JB4tech.com - International Turbo Tuning Discussion
(#1351)
Old
cuzed2 cuzed2 is offline
Junior Member
 
Posts: 40
Join Date: Apr 2021
Car: '21 Mazda 3 Turbo
Default 2.5T Manual - 06-07-2022, 11:15 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by sm1ke
I have a copy of the Engine Workshop Manual for the 2.5T if you need it.
I have no immediate need, but I do keep my vehicles for ~10 years and would be interested....
Reply With Quote
(#1352)
Old
SixPackABS SixPackABS is offline
Junior Member
 
Posts: 40
Join Date: Sep 2021
Car: Mazda 3 Turbo Hatchback (M3TH)
Default 06-07-2022, 05:41 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by gogogad
Hello all, I finished installing the jb4 tuner into my 2021 mazda 3 turbo the other day, and I was super curious where other folks are mounting the box? I looked thru this thread a bit, but its 54 pages and haven't made it thru all of them yet to see if there were any pictures. I have mine *****d between the fuse box and the frame. Used a couple of zip ties to sort of keep it in place. But not super satisfied. Thanks!

Velcroed and ziptied.



M3TH user
TransModel = A Mazda but identifies itself as a BMW
Reply With Quote
(#1353)
Old
Akera Akera is offline
New Member
 
Posts: 1
Join Date: Jan 2022
Car: CX5 2.5T
Default 06-07-2022, 05:43 PM

WOW this JB4 is awesome on my CX5T
Car drives like it should have from the factory.
Reply With Quote
(#1354)
Old
9520G 9520G is offline
Junior Member
 
Posts: 40
Join Date: Jan 2022
Car: Mazda 3 TURBO AWD
Default 06-07-2022, 08:09 PM

Terry any news on the catch can?
Reply With Quote
(#1355)
Old
9520G 9520G is offline
Junior Member
 
Posts: 40
Join Date: Jan 2022
Car: Mazda 3 TURBO AWD
Default 06-07-2022, 08:21 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by SixPackABS
Velcroed and ziptied.

Im sorry to say but personally that look terrible. Mine is not even visible.
Reply With Quote
(#1356)
Old
sm1ke's Avatar
sm1ke sm1ke is offline
Junior Member
 
Posts: 35
Join Date: May 2021
Car: 2018 Mazda CX-9 Signature
Default 06-08-2022, 09:18 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by cuzed2
I have no immediate need, but I do keep my vehicles for ~10 years and would be interested....
PM sent!


2018 Mazda CX-9 Signature
Reply With Quote
(#1357)
Old
Turki Turki is offline
Junior Member
 
Posts: 33
Join Date: Sep 2021
Car: 2020 Mazda 6 Signature
Default 06-08-2022, 06:09 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by sm1ke
I have a copy of the Engine Workshop Manual for the 2.5T if you need it.
Is it a soft copy? If it is yes please i will so glad if you send it!
Reply With Quote
(#1358)
Old
Turki Turki is offline
Junior Member
 
Posts: 33
Join Date: Sep 2021
Car: 2020 Mazda 6 Signature
Talking 06-08-2022, 06:14 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by sm1ke
I have a copy of the Engine Workshop Manual for the 2.5T if you need it.
Nevermind i just found the manual you sent in another forum, thank you
Reply With Quote
(#1359)
Old
tymwalk tymwalk is offline
Junior Member
 
Posts: 82
Join Date: Sep 2021
Car: 2021 Mazda CX-5 Turbo Carbon Edition
Default updates - 06-10-2022, 06:40 AM

Does anyone have information on the following?

1.) How to calculate the actual load since the logged load is the manipulated value?

2.) When PWM for WMI will be available?

3.) When can the IAT2 for turbo outlet temperature be logged? PID 220520 and equation A-40 for degrees C.
Reply With Quote
(#1360)
Old
danbfree's Avatar
danbfree danbfree is offline
Junior Member
 
Posts: 52
Join Date: Dec 2021
Car: 2017 Golf TSi 1.8L
Default 06-10-2022, 06:44 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by tymwalk
Does anyone have information on the following?

1.) How to calculate the actual load since the logged load is the manipulated value?

2.) When PWM for WMI will be available?

