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codesx codesx is offline
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Default Oil and Coolant leakage, after being garaged for the winter (and worked on) - 04-09-2019, 01:46 PM

Hi all,

Just tossing this out there (shot in the dark) in the hopes someone has had similar and I can benefit from your experience.

My 2008 335i sat in my garage over the winter.
I replaced the VCG, 2 OFHGs and 2 Oil Cooler line o-rings.
None of this is leaking now.

However, the under-body of my car is soaked in coolant and fresh oil.
I have all cowling off the under and upper, so visibility is about as good as it gets.
I washed it clean and then drove it to a mechanic for more insight (a better look from the bottom).
They cannot even trace the source it's already all so wet.

They are looking at washing the engine in their garage, then adding something to the oil that a UV light would help expose.

Zero oil or coolant is visible from the top. It's not coming from the crank seal. The only rad hoses I bumped are the upper, and they are still good. (remove and install the rad fan)

It appears to be showing up below the passenger side, roughly in the middle w/ respect to front/back of engine bay.

Has anyone else had similar?
Is there some common part that shifts/breaks when doing the above work?

Wherever this is coming from, it was not leaking there prior to parking it over the winter and doing the above mentioned work.

Thanks.


----

2008 335i Convertible, E93, N54, A/T (190,000+ km)
Wheels: 322 | Tires: R.275/35r18, F.245/40r18
TUNE: JB4 Map 6 | RACE BEF | 94 Octane | @19 PSI
BMS JB4 | BMS WMI @ 60/40 (CM10) | BMS 5" FMIC | BMS OCC | BMS DCI | BMS Cowel Filters
xHP Stage 3 (v2.0)
VRSF CP | HKS BOV
RB PCV Valve
NGK 5992 Plugs @ .020

Maintenance:
2018 - A/T Replaced | Plugs | Ign Coils | Walnut Blasting
2019 - VCG | OFHG & O-rings | Alternator w/ Clutch Pulley | Water Pump & T Stat
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codesx codesx is offline
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Car: 2008 335i Vert (E93, N54)
Default 04-09-2019, 01:48 PM

As I read my post, I wonder if the oil is coming from the oil cooler lines running to the rad in front of the passenger wheel.

Is there any coolant lines that also relate to this function?


----

2008 335i Convertible, E93, N54, A/T (190,000+ km)
Wheels: 322 | Tires: R.275/35r18, F.245/40r18
TUNE: JB4 Map 6 | RACE BEF | 94 Octane | @19 PSI
BMS JB4 | BMS WMI @ 60/40 (CM10) | BMS 5" FMIC | BMS OCC | BMS DCI | BMS Cowel Filters
xHP Stage 3 (v2.0)
VRSF CP | HKS BOV
RB PCV Valve
NGK 5992 Plugs @ .020

Maintenance:
2018 - A/T Replaced | Plugs | Ign Coils | Walnut Blasting
2019 - VCG | OFHG & O-rings | Alternator w/ Clutch Pulley | Water Pump & T Stat
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codesx codesx is offline
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Car: 2008 335i Vert (E93, N54)
Default 04-10-2019, 07:01 AM

Well, starting to look more intense.
Parked the car for now.

The coolant reservoir looks like an engine oil reservoir.
I will check the engine oil for coolant on Saturday, though see no foaming from the oil filler cap.

I'm wondering if the issue is with the Oil Filter Housing. I changed the gaskets with ones from BMW dealer. Every millimeter of them looked good. They seated into the grooves perfectly. I cleaned the grooves flawlessly before install. I cleaned the engine mating surface with a flat razor and brake cleaner.
Not sure how it could be mixing there, but anything is possible?

I'd love ideas on this issue. I want my car on the road asap.


Further, I've been looking on realoem at the cooling lines.
I'm hoping someone may have better diagrams for troubleshooting purposes.


Thanks for any help!


----

2008 335i Convertible, E93, N54, A/T (190,000+ km)
Wheels: 322 | Tires: R.275/35r18, F.245/40r18
TUNE: JB4 Map 6 | RACE BEF | 94 Octane | @19 PSI
BMS JB4 | BMS WMI @ 60/40 (CM10) | BMS 5" FMIC | BMS OCC | BMS DCI | BMS Cowel Filters
xHP Stage 3 (v2.0)
VRSF CP | HKS BOV
RB PCV Valve
NGK 5992 Plugs @ .020

Maintenance:
2018 - A/T Replaced | Plugs | Ign Coils | Walnut Blasting
2019 - VCG | OFHG & O-rings | Alternator w/ Clutch Pulley | Water Pump & T Stat
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E90 M335i E90 M335i is offline
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Default 04-10-2019, 07:28 AM

100% your OFHG/Oil cooler if you got coolant and oil mixing
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codesx codesx is offline
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Default 04-10-2019, 08:34 AM

Thanks for the feedback E90 M335i.

