N54Tech.com - International Turbo Racing Discussion
(#151)
Old
keyap keyap is offline
Demigod
 
Posts: 1,646
Join Date: Jun 2012
Car: N55 135i
Default 07-04-2018, 10:40 AM

So, was contemplating having a go at fitting the flywheel myself but, have just had some quotes and am now thinking maybe not.

The shop that fitted my PS2, who I completely trust and have a great reputation, are at £360 (would need car for 1 day) and another I've had recommended are at £250 if I leave the car with them for a week (they would squeeze it in between other jobs) or £450 for 1 day.

Both are happy to let me provide the flywheel (new or second hand) or they would supply themselves at an additional cost of £1120.

I was thinking more like £500+ for the labour so am temped. What do people think?


UK 2011 - E82- 135i - N55 - DCT

JB4 | BMS OCC | N20 TMap | Fuel-It! PI | AIC6 PI Controller | Fuel-It! Fuel Lines | Fuel-It! Stage 2 LPFP | Continental In-line E Sensor | ER Charge Pipe | Pure Stage 2 Turbo | Pure High Flow Inlet | GFB DV+ | Richter C'less D/Pipe | MFactory Pro Helical LSD (75% Bias Ratio) | eDiff Disabled Via Coding | MFactory Solid Diff Bushes | Diff Lockdown Bracket | Custom 98G0B BEF | NGK 5992s (0.020")


DD Map 7 at 20psi. Map 6 at 25psi for 'kill mode'

Last edited by keyap; 07-04-2018 at 01:43 PM..
Reply With Quote
(#152)
Old
houtan houtan is offline
Junior Member
 
Posts: 412
Join Date: Sep 2014
Car: 135i
Default 07-05-2018, 06:50 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by keyap
So, was contemplating having a go at fitting the flywheel myself but, have just had some quotes and am now thinking maybe not.

The shop that fitted my PS2, who I completely trust and have a great reputation, are at £360 (would need car for 1 day) and another I've had recommended are at £250 if I leave the car with them for a week (they would squeeze it in between other jobs) or £450 for 1 day.

Both are happy to let me provide the flywheel (new or second hand) or they would supply themselves at an additional cost of £1120.

I was thinking more like £500+ for the labour so am temped. What do people think?
There are many reasons why I work on my car. I trust myself more, feels good to say I did the work, and it saves me money, are some of the reasons.

Having said that, if there was someone I trusted that could do the job for 360 and get my car back to me in a day or two, I would definitely pay them to install the flywheel.
Reply With Quote
(#153)
Old
Payam @ BMS's Avatar
Payam @ BMS Payam @ BMS is offline
Super Moderator
 
Posts: 3,864
Join Date: Oct 2013
Car: e90 335i
Default 07-05-2018, 08:53 AM

First option at 360 and 1 day.


Burger Motorsports
Home of the Worlds fastest N20s, N54s, N55s, S55s, N63s, and S63s!

It is the sole responsibility of the purchaser and installer of any BMS part to employ the correct installation techniques required to ensure the proper operation of BMS parts, and BMS disclaims any and all liability for any part failure due to improper installation or use. It is the sole responsibility of the customer to verify that the use of their vehicle and items purchased comply with federal, state and local regulations. BMS claims no legal federal, state or local certification concerning pollution controlled motor vehicles or mandated emissions requirements. BMS products labeled for use only in competition racing vehicles may only be used on competition racing vehicles operated exclusively on a closed course in conjunction with a sanctioned racing event, in accordance with all federal and state laws, and may never be operated on public roads/highways. Please click here for more information on legal requirements related to use of BMS parts.
Reply With Quote
(#154)
Old
keyap keyap is offline
Demigod
 
Posts: 1,646
Join Date: Jun 2012
Car: N55 135i
Default 07-06-2018, 01:35 AM

Thanks both Have pretty much decided to go with the guys who put in my PS2 (1st option at 360).

