JB4tech.com - International Turbo Tuning Discussion
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BettyWhite6six6 BettyWhite6six6 is offline
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Default Wideband o2??? - 01-23-2020, 09:24 PM

I'm about finished with my build and started looking to get a tune. Shooting for 650whp... fingers crossed! The tuner I've been in contact with wants me to ditch the jb4 in favor of a boost controller and an aftermarket wideband o2 sensor. Says the jb4 is not needed these days as there are better options. I saw that the factory sensors are wideband....? I do like doing it this way actually. I was impressed with small things jb4 gave me control over though. It will be missed lol or not!

Questions:
Where to place it... mid pipe after p d's?
I have water meth.... no jb4 will leave me need a way to control this

Also, he recommended the aem uego wideband. It will play nice with the gofastbits boost controller. Do I need the entire kit with gauge and all? Or just any uego style wideband o2? Believe the controller has boost or afr readouts.


'08 e92 white/coral red
Aka ketchup and mayo

VRSF cp/Tial wg, VRSF d p ' s, mhd flashed
Vrsf 7" stepped intercooler, PR coilpacks
Spoolperformance stage 3 lpfp dual 450 fuel pumps
Spoolperformance x4 helix overdrive hpfp (beta testing)
ProMeth water/meth port injection w/7th injector in cp
MMP stage 3 v2 td04's
MMP silicone outlet relocation wrapped in gold for her pleasure
MMP aluminum inlets/cones
Radium oil catch can, N20 3.5 bar map sensor
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nyt nyt is offline
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Default 01-23-2020, 10:27 PM

Keep the jb4, ditch the tuner. The car already has 4 wideband o2 sensors (2x lsu 4.2 and 2x 4.9s).


2010 335ix - speedtech, 6466g2, cams, ported head, built bottom end, 7.5in hd ic, jb4, pi, dual 535s w/ external fpr and return, upgraded 6hp21+cooler, pr coils
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THE BEAST THE BEAST is offline
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Default 01-23-2020, 11:48 PM

What NYT said.
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BettyWhite6six6 BettyWhite6six6 is offline
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Default 01-24-2020, 06:34 AM

I'm guessing hes after a better view of the egt's/afr's??

Dont think I'll be ditching ken at ***** though. I've heard a bunch of good things about him and his company! Plenty of experience there! Even Rodney from pro meth recommends him. And hes local to Portland,Or!!

Thanks for the confirmation nyt! I was sure I had saw that somewhere. I'm interested to know if I can just use the factory o2 then for the boost controller??


'08 e92 white/coral red
Aka ketchup and mayo

VRSF cp/Tial wg, VRSF d p ' s, mhd flashed
Vrsf 7" stepped intercooler, PR coilpacks
Spoolperformance stage 3 lpfp dual 450 fuel pumps
Spoolperformance x4 helix overdrive hpfp (beta testing)
ProMeth water/meth port injection w/7th injector in cp
MMP stage 3 v2 td04's
MMP silicone outlet relocation wrapped in gold for her pleasure
MMP aluminum inlets/cones
Radium oil catch can, N20 3.5 bar map sensor
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codesx codesx is offline
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Default 01-24-2020, 10:44 AM

Ken's simply looking for hardware/setup he's most familiar with / has discounts for, thus his requests for you to migrate. If no JB4, hopefully they can customize the DME well. You'll need more than an external boost controller.

A direct tune on the DME technically yields faster/smoother response. Not certain if that's their intent.
I still believe it's much more about the tuner and platform knowledge than piggy-back vs DME.
One is certainly faster to update than the other.

Given he is asking you to install wide-band O2, he should be telling you exactly what to buy and where to install. The fact that the car has them already should be brought up. Maybe their tune requires very specific parts (poorly supported/ cross-integrated).

You may have to direct your questions at Ken.
It's common to work directly with your tuner.

Thoughts on how you will verify your knock and timing personally? (a car's performance changes over time)
It's always a good idea to keep a close eye.

** EDIT ** For me, I really appreciate being able to keep a regular eye on all my DME variables. I like it running very clean, not just acceptably. I couldn't run blind, especially with 100% meth.

