N54Tech.com - International Turbo Racing Discussion
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dreadnaxt dreadnaxt is offline
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Default Stock turbos vs. Stage 1 - 09-24-2016, 04:34 AM

Hello,

I need to replace my dead stock turbos. I've 2 options: go with the new stock ones again or get stage 1 turbos from one of the known vendors.

Do I really need stage 1 if I'm NOT planning to install down ***** and any other mods? Basically I'll be running map 1 with backend flash.

Will I gain anything by having stage 1? Longer life of the turbos or better spooling compared to stock? Or with the simple tunes I will have stock turbos should be more than enough?

Thanks
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ms335i ms335i is offline
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Default 09-24-2016, 05:55 AM

Stock turbos will last longer. The stage 1are cheaper but upgraded turbos never last.
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N54QC N54QC is offline
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Default 09-24-2016, 03:11 PM

Partially depends on how long you plan to keep the car. If you're going to run it till the motor goes, then stay stock. If you are planning to have it for a few years, then go with stage 1. Longevity is cut down with upgraded turbos, but part of the reason these turbo go out quicker is they are pushing a lot more boost then originally intended which creates heat and people beat on them because they bought them with the desire for more power. Hints, these things go hand and hand. If you plan to not beat them to death and are running reasonable boost, (which you said your intent is map 1 which is very mild) IMO I would go with stage 1's.


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dreadnaxt dreadnaxt is offline
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Default 09-24-2016, 03:37 PM

I have this car for 4 years already and I guess I'll keep it for another year or two since I don't see any alternative now.
My problem is that I cannot really go FBO because I won't be able to pass the inspection here and I won't be able to sell it in that state.
My stock turbos died after 160k km (running Jb4 map 1 for the last 40k). What are the average miles of stage 1?
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MalibuMafiaV MalibuMafiaV is offline
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Default 09-24-2016, 05:37 PM

just rebuild your current ones if you don't have a lot to spend. It's cheap and efficient.

At this point someone once told me... single turbo or nothing. All the twin turbo upgrades don't last. Stock ones will last a long time if your just FBO and aren't running map 7 all the time.


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LQQKOUT LQQKOUT is offline
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Default 09-24-2016, 06:04 PM

According to VTT their Stage 1 is not any better than stock turbos when it comes to performance.
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Default 09-24-2016, 07:24 PM

Stock turbos are badass for what they are... I would stick with stock turbos...


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007335i 007335i is offline
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Default 09-24-2016, 08:27 PM

I'm currently in the same boat. Should I buy used, new oem, stage 1, single, or yolo and go GC's.
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Chris@VargasTurboTech Chris@VargasTurboTech is offline
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Default 09-24-2016, 08:48 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by LQQKOUT
According to VTT their Stage 1 is not any better than stock turbos when it comes to performance.
Both stage 1's and OEM's are limited on the turbine side, but the compressor wheel is much more efficient on the stage 1's, which means they'll reach the same boost with lower shaft speeds -one of the keys to longevity in a turbo design. They both tap out at about the same point horsepower wise with a little nod to the stage 1's.

Chris


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Sabre Sabre is offline
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Default 09-26-2016, 10:26 AM

+1 for stockers. Get them rebuilt. Why sepend the added money on stage 1's when you can extract near the same from the stockers and are proven to last thousands of miles?
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Torgus Torgus is offline
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Default 09-26-2016, 03:29 PM

Nothing has proven to last as long or be as durable as stock turbos. They get my vote.


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dreadnaxt dreadnaxt is offline
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Default 09-27-2016, 01:53 AM

Thanks everyone for sharing your opinion. I think I'll go with stock turbos then.

Rebuiling mine will take some time I think. I'll have to find someone who can do this in the area, send them and wait for them to be rebuilt. So it's faster and easier just to buy brand new ones and sell my cores on ebay for rebuild...
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snelson3003 snelson3003 is offline
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Default 09-27-2016, 01:27 PM

I will say this about the VTT stage 1's and the billet wheel option:

In Denver(high altitude) I could never manage to hold boost over 14PSI at redline with inlets and DB tuning. Stock turbos that where brand new too.

