N54Tech.com - International Turbo Racing Discussion
(#51)
Old
Sabre Sabre is offline
Junior Member
 
Posts: 143
Join Date: Nov 2013
Car: 135i
Default 10-14-2016, 11:21 AM

Congrats on the purchase Terry, bad ass ride, and welcome back Russell!!
Reply With Quote
(#52)
Old
Russell @ BMS's Avatar
Russell @ BMS Russell @ BMS is offline
Tuner
 
Posts: 5,673
Join Date: Nov 2008
Car: 2009 335i AT
Cool 10-18-2016, 09:20 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by harry$
What car is Ando left with then? has he also gone over to the "Dark Side"?
No...... but he does have one very cool dog!


Burger Motorsports
Home of the Worlds fastest N20s, N54s, N55s, N63s, and S63s!

It is the sole responsibility of the purchaser and installer of any BMS part to employ the correct installation techniques required to ensure the proper operation of BMS parts, and BMS disclaims any and all liability for any part failure due to improper installation or use. It is the sole responsibility of the customer to verify that the use of their vehicle and items purchased comply with federal, state and local regulations. BMS claims no legal federal, state or local certification concerning pollution controlled motor vehicles or mandated emissions requirements. BMS products labeled for use only in competition racing vehicles may only be used on competition racing vehicles operated exclusively on a closed course in conjunction with a sanctioned racing event, in accordance with all federal and state laws, and may never be operated on public roads/highways. Please click here for more information on legal requirements related to use of BMS parts.
Reply With Quote
(#53)
Old
335is 335is is offline
New Member
 
Posts: 13
Join Date: Nov 2010
Car: 2011 335is
Default 10-18-2016, 11:40 AM

Is it just me....or does anyone else think this thread does not belong here?
Reply With Quote
(#54)
Old
Down4it's Avatar
Down4it Down4it is offline
Junior Member
 
Posts: 128
Join Date: Jan 2008
Default 10-18-2016, 01:19 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by 335is
Is it just me....or does anyone else think this thread does not belong here?
I'm pretty sure Terry can post whatever he wants in his forum.
Reply With Quote
(#55)
Old
Terry @ BMS's Avatar
Terry @ BMS Terry @ BMS is offline
Tuner
 
Posts: 32,593
Join Date: Jan 2008
Default 10-18-2016, 02:16 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by 335is
Is it just me....or does anyone else think this thread does not belong here?
I think its useful and interesting to have some Intel on the //M competition....Besides you know what you are getting in to when you click on a thread called "2016 C7 Z06"...

To that end I had a chance to get the car on the dyno for a few runs. 100% stock on ~92 octane. First pull around 550whp then dropped from there. By the 6th or 7th pull AFR had gone rich and it was down to around 515whp. Apparently the factory tuning engages an emissions protection mode as modeled EGT rises which results in a richer AFR and less power. The supercharger itself is also known to heatsoak which pulls down advance and power. I haven't had time to get HP Tuners going on it so no logging yet other than what the dyno captured. But I'm starting to think 80% of what you get with tuning is just turning off the various nannies that rob power from ideal conditions. For fun after these runs I did a few experiments with no filter, a high flow K&N, etc, evaluating the intake situation but don't have conclusive enough data there to share yet.
Attached Images
 


Burger Motorsports
Home of the JB4 the worlds most popular turbocharged tuning system!

It is the sole responsibility of the purchaser and installer of any BMS part to employ the correct installation techniques required to ensure the proper operation of BMS parts, and BMS disclaims any and all liability for any part failure due to improper installation or use. It is the sole responsibility of the customer to verify that the use of their vehicle and items purchased comply with federal, state and local regulations. BMS claims no legal federal, state or local certification concerning pollution controlled motor vehicles or mandated emissions requirements. BMS products labeled for use only in competition racing vehicles may only be used on competition racing vehicles operated exclusively on a closed course in conjunction with a sanctioned racing event, in accordance with all federal and state laws, and may never be operated on public roads/highways. Please click here for more information on legal requirements related to use of BMS parts.
Reply With Quote
(#56)
Old
Mike_L's Avatar
Mike_L Mike_L is offline
Anti-Social
 
Posts: 1,872
Join Date: Jun 2014
Car: 2021 M550i xDrive
Default 10-18-2016, 03:54 PM

553 when its rated at 650? Seems to be some power missing there. Thats like a 15% drivetrain loss. GM hasn't lost that much though their rear drive automatics since the old 4L60e (16%). We were seeing in the 10% area with the 6L90, and I doubt they'd accept more than that. Thinking the power rating is probably on 93 and KR is pulling it down even more.