I'll pull this apart sat AM.
I gently oiled the rubber gasket before installing, believing it would seal better. It seems like a good idea.

Could a component within the OFH fail, allowing cross contamination? (I saw a few interesting parts that can move)

Or strictly the gasket itself could allow cross contamination?


----

2008 335i Convertible, E93, N54, A/T (190,000+ km)
Wheels: 322 | Tires: R.275/35r18, F.245/40r18
TUNE: JB4 Map 6 | RACE BEF | 94 Octane | @19 PSI
BMS JB4 | BMS WMI @ 60/40 (CM10) | BMS 5" FMIC | BMS OCC | BMS DCI | BMS Cowel Filters
xHP Stage 3 (v2.0)
VRSF CP | HKS BOV
RB PCV Valve
NGK 5992 Plugs @ .020

Maintenance:
2018 - A/T Replaced | Plugs | Ign Coils | Walnut Blasting
2019 - VCG | OFHG & O-rings | Alternator w/ Clutch Pulley | Water Pump & T Stat
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E90 M335i E90 M335i is offline
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Default 04-10-2019, 08:41 AM

Never seen an OFH fail internally.. it's always been gaskets that cause issues like this.. And yea. No oil on the gasket when installing.. I'm thinking the gasket might have moved a bit when installing or just a faulty gasket.
Make sure you flush the coolant system and do and oil change, drive for a day or so and change again.
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codesx codesx is offline
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Default 04-22-2019, 09:50 AM

Well, I pulled my OFH off again.
The seals are in perfect condition with no signs of leaking/cross contaminating.
Further, the coolant in the upper rad hose is pure and clean green, as is the coolant seen in the block with the OFH removed.
When I removed the Coolant reservoir cap, the coolant that came out the described areas remained clean and clear green.
I drained my oil and there is zero detectable coolant in it.

However, my coolant reservoir tank appears to be straight-up oil.

I'm not yet sure of the coolant circulation flow, though I'm guessing the oil is coming from the block up into the coolant reservoir tank from the lower (larger) hose, and not from the little hose at the top, that feeds into the upper rad hose.

I can't see any way that this is happening in the OFH, or OFHG related. I checked every mm of the gaskets for cracks. They are simply a nice, flexible rubber.

When I first started the car after doing the work, there was a light coolant leak, which since turned to a coolant & oil leak. I still haven't isolated the leak, but it's certainly from the lower half of the engine, passenger side, front. (not rad or rad hose)

Is the Head Gasket the ONLY other place where oil can get into the coolant?

The car runs great, holds boost and has no codes. WGDC, fuel, AFR, everything looks clean in the logs. No smoke, just drips and coolant expansion tank full of oil. Oil level never measured the loss to the coolant tank, so it is likely 200~ml.

Thoughts?


----

2008 335i Convertible, E93, N54, A/T (190,000+ km)
Wheels: 322 | Tires: R.275/35r18, F.245/40r18
TUNE: JB4 Map 6 | RACE BEF | 94 Octane | @19 PSI
BMS JB4 | BMS WMI @ 60/40 (CM10) | BMS 5" FMIC | BMS OCC | BMS DCI | BMS Cowel Filters
xHP Stage 3 (v2.0)
VRSF CP | HKS BOV
RB PCV Valve
NGK 5992 Plugs @ .020

Maintenance:
2018 - A/T Replaced | Plugs | Ign Coils | Walnut Blasting
2019 - VCG | OFHG & O-rings | Alternator w/ Clutch Pulley | Water Pump & T Stat
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Vorsprung_CJB Vorsprung_CJB is offline
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Default 04-22-2019, 11:32 AM

How cold did your winter get and for how long? How much AF/water mix? Wonder if any water may have frozen and pushed things apart where oil and water could mix.
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Default 04-22-2019, 01:38 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vorsprung_CJB
How cold did your winter get and for how long? How much AF/water mix? Wonder if any water may have frozen and pushed things apart where oil and water could mix.

Thanks Vorsprung.

It wasn't a bad winter. Only a couple days below -20c (-4f). I kept it in my unheated garage. Minus 10c lasted most of the few month winter.

Coolant/water is 50/50 from the dealer.


