensure the proper operation of BMS parts, and BMS disclaims any and all liability for any part failure due to improper installation or use. It is the sole responsibility of the customer to verify that the use of their vehicle and items purchased comply with federal, state and local regulations. BMS claims no legal federal, state or local certification concerning pollution controlled motor vehicles or mandated emissions requirements. BMS products labeled for use only in competition racing vehicles may only be used on competition racing vehicles operated exclusively on a closed course in conjunction with a sanctioned racing event, in accordance with all federal and state laws, and may never be operated on public roads/highways. Please click here for more information on legal requirements related to use of BMS parts.
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Default 03-15-2015, 07:56 PM

Dont know if this has been covered already but this kit is basically like the Motiv level 1 kit, and to upgrade to motiv level 2 kit for those pushing north of 700whp with 100% E85, you need a kit from Fuel it for the regulator, return line and other things needed as well as a stage 3 fuel pump. This sealed the deal for me to go with Terry's kit for one basic reason, TUNING SUPPORT! and JB4 Integration. I like it because you can buy T's kit now and then later upgrade to the equivalent of the Motiv Level 2 kit and only pay for the additional parts needed. I will be buying this PI kit very soon


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Default 03-15-2015, 08:02 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Terry @ BMS
Back in business with Stage3!

Updated the N20 PI maps in the first post as well.
Looks good T, but should the timing curve be about 5 deg higher across the board for 100% E85?


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Default 03-15-2015, 11:16 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Terry @ BMS
Hey guys,

Was able to get around to logging the Stage3 kit without the second pump connected on 100% E85. Interestingly I'm seeing fuel pressure drop at 20psi. Which is only around 560whp.

So needless to say I think full Stage3 is going to be required for anyone running the PI kit with straight E85 with a single turbo. I'm not sure why my previous Stage1 setup seemed to hold better low pressure than Stage2. But it seems to be an aberration rather than the norm. Our FFTEC E92 Stage1 held less than Stage2 and ultimately also required Stage3 for 700whp power levels. I have the second pump connected and set to trigger at 14psi via the JB4. I'll relog shortly!

Also if I can throw a quick plug for Fuel-It in here, the Stage3 kit is top notch. Everything is nicely packaged right down to the wire ties & electrical fittings you need. Very well done kit and strongly suggested.
Hey Terry...first off thanks! Glad to see things are going better now.

You're right though, it's strange how those results were reversed between the 2 cars. There seems to be some variation as to how the system responds to flow (450) vs. pressure (255) from car to car.

Can you post a log with your trims from that single 450 run?

Thanks,
Steve



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Default 03-15-2015, 11:34 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by SteveAZ
Hey Terry...first off thanks! Glad to see things are going better now.

You're right though, it's strange how those results were reversed between the 2 cars. There seems to be some variation as to how the system responds to flow (450) vs. pressure (255) from car to car.

Can you post a log with your trims from that single 450 run?

Thanks,
Steve
running 100% E85 with Terry new MHD flash and car pulls like a stealth bomber. Steve PM me price on stage 3 pump...I have the stage 2 now.


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Default 03-16-2015, 11:32 AM

with port injection do you still connect the stage 3 pump to the jb4, also if eventually one goes passive with the jb4 will it still control the stage 3?


2009 BMW 335I with: MHD/Haltech,
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Default 03-16-2015, 12:17 PM

Spend another couple of hrs on the dyno tweaking the PI maps. I'll update them again, shortly. Just for reference with the 3.5 bar 20psi is ~16psi, 23psi is ~17.5psi, and 26psi ~19psi in the PI software.


Burger Motorsports
Home of the Worlds fastest N20s, N54s, N55s, S55s, N63s, and S63s!

It is the sole responsibility of the purchaser and installer of any BMS part to employ the correct installation techniques required to ensure the proper operation of BMS parts, and BMS disclaims any and all liability for any part failure due to improper installation or use. It is the sole responsibility of the customer to verify that the use of their vehicle and items purchased comply with federal, state and local regulations. BMS claims no legal federal, state or local certification concerning pollution controlled motor vehicles or mandated emissions requirements. BMS products labeled for use only in competition racing vehicles may only be used on competition racing vehicles operated exclusively on a closed course in conjunction with a sanctioned racing event, in accordance with all federal and state laws, and may never be operated on public roads/highways. Please click here for more information on legal requirements related to use of BMS parts.
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Default 03-16-2015, 12:40 PM

Got my PI working together with the motiv kit. Must say the split second software is not that userfriendly.
Seems i uploaded it right though. before it was injecting constantly. I check with the software and i can see the rpm go up and down.
Strange that when i was in the map window i could only see zeroes across the rpm board. Normal?


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Default 03-16-2015, 12:44 PM

You open "live data" to see RPM move, etc.


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It is the sole responsibility of the purchaser and installer of any BMS part to employ the correct installation techniques required to ensure the proper operation of BMS parts, and BMS disclaims any and all liability for any part failure due to improper installation or use. It is the sole responsibility of the customer to verify that the use of their vehicle and items purchased comply with federal, state and local regulations. BMS claims no legal federal, state or local certification concerning pollution controlled motor vehicles or mandated emissions requirements. BMS products labeled for use only in competition racing vehicles may only be used on competition racing vehicles operated exclusively on a closed course in conjunction with a sanctioned racing event, in accordance with all federal and state laws, and may never be operated on public roads/highways. Please click here for more information on legal requirements related to use of BMS parts.
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Default 03-16-2015, 12:53 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by enrita
Got my PI working together with the motiv kit. Must say the split second software is not that userfriendly.
Seems i uploaded it right though. before it was injecting constantly. I check with the software and i can see the rpm go up and down.
Strange that when i was in the map window i could only see zeroes across the rpm board. Normal?
In map mode make sure your on map A. You should see changes made once you scroll over to 12 or so PSI.


10'135i Alpine White M-Sport M/T 827HP 707TQ@32lbs
Motiv 900 - Tial BOV/Wastegate - Big Tom Intercooler - FuelIt! Stage 3+ - MHD Custom Flash - Haltech PS1000 - Motiv Port Injection/Twin Disc - BMS OCC - Kosei - 275/40/17 NT05R's
10'135i Black A/T - 580WHP 540WTQ (11.51@134MPH 2.1 60')
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