Actually, its not that bad, only like 10-15hp low. Just found DiabloSports dyno sheet on the Z06.

The the transmission really is that bad...... or the torque tube is.


Mike Levy
2021 Tanzanite Blue II M550i xDrive
2018 Silver Equinox LT 2.0T

Last edited by Mike_L; 10-18-2016 at 04:05 PM..
Reply With Quote
(#57)
Old
Terry @ BMS's Avatar
Terry @ BMS Terry @ BMS is offline
Tuner
 
Posts: 32,593
Join Date: Jan 2008
Default 10-18-2016, 04:22 PM

Power is about what I expected. But surprised at the drop off after a couple runs. They claim an intake adds 40whp+ so I plan to install one and dyno just to see if its true. Based on some initial testing I did the factory intake does not seem like a restriction. But with the intake systems they also end up rescaling the MAF readings which alters the AFR and the leaner AFR is probably boosting power substantially.


Burger Motorsports
Home of the JB4 the worlds most popular turbocharged tuning system!

It is the sole responsibility of the purchaser and installer of any BMS part to employ the correct installation techniques required to ensure the proper operation of BMS parts, and BMS disclaims any and all liability for any part failure due to improper installation or use. It is the sole responsibility of the customer to verify that the use of their vehicle and items purchased comply with federal, state and local regulations. BMS claims no legal federal, state or local certification concerning pollution controlled motor vehicles or mandated emissions requirements. BMS products labeled for use only in competition racing vehicles may only be used on competition racing vehicles operated exclusively on a closed course in conjunction with a sanctioned racing event, in accordance with all federal and state laws, and may never be operated on public roads/highways. Please click here for more information on legal requirements related to use of BMS parts.
Reply With Quote
(#58)
Old
Down4it's Avatar
Down4it Down4it is offline
Junior Member
 
Posts: 128
Join Date: Jan 2008
Default 10-19-2016, 03:51 PM

GM's going to get sued like Ford did with the 2001 Cobra. They should have called it a 600hp car if it's making 550whp, not to mention that on a hot summer day the thing's probably only making around 510-515. That's not cool!
Reply With Quote
(#59)
Old
S.W.G. S.W.G. is offline
Junior Member
 
Posts: 37
Join Date: Jul 2014
Car: 335i
Default 10-19-2016, 05:01 PM

Welcome to the wonderful world of sub-par C7 Z cooling. Do a few cooling mods and the drop off wont be *as* bad, but woe. Check out GM's hilarious excuse: http://www.torquenews.com/106/corvet...ed-motor-trend

Would still take one in a heartbeat.
Reply With Quote
(#60)
Old
Mike_L's Avatar
Mike_L Mike_L is offline
Anti-Social
 
Posts: 1,872
Join Date: Jun 2014
Car: 2021 M550i xDrive
Default 10-19-2016, 06:43 PM

I still think the inferior gas has to shoulder a lot of the blame. GM/SAE power testing is done on 93 octane, and California gets 91 or 92 at best. Thats 2.5-3 of knock retard, cutting boost and spark. I believe that a log would have shown that KR and reduced boost.


Mike Levy
2021 Tanzanite Blue II M550i xDrive
2018 Silver Equinox LT 2.0T
Reply With Quote
(#61)
Old
S.W.G. S.W.G. is offline
Junior Member
 
Posts: 37
Join Date: Jul 2014
Car: 335i
Default 10-22-2016, 10:00 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike_L
I still think the inferior gas has to shoulder a lot of the blame. GM/SAE power testing is done on 93 octane, and California gets 91 or 92 at best. Thats 2.5-3 of knock retard, cutting boost and spark. I believe that a log would have shown that KR and reduced boost.
It's not really an octane issue, its a heat soak issue.
Reply With Quote
(#62)
Old
Mike_L's Avatar
Mike_L Mike_L is offline
Anti-Social
 
Posts: 1,872
Join Date: Jun 2014
Car: 2021 M550i xDrive
Default 10-22-2016, 07:09 PM

The reason I question if its a heat issue is because none of Lingenfelters packages do anything to the cooling circuit. They also made 571/598 stock on 93.


Mike Levy
2021 Tanzanite Blue II M550i xDrive
2018 Silver Equinox LT 2.0T
Reply With Quote
(#63)
Old
A418t81's Avatar
A418t81 A418t81 is offline
One tire fire
 
Posts: 87
Join Date: Jan 2008
Car: E92 335, 6MT
Default 10-23-2016, 08:31 AM

Terry what does a couple of gallons of E85 added to the tank do for consistency? I know they heat soak easily, but I wonder if a little boost in available octane helps things out any considerable amount.