----

2008 335i Convertible, E93, N54, A/T (190,000+ km)
Wheels: 322 | Tires: R.275/35r18, F.245/40r18
TUNE: JB4 Map 6 | RACE BEF | 94 Octane | @19 PSI
BMS JB4 | BMS WMI @ 60/40 (CM10) | BMS 5" FMIC | BMS OCC | BMS DCI | BMS Cowel Filters
xHP Stage 3 (v2.0)
VRSF CP | HKS BOV
RB PCV Valve
NGK 5992 Plugs @ .020

Maintenance:
2018 - A/T Replaced | Plugs | Ign Coils | Walnut Blasting
2019 - VCG | OFHG & O-rings | Alternator w/ Clutch Pulley | Water Pump & T Stat
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E90 M335i E90 M335i is offline
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Default 04-22-2019, 02:29 PM

I'm very confused now.. not much else beside the OFHG/OCHG and head gasket where oil and coolant can mix..
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Default 04-22-2019, 04:09 PM

Dont forget that oil and coolant both go to the factory turbochargers. They are on the passanger side and the cores are not exactly bullet proof. Possibly cracked during the winter if your coolant mixture is not exactly 50\50 and it froze
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Default 04-22-2019, 05:04 PM

The 50/50 is rated to like -30 I think. I don't think it can separate or anything.
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Default 04-22-2019, 05:35 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by DeepEddy
Dont forget that oil and coolant both go to the factory turbochargers. They are on the passanger side and the cores are not exactly bullet proof. Possibly cracked during the winter if your coolant mixture is not exactly 50\50 and it froze

Thanks DeepEddy and all.

I find the realoem diagrams of the turbos and cooling hard to follow.

Are there better resources to understand circulation direction, etc?

I honestly didn't realize the turbos had coolant to them. Silly me.

I don't see it as relevant, but I did shred my serpentine belt just prior to garaging for the winter. While most pulleys had belt wrapped around them, the crank pulley had none, and the seal is in perfect shape with no leaks.


----

2008 335i Convertible, E93, N54, A/T (190,000+ km)
Wheels: 322 | Tires: R.275/35r18, F.245/40r18
TUNE: JB4 Map 6 | RACE BEF | 94 Octane | @19 PSI
BMS JB4 | BMS WMI @ 60/40 (CM10) | BMS 5" FMIC | BMS OCC | BMS DCI | BMS Cowel Filters
xHP Stage 3 (v2.0)
VRSF CP | HKS BOV
RB PCV Valve
NGK 5992 Plugs @ .020

Maintenance:
2018 - A/T Replaced | Plugs | Ign Coils | Walnut Blasting
2019 - VCG | OFHG & O-rings | Alternator w/ Clutch Pulley | Water Pump & T Stat
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skirmozas skirmozas is offline
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Car: 2010 N54 BMW 135i
Default 04-23-2019, 04:23 PM

Probably this document will help to get some better idea on how the coolant flows.

http://www.e90post.com/forums/attach...8&d=1165592709

As for coolant reservoir, if I remember well, the top hose is a return line for expansion and the bottom hose is the feed going into the engine. Are you sure you didn't accidentally mix some oil into the coolant lines when you worked on OFHG? My guess is that it's residual oil in the reservoir - flush it, see if any more oil appears. It's lighter than coolant and may just stay on top making the impression of reservoir being full of oil.

As for coolant leak, it could be your water pump/thermostat. Water pumps like to crack and leak coolant, could be a good place to inspect, it's right where you describe the leak coming from.

As for oil leak - hell knows mate, could be your VCG - I read you swapped that out recently as well, inspect around it. Check whether there's any oil around tranny bell housing.
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codesx codesx is offline
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Default 04-29-2019, 09:46 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by skirmozas
Probably this document will help to get some better idea on how the coolant flows.

http://www.e90post.com/forums/attach...8&d=1165592709

As for coolant reservoir, if I remember well, the top hose is a return line for expansion and the bottom hose is the feed going into the engine. Are you sure you didn't accidentally mix some oil into the coolant lines when you worked on OFHG? My guess is that it's residual oil in the reservoir - flush it, see if any more oil appears. It's lighter than coolant and may just stay on top making the impression of reservoir being full of oil.

As for coolant leak, it could be your water pump/thermostat. Water pumps like to crack and leak coolant, could be a good place to inspect, it's right where you describe the leak coming from.

As for oil leak - hell knows mate, could be your VCG - I read you swapped that out recently as well, inspect around it. Check whether there's any oil around tranny bell housing.

Thanks skirmozas.

