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Default Map 6 Discussion - 09-15-2017, 11:38 AM

Would like to open a dialog for Map 6 tuning... Use this thread to share experiences and observations...

Some of my observations (440 MPPSK):

I find Map 6 yields best drivability and performance over other maps - Why if adaptive is adaptive . Whether your on Map 1 or Map 6 isnt 3PSI 3PSI adaptive?

I also find if I run absolute settings adaption continually happens (i can see FF learning down - even though its irrelevant with out EWG wires) eventually losing some drivability (throttle closures) - again no EWG wires attached. I wonder if absolute targets really should have the EWG wires attached to ensure no overboosting.

Lastly I see that defining an aggressive target in the upper RPM range has an effect on lower RPM range drivability and performance - Why is that? My observation.

Comments and observations welcome..
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Default 09-15-2017, 01:39 PM

FF is only used on absolute maps. If Map6 is used in an additive mode (targets less than 10psi) then FF and duty bias do not apply.


Burger Motorsports
Home of the JB4 the worlds most popular turbocharged tuning system!

It is the sole responsibility of the purchaser and installer of any BMS part to employ the correct installation techniques required to ensure the proper operation of BMS parts, and BMS disclaims any and all liability for any part failure due to improper installation or use. It is the sole responsibility of the customer to verify that the use of their vehicle and items purchased comply with federal, state and local regulations. BMS claims no legal federal, state or local certification concerning pollution controlled motor vehicles or mandated emissions requirements. BMS products labeled for use only in competition racing vehicles may only be used on competition racing vehicles operated exclusively on a closed course in conjunction with a sanctioned racing event, in accordance with all federal and state laws, and may never be operated on public roads/highways. Please click here for more information on legal requirements related to use of BMS parts.
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Default 09-15-2017, 01:48 PM

My understanding is they (FF/Duty Bias settings) are not used unless EWG wires are installed - Correct?

However, I can feel the car changing as FF is changing, even though I do not have the EWG wires.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Terry @ BMS
FF is only used on absolute maps. If Map6 is used in an additive mode (targets less than 10psi) then FF and duty bias do not apply.
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Default 09-15-2017, 03:42 PM

Correct, also only apply with EWG connector. The settings govern WGDC the signal sent out the EWG connector. If you don't have an EWG connector then you're feeling something else.


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Home of the JB4 the worlds most popular turbocharged tuning system!

It is the sole responsibility of the purchaser and installer of any BMS part to employ the correct installation techniques required to ensure the proper operation of BMS parts, and BMS disclaims any and all liability for any part failure due to improper installation or use. It is the sole responsibility of the customer to verify that the use of their vehicle and items purchased comply with federal, state and local regulations. BMS claims no legal federal, state or local certification concerning pollution controlled motor vehicles or mandated emissions requirements. BMS products labeled for use only in competition racing vehicles may only be used on competition racing vehicles operated exclusively on a closed course in conjunction with a sanctioned racing event, in accordance with all federal and state laws, and may never be operated on public roads/highways. Please click here for more information on legal requirements related to use of BMS parts.
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Default 09-18-2017, 06:04 AM

Some more insight - I regularly play with the various PSI settings at the different RPMs.

I can see time and again, an overly aggressive boost definition (adaptive definition) in the upper RPM range for some reason has a negative effective across the entire RPM range.

Does this make sense?

If your wondering my settings

Map 6 (all other settings default), FOL 0 (Wires attached but not needed - trims never go above 35)

1500 - 4000 rpm - 3psi
4500- 6500 rpm - 2psi
7000 - 1psi
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Default 09-20-2017, 01:58 PM

My last log for anyone wanting to see what Map 6 with above settings ...
Attached Files
File Type: csv 2017-09-19 07_57_50.csv (5.7 KB, 249 views)
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335xiRT1 335xiRT1 is offline
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Default 09-23-2017, 09:28 AM

After seeing what there doing with the upgraded turbo I reinstalled my d0wn pipe and changed pid gain to 30 and it is helping tremendously with the way the motor is responding after shifting. ( I have a manual)


2017 340i JB4/ BB TBi/ intake
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Default 09-27-2017, 08:33 AM

So I added some octane booster to my 93 VSHELL (filled up)... Well timing worse but boost jumped! Same 2 psi target...

Something is afoot with some of our cars... Terry we need your insight here...
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File Type: csv 2017-09-27 08_02_00.csv (6.9 KB, 204 views)
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Default 09-27-2017, 04:26 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Terry @ BMS
FF is only used on absolute maps. If Map6 is used in an additive mode (targets less than 10psi) then FF and duty bias do not apply.
Terry - can you advise what duty bias settings should be used for map 6? Are they the same ones as defaults in your sticky?
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Default 09-27-2017, 05:00 PM

If using map6 you'd need to dial in WGDC as needed to get boost close to target, etc. The defaults are fine for a starting point.