But now with the VTT Stage 1's i hold well past 19psi without an issue and my PWM still has room for alot more boost.

So to me, the stage 1's are amazing at how well my car builds boost and holds every last psi until 7Krpm.

Lots of guys in CO have about a 14psi MAX possible nearing redline. I blow past them now without any issue.


498WHP / 516TQ : 10/29/16

VTT Stage 1 + Billet Wheel | VTT Inlets | VTT PCV Valve | JB4 G5 ISO | BMS E85 Flash | Fuel It Stage 2 | ECS TwinTake| Stett Vacuum Canisters | Hartge Stepped FMIC | VRSF ** | 91Oct w/E50 | BMS Cowl Filters | Located in Denver, Colorado - High Altitude!

Maintenance: EKPM3-DE @ 74K | Water pump & T-stat @ 70K | Valve Cover @ 50K | VTT Turbo @ 70K | HPFP @ 65K | Walnut Blasting @ 65K | 6 Injectors @ 55K | Vacuum lines @ 55K | Spark Plugs @ 75K | Boost Solenoid @ 65K
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I6+TT=FTW I6+TT=FTW is offline
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Default 09-27-2016, 02:16 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by snelson3003
I will say this about the VTT stage 1's and the billet wheel option:

In Denver(high altitude) I could never manage to hold boost over 14PSI at redline with inlets and DB tuning. Stock turbos that where brand new too.

But now with the VTT Stage 1's i hold well past 19psi without an issue and my PWM still has room for alot more boost.

So to me, the stage 1's are amazing at how well my car builds boost and holds every last psi until 7Krpm.

Lots of guys in CO have about a 14psi MAX possible nearing redline. I blow past them now without any issue.
Up in foco myself. How long have you been running stage 1's? And basically same curve you described, 19 tapering to about 14. Holding to redline would really make a huge difference for me.

And would love to run your car as a comparison of what I could expect.

Have you run at bandimere lately?


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Chris@VargasTurboTech Chris@VargasTurboTech is offline
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Default 09-27-2016, 09:37 PM

Ken (wedge) posted a nice Stage 1 tuner review over on E90post. Great power curve. Peak numbers don't change a lot but area under the curve on his dyno was beautiful. Car made 450 something if I recall correctly.

Edit: http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1267728


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snelson3003 snelson3003 is offline
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Default 09-28-2016, 09:09 AM

Nope I havent been to Bandimere yet, i am trying to but im going to miss this season.

I run lots of guys around town so they can see the difference, and usually off the line its even but after about 5krpm i pull away forever.

I used to commute to FoCo but dont anymore, if you are in town sometime shoot me a PM and we can meet up.


498WHP / 516TQ : 10/29/16

VTT Stage 1 + Billet Wheel | VTT Inlets | VTT PCV Valve | JB4 G5 ISO | BMS E85 Flash | Fuel It Stage 2 | ECS TwinTake| Stett Vacuum Canisters | Hartge Stepped FMIC | VRSF ** | 91Oct w/E50 | BMS Cowl Filters | Located in Denver, Colorado - High Altitude!

Maintenance: EKPM3-DE @ 74K | Water pump & T-stat @ 70K | Valve Cover @ 50K | VTT Turbo @ 70K | HPFP @ 65K | Walnut Blasting @ 65K | 6 Injectors @ 55K | Vacuum lines @ 55K | Spark Plugs @ 75K | Boost Solenoid @ 65K
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snelson3003 snelson3003 is offline
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Default 09-28-2016, 09:12 AM

Here is a log for you to take a peak at.

PWM is in the 60-70's which means i can probably run more boost but fueling is my new issue. Running E60ish on verified E87 fuel is max for my Stage 2 LPFP and new HPFP.

This was done on I-70 West lol!
Attached Files
File Type: csv 2016-09-09 11_29_20 E65 BEF Map 7 timing and Trims.csv (9.2 KB, 106 views)


498WHP / 516TQ : 10/29/16

VTT Stage 1 + Billet Wheel | VTT Inlets | VTT PCV Valve | JB4 G5 ISO | BMS E85 Flash | Fuel It Stage 2 | ECS TwinTake| Stett Vacuum Canisters | Hartge Stepped FMIC | VRSF ** | 91Oct w/E50 | BMS Cowl Filters | Located in Denver, Colorado - High Altitude!