3.) When can the IAT2 for turbo outlet temperature be logged? PID 220520 and equation A-40 for degrees C.
I can tell you about 3. - until there is a flash tune to overcome it, right from a cold start the engine, for some reason, wants to keep IAT2 between 110-120F, and will keep active shutters closed and intercooler H2O flow stopped until it's reached, then cycle them as needed to try to maintain that. See my post HERE with pic in how the guy tested it.


Mazda 3/CX-30 BETA tester BMS267264 - '22 Platinum Quartz Metallic M3TH - Performance mods: 235/40/18 on 18x8 wheels, strut tower brace, JB4, CorkSport Intake w/heatshield, CorkSport axle-back exhaust, waiting for mid-section on backorder.
Reply With Quote
(#1361)
Old
tymwalk tymwalk is offline
Junior Member
 
Posts: 82
Join Date: Sep 2021
Car: 2021 Mazda CX-5 Turbo Carbon Edition
Default 06-10-2022, 06:55 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by danbfree
I can tell you about 3. - until there is a flash tune to overcome it, right from a cold start the engine, for some reason, wants to keep IAT2 between 110-120F, and will keep active shutters closed and intercooler H2O flow stopped until it's reached, then cycle them as needed to try to maintain that.
If the JB4 is logging it, then you could calculate the turbo efficiency with air load and temperatures in mind. The post you refer to is logging with stock boost. No one has logged intake manifold temperatures and shared the results while under higher boost.

Even Terry has mentioned that the IAT currently logged is pointless.

In my CX-5 2.5T, that PID will be downstream of my water methanol injection and I will be able to measure cooling efficiency from spraying.

Thanks for the reply.
Reply With Quote
(#1362)
Old
danbfree's Avatar
danbfree danbfree is offline
Junior Member
 
Posts: 52
Join Date: Dec 2021
Car: 2017 Golf TSi 1.8L
Default 06-10-2022, 07:02 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by tymwalk
If the JB4 is logging it, then you could calculate the turbo efficiency with air load and temperatures in mind. The post you refer to is logging with stock boost. No one has logged intake manifold temperatures and shared the results while under higher boost.

Even Terry has mentioned that the IAT currently logged is pointless.

In my CX-5 2.5T, that PID will be downstream of my water methanol injection and I will be able to measure cooling efficiency from spraying.

Thanks for the reply.
Well, the post shows how it keeps a high temp, so to me that means it can cycle the air flaps and IC H2O (on the 3) more if it needs to, I hope that's what it is and not that it was just heat soaked there at the end of the cycle! But, it could mean you may need an actual ECU tune to overcome how it wants to keep the air warm or remove the active flaps and how would the stock tune react to that? I can say, and you may or may not know this already, there are 2 tuning companies working on a full tune for the turbo... But your knowledge is well above mine and mine is already a bit higher than most on here, hopefully I can glean more info off you!


Mazda 3/CX-30 BETA tester BMS267264 - '22 Platinum Quartz Metallic M3TH - Performance mods: 235/40/18 on 18x8 wheels, strut tower brace, JB4, CorkSport Intake w/heatshield, CorkSport axle-back exhaust, waiting for mid-section on backorder.
Reply With Quote
(#1363)
Old
tymwalk tymwalk is offline
Junior Member
 
Posts: 82
Join Date: Sep 2021
Car: 2021 Mazda CX-5 Turbo Carbon Edition
Default 06-10-2022, 10:12 AM

Welcome to the Mazda community, there is a lot of bad information out so always use a questioning attitude when someone is providing insight (myself included).

Here is my opinion on the Mazda 2.5T:

The ECU uses torque management for most of the logic. A large part of the torque management was load (air g/s). The JB4 defeated this issue with the MAF connection. Now the ECU doesn’t lower the boost target when the MAF sensor sees greater than 190g/s at the middle of the powerband. It is my opinion that the JB4 has allowed the 2.5T to see the limits of what the stock turbo can do boost target wise. The JB4 on the 2.5T is inconsistent in power delivery because of the torque management logic. The JB4 only intercepts a small portion of the control system (load, boost sensor 1 and boost sensor 2).

