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Default Intake Cooling with Compressed Air? - 07-11-2018, 11:32 AM

Not supercharging, just cooling. I was overthinking car modding, specifically the idea of using a little nitrous pre-turbo to cool the intake air, increasing turbo efficiency and reducing intake manifold air temp. Plus it's nitrous, so more power. But I wouldn't want to use much, and of course it's one more thing to go wrong and blow the engine.

If the intake cooling effect of N2O is from reducing the pressure from compressed to uncompressed, could you do the same thing with compressed air? You could go crazy with the flow, like a "500 shot" equivalent, and I think it's pretty cheap to fill a cylinder.

They say if you can think of it it's been done, but I don't know.
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Default 08-02-2018, 11:49 AM

To be sure I understand, are you proposing using just compressed air?


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Default 08-02-2018, 12:01 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by LessIsMore
To be sure I understand, are you proposing using just compressed air?
Yeah.
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Nanometer Nanometer is offline
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Default 08-02-2018, 01:52 PM

I am sure there's a way to do it. But it wouldn't be super effective as you would only get the cooling properties, and not the added benefit of high concentration of oxygen per volume than standard atmosphere. You could probably mickey mouse a special cooling setup for the intercooler to circulate the expanding nos, but not actually go into the intake itself. But personally I would be concerned with temperatures that cold being circulated in a condenser like product, it might cause uneven expanding and potentially cracks. Personally, I would like to see super cooled methanol, or even chilled fuel which is actually performed in some drag racing classes. similar effect to chilled water intercooler(bag of ice/dry ice etc).


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Default 08-02-2018, 02:25 PM

If I have a bunch of money I don't want I'll have to try it. Basically get a simple dry nitrous kit and rig it to take scuba tanks and spray at full throttle. What could go wrong...
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Default 03-31-2019, 03:19 PM

You're thinking of the phase change principal. Like refrigerant that gets compressed then expands. The fast expansion causes a profound temperature drop. In order to see that function used in the way you're thinking of, you'd have to compress and expand magnitudes more O2 than is already going into the engine normally. Plus means to hold, then control that amount of extra O2. If you compress O2 hard enough, it turns into a liquid which you could then contain and meter out. Spraying liquid oxygen in the engine would drop the temperature and effect the combustion process. Nitrous Oxide is 2 oxygen molecules plus 1 nitrogen molecule in liquid form. The N is added to further free the air. Now you have a freezing, oxygen rich liquid being injected into a combustion chamber that can be metered and measured to taste.
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Default 03-31-2019, 04:42 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by blackhat75
You're thinking of the phase change principal. Like refrigerant that gets compressed then expands. The fast expansion causes a profound temperature drop. In order to see that function used in the way you're thinking of, you'd have to compress and expand magnitudes more O2 than is already going into the engine normally. Plus means to hold, then control that amount of extra O2. If you compress O2 hard enough, it turns into a liquid which you could then contain and meter out. Spraying liquid oxygen in the engine would drop the temperature and effect the combustion process. Nitrous Oxide is 2 oxygen molecules plus 1 nitrogen molecule in liquid form. The N is added to further free the air. Now you have a freezing, oxygen rich liquid being injected into a combustion chamber that can be metered and measured to taste.
With just air though, you aren't going to change the ratio of oxygen as you would with nitrous (or just oxygen), so you don't have to worry about tuning or blowing up your engine. Also, not all of the air used for combustion would be precompressed in the hypothetical. Purely about cooling.
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Default 03-31-2019, 06:34 PM

Do you realize how much air you’d need? Somewhere in the neighborhood of 1000cfm. What compressor is going to be able to keep up with that? Certainly not one you’re going to want in the car running constantly. The weight of the compressor and fuel would negate any gains you get, plus more.


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Default 03-31-2019, 07:33 PM

I've seen questionable results from guys using intercooler spray bars.
If you're changing the temperature of air being compressed by the engine, you're definitely changing the oxygen ratio to fuel. That's why we have intercooler's in the first place; to try to drop the temperature down as much as possible cause colder air is more molecular-ly dense. More air, more fuel to match resulting in more power.
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Default 03-31-2019, 07:58 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike_L
Do you realize how much air you’d need? Somewhere in the neighborhood of 1000cfm. What compressor is going to be able to keep up with that? Certainly not one you’re going to want in the car running constantly. The weight of the compressor and fuel would negate any gains you get, plus more.
I don't know the amount of air needed, but I was only thinking about using compressed tanks like scuba. They've done supercharging like that, see here: Compressed Air Supercharging - YouTube ...which is more complex and probably takes a lot more air than what I'm talking about.

blackhat, yeah, a little more oxygen, like winter vs. summer, but not on the level of using nitrous.
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