However, the guys at 250/450 have thrown in something interesting. Now I've spoken with them more and they fully understand what I'm looking to achieve, they've said it may be worth looking into whether some balancing checks are needed - flywheel (irrespective of whether it's new or second hand) plus other bits which I didn't really follow?

According to them the OEM tolerances may be too high or there may be something else at play with other parts which would only manifest itself at higher power levels and they would prefer to check and address if needed.

They're comfortable that without any work the M4 version will be better than OEM but still feel the above is worth it.

Does that sound right or are they talking ****?

I must confess, I'm well out of my comfort zone here and have pretty much zero knowledge of what they're talking about, but I do remember seeing a post by one of the single turbo E N55 guys who has the M4 flywheel where minimal false knock is still evident so am wondering if there's something in this?

I've not spoke further yet with the guys at 360 as I was hoping to get some insight here before proceeding.

Thanks


UK 2011 - E82- 135i - N55 - DCT

JB4 | BMS OCC | N20 TMap | Fuel-It! PI | AIC6 PI Controller | Fuel-It! Fuel Lines | Fuel-It! Stage 2 LPFP | Continental In-line E Sensor | ER Charge Pipe | Pure Stage 2 Turbo | Pure High Flow Inlet | GFB DV+ | Richter C'less D/Pipe | MFactory Pro Helical LSD (75% Bias Ratio) | eDiff Disabled Via Coding | MFactory Solid Diff Bushes | Diff Lockdown Bracket | Custom 98G0B BEF | NGK 5992s (0.020")


DD Map 7 at 20psi. Map 6 at 25psi for 'kill mode'

Last edited by keyap; 07-06-2018 at 02:13 PM..
Reply With Quote
(#155)
Old
houtan houtan is offline
Junior Member
 
Posts: 412
Join Date: Sep 2014
Car: 135i
Default 07-07-2018, 09:16 AM

I have heard of bolts with different weights, but I think that was on an m3 diff. I have never heard anyone say they had to do anything special when installing the M4 flywheel. Are they referring to some sort of balancing? Maybe look into the installation steps for an M4 flywheel and see if they mention anything special. I can try to look in my version of rheingold to see if the m3/4 flywheel install is in there.
Reply With Quote
(#156)
Old
keyap keyap is offline
Demigod
 
Posts: 1,646
Join Date: Jun 2012
Car: N55 135i
Default 07-07-2018, 10:05 AM

Thanks Don't think any balancing is needed for the standard install, however, once I mentioned 25psi they started talking about the above.

From what I can gather, they are saying BMW flywheels come balanced to within a certain pre specified tolerance for OEM power levels. They are then suggesting that if the power is increased this tolerance could, once you reach a certain point, lead to vibration/false knock.

What they are saying is that they would check and, if needed, re-balance using a lower tolerance. In other words, the flywheel would be balanced better.


UK 2011 - E82- 135i - N55 - DCT

JB4 | BMS OCC | N20 TMap | Fuel-It! PI | AIC6 PI Controller | Fuel-It! Fuel Lines | Fuel-It! Stage 2 LPFP | Continental In-line E Sensor | ER Charge Pipe | Pure Stage 2 Turbo | Pure High Flow Inlet | GFB DV+ | Richter C'less D/Pipe | MFactory Pro Helical LSD (75% Bias Ratio) | eDiff Disabled Via Coding | MFactory Solid Diff Bushes | Diff Lockdown Bracket | Custom 98G0B BEF | NGK 5992s (0.020")


DD Map 7 at 20psi. Map 6 at 25psi for 'kill mode'

Last edited by keyap; 07-07-2018 at 11:46 AM..
Reply With Quote
(#157)
Old
houtan houtan is offline
Junior Member
 
Posts: 412
Join Date: Sep 2014
Car: 135i
Default 07-09-2018, 07:13 AM

interesting. I have no idea whether that is true or possible. Looking forward to what route you choose and if you go the extra balancing route, if the flywheel actually needs extra balancing.
Reply With Quote
(#158)
Old
Newguy123's Avatar
Newguy123 Newguy123 is offline
Demigod
 
Posts: 1,774
Join Date: May 2014
Car: 12' 135i
Default 07-09-2018, 07:45 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by keyap
Thanks Don't think any balancing is needed for the standard install, however, once I mentioned 25psi they started talking about the above.