For the two “companies” developing a tuning solution, the two are going in extremely different directions. Dramatuned is working on using Mazdaedit to identify the tables in the ECU necessary to remove load limits and modify torque management. The torque management system takes in these variables: temperature, steering angle, load, ignition (knock), etc. VF Tuner is working on a tuning software that already has the tables defined. VF Tuner is not going to launch the software until it is successful at defining the tables along with a strategy on how to modify them successfully. Success being measured by the ability to defeat the torque management logic. Just because you edit a table doesn’t mean that the car will perform any better.

My goal for the Mazda 2.5T is to run a stack tune. I want to flash the ECU with an ignition timing tune for 93 octane fuel at stock boost targets. The JB4 will be used for boost control and water methanol injection. The current ignition strategy is not knock sensitive with fuel with octane greater than 92. That is why the JB4 has been successful at raising the stock turbo to it's limit without WMI/ethanol or additional cooling.

To justify any more time on the dyno, I need pulse width modulation control over the WMI, the ability to log IAT2, and an ability to know what the actual load is.
Reply With Quote
(#1364)
Old
danbfree's Avatar
danbfree danbfree is offline
Junior Member
 
Posts: 52
Join Date: Dec 2021
Car: 2017 Golf TSi 1.8L
Default 06-10-2022, 10:37 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by tymwalk
Welcome to the Mazda community, there is a lot of bad information out so always use a questioning attitude when someone is providing insight (myself included).

Here is my opinion on the Mazda 2.5T:

The ECU uses torque management for most of the logic. A large part of the torque management was load (air g/s). The JB4 defeated this issue with the MAF connection. Now the ECU doesn’t lower the boost target when the MAF sensor sees greater than 190g/s at the middle of the powerband. It is my opinion that the JB4 has allowed the 2.5T to see the limits of what the stock turbo can do boost target wise. The JB4 on the 2.5T is inconsistent in power delivery because of the torque management logic. The JB4 only intercepts a small portion of the control system (load, boost sensor 1 and boost sensor 2).

For the two “companies” developing a tuning solution, the two are going in extremely different directions. Dramatuned is working on using Mazdaedit to identify the tables in the ECU necessary to remove load limits and modify torque management. The torque management system takes in these variables: temperature, steering angle, load, ignition (knock), etc. VF Tuner is working on a tuning software that already has the tables defined. VF Tuner is not going to launch the software until it is successful at defining the tables along with a strategy on how to modify them successfully. Success being measured by the ability to defeat the torque management logic. Just because you edit a table doesn’t mean that the car will perform any better.

My goal for the Mazda 2.5T is to run a stack tune. I want to flash the ECU with an ignition timing tune for 93 octane fuel at stock boost targets. The JB4 will be used for boost control and water methanol injection. The current ignition strategy is not knock sensitive with fuel with octane greater than 92. That is why the JB4 has been successful at raising the stock turbo to it's limit without WMI/ethanol or additional cooling.

To justify any more time on the dyno, I need pulse width modulation control over the WMI, the ability to log IAT2, and an ability to know what the actual load is.
Thanks so much for the tech info! To summarize, if the MAF sensor is reading enough load in the mid powerband, it will ignore the fake lower reading sent to it and not add any additional boost? I definitely have seen very inconsistent readings among my logs... And as far as the 2 tuners, Dramatuned is reading the actual Mazda 3/2.5T tables and modifying those while VF tuner is starting with a preset table, which is just a generic 2.5T table, then try to be able to modify them and *then* keep experimenting with changes until they actually improve performance consistently?

Either way, thanks again for the more in-depth knowledge, it's *really* difficult to find much tuning info on these! Anyway, these JB4's do really work great as a stack, on my Golf I even used a 91 octane flash tune, then used the JB4 to custom map a couple of settings, one for 93 and one for e30, each with some progressively additional boost so I essentially had 3 grades of fuel tunes on tap. I hope that eventually I can transform my JB4 for the Mazda into something similar!