'18 Magnetic Gray Raptor
'19 GT3 RS Weissach
'09 997.1 6MT: FBO, 65mm VTGs. 730 whp
'18 Nardo Gray RS3 APR stage 2, 10.72 @ 130
Reply With Quote
(#64)
Old
Terry @ BMS's Avatar
Terry @ BMS Terry @ BMS is offline
Tuner
 
Posts: 32,593
Join Date: Jan 2008
Default 10-23-2016, 09:55 AM

I haven't had time to test it out yet. But soon!


Burger Motorsports
Home of the JB4 the worlds most popular turbocharged tuning system!

It is the sole responsibility of the purchaser and installer of any BMS part to employ the correct installation techniques required to ensure the proper operation of BMS parts, and BMS disclaims any and all liability for any part failure due to improper installation or use. It is the sole responsibility of the customer to verify that the use of their vehicle and items purchased comply with federal, state and local regulations. BMS claims no legal federal, state or local certification concerning pollution controlled motor vehicles or mandated emissions requirements. BMS products labeled for use only in competition racing vehicles may only be used on competition racing vehicles operated exclusively on a closed course in conjunction with a sanctioned racing event, in accordance with all federal and state laws, and may never be operated on public roads/highways. Please click here for more information on legal requirements related to use of BMS parts.
Reply With Quote
(#65)
Old
Terry @ BMS's Avatar
Terry @ BMS Terry @ BMS is offline
Tuner
 
Posts: 32,593
Join Date: Jan 2008
Default 11-01-2016, 12:16 PM

Had a few moments today to get the Z06 on the dyno. It's much cooler today, 60s vs. 90s last go around. Same 93 octane mix.

I was going to do an intake comparison between stock and the AFE intake but I forgot the stock intake so had to settle for a few AFE intake runs.

Net/net car performed better this go around, around 570whp peak. AFE leaned it across the board as expected with the intake rescaling the MAF sensor reading. I monitored timing on all the runs and it was pretty consistent at 18 degrees in the midrange up to 24 degrees at the top of 5th.

For kicks I added a couple gallons of E85 on the dyno to get the mix up to around E20 and the car seemed to like it. After an adaption run or two it leaned out a bit more, made a few more HP up top, didn't trigger any fuel trim faults, etc. Adding 2-3 gallons of E85 per tank is a lot cheaper than adding in 2-3 gallons of 100 so I'll start some longer term testing on that.

What I really wanted to do what determine whether or not the intake was adding any power and while I have some data on that front not enough to make my bold conclusion yet. But I'm getting there.
Attached Images
   


Burger Motorsports
Home of the JB4 the worlds most popular turbocharged tuning system!

It is the sole responsibility of the purchaser and installer of any BMS part to employ the correct installation techniques required to ensure the proper operation of BMS parts, and BMS disclaims any and all liability for any part failure due to improper installation or use. It is the sole responsibility of the customer to verify that the use of their vehicle and items purchased comply with federal, state and local regulations. BMS claims no legal federal, state or local certification concerning pollution controlled motor vehicles or mandated emissions requirements. BMS products labeled for use only in competition racing vehicles may only be used on competition racing vehicles operated exclusively on a closed course in conjunction with a sanctioned racing event, in accordance with all federal and state laws, and may never be operated on public roads/highways. Please click here for more information on legal requirements related to use of BMS parts.
Reply With Quote
(#66)
Old
FC4 FC4 is offline
Junior Member
 
Posts: 86
Join Date: Jul 2014
Car: 435i
Default 11-01-2016, 06:26 PM

Nice, Terry. Can never have enough data.

What made you pick aFe over Halltech?
Reply With Quote
(#67)
Old
Terry @ BMS's Avatar
Terry @ BMS Terry @ BMS is offline
Tuner
 
Posts: 32,593
Join Date: Jan 2008
Default 11-01-2016, 08:05 PM

Cheaper and easier to order online. But I'll grab a Haltech too later and do a Z06-dyno-palouza.


Burger Motorsports
Home of the JB4 the worlds most popular turbocharged tuning system!