Burger Motorsports
Home of the JB4 the worlds most popular turbocharged tuning system!

It is the sole responsibility of the purchaser and installer of any BMS part to employ the correct installation techniques required to ensure the proper operation of BMS parts, and BMS disclaims any and all liability for any part failure due to improper installation or use. It is the sole responsibility of the customer to verify that the use of their vehicle and items purchased comply with federal, state and local regulations. BMS claims no legal federal, state or local certification concerning pollution controlled motor vehicles or mandated emissions requirements. BMS products labeled for use only in competition racing vehicles may only be used on competition racing vehicles operated exclusively on a closed course in conjunction with a sanctioned racing event, in accordance with all federal and state laws, and may never be operated on public roads/highways. Please click here for more information on legal requirements related to use of BMS parts.
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blckz06 blckz06 is offline
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Default 09-27-2017, 07:02 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Terry @ BMS
If using map6 you'd need to dial in WGDC as needed to get boost close to target, etc. The defaults are fine for a starting point.
Got it, looks like im pretty much on target with WGDC zeroed out. Does attached look ok to you, any suggested tweaks?
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File Type: csv 2017-09-27 20_12_51map6e85.csv (6.8 KB, 190 views)
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Default 09-28-2017, 06:33 AM

Blckz... Curious why your running 0 accross the board on Duty Bias?

Has your FF learned down/up fully (i see its at 51)?
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Default 09-28-2017, 09:56 AM

0s for DB per Bullitt's suggestion. I initially set FF at 50... how long does it take it to 'learn' up or down?
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Default 09-28-2017, 11:25 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by blckz06
Got it, looks like im pretty much on target with WGDC zeroed out. Does attached look ok to you, any suggested tweaks?
That's about as dialed in as you're going to get, in my opinion. 4th and 5th gear probably look even better, regarding staying on target.


2018 Audi RS3 | APR Stage 1 E85 and 91 Flashes | JB4 for Logging

SOLD: 2017 F36 440i Gran Coupe | PS2 | MPPSK | Track Handling Package | JB4

SOLD: 2007 E90 335i | PS2's | JB4 | FBO | 160k+ miles on the car, 120k+ miles on the JB4

Log, log, then log some more...
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Default 09-28-2017, 11:28 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by risktaker76
So I added some octane booster to my 93 VSHELL (filled up)... Well timing worse but boost jumped! Same 2 psi target...

Something is afoot with some of our cars... Terry we need your insight here...
Yeah, I just don't like how the DME BT drops during a pull and slowly climbs back up. That's why I stick with an absolute target of 17.0 PSI. So much more consistent.


2018 Audi RS3 | APR Stage 1 E85 and 91 Flashes | JB4 for Logging

SOLD: 2017 F36 440i Gran Coupe | PS2 | MPPSK | Track Handling Package | JB4

SOLD: 2007 E90 335i | PS2's | JB4 | FBO | 160k+ miles on the car, 120k+ miles on the JB4

Log, log, then log some more...
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Default 09-28-2017, 11:30 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by blckz06
0s for DB per Bullitt's suggestion. I initially set FF at 50... how long does it take it to 'learn' up or down?
It never stops, but I don't see it move too much when other settings aren't changed. Maybe +/- 10 max. Doesn't seem to have much influence on the B58.


2018 Audi RS3 | APR Stage 1 E85 and 91 Flashes | JB4 for Logging

SOLD: 2017 F36 440i Gran Coupe | PS2 | MPPSK | Track Handling Package | JB4

SOLD: 2007 E90 335i | PS2's | JB4 | FBO | 160k+ miles on the car, 120k+ miles on the JB4

Log, log, then log some more...
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Default 09-29-2017, 05:36 AM

Ive been lazy and havent installed the EWG wires... Absolute targets dont run right without the cable... It runs fine for a bit. I can see the FF changing also... Even though I know it means nothing without the cables when it hits 0 the car is all over the place.. very inconsistent - one moment fine, another moment making some weird sounds coming from the turbo - I think I am hearing rattle actually, or maybe the blow by valve... not sure.. I have been told many times FF means nothing without the EWG cables... but the car is telling me otherwise. I also notice the pop is gone using absolute values... Car doesnt feel as responsive... but again, it could all be because I dont have the cables installed.

Maybe this weekend if I get around to it...

Another day another log...

Only change is instead of a flat additive I ramp down... 3psi up to 3k, 2psi up to 5k, 1psi beyond that - keep in mind it my car and/or the fuel in the NY area sucks. Again no other changes - same tank of fuel that has 93 vshell with octane booster...