Mazda 3/CX-30 BETA tester BMS267264 - '22 Platinum Quartz Metallic M3TH - Performance mods: 235/40/18 on 18x8 wheels, strut tower brace, JB4, CorkSport Intake w/heatshield, CorkSport axle-back exhaust, waiting for mid-section on backorder.
Reply With Quote
(#1365)
Old
tymwalk tymwalk is offline
Junior Member
 
Posts: 82
Join Date: Sep 2021
Car: 2021 Mazda CX-5 Turbo Carbon Edition
Default 06-10-2022, 11:59 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by danbfree
Thanks so much for the tech info!
For the MAF, the ECU expects to be able to control the load with the throttle %. If the throttle % isn't lowering the load fast enough, it will cut the boost target. It doesn't ignore the boost sensor.

Both companies use the 2.5T ECU rom for tuning purposes. VF tuner is a software that is expanding to include Mazdas. Dramatune is a tuner using Mazdaedit from Epifan to tune the 2.5T. Mazdaedit doesn't have table definitions so dramatune has to reverse engineer them.
Reply With Quote
(#1366)
Old
danbfree's Avatar
danbfree danbfree is offline
Junior Member
 
Posts: 52
Join Date: Dec 2021
Car: 2017 Golf TSi 1.8L
Default 06-10-2022, 08:26 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by tymwalk
For the MAF, the ECU expects to be able to control the load with the throttle %. If the throttle % isn't lowering the load fast enough, it will cut the boost target. It doesn't ignore the boost sensor.

Both companies use the 2.5T ECU rom for tuning purposes. VF tuner is a software that is expanding to include Mazdas. Dramatune is a tuner using Mazdaedit from Epifan to tune the 2.5T. Mazdaedit doesn't have table definitions so dramatune has to reverse engineer them.
Thanks for clarifying and hope to see you around here more with these knowledge drops!


Mazda 3/CX-30 BETA tester BMS267264 - '22 Platinum Quartz Metallic M3TH - Performance mods: 235/40/18 on 18x8 wheels, strut tower brace, JB4, CorkSport Intake w/heatshield, CorkSport axle-back exhaust, waiting for mid-section on backorder.
Reply With Quote
(#1367)
Old
cuzed2 cuzed2 is offline
Junior Member
 
Posts: 40
Join Date: Apr 2021
Car: '21 Mazda 3 Turbo
Default 06-12-2022, 11:44 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by sm1ke
I have a copy of the Engine Workshop Manual for the 2.5T if you need it.
@sm1ke

Thank you so much for sharing this
Reply With Quote
(#1368)
Old
Slow3 Slow3 is offline
New Member
 
Posts: 28
Join Date: Nov 2021
Car: 21 Mazda 3 turbo awd
Default 06-18-2022, 01:04 PM

?
Reply With Quote
(#1369)
Old
Terry @ BMS's Avatar
Terry @ BMS Terry @ BMS is offline
Tuner
 
Posts: 34,330
Join Date: Jan 2008
Default 06-19-2022, 09:30 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by tymwalk
Does anyone have information on the following?


2.) When PWM for WMI will be available?

3.) When can the IAT2 for turbo outlet temperature be logged? PID 220520 and equation A-40 for degrees C.
For WMI PWM control I can enable that at any time, have the FSB installed and up and running?

On IAT2 I'll see what I can do this week. That is pre-intercooler charge air temp?


Burger Motorsports
Home of the JB4 the worlds most popular turbocharged tuning system!

It is the sole responsibility of the purchaser and installer of any BMS part to employ the correct installation techniques required to ensure the proper operation of BMS parts, and BMS disclaims any and all liability for any part failure due to improper installation or use. It is the sole responsibility of the customer to verify that the use of their vehicle and items purchased comply with federal, state and local regulations. BMS claims no legal federal, state or local certification concerning pollution controlled motor vehicles or mandated emissions requirements. BMS products labeled for use only in competition racing vehicles may only be used on competition racing vehicles operated exclusively on a closed course in conjunction with a sanctioned racing event, in accordance with all federal and state laws, and may never be operated on public roads/highways. Please click here for more information on legal requirements related to use of BMS parts.
Reply With Quote
(#1370)
Old
Terry @ BMS's Avatar
Terry @ BMS Terry @ BMS is offline
Tuner
 
Posts: 34,330
Join Date: Jan 2008
Default 06-19-2022, 11:05 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by tymwalk
Welcome to the Mazda community, there is a lot of bad information out so always use a questioning attitude when someone is providing insight (myself included).