Maintenance: EKPM3-DE @ 74K | Water pump & T-stat @ 70K | Valve Cover @ 50K | VTT Turbo @ 70K | HPFP @ 65K | Walnut Blasting @ 65K | 6 Injectors @ 55K | Vacuum lines @ 55K | Spark Plugs @ 75K | Boost Solenoid @ 65K
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I6+TT=FTW I6+TT=FTW is offline
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Default 09-29-2016, 08:30 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by snelson3003
Nope I havent been to Bandimere yet, i am trying to but im going to miss this season.

I run lots of guys around town so they can see the difference, and usually off the line its even but after about 5krpm i pull away forever.

I used to commute to FoCo but dont anymore, if you are in town sometime shoot me a PM and we can meet up.
will do man! Thanks for the log.


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MasterWang MasterWang is offline
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Default 10-26-2016, 03:16 PM

Reading this post made me switch my mind from Stage 1 to stock turbos.

The reason why I would go with stocks again would be for reliability.. so where is the best place to purchase a set? Does VTT's OE plus offer the same reliability and lifespan as BMW's stock turbos? Or do I have to purchase from BMW to have the reliability of our original turbos?
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snelson3003 snelson3003 is offline
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Default 10-27-2016, 08:55 AM

I would tell you to go with a stage 1 from VTT.

The added flow really makes these turbos great for holding 20psi near redline.

Cost is very much close to OEM turbos. They use the OEM thrust/collar too which to me makes these reliable. I have had mine boosting 20psi daily for over 10k miles without a single issue.


498WHP / 516TQ : 10/29/16

VTT Stage 1 + Billet Wheel | VTT Inlets | VTT PCV Valve | JB4 G5 ISO | BMS E85 Flash | Fuel It Stage 2 | ECS TwinTake| Stett Vacuum Canisters | Hartge Stepped FMIC | VRSF ** | 91Oct w/E50 | BMS Cowl Filters | Located in Denver, Colorado - High Altitude!

Maintenance: EKPM3-DE @ 74K | Water pump & T-stat @ 70K | Valve Cover @ 50K | VTT Turbo @ 70K | HPFP @ 65K | Walnut Blasting @ 65K | 6 Injectors @ 55K | Vacuum lines @ 55K | Spark Plugs @ 75K | Boost Solenoid @ 65K
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08_335i 08_335i is offline
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Default 10-27-2016, 01:07 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by MasterWang
Reading this post made me switch my mind from Stage 1 to stock turbos.

The reason why I would go with stocks again would be for reliability.. so where is the best place to purchase a set? Does VTT's OE plus offer the same reliability and lifespan as BMW's stock turbos? Or do I have to purchase from BMW to have the reliability of our original turbos?
Reliability? Have you googled stock n54 turbos before? lol
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snelson3003 snelson3003 is offline
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Default 10-27-2016, 01:46 PM

Usually the OEM turbos are most reliable. It's a pretty well known fact. But if you are pushing the limits of the stock turbos it's only a matter of time before they blow.


498WHP / 516TQ : 10/29/16

VTT Stage 1 + Billet Wheel | VTT Inlets | VTT PCV Valve | JB4 G5 ISO | BMS E85 Flash | Fuel It Stage 2 | ECS TwinTake| Stett Vacuum Canisters | Hartge Stepped FMIC | VRSF ** | 91Oct w/E50 | BMS Cowl Filters | Located in Denver, Colorado - High Altitude!

Maintenance: EKPM3-DE @ 74K | Water pump & T-stat @ 70K | Valve Cover @ 50K | VTT Turbo @ 70K | HPFP @ 65K | Walnut Blasting @ 65K | 6 Injectors @ 55K | Vacuum lines @ 55K | Spark Plugs @ 75K | Boost Solenoid @ 65K
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Trunks335i7 Trunks335i7 is offline
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Default 10-27-2016, 03:56 PM

You can get stock turbos fron ECStuning for 700.00 each. Stock gets my vote 4 sure. I believe Mitsubishi makes our turbos, so maybe you can get a better price from them. Best of luck!!
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