From what I can gather, they are saying BMW flywheels come balanced to within a certain pre specified tolerance for OEM power levels. They are then suggesting that if the power is increased this tolerance could, once you reach a certain point, lead to vibration/false knock.

What they are saying is that they would check and, if needed, re-balance using a lower tolerance. In other words, the flywheel would be balanced better.
I don’t think it’s necessary, think about all of the 650-750whp s55 M3’s and M4’s rolling around on the stock factory balanced s55 DCT flywheel. ... btw my car is still running awesome 21-22psi with 0 issues on the daily.


12' DCT 135i
#PURETURBOS
#FUELIT
Reply With Quote
(#159)
Old
keyap keyap is offline
Demigod
 
Posts: 1,646
Join Date: Jun 2012
Car: N55 135i
Default 07-10-2018, 01:14 AM

Thanks both . Am sort of torn on this one - can't see the balancing having any negatives but equally, as Newguy pointed out, without this, the new flywheel should be fine at the levels being targeted.

Only little niggle is I'm sure I read something about one of the single guys still getting false knock - it's typical though, I now can't find the post so am not 100% sure if it's relevant

Having spoken again to the 250/450 guys I'm comfortable money is not the driver as they only want £35 more. On the other hand, my preferred installers (the guys at 360), who I think have more experience and years of working with BMWs (both at dealerships and independent, and who also run a BMW race team) feel it's not needed.

I think it's going to be the 360 guys with no balancing

@ Newguy - good to know the car is still running great I'm fine to around 20/21psi but after that, jeez, it takes some work to keep the misfires under control

@ Newguy - Don't want to de-rail this thread but, are you running PI or meth, and if PI, what controller?


UK 2011 - E82- 135i - N55 - DCT

JB4 | BMS OCC | N20 TMap | Fuel-It! PI | AIC6 PI Controller | Fuel-It! Fuel Lines | Fuel-It! Stage 2 LPFP | Continental In-line E Sensor | ER Charge Pipe | Pure Stage 2 Turbo | Pure High Flow Inlet | GFB DV+ | Richter C'less D/Pipe | MFactory Pro Helical LSD (75% Bias Ratio) | eDiff Disabled Via Coding | MFactory Solid Diff Bushes | Diff Lockdown Bracket | Custom 98G0B BEF | NGK 5992s (0.020")


DD Map 7 at 20psi. Map 6 at 25psi for 'kill mode'

Last edited by keyap; 07-10-2018 at 01:22 AM..
Reply With Quote
(#160)
Old
houtan houtan is offline
Junior Member
 
Posts: 412
Join Date: Sep 2014
Car: 135i
Default 07-10-2018, 07:20 AM

just letting you know he is running charge pipe meth, single nozzle, DO10, 100% meth, AEM controller.

I don't know how you are running 21 psi on the stock flywheel and not getting misfires. High RPM stabs, and sometimes just clean 3rd gear logs result in a 4, 5 or 6 misfire. The highest I can boost and have a 100% normal driving car in all types of scenarios is 18.5ish psi.

can the guys at 360 check the balance of the flywheel? maybe that would be the best of both worlds and give you peace of mind.

Last edited by houtan; 07-10-2018 at 07:36 AM..
Reply With Quote
(#161)
Old
Newguy123's Avatar
Newguy123 Newguy123 is offline
Demigod
 
Posts: 1,774
Join Date: May 2014
Car: 12' 135i
Default 07-10-2018, 07:34 AM

So currently I am running a bone stock fuel system with the exact set up Houtan just mentioned. The car is an absolute animal on E30+meth 21-22 psi.... keep in mind this is at sea level I know power can vary greatly depending on elevation some boost pressure is kind of irrelevant. I also do have a fuel it port injection fuel rail That was plumbed into my methanol tank controlled by AIC6 controller. I had no issues with that set up but decided to simplify things and do some testing with single nozzle.