Here is my opinion on the Mazda 2.5T:

The ECU uses torque management for most of the logic. A large part of the torque management was load (air g/s). The JB4 defeated this issue with the MAF connection. Now the ECU doesn’t lower the boost target when the MAF sensor sees greater than 190g/s at the middle of the powerband. It is my opinion that the JB4 has allowed the 2.5T to see the limits of what the stock turbo can do boost target wise. The JB4 on the 2.5T is inconsistent in power delivery because of the torque management logic. The JB4 only intercepts a small portion of the control system (load, boost sensor 1 and boost sensor 2).

For the two “companies” developing a tuning solution, the two are going in extremely different directions. Dramatuned is working on using Mazdaedit to identify the tables in the ECU necessary to remove load limits and modify torque management. The torque management system takes in these variables: temperature, steering angle, load, ignition (knock), etc. VF Tuner is working on a tuning software that already has the tables defined. VF Tuner is not going to launch the software until it is successful at defining the tables along with a strategy on how to modify them successfully. Success being measured by the ability to defeat the torque management logic. Just because you edit a table doesn’t mean that the car will perform any better.

My goal for the Mazda 2.5T is to run a stack tune. I want to flash the ECU with an ignition timing tune for 93 octane fuel at stock boost targets. The JB4 will be used for boost control and water methanol injection. The current ignition strategy is not knock sensitive with fuel with octane greater than 92. That is why the JB4 has been successful at raising the stock turbo to it's limit without WMI/ethanol or additional cooling.

To justify any more time on the dyno, I need pulse width modulation control over the WMI, the ability to log IAT2, and an ability to know what the actual load is.
With the JB4 we have the option of applying a variety of tuning techniques. The current Mazda maps are what we refer to as "additive" based, meaning we're adding boost in addition to the factory target. And in doing so we're calculating and adding in a proportional MAF offset as well, to keep the ECU happy and balanced. If it comes out of balance (MAF offset not equal to boost offset) then you end up with a plausibility check engine light generally.

The other approach we take, which is not "live" in Mazda firmware, but active for our testing, is called absolute mode. In this mode the JB4 sets a boost profile, we read the current load/torque targets off the ECU, and the JB4 does the math on the fly to compute the spoofed figures back to the ECU to have it hit the exact boost target the JB4 is requesting. It's working fine in testing but since the platform is effectively turbo limited rather than tuning limited, I haven't made releasing them a priority. But this is the way we'll handle all upgraded turbos for example.


Burger Motorsports
Home of the JB4 the worlds most popular turbocharged tuning system!

It is the sole responsibility of the purchaser and installer of any BMS part to employ the correct installation techniques required to ensure the proper operation of BMS parts, and BMS disclaims any and all liability for any part failure due to improper installation or use. It is the sole responsibility of the customer to verify that the use of their vehicle and items purchased comply with federal, state and local regulations. BMS claims no legal federal, state or local certification concerning pollution controlled motor vehicles or mandated emissions requirements. BMS products labeled for use only in competition racing vehicles may only be used on competition racing vehicles operated exclusively on a closed course in conjunction with a sanctioned racing event, in accordance with all federal and state laws, and may never be operated on public roads/highways. Please click here for more information on legal requirements related to use of BMS parts.
Reply With Quote
(#1371)
Old
tymwalk tymwalk is offline
Junior Member
 
Posts: 82
Join Date: Sep 2021
Car: 2021 Mazda CX-5 Turbo Carbon Edition
Default 06-19-2022, 11:40 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Terry @ BMS
For WMI PWM control I can enable that at any time, have the FSB installed and up and running?

On IAT2 I'll see what I can do this week. That is pre-intercooler charge air temp?
Terry, I have the FSB installed and running. I am wanting to dial in the flow versus all on or off. Do I need to do anything to receive PWM or will you push it out to the firmware library?

The IAT2 PID for the Mazda 3 and CX-30 is pre-intercooler, but for the CX-5,9 and the Mazda 6, it is post intercooler. It lines up with the way the MAP connections are for the product.
Reply With Quote
(#1372)
Old
Terry @ BMS's Avatar
Terry @ BMS Terry @ BMS is offline
Tuner
 
Posts: 34,330
Join Date: Jan 2008
Default 06-19-2022, 01:38 PM

OK I adjusted the IAT logging channels in v5 so load it up and log so we can evaluate.