Thanks for that document. Was a good read.
I really like your theory here.
As the expansion tank is the only place I see oil (not when I look in the block via the OFH coolant ports), I suspect the oil must have gotten into the coolant return line as I removed the OFH.
The oil could then be sucked up and run into the expansion tank.
Floating, and allowing the heavier coolant to sink, the circulation from the expansion tank to the engine remained 'clean'.
I'm going to add coolant to the expansion tank, siphon off as much oil as possible, remove the expansion tank and clean it.
Then I will flush the coolant to be sure any oil is dispelled.

Sadly, if that works out positively, I will return to sourcing the coolant/oil leak, which is in the area of; below the expansion tank, above the water pump, somewhere...

Maybe I'll toss the car on jack stands and hose off from underneath in the hopes to source the exact spot.


----

2008 335i Convertible, E93, N54, A/T (190,000+ km)
Wheels: 322 | Tires: R.275/35r18, F.245/40r18
TUNE: JB4 Map 6 | RACE BEF | 94 Octane | @19 PSI
BMS JB4 | BMS WMI @ 60/40 (CM10) | BMS 5" FMIC | BMS OCC | BMS DCI | BMS Cowel Filters
xHP Stage 3 (v2.0)
VRSF CP | HKS BOV
RB PCV Valve
NGK 5992 Plugs @ .020

Maintenance:
2018 - A/T Replaced | Plugs | Ign Coils | Walnut Blasting
2019 - VCG | OFHG & O-rings | Alternator w/ Clutch Pulley | Water Pump & T Stat
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codesx codesx is offline
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Default 05-05-2019, 07:44 AM

Further challenges.
I'm researching but also posting in case someone has a quick answer.

I reassembled the OFH with gaskets.
It looked like the oil I got in my coolant was just from when I first took it off, some poured into the upper radiator hose and got pulled into the reservoir tank, which appeared to have filtered it from circulating further as the oil floats and the coolant would exit the bottom as required.

That said, I have 3 codes I'm looking into.
I've read some that say the first code can relate to a tune. I just have JB4 and Pump BEF.
The second code may have happened when I was turning the ignition on and flooring it to start the coolant pump.
Third I've never run into yet.

2EE0 coolant temperature sensor
(Maybe it wigged out if it got oil on in? I didn't touch anything down here this year)

2CFB throttle valve, continuous adaptations
(Maybe this went wonk during me turning ignition on and flooring it for 10 seconds?)

2D09 Drosselklappe

Thanks!

Will also post back with what I find and results.

Currently trying to get her well and on the road again today.

Fresh oil and filter. (No coolant in previous)
Flushing coolant/was, then replacing.


----

2008 335i Convertible, E93, N54, A/T (190,000+ km)
Wheels: 322 | Tires: R.275/35r18, F.245/40r18
TUNE: JB4 Map 6 | RACE BEF | 94 Octane | @19 PSI
BMS JB4 | BMS WMI @ 60/40 (CM10) | BMS 5" FMIC | BMS OCC | BMS DCI | BMS Cowel Filters
xHP Stage 3 (v2.0)
VRSF CP | HKS BOV
RB PCV Valve
NGK 5992 Plugs @ .020

Maintenance:
2018 - A/T Replaced | Plugs | Ign Coils | Walnut Blasting
2019 - VCG | OFHG & O-rings | Alternator w/ Clutch Pulley | Water Pump & T Stat
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codesx codesx is offline
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Default 05-05-2019, 11:58 AM

Did gas peddle adaptation for throttle.
Only coolant code remains.
Hoping this will clear with coolant flush.

Removed coolant reservoir. Flushed with hot water and soap to remove all oil. Shook vigorously and repeated until very clean. Rinsed well. Reinstalled.

Used shop vac on coolant line feeding water pump, trying to reverse out any oil. Removed upper radiator hose and fed hot water in there during.

Now added copland flush (said to clear oil) added hot water. Ran pump for 10 mins. Started car and let get to 60c. Shut off, checking everything. Will let air escape. Finish bringing to temp. Then drain and rinse with hot water hose, top down. After 10 mins+ of that, will add coolant 50/50 and see if 2ee0 goes away. Hoping.

Note: shop vac awesome to drain before removing hoses.


