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vernors vernors is offline
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Default Considering this set up, the good, the bad, the ugly?? JB4, FMIC ++ - 10-24-2017, 11:35 AM

Got a late model N54 vehicle and am planning to go the following route.

JB4
FMIC
BMS DCI
30% to 35% E85 Mix
91 Octane (CA)

Possible Addition:
Ethanol Analyzer/Sensor Kit
BOV (can I keep stock, or must replace?)

I've heard that the JB4 Map 5 is an auto-tune that will provide an 'on the fly' adjustment based on fuel type which the JB4 already senses through one of the OEM sensors....

There was some mention of Map 5 only being affective in gears 3 and 4, which I think is wrong....but want to clarify. I believe that Map 5 needs 'set up' time by monitoring WOT pulls in gears 3 and 4, but otherwise operates in all rev ranges and gears....true?

Also Is an Ethanol Analyzer needed or recommended? Is there a benefit by adding the Analyzer/Sensor kit?

Lastly, does the addition of a backend flash create a better overall set up? By better, I mean safer (due to JB4 safety features) and also more powerful/more appropriate because of the specific bolt ons I have...be it MHD or another one. I'm a little unclear on the JB4/Secondary Flash concept....

Thanks for the help, yeah lots of questions but you all know your stuff so I appreciate any advice.

Last edited by vernors; 10-24-2017 at 11:47 AM..
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Default 10-24-2017, 11:46 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by vernors
Got a late model N54 vehicle and am planning to go the following route.

JB4
FMIC
BMS DCI
30% to 35% E85 Mix
91 Octane (CA)

Possible Addition:
Ethanol Analyzer/Sensor Kit

I've heard that the JB4 Map 5 is an auto-tune that will provide an 'on the fly' adjustment based on fuel type which the JB4 already senses through one of the OEM sensors....

There was some mention of Map 5 only being affective in gears 3 and 4, which I think is wrong....but want to clarify. I believe that Map 5 needs 'set up' time by monitoring WOT pulls in gears 3 and 4, but otherwise operates in all rev ranges and gears....true?

Also Is an Ethanol Analyzer needed or recommended? Is there a benefit by adding the Analyzer/Sensor kit?

Lastly, does the addition of a backend flash create a better overall set up? By better, I mean safer (due to JB4 safety features) and also more powerful/more appropriate because of the specific bolt ons I have...be it MHD or another one. I'm a little unclear on the JB4/Secondary Flash concept....

Thanks for the help, yeah lots of questions but you all are know your stuff so I appreciate any advice.

ive got a 2008 535xi , cobb stage 2 with AR ** C/T less , ER fmic , ER chargepipe , forger diverter valves and DCI,,,, what a ridiculous set up. looooooove it . next spring I am getting cobb custome tune and will dyno on the awd dyno in town and then I can advise about numbers
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vernors vernors is offline
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Default 10-24-2017, 11:50 AM

Nice set up! I'm likely to do much the same, except for the down ppes.

I live fairly close to Evolution Racewerks and stopped by their shop, great people and very helpful. I've heard that they are the only ones that make a FMIC for the 535i....saw that the 7" VRSF can technically work but has to basically hang from zip ties....which I'd rather avoid.

Is ER the only one that makes a drop in cooler? Also, how loud are your diverter/BOV? I want to keep things as quiet as possible, rather have a bad ass sleeper than call attention.
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Default 10-24-2017, 11:57 AM

lucky bastard to be close to them hahaha , yes very good to deal with and im way up here they made it so easy I felt like they were a local vender and very knowledgable , I saw that 7" one as well and said the same thing . the 5er from ER is doing just fine on my set up
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Default 10-24-2017, 12:00 PM

the diverter valves from forge are identical to the way the stock work however of course can handle way way more boost and they are much stronger, no sound maybe the odd sound on a hard pull and boost in power
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Default 10-24-2017, 12:01 PM

but no whoosh like a blow off valve (vent to atmosphere style), regular aggressive driving just power no sound
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vernors vernors is offline
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Default 10-24-2017, 12:03 PM

Yeah, also very close to Burger and will probably head up to see them next week. 535i is being delivered in a month or so and am pre-planning upgrades.

ER said that they are going to have a Black Friday sale, and that it's the only day of the year that they sell direct to the public. I'd bet Burger also puts something together that is enticing. Will see.