TEMP_IAT should now be charge air temperature post intercooler. "trans temp" has 0x05, 0x20, which on the Mazda3 appears to be pre-intercooler post-turbo temperature. And I moved MAF temperature over to ign6 just to have it somewhere.

On the WMI PWM control I'll add that to the live firmware this week.


Burger Motorsports
Home of the JB4 the worlds most popular turbocharged tuning system!

It is the sole responsibility of the purchaser and installer of any BMS part to employ the correct installation techniques required to ensure the proper operation of BMS parts, and BMS disclaims any and all liability for any part failure due to improper installation or use. It is the sole responsibility of the customer to verify that the use of their vehicle and items purchased comply with federal, state and local regulations. BMS claims no legal federal, state or local certification concerning pollution controlled motor vehicles or mandated emissions requirements. BMS products labeled for use only in competition racing vehicles may only be used on competition racing vehicles operated exclusively on a closed course in conjunction with a sanctioned racing event, in accordance with all federal and state laws, and may never be operated on public roads/highways. Please click here for more information on legal requirements related to use of BMS parts.
Reply With Quote
(#1373)
Old
tymwalk tymwalk is offline
Junior Member
 
Posts: 82
Join Date: Sep 2021
Car: 2021 Mazda CX-5 Turbo Carbon Edition
Default 06-19-2022, 02:33 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Terry @ BMS
OK I adjusted the IAT logging channels in v5 so load it up and log so we can evaluate.

TEMP_IAT should now be charge air temperature post intercooler. "trans temp" has 0x05, 0x20, which on the Mazda3 appears to be pre-intercooler post-turbo temperature. And I moved MAF temperature over to ign6 just to have it somewhere.

On the WMI PWM control I'll add that to the live firmware this week.
I look forward to the PWM control. I have attached a log on V5 with my CX-5. Thank you for adding the additional temperatures. I'm interested to dive into the logs more when I have time.
Attached Files
File Type: csv P3_M2_R5_220619_1702.csv (16.6 KB, 28 views)
Reply With Quote
(#1374)
Old
SixPackABS SixPackABS is offline
Junior Member
 
Posts: 40
Join Date: Sep 2021
Car: Mazda 3 Turbo Hatchback (M3TH)
Default 06-19-2022, 07:10 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Terry @ BMS
OK I adjusted the IAT logging channels in v5 so load it up and log so we can evaluate.

TEMP_IAT should now be charge air temperature post intercooler. "trans temp" has 0x05, 0x20, which on the Mazda3 appears to be pre-intercooler post-turbo temperature. And I moved MAF temperature over to ign6 just to have it somewhere.

On the WMI PWM control I'll add that to the live firmware this week.

is V5 a new firmware update now?


M3TH user
TransModel = A Mazda but identifies itself as a BMW
Reply With Quote
(#1375)
Old
Terry @ BMS's Avatar
Terry @ BMS Terry @ BMS is offline
Tuner
 
Posts: 34,330
Join Date: Jan 2008
Default 06-20-2022, 09:50 AM

v5 is in the app for testing. Only changes are to logging channels as described above.


Burger Motorsports
Home of the JB4 the worlds most popular turbocharged tuning system!

It is the sole responsibility of the purchaser and installer of any BMS part to employ the correct installation techniques required to ensure the proper operation of BMS parts, and BMS disclaims any and all liability for any part failure due to improper installation or use. It is the sole responsibility of the customer to verify that the use of their vehicle and items purchased comply with federal, state and local regulations. BMS claims no legal federal, state or local certification concerning pollution controlled motor vehicles or mandated emissions requirements. BMS products labeled for use only in competition racing vehicles may only be used on competition racing vehicles operated exclusively on a closed course in conjunction with a sanctioned racing event, in accordance with all federal and state laws, and may never be operated on public roads/highways. Please click here for more information on legal requirements related to use of BMS parts.
Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump




vBulletin Skin developed by: vBStyles.com
Copyright © 2007 - 2022, JB4tech.com