----

2008 335i Convertible, E93, N54, A/T (190,000+ km)
Wheels: 322 | Tires: R.275/35r18, F.245/40r18
TUNE: JB4 Map 6 | RACE BEF | 94 Octane | @19 PSI
BMS JB4 | BMS WMI @ 60/40 (CM10) | BMS 5" FMIC | BMS OCC | BMS DCI | BMS Cowel Filters
xHP Stage 3 (v2.0)
VRSF CP | HKS BOV
RB PCV Valve
NGK 5992 Plugs @ .020

Maintenance:
2018 - A/T Replaced | Plugs | Ign Coils | Walnut Blasting
2019 - VCG | OFHG & O-rings | Alternator w/ Clutch Pulley | Water Pump & T Stat
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codesx codesx is offline
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Default 05-05-2019, 01:01 PM

Ok. Looks like leak is from water pump, or connections. Digging into this.

Are the connections common issue? Reasonable DIY?

The oil dripping is from elsewhere. Sourcing that as well.

Trying to recall if my rear main seal was done when I had a new transmission installed. Is that common to do at the same time? (I did not install trani)


----

2008 335i Convertible, E93, N54, A/T (190,000+ km)
Wheels: 322 | Tires: R.275/35r18, F.245/40r18
TUNE: JB4 Map 6 | RACE BEF | 94 Octane | @19 PSI
BMS JB4 | BMS WMI @ 60/40 (CM10) | BMS 5" FMIC | BMS OCC | BMS DCI | BMS Cowel Filters
xHP Stage 3 (v2.0)
VRSF CP | HKS BOV
RB PCV Valve
NGK 5992 Plugs @ .020

Maintenance:
2018 - A/T Replaced | Plugs | Ign Coils | Walnut Blasting
2019 - VCG | OFHG & O-rings | Alternator w/ Clutch Pulley | Water Pump & T Stat
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codesx codesx is offline
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Default 05-05-2019, 02:35 PM

If searched YouTube.
Does anyone have a video of the sound of a healthy water pump?
I know mine circulates well and holds the temperature well.
However, it's pretty audible when on without the car or fan running.
Wondering if a perfectly healthy one should be silent, or if it's pretty 'buzzy'.
I'm still focused on my fittings, but if it should be silent when pumping, then I'd replace.

Thanks!


----

2008 335i Convertible, E93, N54, A/T (190,000+ km)
Wheels: 322 | Tires: R.275/35r18, F.245/40r18
TUNE: JB4 Map 6 | RACE BEF | 94 Octane | @19 PSI
BMS JB4 | BMS WMI @ 60/40 (CM10) | BMS 5" FMIC | BMS OCC | BMS DCI | BMS Cowel Filters
xHP Stage 3 (v2.0)
VRSF CP | HKS BOV
RB PCV Valve
NGK 5992 Plugs @ .020

Maintenance:
2018 - A/T Replaced | Plugs | Ign Coils | Walnut Blasting
2019 - VCG | OFHG & O-rings | Alternator w/ Clutch Pulley | Water Pump & T Stat
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(#20)
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skirmozas skirmozas is offline
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Car: 2010 N54 BMW 135i
Default 05-06-2019, 05:40 AM

Not sure I have ever even heard a coolant pump run anyway, pump housings often crack on these motors, that's where the coolant might be coming from.

People often swap rear main when they service the clutch, just because the gearbox is already off. Don't really think it's necessary if the seal looks good and doesn't leak. I probably had a worst scenario oil leak, not sure why it could've leaked there and maybe that's a more common issue than I think it is...

N54 oil leak between crankcase and engine block - N54Tech.com - International Turbo Racing Discussion
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codesx codesx is offline
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Default 05-16-2019, 09:48 AM

Closing this thread up in the event it ever comes up in someones searches.

My previous pump was quite loud. It was also leaking.
It developed a crack while sitting in the garage over the winter.

A new one is installed which is very quiet. No coolant leaks at all.

As for the source of the oil, this was my fault when I removed the OFH, a good bit of oil ran into the upper rad hose and circulated to the coolant reservoir where it separated and stayed on the top of the coolant.

Now, on to other issues.


----

2008 335i Convertible, E93, N54, A/T (190,000+ km)
Wheels: 322 | Tires: R.275/35r18, F.245/40r18
TUNE: JB4 Map 6 | RACE BEF | 94 Octane | @19 PSI
BMS JB4 | BMS WMI @ 60/40 (CM10) | BMS 5" FMIC | BMS OCC | BMS DCI | BMS Cowel Filters
xHP Stage 3 (v2.0)
VRSF CP | HKS BOV
RB PCV Valve
NGK 5992 Plugs @ .020

Maintenance:
2018 - A/T Replaced | Plugs | Ign Coils | Walnut Blasting
2019 - VCG | OFHG & O-rings | Alternator w/ Clutch Pulley | Water Pump & T Stat
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