Look at this - completely different from the last run - 1 day apart. Only changes are above...

Not liking this B58 platform honestly..


In another we are chatting about this - ambient temperature clearly has a large effect... Not operating temperature either...
I see the biggest effect when your first start the car.. even after driving a while everything remains perfect no matter how hard your pushing the car.. a few of us notice if the IAT temps are above 80 upon start, even when temps are not at full operating temperature the car is very inconsistent - especially timing. Shut your car off then turn it on, experience is also very different - maybe far worse if heat soak has set in - even if the temps drop back to normal during driving conditions.

Im almost thinking that the computer sets a timing strategy based on initial ambient temperature then aligns boost accordingly... Warm Temps it sets a low timing and for some reason raises boost (which makes no sense to me)... If its cool out I find the boost is lower yet timing increases significantly - car pulls much strong even though boost is lower... Now thats when I can apply additional JB4 boost - yes timing lowers but not much; but boost increases - all a multiplier effect...

As you can see in my most recent log, this actually supports this theory... at full operating temps IAT is very close to a warm day but the major difference is IAT upon startup...

Is this IAT? or some other temp measurement I dont know.. but some clues are apparent.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bullitt1841
Yeah, I just don't like how the DME BT drops during a pull and slowly climbs back up. That's why I stick with an absolute target of 17.0 PSI. So much more consistent.
Attached Files
File Type: csv 2017-09-29 07_55_22.csv (6.6 KB, 167 views)

Last edited by risktaker76; 09-29-2017 at 10:24 AM..
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Default 09-29-2017, 10:22 AM

Just give it time and be patient. You will be kicking yourself in a year if you sell the car and we're all trapping 125+


2018 Audi RS3 | APR Stage 1 E85 and 91 Flashes | JB4 for Logging

SOLD: 2017 F36 440i Gran Coupe | PS2 | MPPSK | Track Handling Package | JB4

SOLD: 2007 E90 335i | PS2's | JB4 | FBO | 160k+ miles on the car, 120k+ miles on the JB4

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335xiRT1 335xiRT1 is offline
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Default 09-29-2017, 10:52 AM

Absolute targets I feel work a lot better than additive
I'm running NY fuel 93 octane
No e85


2017 340i JB4/ BB TBi/ intake
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Default 09-29-2017, 11:07 AM

You running mppsk?

Post your most recent log
Quote:
Originally Posted by 335xiRT1
Absolute targets I feel work a lot better than additive
I'm running NY fuel 93 octane
No e85
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Default 09-29-2017, 12:31 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bullitt1841
Just give it time and be patient. You will be kicking yourself in a year if you sell the car and we're all trapping 125+
Ahhh if this happens I will get happy. I can't lie, I get frustrated with the platform too :X

125+ won't be possible on e85/jb4 only though right? I would assume we would need a turbo upgrade or meth.


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Default 09-29-2017, 01:05 PM

I guess it depends on the thresholds of the fuel pumps... but yeah i could see 125 on iminluv's setup once we are flashable.


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Default 09-30-2017, 07:28 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by 335xiRT1
Absolute targets I feel work a lot better than additive
I'm running NY fuel 93 octane
No e85
Are you running any e85? Your sig says e20. What psi are you running in map 6?
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Default 09-30-2017, 07:35 AM

Thanks foe chiming in on the log, Bullitt.

When running map 6, do you guys alter psi based on the type of driving you're doing? In other words, when ive got days of stop and go / painful commuting I just throw it on map 1 to potentially lessen the wear and tear on the engine. Otherwise, Im always in map 3.

Anyone else take the same approach? What's the absolute psi that would be equivalent to map 1?
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Default 09-30-2017, 09:49 AM

Maps 1 to 3 are additive based on what the computer feels that day.... some days for example my map 1 I peak at 15 psi o5er days I peak at 20 psi...

There isnít an absolute equivalent ... which is the primary issue...

I would say use absolute values that your car, abmbient tmeps andthe quality of gas dictates...

Even absolute values will yield different performance because timing is always changing...generally 17 psi for good quality 93. Mid range ramp down to 15... higer octane maybe 18 ramp down to 16... meth 20 ramp down to 18

No imperial evidence or science. To back this up though ... my opinion hibestky ..
Quote:
Originally Posted by blckz06
Thanks foe chiming in on the log, Bullitt.

When running map 6, do you guys alter psi based on the type of driving you're doing? In other words, when ive got days of stop and go / painful commuting I just throw it on map 1 to potentially lessen the wear and tear on the engine. Otherwise, Im always in map 3.

Anyone else take the same approach? What's the absolute psi that would be equivalent to map 1?
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