** EDIT ** 650 WHP is nice in any world though! Have to show us the dyno and (if available) logs afterwards.




2008 335i Convertible, E93, N54, A/T (200,000+ km)
Wheels: 322 | Tires: R.275/35r18, F.245/40r18
TUNE: JB4/Trebila | 24 PSI | 100% Meth via dual CM5 | 94 Octane
BMS: JB4, Map 6 | WMI | 5" FMIC | OCC | DCI | Cowel Filters
RB: Inlets | PCV Valve
VRSF: DiPis | CP
HKS BOV
xHP Stage 3
NGK-97506 @ .020

Maintenance:
2018 - A/T Replaced | Ign Coils | Walnut Blast
2019 - Index 12 Injectors | VCG | OFHG & O-rings | TStat
2020 - OPG | Battery | IBS | Water Pump | Plugs | Alternator
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Payam @ BMS Payam @ BMS is offline
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Default 01-24-2020, 10:46 AM

Keep the JB4 and use our files posted. That tuner obviously just wants you to buy stuff from them even though the JB4 is much superior than anything out on the market right now.


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AnilKram AnilKram is offline
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Default 01-26-2020, 05:55 AM

Check out Trebila on here, he tunes specifically JB4 cars with great results.


09 135I MT jb4 g5/MHD Trebila backend Frankenturbo F21 FBO, PI, stage 3 lpfp, full E85, Quaife LSD
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BettyWhite6six6 BettyWhite6six6 is offline
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Default 01-26-2020, 04:20 PM

Hes definitely is not trying to sell me anything as nothing he recommended was through him or even associated with him! just leading me down a different path than jb4. I've recently asked a few people I'd consider to be upper tier n54 tuner/builders including RKtunes, and all say the same "listen to your tuner" and "I stopped using jb4 years ago". Ken at ***** performanceis a very recommended tuner with n54's! This isn't a 500whp build. Hes tuned plenty of these cars, including his z4....... lol sounds like I'm defending him ���� welp I'll take the gamble and go non jb4!


'08 e92 white/coral red
Aka ketchup and mayo

VRSF cp/Tial wg, VRSF d p ' s, mhd flashed
Vrsf 7" stepped intercooler, PR coilpacks
Spoolperformance stage 3 lpfp dual 450 fuel pumps
Spoolperformance x4 helix overdrive hpfp (beta testing)
ProMeth water/meth port injection w/7th injector in cp
MMP stage 3 v2 td04's
MMP silicone outlet relocation wrapped in gold for her pleasure
MMP aluminum inlets/cones
Radium oil catch can, N20 3.5 bar map sensor
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BettyWhite6six6 BettyWhite6six6 is offline
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Default 01-26-2020, 04:24 PM

I also appreciate and respect the opinions and replies from those that did. That's the reason I come to this forum and community. Thanks!

I lurked here for some time before I even bought this car. 2 months from stock to fbo and more!


'08 e92 white/coral red
Aka ketchup and mayo

VRSF cp/Tial wg, VRSF d p ' s, mhd flashed
Vrsf 7" stepped intercooler, PR coilpacks
Spoolperformance stage 3 lpfp dual 450 fuel pumps
Spoolperformance x4 helix overdrive hpfp (beta testing)
ProMeth water/meth port injection w/7th injector in cp
MMP stage 3 v2 td04's
MMP silicone outlet relocation wrapped in gold for her pleasure
MMP aluminum inlets/cones
Radium oil catch can, N20 3.5 bar map sensor
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codesx codesx is offline
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Default 01-26-2020, 06:02 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by BettyWhite6six6
Hes definitely is not trying to sell me anything as nothing he recommended was through him or even associated with him! just leading me down a different path than jb4. I've recently asked a few people I'd consider to be upper tier n54 tuner/builders including RKtunes, and all say the same "listen to your tuner" and "I stopped using jb4 years ago". Ken at ***** performanceis a very recommended tuner with n54's! This isn't a 500whp build. Hes tuned plenty of these cars, including his z4....... lol sounds like I'm defending him ���� welp I'll take the gamble and go non jb4!

Diversity is good. Drives all options forward.

Likely all vendors support well north of 500, with 700 being higher unless you start modding harder.

For me, it's visibility into tune details and results. As long as you can personally review all logs and you're comfortable, go with what's calling your name.