It is the sole responsibility of the purchaser and installer of any BMS part to employ the correct installation techniques required to ensure the proper operation of BMS parts, and BMS disclaims any and all liability for any part failure due to improper installation or use. It is the sole responsibility of the customer to verify that the use of their vehicle and items purchased comply with federal, state and local regulations. BMS claims no legal federal, state or local certification concerning pollution controlled motor vehicles or mandated emissions requirements. BMS products labeled for use only in competition racing vehicles may only be used on competition racing vehicles operated exclusively on a closed course in conjunction with a sanctioned racing event, in accordance with all federal and state laws, and may never be operated on public roads/highways. Please click here for more information on legal requirements related to use of BMS parts.
Reply With Quote
(#68)
Old
allmotor_2000 allmotor_2000 is offline
Junior Member
 
Posts: 309
Join Date: Jul 2014
Car: 2014 F10 M5 CP Frozen Grey
Default 11-02-2016, 06:43 PM

If you are bored (and playing with Chevy's!!) have a project for you :-)
Reply With Quote
(#69)
Old
A418t81's Avatar
A418t81 A418t81 is offline
One tire fire
 
Posts: 87
Join Date: Jan 2008
Car: E92 335, 6MT
Default 11-02-2016, 10:35 PM

Not surprised about the intake findings. They have been monkeying with the maf housing cross section for years. My C6Z didn't like my killer bee intake much and would occasionally throw lean idle codes. Cool data nonetheless.


'18 Magnetic Gray Raptor
'19 GT3 RS Weissach
'09 997.1 6MT: FBO, 65mm VTGs. 730 whp
'18 Nardo Gray RS3 APR stage 2, 10.72 @ 130
Reply With Quote
(#70)
Old
Terry @ BMS's Avatar
Terry @ BMS Terry @ BMS is offline
Tuner
 
Posts: 32,593
Join Date: Jan 2008
Default 11-22-2016, 08:18 PM

Hey guys,

In between projects I was able to sneak my personal Z06 on the dyno for a little tuning.

Car was on E30 with the rest 91 octane, using HP Tuners for tuning, and tuned it for both the stock intake and AFE intake. Overall was pretty easy to tune and I made several adjustments to the mapped timing decay (IAT, coolant temp) tables to keep it consistent from run to run. As well as the usual fan changes to hopefully improve actual cooling crawling through the staging lanes.

As expected with E30 it picked up more power with more timing. I settled on 2 degrees more than stock up top. It could probably take another 2 degrees more but since I am going to put a 2.3" upper pulley on it soon I'll just evaluate that more next time.

I wasted a lot of time fighting midrange timing retard that I was not able to solve. I verified its below MBT (torque does drop when lowing timing there) but it pulls 4-6 degrees in the midrange via knock retard for no obvious reason. I ended up leaving that part of the timing table stock for now. I tried various minor changes to the knock tables with minimal impact. Short of getting really aggressive on KR dampening not sure how to tackle that problem.

Best run today vs. best run when the car was stock (on ~93 octane). Stock it would drop 10-15whp run after run from the IAT decay and I'm thrilled that is no longer an issue now.



Best run today vs. best run when the car was running stock tuning with the AFE intake and E20. I spent a lot of time today testing out different air/fuel ratios and advance curves and while it definitely makes more torque up in to the 13s on E85 mixtures timing was a little less stable. So settled on around 12.9:1 in the midrange, 12.5:1 up top.



When I was done tuning I decided to throw the stock intake on and retune the same AFR and timing curve for an apples to apples comparison. I found the AFE intake to be worth around ~15whp over the stock intake/filter when everything is matched up. It lets the supercharger produce maybe 1/2psi more boost at higher RPM. I did a couple runs with a K&N filter in place of the stock and it was basically the same as the stock filter. I'm working on a new style of replacement filter for the hell of it that I'll test next time.



Burger Motorsports
Home of the JB4 the worlds most popular turbocharged tuning system!

It is the sole responsibility of the purchaser and installer of any BMS part to employ the correct installation techniques required to ensure the proper operation of BMS parts, and BMS disclaims any and all liability for any part failure due to improper installation or use. It is the sole responsibility of the customer to verify that the use of their vehicle and items purchased comply with federal, state and local regulations. BMS claims no legal federal, state or local certification concerning pollution controlled motor vehicles or mandated emissions requirements. BMS products labeled for use only in competition racing vehicles may only be used on competition racing vehicles operated exclusively on a closed course in conjunction with a sanctioned racing event, in accordance with all federal and state laws, and may never be operated on public roads/highways. Please click here for more information on legal requirements related to use of BMS parts.
Reply With Quote
(#71)
Old
Steve @ BMS/Fuel-It!'s Avatar
Steve @ BMS/Fuel-It! Steve @ BMS/Fuel-It! is offline
Tuner
 
Posts: 18,441
Join Date: Oct 2012
Car: 135i
Default 11-22-2016, 09:18 PM

Sweet, rematch at the next NFZ!