I'm a huge proponent of buying used gear, and would prefer to find an FMIC from ER on the used market....but since the E60 crowd that modifies is much smaller than the E9X group, I'm not sure if (or how soon) I'll find one. $1,000 new for an FMIC seems pretty pricey...fingers crossed that something pops up.

Great to know about the diverters, I'll probably add them to to the list.
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Default 10-24-2017, 12:06 PM

I got the forge diverter valves, they don't make sounds
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Default 10-24-2017, 12:09 PM

ive only heard a few squeaks (not sure how to describe ) but that's from a good push burst of throttle
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Default 10-24-2017, 12:11 PM

Ok, good to know about the above. Now need to figure out this part:

Quote:
Originally Posted by vernors

Possible Addition:
Ethanol Analyzer/Sensor Kit

I've heard that the JB4 Map 5 is an auto-tune that will provide an 'on the fly' adjustment based on fuel type which the JB4 already senses through one of the OEM sensors....

There was some mention of Map 5 only being affective in gears 3 and 4, which I think is wrong....but want to clarify. I believe that Map 5 needs 'set up' time by monitoring WOT pulls in gears 3 and 4, but otherwise operates in all rev ranges and gears....true?

Also Is an Ethanol Analyzer needed or recommended? Is there a benefit by adding the Analyzer/Sensor kit?

Lastly, does the addition of a backend flash create a better overall set up? By better, I mean safer (due to JB4 safety features) and also more powerful/more appropriate because of the specific bolt ons I have...be it MHD or another one. I'm a little unclear on the JB4/Secondary Flash concept....
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Default 10-24-2017, 12:18 PM

I know nothing about jb4 ive been cobb form day 1, so easy to use and on the fly stuff and gauges easy to view and choose different gauges to view even monitor in real time when driving or pushing the car. as well the error codes if one or multiple show up you can easily know whats going on an fix it or diagnose and issue, saved me a lot of money form mechanics cause mechanics can say what they want to you when you half engine light limp mode it over to them.
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Default 10-24-2017, 12:23 PM

Solid and easy to run setup. You won't be disappointed.

JB4 reads/deletes codes, logs, etc, just like Cobb.


Burger Motorsports
Home of the Worlds fastest N20s, N54s, N55s, S55s, N63s, and S63s!

It is the sole responsibility of the purchaser and installer of any BMS part to employ the correct installation techniques required to ensure the proper operation of BMS parts, and BMS disclaims any and all liability for any part failure due to improper installation or use. It is the sole responsibility of the customer to verify that the use of their vehicle and items purchased comply with federal, state and local regulations. BMS claims no legal federal, state or local certification concerning pollution controlled motor vehicles or mandated emissions requirements. BMS products labeled for use only in competition racing vehicles may only be used on competition racing vehicles operated exclusively on a closed course in conjunction with a sanctioned racing event, in accordance with all federal and state laws, and may never be operated on public roads/highways. Please click here for more information on legal requirements related to use of BMS parts.
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Default 10-24-2017, 12:26 PM

Hey Terry, yeah I'm likely sold on the JB4...and while there are a ton of them on the used market I'm waiting for you guys to shock me with such a great deal on Black Friday that I can't open the wallet quick enough : )
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Default 10-24-2017, 12:28 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by vernors
Got a late model N54 vehicle and am planning to go the following route.

JB4
FMIC
BMS DCI
30% to 35% E85 Mix
91 Octane (CA)

Possible Addition:
Ethanol Analyzer/Sensor Kit
BOV (can I keep stock, or must replace?)

I've heard that the JB4 Map 5 is an auto-tune that will provide an 'on the fly' adjustment based on fuel type which the JB4 already senses through one of the OEM sensors....

There was some mention of Map 5 only being affective in gears 3 and 4, which I think is wrong....but want to clarify. I believe that Map 5 needs 'set up' time by monitoring WOT pulls in gears 3 and 4, but otherwise operates in all rev ranges and gears....true?

Also Is an Ethanol Analyzer needed or recommended? Is there a benefit by adding the Analyzer/Sensor kit?

Lastly, does the addition of a backend flash create a better overall set up? By better, I mean safer (due to JB4 safety features) and also more powerful/more appropriate because of the specific bolt ons I have...be it MHD or another one. I'm a little unclear on the JB4/Secondary Flash concept....

