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ferocious ferocious is offline
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Arrow Built engine, Athena Head gasket leak - 11-02-2020, 02:41 AM



Hi guys,

After building my engine with rods and pistons and bearings,.. the whole works done, i had a Cyl 6 misfire and water temps would rise dramatically after a WOT run..

my shop decided its the head surface, or block surface or gasket.

we opened her up again.. minor surfaced the head and milled the block a bit,
and i decided to use the Athena gasket:

https://fcp-engineering.com/en/n54b3...m-330074r.html



with ARP bolts..


now after break in again same problem, after a while of driving around car will shiver and give a CYL6 misfire, .. when i unscrewed the spark plug on cylinder 6 it had water on it..

i let the car rest over night.. next day tried to start it engine was locked(hydra locked due to coolant in CYL6)

opened CYL6 plug and started the car, fired right up spraying all the coolant out the plug port.



I'm not sure if the Athena Head gasket with o rings is the cause or what..

i have purchased the same Gasket, and awaiting my appointment at my shop to open up the head and re inspect..


any suggestions or input on this would be highly appreciated..


a lot of time and money has been lost already, i just want to get it right.. and not abandon the N54 platform, I'm happy with my 335.


Thanks




2008 335i N54 FFtech Top Mount single turbo Precision 6266
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BMS METH KIT IN CONJUNCTION WITH MMP PI WITH 1055CC INJECTORS, PURE M1 METH,TMAP 3.5,
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nyt nyt is online now
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Default 11-02-2020, 11:39 AM

Sounds like you have an issue with that cylinder, have you tried replacing the injectors?


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dRDiesel dRDiesel is offline
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Default 11-02-2020, 08:15 PM

Sounds like something isn't sealing. Possibly a head gasket. Were you not able to use a OEM gasket because of the deck height?


2013 335is: V8Bait tuned, M4 DCT flywheel, E50 + AEM meth kit with dual BM5 nozzles, MMP relocated inlets, VRSF outlets, CTS 7" IC, DCI, BMP Stage 2 fuel pump, PR coils, 3" DP, BMS charge pipe
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Default 11-02-2020, 10:59 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by nyt
Sounds like you have an issue with that cylinder, have you tried replacing the injectors?

yep, brand new CYL6 injector index12 with coding





Quote:
Originally Posted by dRDiesel
Sounds like something isn't sealing. Possibly a head gasket. Were you not able to use a OEM gasket because of the deck height?


since the hight on the head and block have been slightly modified, the Athena gasket Hight in 1.5mm over size



2008 335i N54 FFtech Top Mount single turbo Precision 6266
JB4 G5 , VRSF 7" FMIC , VRSF CP + HKS BOV, Tial Wastegates
BMS METH KIT IN CONJUNCTION WITH MMP PI WITH 1055CC INJECTORS, PURE M1 METH,TMAP 3.5,
FUEL-IT STAGE2 BUCKETLESS LPFP, RB PCV. JB$ MHD BACKEND FLASH, xHP Stage2 v1.5
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Default 11-02-2020, 11:03 PM

With a head and block that have been freshly machined, there's no reason it shouldn't be sealing. The HG he's referring to is a cooper ring or cut ring gasket. Judging by the misfire, he has some kind of fueling issue that's causing trouble there.

inspecting it after the damage was done would have helped. Are there pics? Were knock tables desensitized?

Also, using the same gasket in my engine.



2010 335ix - speedtech 6466g2, cams, ported head, built bottom end, 7.5in hd ic, jb4, pi, fuel-it stg3, upgraded 6hp21+cooler, pr coils

Last edited by nyt; 11-02-2020 at 11:19 PM..
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Default 11-02-2020, 11:19 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by ferocious
yep, brand new CYL6 injector index12 with coding









since the hight on the head and block have been slightly modified, the Athena gasket Hight in 1.5mm over size
And what about your PI injector? Did you have any issues before hitting boost?


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Default 11-02-2020, 11:31 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by nyt
With a head and block that have been freshly machined, there's no reason it shouldn't be sealing. The HG he's referring to is a cooper ring or cut ring gasket. Judging by the misfire, he has some kind of fueling issue that's causing trouble there.

inspecting it after the damage was done would have helped. Are there pics? Were knock tables desensitized?