Click on our banner to visit our website!
Video of our Stage 2 LPFP upgrade installation.

BMS products labeled for use only in competition racing vehicles may only be used on competition racing vehicles operated exclusively on a closed course in conjunction with a sanctioned racing event, in accordance with all federal and state laws, and may never be operated on public roads/highways.
Reply With Quote
(#72)
Old
Terry @ BMS's Avatar
Terry @ BMS Terry @ BMS is offline
Tuner
 
Posts: 32,593
Join Date: Jan 2008
Default 11-22-2016, 09:39 PM

Haha it's such a long drive. Maybe I'll send Ando or Payam down with the car.


Burger Motorsports
Home of the JB4 the worlds most popular turbocharged tuning system!

It is the sole responsibility of the purchaser and installer of any BMS part to employ the correct installation techniques required to ensure the proper operation of BMS parts, and BMS disclaims any and all liability for any part failure due to improper installation or use. It is the sole responsibility of the customer to verify that the use of their vehicle and items purchased comply with federal, state and local regulations. BMS claims no legal federal, state or local certification concerning pollution controlled motor vehicles or mandated emissions requirements. BMS products labeled for use only in competition racing vehicles may only be used on competition racing vehicles operated exclusively on a closed course in conjunction with a sanctioned racing event, in accordance with all federal and state laws, and may never be operated on public roads/highways. Please click here for more information on legal requirements related to use of BMS parts.
Reply With Quote
(#73)
Old
Payam @ BMS's Avatar
Payam @ BMS Payam @ BMS is offline
Super Moderator
 
Posts: 6,162
Join Date: Oct 2013
Car: e90 335i
Default 11-22-2016, 11:13 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Terry @ BMS
Haha it's such a long drive. Maybe I'll send Ando or Payam down with the car.
I'm down to go next season with everyone. I'm pretty sure both of our cars will be ready by then :D


Burger Motorsports
Home of the Worlds fastest N20s, N54s, N55s, S55s, N63s, and S63s!

It is the sole responsibility of the purchaser and installer of any BMS part to employ the correct installation techniques required to ensure the proper operation of BMS parts, and BMS disclaims any and all liability for any part failure due to improper installation or use. It is the sole responsibility of the customer to verify that the use of their vehicle and items purchased comply with federal, state and local regulations. BMS claims no legal federal, state or local certification concerning pollution controlled motor vehicles or mandated emissions requirements. BMS products labeled for use only in competition racing vehicles may only be used on competition racing vehicles operated exclusively on a closed course in conjunction with a sanctioned racing event, in accordance with all federal and state laws, and may never be operated on public roads/highways. Please click here for more information on legal requirements related to use of BMS parts.
Reply With Quote
(#74)
Old
Cory S's Avatar
Cory S Cory S is offline
Junior Member
 
Posts: 103
Join Date: Jun 2016
Car: 2011 335i-X
Default 11-23-2016, 12:35 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike_L
GM doesn't have widebands on anything I don't think. I mean Ford only has them on the EcoBoosts. Domestic manufacturers prefer to keep things cheap and simple.
Ford runs closed loop wideband on almost all their engines now. Coyote's got it in 2011.... All Lambda targeted.

Terry, I thought the DI LT4 does use closed loop WOT Lambda targeting???
Reply With Quote
(#75)
Old
Ando @ BMS's Avatar
Ando @ BMS Ando @ BMS is offline
BMS Customer Service
 
Posts: 738
Join Date: Jan 2013
Car: bmw 335i
Default 11-23-2016, 12:40 AM

I drive the Z06 better then Payam. Results and videos proof


Burger Motorsports
Home of the Worlds fastest N20s, N54s, N55s, N63s, and S63s!

It is the sole responsibility of the purchaser and installer of any BMS part to employ the correct installation techniques required to ensure the proper operation of BMS parts, and BMS disclaims any and all liability for any part failure due to improper installation or use. It is the sole responsibility of the customer to verify that the use of their vehicle and items purchased comply with federal, state and local regulations. BMS claims no legal federal, state or local certification concerning pollution controlled motor vehicles or mandated emissions requirements. BMS products labeled for use only in competition racing vehicles may only be used on competition racing vehicles operated exclusively on a closed course in conjunction with a sanctioned racing event, in accordance with all federal and state laws, and may never be operated on public roads/highways. Please click here for more information on legal requirements related to use of BMS parts.
Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump




vBulletin Skin developed by: vBStyles.com
Copyright 2007 - 2020, N54tech.com