Thanks for the help, yeah lots of questions but you all know your stuff so I appreciate any advice.
I would consider a charge pipe a must have with what you list you want (BEF and E30). I was running just the off the shelf JB4 map 2 on a cold morning when my charge pipe broke (when they break they blow apart in a loud BANG!) then limped home and parked the car for 3 days waiting for the new charge pipe.

I ran my N54 for 4 years with a JB4 and a year now with the BEF. The BEF has a smoother power delivery, and higher boost thresholds. Its inexpensive in comparison to what it gives you IMO.

Map 5 works the way you are describing without a BEF. A BEF increases maps 1 and 2 both by 2psi. I prefer map 2 with a BEF over map 5.


2010 E88 135i manual/sport package

KWV3'3, M3 arms | ARC 8's 235/275 PS4s | MFactory Flywheel w/ Spec Stage 2+| AR downp*pes | Magnaflows | 7" VRSF IC| RB Next Gen +| inlets/outlets | ER Charge pipe| Tial BOV| BMS intake| JB4 with BEF | fuel-it stage 2 bucketless and Holley hydromat | NGK colder plugs | MHD back end flash and jb4
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vernors vernors is offline
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Default 10-24-2017, 12:46 PM

Oooops, yes charge pipe should have been listed. Definitely will be getting one.

Is a BEF the ethanol kit? Have you ever added a flash on top of the JB4?
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Default 10-24-2017, 02:57 PM

That's what the BEF is - Back End Flash. If you're going to run e85, then you'll want to flash the PUMP or e85 BEF.

Read up: http://www.n54tech.com/forums/showthread.php?t=29236
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vernors vernors is offline
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Default 10-24-2017, 03:15 PM

Ahhhh, got it. I'll read up on it. Thx.

Also, I'm not really seeing anyone list that they have the ethanol analyzer/sensor kit. I'm assuming that this isn't necessary since the JB4 monitors octane levels and can adjust accordingly? Also, at this point I have no plans to run more than 35% Ethanol....because I am not going to upgrade fuel pumps, lines, etc.....

Last edited by vernors; 10-24-2017 at 04:13 PM..
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treehouse treehouse is offline
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Default 10-24-2017, 04:52 PM

I run the Stage 2 LPFP and ethanol sensor... I really like to confirm my E% rather than guess. The new firmware on JB4 has a built in algorithm however, so not as necessary now.

I run a 09 135i with E85 BEF @ E50. Daily drive map 2. Lots of fun
FBO without inlets.
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Default 10-25-2017, 09:38 AM

Interesting, thanks Tree that pretty much confirms what I thought. If I do decide to upgrade the pumps, which will only happen after I get a good handle on how the car performs with 35% Ethanol, I'll definitely pick up an analyzer as well.
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Default 10-25-2017, 09:47 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by vernors
Got a late model N54 vehicle and am planning to go the following route.

JB4
FMIC
BMS DCI
30% to 35% E85 Mix
91 Octane (CA)

Possible Addition:
Ethanol Analyzer/Sensor Kit
BOV (can I keep stock, or must replace?)
good plan. Use map 5 on the JB4 with e85 and won't be disappointed.
I had the same setup + dawnpipes and the car was very fast and reliable.

Don't bother with the ethanol analyzer, especially if you're going to run map 5 that auto-adjusts to different octaines/conditions.


DV/BOV - people say to replace the stock DV's, but I held off for a long time since I didn't want the wooshy sound and never had a problem with the charge pipe.

In my experience, I think the 535i charge pipe seems to be stronger, or at least fail less often, than the 1 and 3 series. I ran 21-23 psi on stock turbos, never an issue.

Quote:
Originally Posted by vernors
I've heard that the JB4 Map 5 is an auto-tune that will provide an 'on the fly' adjustment based on fuel type which the JB4 already senses through one of the OEM sensors....

There was some mention of Map 5 only being affective in gears 3 and 4, which I think is wrong....but want to clarify. I believe that Map 5 needs 'set up' time by monitoring WOT pulls in gears 3 and 4, but otherwise operates in all rev ranges and gears....true?
No, map 5 is active in all gears. You do need to let map 5 learn in gears 3, 4, and 5, above (I think) 4000 rpm.