Also, using the same gasket in my engine.

Thanks for your reply,

the first time it happened, after tearing it down the head and block surface were not straight and the gasket(oem) was shot and burned thru at CYL6 and water leaked under the car and in to cyl6.

we couldn't tell if the issue was due to un-even surfaces prior to install because they have bent afterwards,

this time, after resurfacing everything it happened again,
i have installed a new injector with coding on cyl6 with new plugs a coil, no dice tho..

so i should desensitize the knock sensor thru MHD?

what torque specs are you tightening your ARP head bolts too



2008 335i N54 FFtech Top Mount single turbo Precision 6266
JB4 G5 , VRSF 7" FMIC , VRSF CP + HKS BOV, Tial Wastegates
BMS METH KIT IN CONJUNCTION WITH MMP PI WITH 1055CC INJECTORS, PURE M1 METH,TMAP 3.5,
FUEL-IT STAGE2 BUCKETLESS LPFP, RB PCV. JB$ MHD BACKEND FLASH, xHP Stage2 v1.5
more to come...
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Default 11-02-2020, 11:34 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by nyt
And what about your PI injector? Did you have any issues before hitting boost?
PI is well and working, when we take the head off this time i will make sure injector 6 on the PI isn't leaking

PI is fed of the meth pump when on WOT, so it isn't continuously pressurized to leak on idle or normal driving



2008 335i N54 FFtech Top Mount single turbo Precision 6266
JB4 G5 , VRSF 7" FMIC , VRSF CP + HKS BOV, Tial Wastegates
BMS METH KIT IN CONJUNCTION WITH MMP PI WITH 1055CC INJECTORS, PURE M1 METH,TMAP 3.5,
FUEL-IT STAGE2 BUCKETLESS LPFP, RB PCV. JB$ MHD BACKEND FLASH, xHP Stage2 v1.5
more to come...
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Default 11-03-2020, 07:10 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by ferocious
PI is well and working, when we take the head off this time i will make sure injector 6 on the PI isn't leaking

PI is fed of the meth pump when on WOT, so it isn't continuously pressurized to leak on idle or normal driving
Still possible your injector isn't metering correctly, could cause you to go lean and burn the cyl.


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Default 11-03-2020, 11:35 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by nyt
Still possible your injector isn't metering correctly, could cause you to go lean and burn the cyl.

once we open up the head next week, i will prime the PI and watch the injectors spray and check #6

so i should desensitize the knock sensor thru MHD?

what torque specs are you tightening your ARP head bolts to?


your help is much apreciated



2008 335i N54 FFtech Top Mount single turbo Precision 6266
JB4 G5 , VRSF 7" FMIC , VRSF CP + HKS BOV, Tial Wastegates
BMS METH KIT IN CONJUNCTION WITH MMP PI WITH 1055CC INJECTORS, PURE M1 METH,TMAP 3.5,
FUEL-IT STAGE2 BUCKETLESS LPFP, RB PCV. JB$ MHD BACKEND FLASH, xHP Stage2 v1.5
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Default 11-04-2020, 01:53 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by ferocious
once we open up the head next week, i will prime the PI and watch the injectors spray and check #6

so i should desensitize the knock sensor thru MHD?

what torque specs are you tightening your ARP head bolts to?


your help is much apreciated
No, don't desensitize. Was asking if you had it that way in case you were having knock events which weren't being reacted to.

80ftlbs, torque again after heat cycling a couple of times.


2010 335ix - speedtech 6466g2, cams, ported head, built bottom end, 7.5in hd ic, jb4, pi, fuel-it stg3, upgraded 6hp21+cooler, pr coils

Last edited by nyt; 11-04-2020 at 02:01 PM..
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Default 11-04-2020, 10:48 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by nyt
No, don't desensitize. Was asking if you had it that way in case you were having knock events which weren't being reacted to.