Quote:
Originally Posted by keyap
Thanks both . Am sort of torn on this one - can't see the balancing having any negatives but equally, as Newguy pointed out, without this, the new flywheel should be fine at the levels being targeted.

Only little niggle is I'm sure I read something about one of the single guys still getting false knock - it's typical though, I now can't find the post so am not 100% sure if it's relevant

Having spoken again to the 250/450 guys I'm comfortable money is not the driver as they only want £35 more. On the other hand, my preferred installers (the guys at 360), who I think have more experience and years of working with BMWs (both at dealerships and independent, and who also run a BMW race team) feel it's not needed.

I think it's going to be the 360 guys with no balancing

@ Newguy - good to know the car is still running great I'm fine to around 20/21psi but after that, jeez, it takes some work to keep the misfires under control

@ Newguy - Don't want to de-rail this thread but, are you running PI or meth, and if PI, what controller?


12' DCT 135i
#PURETURBOS
#FUELIT
Reply With Quote
(#162)
Old
keyap keyap is offline
Demigod
 
Posts: 1,646
Join Date: Jun 2012
Car: N55 135i
Default 07-10-2018, 07:36 AM

Quote:
I don't know how you are running 21 psi on the stock flywheel and not getting misfires
You need a custom BEF, for example, a fairly simple way is to drop the load to ~170, adjust fuelling to compensate and you should be good to go at 20/21, maybe 22 at a push. It does however vary car to car

Drop the load to around 150/155 and, on a good day, 24 to 25 can be possible. The DCT however really does not like this and a few other challenges also come into play which have to be addressed in the flash. This however is no good for a DD as even small things like a change in temp throws the car out, hence why I'm swopping out the flywheel.

Back in the COBB days, we 'played' around with a few flashes on Stoolz car when he was running meth without PI and was still on the OEM flywheel. With a bit of work, we got his E82 N55 DCT to 24/25 too without misfires. He however experienced similar challenges

Quote:
just letting you know he is running charge pipe meth, single nozzle, DO10, 100% meth, AEM controller
Quote:
So currently I am running a bone stock fuel system with the exact set up Houtan just mentioned
Quote:
I also do have a fuel it port injection fuel rail That was plumbed into my methanol tank controlled by AIC6 controller. I had no issues with that set up but decided to simplify things and do some testing with single nozzle.
Good to know, I'm toying with the idea of giving meth a try Vs my current fuel PI setup. Thank both


UK 2011 - E82- 135i - N55 - DCT

JB4 | BMS OCC | N20 TMap | Fuel-It! PI | AIC6 PI Controller | Fuel-It! Fuel Lines | Fuel-It! Stage 2 LPFP | Continental In-line E Sensor | ER Charge Pipe | Pure Stage 2 Turbo | Pure High Flow Inlet | GFB DV+ | Richter C'less D/Pipe | MFactory Pro Helical LSD (75% Bias Ratio) | eDiff Disabled Via Coding | MFactory Solid Diff Bushes | Diff Lockdown Bracket | Custom 98G0B BEF | NGK 5992s (0.020")


DD Map 7 at 20psi. Map 6 at 25psi for 'kill mode'
Reply With Quote
(#163)
Old
houtan houtan is offline
Junior Member
 
Posts: 412
Join Date: Sep 2014
Car: 135i
Default 07-10-2018, 07:46 AM

I see. I am flash only, commanded wgdc, so a load of 170 is not possible for me. The piggy back is probably allowing you to drop the load that low.

CP meth is probably the best mod I have done to my car. A little hesitant at first because I am running 100% meth and all of the opinions running a single nozzle. But I installed the kit myself, took my time, and have zero issues.