Community and support is also a factor.
I've come to appreciate both here.
I'm sure similar can be found elsewhere, but I've found a lot of forums lacking in maturity or presence.

Funny. I sound like I'm defending as well.
Diversity rocks!

Will be fun to see your results!




2008 335i Convertible, E93, N54, A/T (200,000+ km)
Wheels: 322 | Tires: R.275/35r18, F.245/40r18
TUNE: JB4/Trebila | 24 PSI | 100% Meth via dual CM5 | 94 Octane
BMS: JB4, Map 6 | WMI | 5" FMIC | OCC | DCI | Cowel Filters
RB: Inlets | PCV Valve
VRSF: DiPis | CP
HKS BOV
xHP Stage 3
NGK-97506 @ .020

Maintenance:
2018 - A/T Replaced | Ign Coils | Walnut Blast
2019 - Index 12 Injectors | VCG | OFHG & O-rings | TStat
2020 - OPG | Battery | IBS | Water Pump | Plugs | Alternator
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BettyWhite6six6 BettyWhite6six6 is offline
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Default 01-26-2020, 06:28 PM

Fingers crossed, hope it's a good one!


'08 e92 white/coral red
Aka ketchup and mayo

VRSF cp/Tial wg, VRSF d p ' s, mhd flashed
Vrsf 7" stepped intercooler, PR coilpacks
Spoolperformance stage 3 lpfp dual 450 fuel pumps
Spoolperformance x4 helix overdrive hpfp (beta testing)
ProMeth water/meth port injection w/7th injector in cp
MMP stage 3 v2 td04's
MMP silicone outlet relocation wrapped in gold for her pleasure
MMP aluminum inlets/cones
Radium oil catch can, N20 3.5 bar map sensor
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BettyWhite6six6 BettyWhite6six6 is offline
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Default 01-26-2020, 07:15 PM

So moving forward....

Placement of said o2??...... exhaust is out as I just installed smfw/xclutch from xfactory. Real dont want to pull **'s again lol pinta!! But if I must I must. Guessing welding a bung just below the first o2 would be best?? What are the cons of placing it just after the **'s??


'08 e92 white/coral red
Aka ketchup and mayo

VRSF cp/Tial wg, VRSF d p ' s, mhd flashed
Vrsf 7" stepped intercooler, PR coilpacks
Spoolperformance stage 3 lpfp dual 450 fuel pumps
Spoolperformance x4 helix overdrive hpfp (beta testing)
ProMeth water/meth port injection w/7th injector in cp
MMP stage 3 v2 td04's
MMP silicone outlet relocation wrapped in gold for her pleasure
MMP aluminum inlets/cones
Radium oil catch can, N20 3.5 bar map sensor
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CastleBravo CastleBravo is offline
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Default 01-29-2020, 05:01 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by nyt
Keep the jb4, ditch the tuner. The car already has 4 wideband o2 sensors (2x lsu 4.2 and 2x 4.9s).
Second this. I'm not an N54 expert but I have been working on EFI cars for 20 years. Your "tuners" sounds like he has experience with much simpler mid 80s or early 90s JDM motors and other early EFI systems GM/Ford etc.
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Default 01-30-2020, 10:33 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by BettyWhite6six6
So moving forward....

Placement of said o2??...... exhaust is out as I just installed smfw/xclutch from xfactory. Real dont want to pull **'s again lol pinta!! But if I must I must. Guessing welding a bung just below the first o2 would be best?? What are the cons of placing it just after the **'s??

Whatever your tuner suggests. They'll have their preference, follow it.




2008 335i Convertible, E93, N54, A/T (200,000+ km)
Wheels: 322 | Tires: R.275/35r18, F.245/40r18
TUNE: JB4/Trebila | 24 PSI | 100% Meth via dual CM5 | 94 Octane
BMS: JB4, Map 6 | WMI | 5" FMIC | OCC | DCI | Cowel Filters
RB: Inlets | PCV Valve
VRSF: DiPis | CP
HKS BOV
xHP Stage 3
NGK-97506 @ .020

Maintenance:
2018 - A/T Replaced | Ign Coils | Walnut Blast
2019 - Index 12 Injectors | VCG | OFHG & O-rings | TStat
2020 - OPG | Battery | IBS | Water Pump | Plugs | Alternator
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v8bait v8bait is offline
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Car: E92 335i 6MT
Default 01-30-2020, 08:58 PM

He probably wants you to run an external wideband for the external boost controller. They have safeties but require o2 input for them. In my experience they're finicky, the geforce controller is also pretty finicky. If you are going flash only with external controls you can really dial things in beautifully, but I'd personally steer you away from the typical geforce or turbosmart with aic as there's solutions for not much more that are far superior and combined. As the jb4 works as a piggyback it doesn't need external devices.