80ftlbs, torque again after heat cycling a couple of times.

the arp bolt last lime were torqued to 70ftlbs, and no retorque cause Athena states that since its an Oring gasket doesn't need to be.. could that be the issue



2008 335i N54 FFtech Top Mount single turbo Precision 6266
JB4 G5 , VRSF 7" FMIC , VRSF CP + HKS BOV, Tial Wastegates
BMS METH KIT IN CONJUNCTION WITH MMP PI WITH 1055CC INJECTORS, PURE M1 METH,TMAP 3.5,
FUEL-IT STAGE2 BUCKETLESS LPFP, RB PCV. JB$ MHD BACKEND FLASH, xHP Stage2 v1.5
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Default 11-04-2020, 11:07 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by ferocious
the arp bolt last lime were torqued to 70ftlbs, and no retorque cause Athena states that since its an Oring gasket doesn't need to be.. could that be the issue
Doubt it. You could try doing 80ftlbs, but it may be worth checking torque after a couple heat cycles. Note, only tightening.

Also, you didn't reuse the gasket, right?


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Default 11-04-2020, 11:16 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by nyt
Doubt it. You could try doing 80ftlbs, but it may be worth checking torque after a couple heat cycles. Note, only tightening.

Also, you didn't reuse the gasket, right?
actually, while the shop was torqueing the head one of the four slimmer outer bolt thread on the block stripped, (the engine was still on the shop stand) they undid the bolts and sent the block for thread tapping then retightened the gasket...

no i have purchased another gasket.. the same.. :
Athena SCE Head Gasket 3.386" / 86.00 mm Bore 0.059" Thickness

and waiting for my appointment next week..


Im from Kuwait.. and im the first to build a N54 engine around these parts..

any help/recommendation is highly appreciated..

you are too kind, thanks alot for all your time



2008 335i N54 FFtech Top Mount single turbo Precision 6266
JB4 G5 , VRSF 7" FMIC , VRSF CP + HKS BOV, Tial Wastegates
BMS METH KIT IN CONJUNCTION WITH MMP PI WITH 1055CC INJECTORS, PURE M1 METH,TMAP 3.5,
FUEL-IT STAGE2 BUCKETLESS LPFP, RB PCV. JB$ MHD BACKEND FLASH, xHP Stage2 v1.5
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Default 11-04-2020, 11:32 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by ferocious
actually, while the shop was torqueing the head one of the four slimmer outer bolt thread on the block stripped, (the engine was still on the shop stand) they undid the bolts and sent the block for thread tapping then retightened the gasket...

no i have purchased another gasket.. the same.. :
Athena SCE Head Gasket 3.386" / 86.00 mm Bore 0.059" Thickness

and waiting for my appointment next week..


Im from Kuwait.. and im the first to build a N54 engine around these parts..

any help/recommendation is highly appreciated..

you are too kind, thanks alot for all your time
Reusing the gasket like that is likely the cause of the issue. Once it's torqued down, you cannot reuse it.


2010 335ix - speedtech 6466g2, cams, ported head, built bottom end, 7.5in hd ic, jb4, pi, fuel-it stg3, upgraded 6hp21+cooler, pr coils
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Default 11-05-2020, 02:57 AM

ok then,

this time we will inspect the head thoroughly and block surface and the gasket itself,
look for any uneven parts or cracks, if all is well i will reinstall the new gasket and torque to 80ftlbs as per your recommendation.. i have came to understand that i don't need to add any silicone or sealing agent around anywhere right.. just direct install and tighten? im not sure about this part actually



2008 335i N54 FFtech Top Mount single turbo Precision 6266
JB4 G5 , VRSF 7" FMIC , VRSF CP + HKS BOV, Tial Wastegates
BMS METH KIT IN CONJUNCTION WITH MMP PI WITH 1055CC INJECTORS, PURE M1 METH,TMAP 3.5,
FUEL-IT STAGE2 BUCKETLESS LPFP, RB PCV. JB$ MHD BACKEND FLASH, xHP Stage2 v1.5
more to come...
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Default 11-05-2020, 02:04 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by ferocious
ok then,

this time we will inspect the head thoroughly and block surface and the gasket itself,
look for any uneven parts or cracks, if all is well i will reinstall the new gasket and torque to 80ftlbs as per your recommendation.. i have came to understand that i don't need to add any silicone or sealing agent around anywhere right.. just direct install and tighten? im not sure about this part actually
Correct, just the gasket. Make sure a fresh gasket is used and that the head surface is machined flat and the block planed well.


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