I recently tried 80%meth, 20%distilled water, but quickly went back to 100% meth because my car ran much better.
Reply With Quote
(#164)
Old
keyap keyap is offline
Demigod
 
Posts: 1,646
Join Date: Jun 2012
Car: N55 135i
Default 07-10-2018, 08:05 AM

Quote:
I see. I am flash only, commanded wgdc, so a load of 170 is not possible for me. The piggy back is probably allowing you to drop the load that low
Makes sense - with flash only, I don't think it's currently possible thanks to the relationship between some of the DME tables. I'd love to find a way to achieve the same without the need to rely on load but it just doesn't seem possible with what we currently have access to

Quote:
CP meth is probably the best mod I have done to my car. A little hesitant at first because I am running 100% meth and all of the opinions running a single nozzle. But I installed the kit myself, took my time, and have zero issues.

I recently tried 80%meth, 20%distilled water, but quickly went back to 100% meth because my car ran much better..
As I don't have E85 on pump, although I do have access to a cheap local alternative, running meth would be much easier, so good to know it's all working well. Thanks


UK 2011 - E82- 135i - N55 - DCT

JB4 | BMS OCC | N20 TMap | Fuel-It! PI | AIC6 PI Controller | Fuel-It! Fuel Lines | Fuel-It! Stage 2 LPFP | Continental In-line E Sensor | ER Charge Pipe | Pure Stage 2 Turbo | Pure High Flow Inlet | GFB DV+ | Richter C'less D/Pipe | MFactory Pro Helical LSD (75% Bias Ratio) | eDiff Disabled Via Coding | MFactory Solid Diff Bushes | Diff Lockdown Bracket | Custom 98G0B BEF | NGK 5992s (0.020")


DD Map 7 at 20psi. Map 6 at 25psi for 'kill mode'

Last edited by keyap; 07-10-2018 at 08:33 AM..
Reply With Quote
(#165)
Old
VegasJD's Avatar
VegasJD VegasJD is offline
Junior Member
 
Posts: 207
Join Date: Jan 2011
Car: 2012 bmw 135i
Default 07-12-2018, 12:38 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Newguy123
I donít think itís necessary, think about all of the 650-750whp s55 M3ís and M4ís rolling around on the stock factory balanced s55 DCT flywheel. ... btw my car is still running awesome 21-22psi with 0 issues on the daily.
Mine is the same I'm on the stock flywheel 21 psi, except today I wanted to play and changed to map 6 so i hit 24 psi no misfires,hiccups or nothing bad going on, it just pulled for days, for fuel I'm on e65 and meth single bung with 80% methanol spraying I think running nt05R tires so no slip made the pulls smooth


<-- Click for the build thread Full 1M bodywork,ONE EIGHTY HL,Carbon hood,trunk,side skirts,black lines,CKS coil overs, Sparta Evolution 2 piece rotors , PURE Stage 2 Turbo 24psi e65
Reply With Quote
(#166)
Old
Stoolz Stoolz is offline
Senior Member
 
Posts: 843
Join Date: Jan 2015
Car: 11 135i
Default 07-12-2018, 04:20 AM

Yeah i was 25psi daily for over a year stock fw E50 plus cm14 meth.
Keyap saved me from selling my car back in the misfirey Cobb days (bms bef never ever worked for me) and once MHD was released i was as good as gold as well. (Up until I installed PI and somehow picked up an unfixable shutdown $10k and still hunting it).


2011 135i Dct coupe Alpine white n blacked out.
VTT DBB,Pure Inlet, JB4,GFB DV+,MHD,Fuel-it Platinum PI with Cm 5 - 50:50 Meth, E85, N20 tmap, Fuel It S2 lpfp, KB Boost A Spark, BMS IC /CP / IT / OCC, SG Boost Pipe, Quaife LSD, Federal RS-RR,M4 Flywheel, SSP R spec clutches, Kw V3 & Pro rolled guards, AR CL **, Bmw PE. Custom mi**ipe kitties. 1000wrms custom audio.
Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump




vBulletin Skin developed by: vBStyles.com
Copyright © 2007 - 2018, N54tech.com