Good luck op.

Last edited by v8bait; 01-30-2020 at 09:24 PM..
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WoahAngelo WoahAngelo is offline
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Default 01-31-2020, 09:27 AM

Interesting that your tuner's telling you to ditch the JB4 so you can put on a wideband and an external boost controller with AFR protection features. Which the JB4 already has.

He can tune the DME and just have the JB4 for gauges/boost control via Menu 4/4.

Regardless, general rule of thumb is 3 feet from exhaust ports in turbocharged applications for pre *** sensors and another foot from the *** for the post *** sensors. Obviously packaging issues arise in our cars so you're probably not going to be able to run that much distance between the sensors and the exhaust port but the more, the better. Placing the pre *** sensors too close to the exhaust ports will shorten sensor life and actually affect accuracy.

Best of luck!
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drdiabetes drdiabetes is offline
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Default 01-31-2020, 10:14 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by BettyWhite6six6
So moving forward....

Placement of said o2??...... exhaust is out as I just installed smfw/xclutch from xfactory. Real dont want to pull **'s again lol pinta!! But if I must I must. Guessing welding a bung just below the first o2 would be best?? What are the cons of placing it just after the **'s??



Hello I have a st 6466 doc race. I am having too many issues with the lamda sensors and I have done a lot of reserch since 8 month at least.

Oem car has 4 sensors. All of them post turbos .. 2 precat and 2 post ***.
One precat is for bank1 and another one is for bank2.
If you go single turbo.. the precat sensor will go in the manifold ( pre turbo). Be carefull with your manifold desing as some designs predispose to fry sensors more often than others. Also notice that pre turbo atmosphere is much more hight temp and high pressure so oem sensor tend to die. You can look at the different manifold desings and copy the safer one. I think motiv is pretty good. Don't recommend doc race. I fried 5 sondas in 1700 miles..and don't have any response from they.
Also we are trying to figure out what is happening with my car as it fries sensor much more often than others included doc race users.
In that case you can use NTK, ADV or just oem bocsh sensors.
I recommend innovate heat sink extender ( hbx1) in any case.
If you want to buy a wideband with the afr ratio meter ... just to say, innovate meters came with the bosch 0258017025 that are the same as n54 oem but with a shorter wire.
As I know , you can't put just 1 wideband preturbo cause the ecu needs to read 2 banks.

Unless you put a programable ecu like syvecks and you can set to read just 1 afr.

If you will upgrade twins, I think the config is the same as oem.

You will not have any issues with post *** sensors.


335i AT 2008
DOC RACE 6466 SINGLE TURBO
JB4 G5ISO + MHD TUNING
FUEL IT PI kit BMS controlled
FUEL IT STAGE 4 LPFP
XHP flash stage 3
VRSF RACE EXHAUST
VRSF 7.5 FMIC
NGK SPARKS TWO STEPS COLDER

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BettyWhite6six6 BettyWhite6six6 is offline
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Default 02-03-2020, 06:38 AM

Sooooo..... all has been cleared up. There was a bit of miss communication with the tuner. He had thought I was going single turbo, hence the setup he recommended. I only stated mmp s3 v2..... I can understand the confusion as a large part of upgraded n54's are going that route.

Things are being returned and he even offered to purchase what doesn't get accepted for return. Nothing had been installed yet. Superbowl kept me from cutting up my center vent to mount the ebc lol!

In all, no real harm done! As long as this gets finished, I really cant be mad.

Thanks for those positive replies! Great community here!