Quote:
Originally Posted by vernors
Also Is an Ethanol Analyzer needed or recommended? Is there a benefit by adding the Analyzer/Sensor kit?
Don't bother.

Quote:
Originally Posted by vernors
Lastly, does the addition of a backend flash create a better overall set up? By better, I mean safer (due to JB4 safety features) and also more powerful/more appropriate because of the specific bolt ons I have...be it MHD or another one. I'm a little unclear on the JB4/Secondary Flash concept....

Thanks for the help, yeah lots of questions but you all know your stuff so I appreciate any advice.
Yes, usually. it will more finely-tune the engine and can allow more e85, customize for single-turbo or twin upgrades, etc. BEF is worth it, it's icing on the JB4 cake.

Quote:
Originally Posted by vernors
Is ER the only one that makes a drop in cooler? Also, how loud are your diverter/BOV? I want to keep things as quiet as possible, rather have a bad ass sleeper than call attention.
I've been running the VRSF 7" for a couple years and it's help fine on the zip ties per the DIY thread on here. They hold like 200 lbs (100 lbs per zip), so not worried. However, my mechanic did not approve :D

That said, the VRSF does not cool as well as others. I'm considering going to another FMIC and just making it fit like with the VRSF.


Quote:
Originally Posted by GreatWhite5er
I got the forge diverter valves, they don't make sounds
Same here - although you do need to clean and regrease them every few months. At least check the operation of the piston. The can start sticking open or closed b/c the seals get gummed up. After just 6 months or so mine were starting to stick open.

If you find that your PWM/WGDC is higher than normal, or you just can't make the same boost you used to - start with the DV/s.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Terry @ BMS
Solid and easy to run setup. You won't be disappointed.
Definitely not - this setup is proven and loads of fun.

And yes, I don't think there is any advantage Cobb can claim in performance/reliability/ease of use over JB4 ... and once you add in a BEF, it's no contest in my eyes.


2017 AMG C63 -JB4
2009 535i - 548whp - sold
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Default 10-25-2017, 09:58 AM

I just find there are so many issues always brought up with jb4 on these forums . ive never had a single issue with cobb , its tuning for dummies I guess hahaha. im just pro cobb my opinion, not slagging jb4 at all ive heard soo many good things ....

I just saw my neighbor out with his laptop once trying to figure out a problem and a code and had the ecu box open etc , just freaked me out hahahaha . cobb , showed me error code explained it on the v3 accessport , I further googled quickly then ordered part etc and fixed problem
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Default 10-25-2017, 10:00 AM

I definitely like the so many options that the jb4 offers for self tuning , but i don't know enough about that an id probably blow my engine hahaha no joke i probably would
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Default 10-25-2017, 10:19 AM

The only reason you see more JB4 conversation is because COBB has been dead on this platform for years.
I have been running JB4 for years, and have never had an issue that wasn't my own tuning related. JB4 gives way more power to the normal user than COBB. If you don't want to learn to tune at all, just look up Trebelia for an online tune.
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Default 10-25-2017, 01:20 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by treehouse
The only reason you see more JB4 conversation is because COBB has been dead on this platform for years.
I have been running JB4 for years, and have never had an issue that wasn't my own tuning related. JB4 gives way more power to the normal user than COBB. If you don't want to learn to tune at all, just look up Trebelia for an online tune.
awesome thanks bud, id like to look into something for sure just cringe at the possibililty of wrecking **** hahahaha, i do feel my 5er can put out so much more power... i will definetly look into both for sure thank you so much for the help. i love these forums they are very helpful so much knowledge.
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Default 10-25-2017, 01:31 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by treehouse
The only reason you see more JB4 conversation is because COBB has been dead on this platform for years.
I have been running JB4 for years, and have never had an issue that wasn't my own tuning related. JB4 gives way more power to the normal user than COBB. If you don't want to learn to tune at all, just look up Trebelia for an online tune.
I recently decided to tune with David (Trebila). Power delivery is smooth and the car felt great when it was running well. The only thing now, and it's not David's fault by any means, is that I've uncovered my misfiring issues (probably due to squeezing more power). Been chasing one for a few weeks now, even with some hardware updates. He's easy to work with and responds by the next day (since he's in France). So if I log tonight, I'll likely wake up to an answer/update from him.

To the OP: play around with map 5 and enjoy it, but OTS tunes < custom tunes.
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