'08 e92 white/coral red
Aka ketchup and mayo

VRSF cp/Tial wg, VRSF d p ' s, mhd flashed
Vrsf 7" stepped intercooler, PR coilpacks
Spoolperformance stage 3 lpfp dual 450 fuel pumps
Spoolperformance x4 helix overdrive hpfp (beta testing)
ProMeth water/meth port injection w/7th injector in cp
MMP stage 3 v2 td04's
MMP silicone outlet relocation wrapped in gold for her pleasure
MMP aluminum inlets/cones
Radium oil catch can, N20 3.5 bar map sensor
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WoahAngelo WoahAngelo is offline
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Default 02-03-2020, 04:02 PM

Nice. I think you’re going to like the MMPs!
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BettyWhite6six6 BettyWhite6six6 is offline
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Default 02-04-2020, 09:36 AM

Damn I hope so...... hes not sure 650whp will be achieved. But speaks highly of the s3v2 mmp twins. Not so much on the 1k's.

I've seen plenty of the same turbos pushing 700 with less of a build than I do?? I'm an optimistic person. We will see what he can get this to safely and go from there!


'08 e92 white/coral red
Aka ketchup and mayo

VRSF cp/Tial wg, VRSF d p ' s, mhd flashed
Vrsf 7" stepped intercooler, PR coilpacks
Spoolperformance stage 3 lpfp dual 450 fuel pumps
Spoolperformance x4 helix overdrive hpfp (beta testing)
ProMeth water/meth port injection w/7th injector in cp
MMP stage 3 v2 td04's
MMP silicone outlet relocation wrapped in gold for her pleasure
MMP aluminum inlets/cones
Radium oil catch can, N20 3.5 bar map sensor
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BettyWhite6six6 BettyWhite6six6 is offline
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Default 02-04-2020, 10:41 AM

Anyone have experience with the 1k's? Reviews I've read were positive. I talked with Mauricio (mmp) about my goals before purchasing and he steered me away from the 1k. G3V2 would be more than adequate for 650


'08 e92 white/coral red
Aka ketchup and mayo

VRSF cp/Tial wg, VRSF d p ' s, mhd flashed
Vrsf 7" stepped intercooler, PR coilpacks
Spoolperformance stage 3 lpfp dual 450 fuel pumps
Spoolperformance x4 helix overdrive hpfp (beta testing)
ProMeth water/meth port injection w/7th injector in cp
MMP stage 3 v2 td04's
MMP silicone outlet relocation wrapped in gold for her pleasure
MMP aluminum inlets/cones
Radium oil catch can, N20 3.5 bar map sensor
Reply With Quote
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WoahAngelo WoahAngelo is offline
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Default 02-04-2020, 04:21 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by BettyWhite6six6
Anyone have experience with the 1k's? Reviews I've read were positive. I talked with Mauricio (mmp) about my goals before purchasing and he steered me away from the 1k. G3V2 would be more than adequate for 650
Have both.

1Ks are laggier than the S3s but not by much. Depending on how aggressive your tune is, full boost on the 1Ks should be around 3500, where as full boost on the S3s should be around 2900ish. The antilag on both cars makes the "lag" a moot point, I can spool both at 2500.

The 1Ks are for people who are legitimately shooting for close to the 1000whp mark. Both of these turbos at the regular 18 PSI target have a ton left in them, as indicated by low WGDC (~40 on S3s and ~30 on 1Ks). If you're not shooting for anywhere near the 1000whp mark, you might as well take advantage of the earlier spool of the S3s.
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BettyWhite6six6 BettyWhite6six6 is offline
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Default 02-04-2020, 05:44 PM

Very nice info WoahAngelo, thanks! Sounds like what Mauricio told me in our phone call. Not sure what my tuner has against them lol! I'll be shooting for more whp later down the road. Have an extra short block to build for the increase in power first. Sleaved, pistons and some head work.


'08 e92 white/coral red
Aka ketchup and mayo

VRSF cp/Tial wg, VRSF d p ' s, mhd flashed
Vrsf 7" stepped intercooler, PR coilpacks
Spoolperformance stage 3 lpfp dual 450 fuel pumps
Spoolperformance x4 helix overdrive hpfp (beta testing)
ProMeth water/meth port injection w/7th injector in cp
MMP stage 3 v2 td04's
MMP silicone outlet relocation wrapped in gold for her pleasure
MMP aluminum inlets/cones
Radium oil catch can, N20 3.5 bar map sensor
Reply With Quote
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